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'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21926154
United States
11/17/2012 03:03 PM
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'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
Okay...

If we were on the gold standard.

You would have a 'bill'.

It would say,

"This bill is worth

(1) (pound) of (gold)"

As you can see, this bill has three pieces of information-

1. Quantity - 1
2. Unit - pound
3. Commodity - gold

If we were on a silver standard, you might have a bill that says,

"This bill is worth

(5) (ounces) of (silver)"

1. Quantity - 5
2. Unit - ounce
3. Commodity - silver

Right now in America, we have bills that should say,

"This is worth

(10) (dollars) of (money)"

1. Quantity - 10
2. Unit - dollar
3. Commodity - money

As you can see, the 'dollar' is a unit.

And 'money' is the commodity.

Thing is, even though it is a bill for a commodity called 'money', you can't go to a bank and redeem a dollar bill for 'money'.

Why? Because it is imaginary.



To understand this, think about two trekkies arguing over whether Vulcans can fly.

One says they can. The other says they can't.

The two settle the argument by going and getting the OFFICIAL, AUTHORIZED STAR TREK ALMANAC. On page 55 it says, "Vulcans cannot fly." The two trekkies are satisfied.

Now, even though the entire star trek universe is 'imaginary,' there is AN AUTHORIZED OFFICIAL ACCOUNT that they agree to abide by.


This is how our banking system now works. As long as there is AN AUTHORIZED, OFFICIAL ACCOUNT of who owns all of the 'money,' and how much there is, we all agree to abide by it.


So... when you think of 'money', visualize it as a vault somewhere, filled with a glowing green substance. When you use your debit card, or exchange a dollar bill, you are exchanging ownership of some of this 'money'. This is the only way to have money make 'sense'. Because a word without something you can visualize to go with it, is what we call 'nonsense'.


Why is this important? Because I am on the side of the people who want monetary reform and an end to the Fed. And I think this concept will get us further than simply saying money is debt, or only gold is real money.
db
User ID: 4248441
United States
11/17/2012 03:52 PM
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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
Well put OP.

Grock this: If there was no money everyone would have everything they need - not necessarily want - but need. We would all just share what we had or perish as a group.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1375041
United States
11/17/2012 04:16 PM
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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
The "commodity" is debt. We create money based on the idea that it creates a future obligation to pay it back.

For example you take out a loan for $1000 with a 5 year term. You use that money for your daily needs, and so to pay that loan back you take out another loan for $1000 at 5 years and use that money to pay off the first loan.

So now you have satisfied the first loan, but created a new obligation in order to do it. And most importantly you paid a little extra due to interest. So over time you will have to take out a little more for each loan.

It's that perpetual "revolving door" that gives our current monetary system value. The idea that you will pay money in the future.

The problem though is this. We are generating money through debt. We are currently AT LEAST 16 trillion dollars in debt. This is effectively unlimited debt. Which means we have unlimited money. "Unlimited" and "money" absolutely cannot work together. The entire point of money is to create scarcity. Once people around the world realize this, our currency will crash.
IssueX

User ID: 14348632
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11/17/2012 04:24 PM
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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
.....

k...

Last Edited by IssueX on 11/17/2012 04:26 PM
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1711362
Canada
11/17/2012 04:28 PM
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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
Well put OP.

Grock this: If there was no money everyone would have everything they need - not necessarily want - but need. We would all just share what we had or perish as a group.
 Quoting: db 4248441


Lol! You sound like a 12 year old hippy. Wars have been fought, lots and won even when there was no money and people bartered instead. The problem is the humans themselves. Until science progresses enough to take out the gene of violence from a man, we will keep having wars over one thing or another.

yoda
Anonymous Coward
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11/17/2012 04:49 PM
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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
It's an IOU, a promisary note you are supposed to get reimbursed for by the banks.
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11/17/2012 06:11 PM

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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
Money is the middle man between us and what we need.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. ~Arthur C. Clarke

Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. ~Mark Twain

He's a nut-bag! Just because the fucker's got a library card doesn't make him Yoda! ~David Mills ~ Se7en

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Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 21926154
United States
11/19/2012 06:14 AM
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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
The "commodity" is debt. We create money based on the idea that it creates a future obligation to pay it back.

For example you take out a loan for $1000 with a 5 year term. You use that money for your daily needs, and so to pay that loan back you take out another loan for $1000 at 5 years and use that money to pay off the first loan.

So now you have satisfied the first loan, but created a new obligation in order to do it. And most importantly you paid a little extra due to interest. So over time you will have to take out a little more for each loan.

It's that perpetual "revolving door" that gives our current monetary system value. The idea that you will pay money in the future.

The problem though is this. We are generating money through debt. We are currently AT LEAST 16 trillion dollars in debt. This is effectively unlimited debt. Which means we have unlimited money. "Unlimited" and "money" absolutely cannot work together. The entire point of money is to create scarcity. Once people around the world realize this, our currency will crash.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1375041


I agree with what you are saying. I'm simply emphasizing the need for a better definition of the word 'money'. Saying that debit is money is like saying that currency is money or gold is money.

If I owe you 'money,' that is a state we call debt.

But if I owe you a favor, that is also 'debt'.

So, as you can see... when we think of 'money,' we think of it as a thing. Different than the state of indebtedness.

I'm simply suggesting, that if you think of the word 'money' as an imaginary commodity, it is much easier to understand the entire financial system.

For example, if someone points at a house and says, "That house is worth one million pounds of gold." You can visualize one million pounds of gold pretty easily.

