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All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union

 
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 25166254
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11/14/2012 07:12 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
Represent = to Re - Present something. To bring forth an image of the original, but not being the original.



So....

Republic = To Re - Public something. To bring forth an image or the original, but not being the original.

So....



A Republic is STILL not a Public. It is an impostor too.

So... Democracy is not the way.... it is a failed policy.

So... Republic is not the way.... it is a failed policy.


My friends... we are going to have to question EVERYTHING as if we were children.

The wordsmithing has been used against us for at least 3000 yrs.
 Quoting: Ambassador Grantor



In other words, we need a new contract for America guaranteeing that the old powers can't infiltrate and take over the new government. It is not us that wasted America, it's as you said, the current establishment.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 07:12 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
bind
why did i press p? oO
CtYankee

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11/14/2012 07:16 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
Be prepared to sign an oath of allegiance to "support and defend Barack Obama against all enemies, foreign and domestic".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24599086


whatever
CtYankee

"If at first you don't succeed, erase all evidence that you tried." -anonymous


-Spouting a fountain of nonsense since 1972-

Never met anyone important enough to lie to.....
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/14/2012 07:17 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
Unless these are petitions filed by state government itself instead of Joe six pack, they don't mean much. :shrug:
 Quoting: Generation Doom


These petitions are all a side show. Any REAL movement would have to begin at state level, these are all just petitions anyone in America can sign and I guarantee you everyone in the federal government is laughing at.

Now, I don't WANT them to succeed, but I'm just saying, the only way they could is if they start at places like the Texan nationalist party, not these.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9266723



They laugh because they know how powerless citizens are to do anything. We can't get an American in the White House, but we can be heard. If enough people are involved, then the states may take action. Numbers are power even in America. They ignored Occupy until they had to pay attention, then they ignored Occupy again. It's still going on today, but you don't see any reports in the papers or on the news.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27730671
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11/14/2012 07:17 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
don't sign these things.

this is data mining for the NDAA.

you could get tried with treason eventually.

not worth it.

times to be trickseys hobbit!

be vewwwy vewwwy quiet wabbits!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27129259


ouncsam

Just shut up, bend over, and take it, rabbits!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/14/2012 07:19 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
Be prepared to sign an oath of allegiance to "support and defend Barack Obama against all enemies, foreign and domestic".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24599086



I don't know about that, but as long as Obama is in the White House America is dead.
Carshy McCarsh

User ID: 27734006
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11/14/2012 07:20 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
I never in all of my 50 plus years thought I'd want to leave America. In fact, I once swore that I'd never leave America even to visit a foreign nation. If I wanted Chinese, there's China towns in several states. Cincinnati is a good place for Vietnamese. We have people from every country and their signatures are all over America. Some of them are on petitions for their states to leave America. Times come and times change and America is dead to me. It's breathed its last. It's eyes have dimmed. And patriots, such as myself, are dying inside by the millions.

I signed the petition for my State. I don't believe the states should drown just because the federal government is sinking. That's what lifeboats are for, to escape death. All the states have done good individually, but Washington has failed the nation. Politics are so corrupt that we can't even get an American into the White House. I can usually come up with a solution to most problems, but it appears that America's only hope is for the states to withdraw from the false federal government, then reform under a new contract that will not allow our government to be stolen by the rich, the corporations, the secret societies, or the serpent breed.

I'd like to offer hope for America, but I see none. Maybe one of you can see a meaningful solution to our problems, but if you can't see a meaningful solution to our nations problems, then you should sign your state's petition to withdraw from a government that has never really been ours.

Peace.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25166254



There's supposedly a petition going around now that wants to consider those that signed these petitions in a nutshell enemies of the state. People on GLP for the most part knows the government world wide is corrupt. You're basically bring attention to yourself for when SHTF, particularly when they start rounding up people for the FEMA camps.
 Quoting: amber 7020607


Sometimes, you just have to realize you're going to lose no matter what, and not give a damn. Just stick your finger right in your opponent's eye anyway.

