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Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?

 
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 05:44 PM
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Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
I'm 18 and don't have much of an idea of what I want to do. I've thought about law school but that's supposedly saturated now. I'm currently taking some courses at a community college in the mean time while I think, but is it really worth it that I continue? Give me your opinions GLP.
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11/14/2012 05:45 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
Thread: Cruel mind control
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 05:46 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
Of course not, it's 2012
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 05:50 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
totally worth it , when my junior slavers are practicing castration they will have to use lawyers until they get good at it ).
Biochemky

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11/14/2012 05:56 PM

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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
I hate to say it OP, but I do not think you have enough time left to finish an undergraduate degree (let alone a graduate degree) before the economic "system" implodes followed shortly after with what we refer to as typical American society imploding too.

If you seek any education, it must education that is practical: mechanical or medical training or training in agricultural practices.

My best advice to you is to secure employment in a rural community to make yourself known in the community and provide you with enough cash to rent a small farm with an option to buy. Then buy the farm with the best natural water source(s), soil quality, and timber that has southern exposure and a sufficiently long growing season that you can afford.

You need to get your hands on a piece of land that has acreage that can be farmed as soon as you are able to do so. Such places are rapidly disappearing from the market and they represent a person's best chance of surviving the events/circumstances/politics that are just on the horizon.

Last Edited by Biochemky on 11/14/2012 05:57 PM
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 06:02 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
In the USA you must first complete an undergraduate degree (or very close at least) before going to law or medical school. So if you go to school here, law and medicine are not among the choices for several more years anyway.

If you're not sure what you want to study, do some free online lectures. There are very good ones available thru MIT, Harvard, Stanford and other great schools. My children are gradually learning introductory mechanics (8.01) from the online lectures from MIT. These are the greatest universities, and if you have discipline, you can learn a lot and get an idea of what you can really do at a professional level. All without spending a penny or taking on any debt.

I am not referring to "online colleges" that charge money and give credit and degrees for online study. I am referring to the free lectures posted by these great, famous universities.

Then see what training is required, whether you can get some credit thru exams, etc.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 06:28 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have gone to college or graduate school. I would have found a job and just worked my way up.

At least when I went to school, I was able to finance it myself through scholarships and many part time jobs. But now, it's almost impossible to get a degree without putting yourself in massive debt. Do you want to start your career in debt, with no guarantee that it will be really beneficial to you, or when you will be able to pay it back?

Especially since you don't know what you want to pursue, at this time (and most of us at your age didn't either, hence we changed jobs a lot).

Getting a degree is no longer a guarantee of a good job or of promotions. Sometimes, that only comes from who you know and what family you came from. I got stuck in that kind of work situation a couple times! In other words, there was never a chance of moving up because those jobs were already slated for others, before you even hired in.

I would recommend apprenticeship programs. Learning a trade that will always be in demand, but something you enjoy. Something you can do free lance, anywhere in the country, any time. America is getting very short on these talented craftsmen; what we have instead is overeducated, out-of-work people, with too much competition in their fields. And they are broke before they start, due to student loans.

Can't tell you how many times when I switched careers, I was told "You're over qualified". Had to start at the bottom each time to show them I was adaptable, trainable, and damned good at what I did. But that's rather expensive to your livelihood.

The fact that you are thinking about it now (not pursuing the higher ed) could mean your intuition is trying to tell you something. Give it some more thought, and best of luck to you.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 06:34 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
Learn how to build software my friend.

Learn C++
Ruby on Rails
Java
Objective C

Learn to use different IDEs such as Qt, Xcode (for mac development), Visual Studio (for windows development), Eclipse (Android Dev), you get the idea. You don't have to learn all of them. Just pick whichever ones you find the most useful. For example the Objective C + Xcode combination sets you up for iPhone and iPad development. Eclipse + Java sets you up for Android dev. C++ opens you up to do any freakin thing from video games and music to robots.

I'm telling you this because the only people I know whose heads are above water are the programmers. I know brilliant aerospace engineers working at chick-fil-a and mechanical engineers who are jobless and living with their parents. And yes they had internships. The college graduate situation is abysmal and I strongly advise you to instead put your nose to the grindstone and learn how to do software. The most successful person I know quit college and taught himself programming. Now he runs 3 highly successful companies and has traveled all over the world.

I recommend using the YouTube series from a channel called VoidRealms for learning Java, C++, and/or the Qt system for GUI development. The New Boston is another great channel for learning programming. Most books I've seen aren't that great until you're ready to start developing software for specific purposes (i.e. developing iPad apps in Xcode, that kind of thing).

Seriously consider this route. Software development is the only thing in high demand whether you seek to find a job or start a company.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 06:38 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
Don't go to college, trust me on that.

