Trying to decide on a gun / guns? Money a big factor?

And all the ammo is very available and cheap in those calibers. Three for the price of one. I like that!

Money isn't a factor if you buy a moist nugget.

YOU CANST BE GLORIOUS MOTHER RUSSIAN PEASANT SNIPPER LIKE SERGI TOO!

Rich in gifts.

Poor in gifts.

I have been a fool, Vasily.

Here's another idea.

Get a Marlin .22 semi auto with a scope. $150 bucks brand new. It holds 18 rounds. It's as quiet as an air rifle and can be made totally silent with an 18oz pop bottle. It'll drop a deer with the right shot. And you can get a box of 500 rounds for about $12 bucks at Wal*Marrt.

You can sell blood and afford this weapon. Perfect for everything. Especially a SHTF scenario. If you have money later then yes get a bigger caliber. But for the money, you can't go wrong with this purchase.

He was actually Finnish.

really. not much stopping power here. i like the ops idea.

The more important question is Can you pull the trigger and kill someone?

What circumstances would drive you to do it?

What would you do with the body?

If your victim is unarmed, you will mandatorily go to prison. Are you prepared to do 20 to life?

If your victim breaks into your house, you will still go to prison if you shoot him.

No...better to learn some of this [link to www.libertyreferences.com]

Particularly this one... FM 5-31 Boobytraps.
[link to archive.org]

Stopping power is a myth. 99% of people would never get in a situation where 'stopping power' would even be needed.

Take it from a combat vet. If you're coming at me, I will stop you with a .22 all day long and ill do it from a 100 yards.

i can agree a little bit with your logic, but still like the diversity of the ops choice. there are other factors involved though. if we're talking about a 22-250, ok then.

in the us, depending on where you live, no, this is not true. if a person breaks into your home, you have every right to defend yourself and your family, including shooting the intruder without fear of jail.

Your combat didn't involve trench warfare did it? Because you never overran an enemy's position.
No urban warfare either, eh?

Mostly urban and open desert. 5.56 and .50. Lots of MK 19 if there were trenches. Stop and lob.

[link to www.youtube.com]

.22 can be deflected from the cranium. I wouldn't trust it to reliably stop a person

I'm not refuting the op. that's a great combo. But you're still looking at $500 bucks there. Figured there's some dudes out there living on Ramen. The Marlin .22 option is better option than nothing.

You can't go wrong with a .22 for fucking up someone's innards.

If they're 100 yards away then you have all day long to fill them full of lead so your example is basically meaningless.

You make it sound like stopping power is just a buzz word with no practical value. That's ridiculous. If you intend to hunt anything bigger than domestic cat you're going to want something that can reliably stop your target on the first shot so you don't have to track a bleeding animal for miles and miles.

If a looter coming at you in your house, you're going to want to end the situation immediately. I'd choose a shotgun over your piddly .22 any day of the week.

Take it from someone who's not a moron.

I'm not going to crap on the .22, I think it has its place in the home defense setup, but it would not be my first choice by any stretch. In the same price range as an inexpensive .22 rifle, you can find that H&R pump shotgun the OP mentioned for around $179, and the Maverick 88 goes for the same price at Walmart and Academy as well.

Hit the pawn shops, and you can probably cut that down to around $125 used...and you'll probably turn up a few good used Mossberg 500s and Winchester 1200s in that price range as well.

This is what someone who doesn't know anything about guns sounds like.

I want you to try to deflect a 22 hollow point with your head. You're an idiot.

If it's for home protection I'd go for shotgun. You don't need a great aim and within 10 meters you are pretty much guaranteed to hit what you want even if you are shaking like a leaf.

Has a great fear factor as well. Go the full works and make a sawn off will add x10 to the effect.

With a gun it's actually hard to hit a target if you are shaking.

What, specifically did I say which is incorrect? You're simply an idiot if you think it's a good idea to rely on a lucky shot to save your bacon.

It's clearly you who has probably never even picked up a firearm in your entire life.

You sound like you're probably some kid who thinks it's like in the movies where you can shoot a car's gas tank and make it explode.

Here's some actual information, to ward off the trolls like you....

[link to today.msnbc.msn.com]


"Florida woman survives gunshot between the eyes
Bullet shatters, bounces off skull of 42-year-old victim in road rage assault"

"Police investigators would theorize that the man fired three shots from a gun that they believe was a .44-caliber handgun. One of the bullets struck Marie directly between the eyes."

[link to www.gunandgame.com]

"The article said, "Put a plate of food in front of the pig. Draw a mental line from its left eye to the right ear, and from the right eye to the left ear. Shoot the animal with a .22 rifle where the lines intersect and it will die quickly and painlessly." In the event, when I followed those instructions, the pig did NOT die quickly and painlessly. The .22 LR round is not up to the task of instantly dispatching a pig with a head shot at a range of less than five feet. It took me three rounds, including a final one with the muzzle literally stuck into the pig's ear, to finish it off. I concluded that if we ever went to slaughter a pig again, I'd use a .30-30 or heavier rifle cartridge to do the job, or perhaps a 9mm pistol."

Enjoy your shotgun when the enemy is 100 yards away. Moran.

[link to blog.dogsbite.org]

Police Issue Bullet Bounces off Pit Bull's Head
Knock Triggers Attack
Cortez, CO - It was reported that after Macing one of two pit bulls that attacked a woman, deputies then used a "bite sleeve" to help guide the second dog away. When that failed, deputies shot at the pit bull, but the bullet "ricocheted" off its skull. It would be interesting to know how often a police issue bullet, shot from a police issue firearm, bounces off a dog's head instead of penetrating it. The unlucky victim, Nancy Thomas, suffered a fractured wrist and "a lot of stitches."


[link to www.cleveland.com]

Police bullet bounces off skull of murder suspect Daniel Tice
Saturday, January 10, 2009
Michael Sangiacomo
Plain Dealer Reporter

Lakemore- Police Chief Kenneth Ray said he never would have believed it if he hadn't seen it: A murder suspect was shot in the head by police, and the bullet bounced off the man's skull.

Wow, is your memory really that short?

Your post said "99% of people would never get in a situation where 'stopping power' would even be needed."

I was giving you specific examples where stopping power would be needed: hunting medium size came and dispatching intruders in your house.

Your example is retarded. You're not going likely to be going around sniping "enemies" from 100 yards. You seem to think that the most likely scenario is a crazed PCP addict who's charging you from halfway across a football field and you just have to be able to shoot him a couple times in the neck with your pea shooter before he gets to you.

Is this what they taught you in basic training? Did they teach you to be even stupider than you were when you arrived?

I don't know. At 5-7 yards, buckshot still patterns pretty tightly. About the size of a paper plate. Its easier to hit than with a handgun, but still requires aim.

And a sawed off shotgun will earn you an all-expenses-paid vacation at your local Federal prison for the next 10 years here in the US.

Look if your getting shot at it really doesnt matter what weapon is doing the shooting, your gonna stop and reconsider. Its not like your gonna say "oh its only a 22lr I'll be ok!" One of those rounds hit you in the belly it will bounce around 5 or 6 times before its done!

Generally speaking, I agree. The problem is that once drugs/alcohol enter the equation, as is often the case with home invasions, the perpetrator may lose their self-preservation instinct.

I don't think my state allows you to hunt deer or elk with a .22, you are required to have something larger.