Go to about 5:30 -

Tell me what this tastes like...
Renegade (Me too)

User ID: 24639180
United States
11/14/2012 07:20 PM

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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
I never in all of my 50 plus years thought I'd want to leave America. In fact, I once swore that I'd never leave America even to visit a foreign nation. If I wanted Chinese, there's China towns in several states. Cincinnati is a good place for Vietnamese. We have people from every country and their signatures are all over America. Some of them are on petitions for their states to leave America. Times come and times change and America is dead to me. It's breathed its last. It's eyes have dimmed. And patriots, such as myself, are dying inside by the millions.

I signed the petition for my State. I don't believe the states should drown just because the federal government is sinking. That's what lifeboats are for, to escape death. All the states have done good individually, but Washington has failed the nation. Politics are so corrupt that we can't even get an American into the White House. I can usually come up with a solution to most problems, but it appears that America's only hope is for the states to withdraw from the false federal government, then reform under a new contract that will not allow our government to be stolen by the rich, the corporations, the secret societies, or the serpent breed.

I'd like to offer hope for America, but I see none. Maybe one of you can see a meaningful solution to our problems, but if you can't see a meaningful solution to our nations problems, then you should sign your state's petition to withdraw from a government that has never really been ours.

Peace.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25166254


A good heartfelt post OP. Thanks for putting my feelings into words. I know our country has turned the corner and there is no going back.

I grieve, and I signed my state's petition. I want nothing to do with the corruption emanating from DC.
Who is John Galt?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/14/2012 07:21 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
Sounds like China will be here shortly. hiding
 Quoting: KimmieAnnaJones




Hmmm... China or Obama. Hmmm... That's a really tough one. Let me think on that for a bit.
Ambassador Grantor

User ID: 24657208
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11/14/2012 07:21 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
Represent = to Re - Present something. To bring forth an image of the original, but not being the original.



So....

Republic = To Re - Public something. To bring forth an image or the original, but not being the original.

So....



A Republic is STILL not a Public. It is an impostor too.

So... Democracy is not the way.... it is a failed policy.

So... Republic is not the way.... it is a failed policy.


My friends... we are going to have to question EVERYTHING as if we were children.

The wordsmithing has been used against us for at least 3000 yrs.
 Quoting: Ambassador Grantor



In other words, we need a new contract for America guaranteeing that the old powers can't infiltrate and take over the new government. It is not us that wasted America, it's as you said, the current establishment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25166254


The blood of commerce is contracts. The essence of contracts are words.

If a word can be twisted to mean anything... then every word in the contract is a loophole.

Bill Clinton : "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is.

Do you think he was just being funny?

No... he was practicing at Law.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/14/2012 07:22 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
Unless these are petitions filed by state government itself instead of Joe six pack, they don't mean much. :shrug:
 Quoting: Generation Doom


These petitions are all a side show. Any REAL movement would have to begin at state level, these are all just petitions anyone in America can sign and I guarantee you everyone in the federal government is laughing at.

Now, I don't WANT them to succeed, but I'm just saying, the only way they could is if they start at places like the Texan nationalist party, not these.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9266723


Wrong.

1 guy on a street corner can change the future.
This is a HUGE, spontaneous, and GROWING movement. It's only a few days old, and look at it!

It's the next logical step of the Tea Party, basically.
We're trying every peaceful petition, protest, and letter writing effort.

But damn it, we're done being fucked over by these pervert traitors in DC.

Line in the sand time.
We're not leaving the nation. The nation left us.
 Quoting: Carshy McCarsh




What he said. After my very own heart.
Ambassador Grantor

User ID: 24657208
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11/14/2012 07:24 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
"Attorney at Law"

You all have seen this....

Ever wondered.... if the attorneys are acting at law.... Who then... is performing IN LAW?

ahhh yes... a small little word... that changes the ENTIRE meaning of the sentence.