All the jobs that are "garunteed" to you after graduation DO NOT EXIST.

DO NOT expect to get an automatic easy high paying job. They do not exist.

I am 20, I chose not to go to college because I realized early on that it is a scam.

I am working a full time job at a company I found, it is a medical device making company, I am working for 11$ an hour but there is opportunity for me to learn and get higher pay and better position.

THAT is the only way to do things at this point, going to college is for people that are sheep and still believe that everything is OK and the economy will never be bad etc

:D :hf:

“If you want to get laid, go to college. If you want an education, go to the library.”


― Frank Zappa
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 06:38 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
Never go into law. Something law-related? I had a recent convo with mine and he said he recognized early on he had to make a choice.(We had time to kill before a hearing) To go for big bucks, you give away 5 yrs minimum of your life and do grunt work at a well known firm. Might as well live at the place. Then it really never gets better. The higher-ups in the firms make tons of money but have no happiness, no life. On their 4th wife, no relationships with their kids...so..Choose wisely OP. Or take your time choosing.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 06:52 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
About software development as a career choice: Yes, if you have the skills right now, today, they are needed. But I see that field also being glutted within a very short time. Plus technological advances are going to mean that a lot of programming is done "automatically" in future.

I don't know what your feelings are about various conspiracies, or the likelihood of us loosing the grid, etc. But if you are leaning in that direction, there will be no computers. People who know how to make and do stuff from scratch are going to be the survivors; they are the ones that have a useful bartering tool. Technological or legal knowledge will have zilch value. Medical knowledge, especially knowing how to use herbs and materials on hand, will always be valuable, as will building and mechanical skills.


So, what are your reactions to the various suggestions you've heard so far?
s. d. butler

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11/14/2012 06:52 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
I hate to say it OP, but I do not think you have enough time left to finish an undergraduate degree (let alone a graduate degree) before the economic "system" implodes followed shortly after with what we refer to as typical American society imploding too.

If you seek any education, it must education that is practical: mechanical or medical training or training in agricultural practices.

My best advice to you is to secure employment in a rural community to make yourself known in the community and provide you with enough cash to rent a small farm with an option to buy. Then buy the farm with the best natural water source(s), soil quality, and timber that has southern exposure and a sufficiently long growing season that you can afford.

You need to get your hands on a piece of land that has acreage that can be farmed as soon as you are able to do so. Such places are rapidly disappearing from the market and they represent a person's best chance of surviving the events/circumstances/politics that are just on the horizon.
 Quoting: Biochemky


This is good advice even if nothing much happens in the near future.

Something bad will happen well within your lifetime though.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/14/2012 07:01 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
Dooooom
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/14/2012 07:05 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
Learn how to build software my friend.

Learn C++
Ruby on Rails
Java
Objective C

Learn to use different IDEs such as Qt, Xcode (for mac development), Visual Studio (for windows development), Eclipse (Android Dev), you get the idea. You don't have to learn all of them. Just pick whichever ones you find the most useful. For example the Objective C + Xcode combination sets you up for iPhone and iPad development. Eclipse + Java sets you up for Android dev. C++ opens you up to do any freakin thing from video games and music to robots.

I'm telling you this because the only people I know whose heads are above water are the programmers. I know brilliant aerospace engineers working at chick-fil-a and mechanical engineers who are jobless and living with their parents. And yes they had internships. The college graduate situation is abysmal and I strongly advise you to instead put your nose to the grindstone and learn how to do software. The most successful person I know quit college and taught himself programming. Now he runs 3 highly successful companies and has traveled all over the world.

I recommend using the YouTube series from a channel called VoidRealms for learning Java, C++, and/or the Qt system for GUI development. The New Boston is another great channel for learning programming. Most books I've seen aren't that great until you're ready to start developing software for specific purposes (i.e. developing iPad apps in Xcode, that kind of thing).

Seriously consider this route. Software development is the only thing in high demand whether you seek to find a job or start a company.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27724835

How long do you think it would take to get proficient in software development?
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 07:22 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
About software development as a career choice: Yes, if you have the skills right now, today, they are needed. But I see that field also being glutted within a very short time. Plus technological advances are going to mean that a lot of programming is done "automatically" in future.

I don't know what your feelings are about various conspiracies, or the likelihood of us loosing the grid, etc. But if you are leaning in that direction, there will be no computers. People who know how to make and do stuff from scratch are going to be the survivors; they are the ones that have a useful bartering tool. Technological or legal knowledge will have zilch value. Medical knowledge, especially knowing how to use herbs and materials on hand, will always be valuable, as will building and mechanical skills.


So, what are your reactions to the various suggestions you've heard so far?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27758786

Why will there be no computers? There will be a zillion computers, but maybe not electricity to run them.