But if they point at a house and say, "That is worth one million dollars" That is hard to visualize. Most people visualize a stack of dollar bills. But a bill actually represents something else. A deed to a house is not a house, for example.

Anyway, it worked for me. But you only really feel the difference once you get into more high-concept areas of finance.

So, I thought I would share it on here, because I've gotten a lot of intriguing and fresh ideas from this site.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24433009
United States
11/19/2012 06:15 AM
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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
it's just numbers on a computer screen. What money purchased and built is more important than if the money collapses due to debt. Format and start fresh. Do it on a global scale. Who cares. Just make sure you are not the one holding cash when it happens.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27982991
Australia
11/19/2012 06:22 AM
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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
money has to have value and value is really in the mind of the individual.

its only through voluntary exchange in the market did society come up with a medium of exchange or what we know as money that had a value and where value can be stored.

quite simply money belongs in the market where it originated.

whats wrong with free people deciding what 'money' is going to be etc..?

im pretty sure if that happened, they would probably have gold and silver imo. thats a good start.

why do people have this idea that money has to decided upon and created by decree or through a kings law?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 21926154
United States
12/01/2012 04:15 PM
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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
money has to have value and value is really in the mind of the individual.

its only through voluntary exchange in the market did society come up with a medium of exchange or what we know as money that had a value and where value can be stored.

quite simply money belongs in the market where it originated.

whats wrong with free people deciding what 'money' is going to be etc..?

im pretty sure if that happened, they would probably have gold and silver imo. thats a good start.

why do people have this idea that money has to decided upon and created by decree or through a kings law?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27982991



you're talking about currency
Marl Karxx!
User ID: 26751869
United States
12/01/2012 07:44 PM
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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
Exactomundo!!

Money is only the
organizing power!

The
electro-motive force is labor!!
bill shitters 1.2

User ID: 19820209
United Kingdom
12/01/2012 07:48 PM

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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
Money is time only

If poor and ueducated. A 300,000 dollop house if nearly a whole working life for one person

If a time money controller 300,000 dollops is just a bonus cheque
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Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 21926154
United States
12/08/2012 03:26 PM
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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
Money is time only

If poor and ueducated. A 300,000 dollop house if nearly a whole working life for one person

If a time money controller 300,000 dollops is just a bonus cheque
 Quoting: bill shitters 1.2


i highly suspect you did not actually read the post...
ISO

User ID: 26727474
United States
12/08/2012 03:33 PM

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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
Exactomundo!!

Money is only the
organizing power!

The
electro-motive force is labor!!
 Quoting: Marl Karxx! 26751869


Money is a means of assigning levels of power to the general public. It controls the population and keeps it in check by limiting its power to purchase influence.

Those at the top don't need to work for "money". They just take it. You think the most powerful in the world don't just take billions in currency by entering numbers in banking servers? Of course they do.

Having to earn it is only for the general population. It is simply given to people with power to control the banking servers by entering numbers representing money that does not exist.
Hales
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12/08/2012 03:41 PM

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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
There will always be a group of people in any society that vote for "The Grass is Greener on the Other Side." In this case, you make reference to the group of people wanting to end the fed.

They hold all the imaginary chips and control the perception of who has all the money.

So it's "imaginary" — of course it is. Everything is. This is ALL mind, and interoperates through the mind.

We are literally walking through and exploring our own psyche in a sort-of-like psyche-space suit. Money then, represents something to your psyche, just like rocks, big rocks, small rocks, shiny rocks, etc., and represents shades and hues of infinity possibilities for expression.

Big money, small money, stollen money, dirty money, coin money, receipt money, up money, down money, wrickled up, laundry washed, portfolio, fiscal year, balance, return on.... etc., etc., all shades and hues of the psyche-based-idea.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 7125161
United States
12/08/2012 03:42 PM
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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
I call money .. paper handcuffs : P
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28569480
New Zealand
12/08/2012 03:44 PM
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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
Well put OP.

Grock this: If there was no money everyone would have everything they need - not necessarily want - but need. We would all just share what we had or perish as a group.
 Quoting: db 4248441


Lol! You sound like a 12 year old hippy. Wars have been fought, lots and won even when there was no money and people bartered instead. The problem is the humans themselves. Until science progresses enough to take out the gene of violence from a man, we will keep having wars over one thing or another.

yoda
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1711362


There has always been money, in one form or another, like barter, money is a medium of exchange.

We have the violence gene for a reason, its to stop tyrannical overlords, from starving us to death.

Now the average joe blow isnt violent toward other joe's, but we are all complicated in war mongering, as we sit by and watch in horror, at the us gubberment.

People dont start wars gubberment and kings and queens do.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 21926154
United States
12/08/2012 05:07 PM
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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
Well put OP.

Grock this: If there was no money everyone would have everything they need - not necessarily want - but need. We would all just share what we had or perish as a group.
 Quoting: db 4248441


Lol! You sound like a 12 year old hippy. Wars have been fought, lots and won even when there was no money and people bartered instead. The problem is the humans themselves. Until science progresses enough to take out the gene of violence from a man, we will keep having wars over one thing or another.

yoda
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1711362


There has always been money, in one form or another, like barter, money is a medium of exchange.

We have the violence gene for a reason, its to stop tyrannical overlords, from starving us to death.

Now the average joe blow isnt violent toward other joe's, but we are all complicated in war mongering, as we sit by and watch in horror, at the us gubberment.

People dont start wars gubberment and kings and queens do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28569480


I was trying to say...

currency = physical medium of exchange

money = imaginary commodity, used to back a paper currency

See what I'm saying? Using the words differently? So that more people can understand the financial system?
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 03:48 AM
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Re: 'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO
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