Last Edited by The Wordsmith on 11/14/2012 07:26 PM
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
11/14/2012 07:24 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
I never in all of my 50 plus years thought I'd want to leave America. In fact, I once swore that I'd never leave America even to visit a foreign nation. If I wanted Chinese, there's China towns in several states. Cincinnati is a good place for Vietnamese. We have people from every country and their signatures are all over America. Some of them are on petitions for their states to leave America. Times come and times change and America is dead to me. It's breathed its last. It's eyes have dimmed. And patriots, such as myself, are dying inside by the millions.

I signed the petition for my State. I don't believe the states should drown just because the federal government is sinking. That's what lifeboats are for, to escape death. All the states have done good individually, but Washington has failed the nation. Politics are so corrupt that we can't even get an American into the White House. I can usually come up with a solution to most problems, but it appears that America's only hope is for the states to withdraw from the false federal government, then reform under a new contract that will not allow our government to be stolen by the rich, the corporations, the secret societies, or the serpent breed.

I'd like to offer hope for America, but I see none. Maybe one of you can see a meaningful solution to our problems, but if you can't see a meaningful solution to our nations problems, then you should sign your state's petition to withdraw from a government that has never really been ours.

Peace.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25166254



There's supposedly a petition going around now that wants to consider those that signed these petitions in a nutshell enemies of the state. People on GLP for the most part knows the government world wide is corrupt. You're basically bring attention to yourself for when SHTF, particularly when they start rounding up people for the FEMA camps.
 Quoting: amber 7020607




When you think about all the soldiers who have died defending America, how can you be so selfish as to run and hide from a petition? Grow some balls or stay out of my threads please.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1779676
United States
11/14/2012 07:24 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
they would'nt be leaving these united States

they would be ending the corrupt Corp. U.S.A. corporation fake govt of wash d.c. and all its perversions. such as the fed. reserve
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27736309


Which is pretty much what I said.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25166254


To be honest, america was only alive for awhile because we ramsacked other nations, it was on life support since 2001
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27731573
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11/14/2012 07:26 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
in response, most of the comments coming from political hacks display a deep, deep ignorance of the history of secession and the Constitutional realities behind it.

In response, I thought I’d list some retorts to the basic myths which most of the anti-secession screeds are intent on perpetuating.

1. The Constitution does not prohibit secession. The legal argument boils down to this: 1. The Constitution does not mention secession. In any way. 2. The Tenth Amendment says: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” Now, I don’t have a Ph.D. in logic, but even I can figure out that if something is not mentioned, then, according to the 10th Amendment, it isn’t prohibited to the states. In fact is is the opposite of prohibited. Now, I know that the Supreme Court says no secession allowed, which means the federal government has declared that you can’t escape the federal government. Gee, that’s no shocker. So sure, if you believe that the federal government should be the last word on what the federal government can and cannot do, then that’s fine. Just don’t pretend that we have constitutional government. If the federal government gets to decide what the Constitution says, then the Constitution is nothing more than a suggestion box for the feds.

2. The Civil War did not “settle” the issue. Well, it settled the issue in the way that I settled the matter of ownership of that Steve Garvey baseball card when I beat up that other kid and took it. (OK, that never happened, but you get my point.) Secession was never settled beyond the federal government’s assertion that it has the right to kill people who try to exercise their rights protected by the Tenth Amendment.

3. Secession is treason/unAmerican/craaaazy/for slavers only. Prior to the confederacy, there were some slaveowners who got together and seceded from their government. They were called Thomas Jefferson and George Washington. If you’re opposed to the secession of 1776, then that’s fine, you might be consistent on this issue, but if you’re one of these right-wing pundits who thinks the Declaration of Independence should be read aloud every July 4, and then says that secession is nutso, you might try actually reading that document you profess to love.

The Declaration makes a simple argument:
1. Humans have rights from the Creator
2. Governments exist to secure those rights (a debatable assertion but we’ll roll with it.)
3. When the government fails to secure those rights, we can ditch it and start our own government.

That’s pretty much all it says. If you thought that was true in 1776, when tax rates were 1% and there was not such thing as a the EPA or the FBI or the IRS, why is it not true now? Because we’re so much more free now? And no, the Declaration did not say that the government is free to violate rights as long as people get to vote on it.