There might be no internet. Or the internet might be rebuilt gradually.

So get a computer, a diesel generator, make biodiesel and run run your computer.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 07:27 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
Run dont walk from Law School...
I have 150+ k in debt and have never made more than 60k a year and have no hope of paying it.....

Complete waste of time.
Not even practicing now
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/14/2012 08:31 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
Bump, you guys seem to have good info.

Also, at the 60k lawyer guy, what were you practicing before?
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 08:43 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
I'm 18 and don't have much of an idea of what I want to do. I've thought about law school but that's supposedly saturated now. I'm currently taking some courses at a community college in the mean time while I think, but is it really worth it that I continue? Give me your opinions GLP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4050711


I'm looking at the replies you're getting. I'm 54 years old..and back in school..headed for a phd. We have a young man in his early thirties living with us. He's going back to school next semester.

My husband DID work his way up. He spent most of his life paying his dues and watching those with the education pass him up. Now he's 57 and frankly? Worn out.

School does not guarantee a good job. It does teach you how to manage your own life though.

I dropped out of school in my teens because I wanted to be a teacher--but the field was more than saturated. Now they're begging for them.

People here..who say you may not have enough time to get your work done? They might be right. Not likely but..maybe! You could also get hit by a car tomorrow and still not have enough time.

You go for what you know is right, then take responsibility for it. Don't listen to anyone else. You decide then..with all your heart..don't look back and..DO IT.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 08:44 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
I'm 18 and don't have much of an idea of what I want to do. I've thought about law school but that's supposedly saturated now. I'm currently taking some courses at a community college in the mean time while I think, but is it really worth it that I continue? Give me your opinions GLP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4050711


One of the few things of truth in this world is education.

Noone or any situation can take your education/experience away from you.

Is it a guarentee....NOPE. Is it possible that you will connect and find an interest that will make your work play...YEP.

Do not listen to those who negate higher education.

They are leftover, envious, hateful and egocentric.

Follow what you like. Your dream or what you actually are attracted to. If it is games, porn, entertainment/media...well join the crowd. NO, I am talking about your inate talent. What is it?

Develope it and you will have peace of mind....the only real reason for your existance now.
Travis Bickle
Vigilantes need love too....

User ID: 26788702
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11/14/2012 08:49 PM

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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
Learn how to build software my friend.

Learn C++
Ruby on Rails
Java
Objective C

Learn to use different IDEs such as Qt, Xcode (for mac development), Visual Studio (for windows development), Eclipse (Android Dev), you get the idea. You don't have to learn all of them. Just pick whichever ones you find the most useful. For example the Objective C + Xcode combination sets you up for iPhone and iPad development. Eclipse + Java sets you up for Android dev. C++ opens you up to do any freakin thing from video games and music to robots.

I'm telling you this because the only people I know whose heads are above water are the programmers. I know brilliant aerospace engineers working at chick-fil-a and mechanical engineers who are jobless and living with their parents. And yes they had internships. The college graduate situation is abysmal and I strongly advise you to instead put your nose to the grindstone and learn how to do software. The most successful person I know quit college and taught himself programming. Now he runs 3 highly successful companies and has traveled all over the world.

I recommend using the YouTube series from a channel called VoidRealms for learning Java, C++, and/or the Qt system for GUI development. The New Boston is another great channel for learning programming. Most books I've seen aren't that great until you're ready to start developing software for specific purposes (i.e. developing iPad apps in Xcode, that kind of thing).

Seriously consider this route. Software development is the only thing in high demand whether you seek to find a job or start a company.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27724835


While I ALWAYS suggest that people should continue their education (In the direction of their interest of course) I cannot go against what the A/C said. If you're interested at all in the Tech industry, there will ALWAYS be a place for programmers.

Unless your Law School aspiration is some sort of pre-req for something else, I wouldn't pursue that. I know many, MANY attorney's who are frustrated and semi-employed. It's not the field it used to be and is really saturated. That being said, a degree to go along with whatever skills you possess puts you ahead of all the self taught internet scholars.

Last Edited by Travis Bickle on 11/14/2012 08:52 PM
One of these days... A *REAL* rain is gonna come and wash all this scum off the streets.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 08:49 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
I'm a 2008 graduate.

I'd say college is maybe worth it. But you say you don't know what you want to do. Then a university is definitely not worth it.

Go to community college for 2 years and figure it out. Plus, going to community college makes it way easier to transfer to the university of your choice. The competition to get into most popular universities is absurd. If you are a white male, you will not be accepted unless your high school record is stellar, and even then you'd have to be lucky.