The Declaration establishes that there’s no such thing as treason, and a free government requires the assumption of just secession. Lysander Spooner explains (in No Treason #1):

Thus the whole Revolution [of 1775-1783] turned upon, asserted, and, in theory, established, the right of each and every man, at his discretion, to release himself from the support of the government under which he had lived. And this principle was asserted, not as a right peculiar to themselves, or to that time, or as applicable only to the government then existing; but as a universal right of all men, at all times, and under all circumstances.
Carshy McCarsh

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United States
11/14/2012 07:26 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
Unless these are petitions filed by state government itself instead of Joe six pack, they don't mean much. shrug
 Quoting: Generation Doom


These petitions are all a side show. Any REAL movement would have to begin at state level, these are all just petitions anyone in America can sign and I guarantee you everyone in the federal government is laughing at.

Now, I don't WANT them to succeed, but I'm just saying, the only way they could is if they start at places like the Texan nationalist party, not these.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9266723


Wrong.

1 guy on a street corner can change the future.
This is a HUGE, spontaneous, and GROWING movement. It's only a few days old, and look at it!

It's the next logical step of the Tea Party, basically.
We're trying every peaceful petition, protest, and letter writing effort.

But damn it, we're done being fucked over by these pervert traitors in DC.

Line in the sand time.
We're not leaving the nation. The nation left us.
 Quoting: Carshy McCarsh




What he said. After my very own heart.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25166254


WOLVERINES!

cheers
Tell me what this tastes like...
Renegade (Me too)

User ID: 24639180
United States
11/14/2012 07:28 PM

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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
Any petitions to deport the illegal aliens.. and stop allowing the Islam refugees & immigration?
 Quoting: - 27605885



I think I saw something about that. You should probably scan the list of petitions and add your signature where appropriate. That's what I did. It might be like our votes, meaningless, but try anyway.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25166254


no it ain't...mr. o might begin deportation agaisnt those who signed the petitions...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1513486


FUCK where will we be deported to?!? hiding
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14779720


An island, a beautiful, beautiful island with coconut and palm trees. No electricity, but all the fish you can catch and warm summer breezes. No government ... no muslims ... no b's ... no free rides ... no beurocracy.
Who is John Galt?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/14/2012 07:28 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
Petitions mean nothing and only pind forces better used in other, serious efforts.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26991073



But a petition or a lawsuit should be pursued first. Sometimes the pen can be mightier than the sword.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
11/14/2012 07:29 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
Unless these are petitions filed by state government itself instead of Joe six pack, they don't mean much. :shrug:
 Quoting: Generation Doom



Actually, they show the unified feelings of Americans. Not only that, Obama has promised to respond to every petition that gathered 25,000 signatures. And who said anything about Joe 6 pack? I never drink. Would you insinuate that only drunks are signing the petitions?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25166254


lmao It just means your average American.


[link to www.urbandictionary.com]
 Quoting: Generation Doom




Thank you.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
11/14/2012 07:30 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
bind
why did i press p? oO
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26991073


I understood you:)
Carshy McCarsh

User ID: 27734006
United States
11/14/2012 07:33 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
I never in all of my 50 plus years thought I'd want to leave America. In fact, I once swore that I'd never leave America even to visit a foreign nation. If I wanted Chinese, there's China towns in several states. Cincinnati is a good place for Vietnamese. We have people from every country and their signatures are all over America. Some of them are on petitions for their states to leave America. Times come and times change and America is dead to me. It's breathed its last. It's eyes have dimmed. And patriots, such as myself, are dying inside by the millions.

I signed the petition for my State. I don't believe the states should drown just because the federal government is sinking. That's what lifeboats are for, to escape death. All the states have done good individually, but Washington has failed the nation. Politics are so corrupt that we can't even get an American into the White House. I can usually come up with a solution to most problems, but it appears that America's only hope is for the states to withdraw from the false federal government, then reform under a new contract that will not allow our government to be stolen by the rich, the corporations, the secret societies, or the serpent breed.