Law school...DEFINITELY not worth it. There are way too many lawyers, it's a completely saturated industry. You'll be stuck as a junior attorney for decades.
Travis Bickle
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11/14/2012 08:50 PM

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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
I'm 18 and don't have much of an idea of what I want to do. I've thought about law school but that's supposedly saturated now. I'm currently taking some courses at a community college in the mean time while I think, but is it really worth it that I continue? Give me your opinions GLP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4050711


One of the few things of truth in this world is education.

Noone or any situation can take your education/experience away from you.

Is it a guarentee....NOPE. Is it possible that you will connect and find an interest that will make your work play...YEP.

Do not listen to those who negate higher education.

They are leftover, envious, hateful and egocentric.

Follow what you like. Your dream or what you actually are attracted to. If it is games, porn, entertainment/media...well join the crowd. NO, I am talking about your inate talent. What is it?

Develope it and you will have peace of mind....the only real reason for your existance now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27517802


Well said!
tbclap
One of these days... A *REAL* rain is gonna come and wash all this scum off the streets.
mopar28m
Lev. 23:23-25

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11/14/2012 08:57 PM

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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
I'm 18 and don't have much of an idea of what I want to do. I've thought about law school but that's supposedly saturated now. I'm currently taking some courses at a community college in the mean time while I think, but is it really worth it that I continue? Give me your opinions GLP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4050711


Continue with your community college work, graduate don't transfer to another college until you graduate as a 4 year college can chip away at your credits & make you repeat coursework.

Just go part time so you can work part time to figure out what you want to do with your life.

I'm 42 & am in my 3rd year of college. I'm majoring in English with a minor in Literature. I want to go into free lance writing.

At the age of 18, you may not know what you want for the rest of your life, you don't have to decide right now. Take your time to explore different avenues of opportunity.
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Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 09:02 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
Get your gen ed for the undergrad, will take 2 years, you will be older and have a better clue on what you want to do. I have a 21 and 18, my 21 is going to Stanford Law next year.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 09:02 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
I'm 18 and don't have much of an idea of what I want to do. I've thought about law school but that's supposedly saturated now. I'm currently taking some courses at a community college in the mean time while I think, but is it really worth it that I continue? Give me your opinions GLP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4050711


One of the few things of truth in this world is education.

Noone or any situation can take your education/experience away from you.

Is it a guarentee....NOPE. Is it possible that you will connect and find an interest that will make your work play...YEP.

Do not listen to those who negate higher education.

They are leftover, envious, hateful and egocentric.

Follow what you like. Your dream or what you actually are attracted to. If it is games, porn, entertainment/media...well join the crowd. NO, I am talking about your inate talent. What is it?

Develope it and you will have peace of mind....the only real reason for your existance now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27517802


Well said!
:tbclap:
 Quoting: Travis Bickle


I can tell that was written by someone who is at least 40. See, back then, Universities actually used to actually hold to the concept of "higher education", where only the brightest, most ambitious students went to college and were challenged intellectually. That is rewarding. Everyone else went to trade schools, became apprentices, or worked for their parents or local businesses. NOTHING wrong with that. Trade jobs are good jobs.

Now Universities are just high school 2.0 because huge numbers of unworthy students get accepted into universities (due to this perceived notion that everyone HAS to go to college). And just like in the public education system over the last 30 years, instead of maintaining standards and not hesitating to fail people, the standards are lowered to the lowest common denominator. It really bugs me that the college degree I got is worth no more to a potential employer than the college degree of these people who had no business being in higher education to begin with.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 09:05 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
BTW: if you don't get a grad of some sort, you will be poor.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 09:05 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
Or in much simpler terms, the inherit value of obtaining a college degree has been massively diluted.
Lemon

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11/14/2012 09:06 PM

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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
If you can continue school without debt, please do.

Smart engineers & other sciences are getting jobs. Healthcare is hiring. Law is tough, feast or famine ( & the ones feasting generally have family members in high places).

The hospital I work for pays for tuition for full time employees. Hard to say no to a free skill, but 99% do say no.

Debt is slavery. Avoid it.
THREE LAWS OF TYRANNY


Tyranny Law #1:
"Any power that can be abused will be abused."

Tyranny Law #2:
"Abuse always expands to fill the limits of resistance to it."

Tyranny Law #3:
"If people don't resist the abuses of others, they will have no one to resist the abuses of themselves, and tyranny will prevail."
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 09:06 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
BTW: if you don't get a grad of some sort, you will be poor.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13926736


Bullshit.
Anonymous Coward
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11/14/2012 09:10 PM
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Re: Is college or even grad/law school worth it even more?
Bullshit.

Yes there are some that could make $$$ without a grad, 99% can't look at food stamps 47 million and going up at 12% per year. 50% without work. Bullshit, right the numbers are on my side.

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