I'd like to offer hope for America, but I see none. Maybe one of you can see a meaningful solution to our problems, but if you can't see a meaningful solution to our nations problems, then you should sign your state's petition to withdraw from a government that has never really been ours.

Peace.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25166254



There's supposedly a petition going around now that wants to consider those that signed these petitions in a nutshell enemies of the state. People on GLP for the most part knows the government world wide is corrupt. You're basically bring attention to yourself for when SHTF, particularly when they start rounding up people for the FEMA camps.
 Quoting: amber 7020607




When you think about all the soldiers who have died defending America, how can you be so selfish as to run and hide from a petition? Grow some balls or stay out of my threads please.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25166254


applause2
Tell me what this tastes like...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 25166254
United States
11/14/2012 07:34 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
in response, most of the comments coming from political hacks display a deep, deep ignorance of the history of secession and the Constitutional realities behind it.

In response, I thought I’d list some retorts to the basic myths which most of the anti-secession screeds are intent on perpetuating.

1. The Constitution does not prohibit secession. The legal argument boils down to this: 1. The Constitution does not mention secession. In any way. 2. The Tenth Amendment says: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” Now, I don’t have a Ph.D. in logic, but even I can figure out that if something is not mentioned, then, according to the 10th Amendment, it isn’t prohibited to the states. In fact is is the opposite of prohibited. Now, I know that the Supreme Court says no secession allowed, which means the federal government has declared that you can’t escape the federal government. Gee, that’s no shocker. So sure, if you believe that the federal government should be the last word on what the federal government can and cannot do, then that’s fine. Just don’t pretend that we have constitutional government. If the federal government gets to decide what the Constitution says, then the Constitution is nothing more than a suggestion box for the feds.

2. The Civil War did not “settle” the issue. Well, it settled the issue in the way that I settled the matter of ownership of that Steve Garvey baseball card when I beat up that other kid and took it. (OK, that never happened, but you get my point.) Secession was never settled beyond the federal government’s assertion that it has the right to kill people who try to exercise their rights protected by the Tenth Amendment.

3. Secession is treason/unAmerican/craaaazy/for slavers only. Prior to the confederacy, there were some slaveowners who got together and seceded from their government. They were called Thomas Jefferson and George Washington. If you’re opposed to the secession of 1776, then that’s fine, you might be consistent on this issue, but if you’re one of these right-wing pundits who thinks the Declaration of Independence should be read aloud every July 4, and then says that secession is nutso, you might try actually reading that document you profess to love.

The Declaration makes a simple argument:
1. Humans have rights from the Creator
2. Governments exist to secure those rights (a debatable assertion but we’ll roll with it.)
3. When the government fails to secure those rights, we can ditch it and start our own government.

That’s pretty much all it says. If you thought that was true in 1776, when tax rates were 1% and there was not such thing as a the EPA or the FBI or the IRS, why is it not true now? Because we’re so much more free now? And no, the Declaration did not say that the government is free to violate rights as long as people get to vote on it.

The Declaration establishes that there’s no such thing as treason, and a free government requires the assumption of just secession. Lysander Spooner explains (in No Treason #1):

Thus the whole Revolution [of 1775-1783] turned upon, asserted, and, in theory, established, the right of each and every man, at his discretion, to release himself from the support of the government under which he had lived. And this principle was asserted, not as a right peculiar to themselves, or to that time, or as applicable only to the government then existing; but as a universal right of all men, at all times, and under all circumstances.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27731573



Brains, glorious brains. Why didn't you run against Obama?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
11/14/2012 07:35 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
they would'nt be leaving these united States

they would be ending the corrupt Corp. U.S.A. corporation fake govt of wash d.c. and all its perversions. such as the fed. reserve
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27736309


Which is pretty much what I said.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25166254


To be honest, america was only alive for awhile because we ramsacked other nations, it was on life support since 2001
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1779676



I think America has been dying a slow death since Vietnam.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13810756
United States
11/14/2012 07:37 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
they would'nt be leaving these united States

they would be ending the corrupt Corp. U.S.A. corporation fake govt of wash d.c. and all its perversions. such as the fed. reserve
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27736309


Thread: Understanding our SOVEREIGNTY & REPUBLIC <--- Must watch [2 videos]

Scroll down for the hard facts
-
User ID: 27605885
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11/14/2012 07:45 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
There are other 'make a petition' websites. Odd they never made the news.


[link to www.ipetitions.com]


[link to www.thepetitionsite.com]


Apparently WhiteHouse.gov didnt want all the petitions over there on a different site they couldnt control. Start a petition at WH.gov and they will manipulate the numbers.
KoFFee_

User ID: 1373078
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11/14/2012 07:46 PM

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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
There are so many different petitions going on right now, it's crazy.

There is another petition that is gaining force that asks Obama to strip the citizenship of everyone who’s signed a petition to secede.

[link to petitions.whitehouse.gov (secure)]

This is the one that I favor:

Allow Any American To Voluntarily Opt Out Of "ObamaCare" [The So Called Affordable Care Act]

[link to petitions.whitehouse.gov (secure)]
However, I consider my life worth nothing to me; my only aim is to finish the race and complete the task
the Lord Jesus has given me—the task of testifying to the good news of God’s grace. Acts 20:24

"This man really is the Savior of the world!" John 4:42

Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him;
and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, " says the Lord God, who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:7

I do not own the rights to any video posted, they are for educational/entertainment purposes only.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 07:48 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
in response, most of the comments coming from political hacks display a deep, deep ignorance of the history of secession and the Constitutional realities behind it.

In response, I thought I’d list some retorts to the basic myths which most of the anti-secession screeds are intent on perpetuating.

1. The Constitution does not prohibit secession. The legal argument boils down to this: 1. The Constitution does not mention secession. In any way. 2. The Tenth Amendment says: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” Now, I don’t have a Ph.D. in logic, but even I can figure out that if something is not mentioned, then, according to the 10th Amendment, it isn’t prohibited to the states. In fact is is the opposite of prohibited. Now, I know that the Supreme Court says no secession allowed, which means the federal government has declared that you can’t escape the federal government. Gee, that’s no shocker. So sure, if you believe that the federal government should be the last word on what the federal government can and cannot do, then that’s fine. Just don’t pretend that we have constitutional government. If the federal government gets to decide what the Constitution says, then the Constitution is nothing more than a suggestion box for the feds.

2. The Civil War did not “settle” the issue. Well, it settled the issue in the way that I settled the matter of ownership of that Steve Garvey baseball card when I beat up that other kid and took it. (OK, that never happened, but you get my point.) Secession was never settled beyond the federal government’s assertion that it has the right to kill people who try to exercise their rights protected by the Tenth Amendment.

3. Secession is treason/unAmerican/craaaazy/for slavers only. Prior to the confederacy, there were some slaveowners who got together and seceded from their government. They were called Thomas Jefferson and George Washington. If you’re opposed to the secession of 1776, then that’s fine, you might be consistent on this issue, but if you’re one of these right-wing pundits who thinks the Declaration of Independence should be read aloud every July 4, and then says that secession is nutso, you might try actually reading that document you profess to love.

The Declaration makes a simple argument:
1. Humans have rights from the Creator
2. Governments exist to secure those rights (a debatable assertion but we’ll roll with it.)
3. When the government fails to secure those rights, we can ditch it and start our own government.

That’s pretty much all it says. If you thought that was true in 1776, when tax rates were 1% and there was not such thing as a the EPA or the FBI or the IRS, why is it not true now? Because we’re so much more free now? And no, the Declaration did not say that the government is free to violate rights as long as people get to vote on it.

The Declaration establishes that there’s no such thing as treason, and a free government requires the assumption of just secession. Lysander Spooner explains (in No Treason #1):

Thus the whole Revolution [of 1775-1783] turned upon, asserted, and, in theory, established, the right of each and every man, at his discretion, to release himself from the support of the government under which he had lived. And this principle was asserted, not as a right peculiar to themselves, or to that time, or as applicable only to the government then existing; but as a universal right of all men, at all times, and under all circumstances.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27731573



Brains, glorious brains. Why didn't you run against Obama?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25166254


Because the common man is NOT allowed to.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 25166254
United States
11/14/2012 07:57 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
Allow Any American To Voluntarily Opt Out Of "ObamaCare" [The So Called Affordable Care Act]


I signed that one too.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27770650
United States
11/14/2012 07:58 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
...



I think I saw something about that. You should probably scan the list of petitions and add your signature where appropriate. That's what I did. It might be like our votes, meaningless, but try anyway.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25166254


no it ain't...mr. o might begin deportation agaisnt those who signed the petitions...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1513486


How can someone that's not even a "natural citizen" and therefore is not even truly the prez(by law of THE Constitution) of the USA...deport anyone? LMAO!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27690612



How could he become president??? He's already proved that patriotism and nationality are meaningless to his office. And the only thing we can do is sign a petition. Sad, but true.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25166254


I agree. The truth is, the only way we could ever regain control of OUR country is through an organized revolution. It's happened before and can happen again.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 25166254
United States
11/14/2012 07:59 PM
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Re: All 50 States have petitions open asking to peacefully withdraw from the Union
in response, most of the comments coming from political hacks display a deep, deep ignorance of the history of secession and the Constitutional realities behind it.

In response, I thought I’d list some retorts to the basic myths which most of the anti-secession screeds are intent on perpetuating.

1. The Constitution does not prohibit secession. The legal argument boils down to this: 1. The Constitution does not mention secession. In any way. 2. The Tenth Amendment says: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” Now, I don’t have a Ph.D. in logic, but even I can figure out that if something is not mentioned, then, according to the 10th Amendment, it isn’t prohibited to the states. In fact is is the opposite of prohibited. Now, I know that the Supreme Court says no secession allowed, which means the federal government has declared that you can’t escape the federal government. Gee, that’s no shocker. So sure, if you believe that the federal government should be the last word on what the federal government can and cannot do, then that’s fine. Just don’t pretend that we have constitutional government. If the federal government gets to decide what the Constitution says, then the Constitution is nothing more than a suggestion box for the feds.

2. The Civil War did not “settle” the issue. Well, it settled the issue in the way that I settled the matter of ownership of that Steve Garvey baseball card when I beat up that other kid and took it. (OK, that never happened, but you get my point.) Secession was never settled beyond the federal government’s assertion that it has the right to kill people who try to exercise their rights protected by the Tenth Amendment.

3. Secession is treason/unAmerican/craaaazy/for slavers only. Prior to the confederacy, there were some slaveowners who got together and seceded from their government. They were called Thomas Jefferson and George Washington. If you’re opposed to the secession of 1776, then that’s fine, you might be consistent on this issue, but if you’re one of these right-wing pundits who thinks the Declaration of Independence should be read aloud every July 4, and then says that secession is nutso, you might try actually reading that document you profess to love.

The Declaration makes a simple argument:
1. Humans have rights from the Creator
2. Governments exist to secure those rights (a debatable assertion but we’ll roll with it.)
3. When the government fails to secure those rights, we can ditch it and start our own government.

That’s pretty much all it says. If you thought that was true in 1776, when tax rates were 1% and there was not such thing as a the EPA or the FBI or the IRS, why is it not true now? Because we’re so much more free now? And no, the Declaration did not say that the government is free to violate rights as long as people get to vote on it.

The Declaration establishes that there’s no such thing as treason, and a free government requires the assumption of just secession. Lysander Spooner explains (in No Treason #1):

Thus the whole Revolution [of 1775-1783] turned upon, asserted, and, in theory, established, the right of each and every man, at his discretion, to release himself from the support of the government under which he had lived. And this principle was asserted, not as a right peculiar to themselves, or to that time, or as applicable only to the government then existing; but as a universal right of all men, at all times, and under all circumstances.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27731573



Brains, glorious brains. Why didn't you run against Obama?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25166254


Because the common man is NOT allowed to.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25658088




That's actually part of what I was saying. It's really not our government and never has been.

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