'money' is best thought of as an imaginary commodity IMO | |
db User ID: 4248441 United States 11/17/2012 03:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1375041 United States 11/17/2012 04:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The "commodity" is debt. We create money based on the idea that it creates a future obligation to pay it back. For example you take out a loan for $1000 with a 5 year term. You use that money for your daily needs, and so to pay that loan back you take out another loan for $1000 at 5 years and use that money to pay off the first loan. So now you have satisfied the first loan, but created a new obligation in order to do it. And most importantly you paid a little extra due to interest. So over time you will have to take out a little more for each loan. It's that perpetual "revolving door" that gives our current monetary system value. The idea that you will pay money in the future. The problem though is this. We are generating money through debt. We are currently AT LEAST 16 trillion dollars in debt. This is effectively unlimited debt. Which means we have unlimited money. "Unlimited" and "money" absolutely cannot work together. The entire point of money is to create scarcity. Once people around the world realize this, our currency will crash. |
IssueX User ID: 14348632 United States 11/17/2012 04:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1711362 Canada 11/17/2012 04:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Well put OP. Quoting: db 4248441 Grock this: If there was no money everyone would have everything they need - not necessarily want - but need. We would all just share what we had or perish as a group. Lol! You sound like a 12 year old hippy. Wars have been fought, lots and won even when there was no money and people bartered instead. The problem is the humans themselves. Until science progresses enough to take out the gene of violence from a man, we will keep having wars over one thing or another. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 24488287 United States 11/17/2012 04:49 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 21926154 United States 11/19/2012 06:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The "commodity" is debt. We create money based on the idea that it creates a future obligation to pay it back. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1375041 For example you take out a loan for $1000 with a 5 year term. You use that money for your daily needs, and so to pay that loan back you take out another loan for $1000 at 5 years and use that money to pay off the first loan. So now you have satisfied the first loan, but created a new obligation in order to do it. And most importantly you paid a little extra due to interest. So over time you will have to take out a little more for each loan. It's that perpetual "revolving door" that gives our current monetary system value. The idea that you will pay money in the future. The problem though is this. We are generating money through debt. We are currently AT LEAST 16 trillion dollars in debt. This is effectively unlimited debt. Which means we have unlimited money. "Unlimited" and "money" absolutely cannot work together. The entire point of money is to create scarcity. Once people around the world realize this, our currency will crash. I agree with what you are saying. I'm simply emphasizing the need for a better definition of the word 'money'. Saying that debit is money is like saying that currency is money or gold is money. If I owe you 'money,' that is a state we call debt. But if I owe you a favor, that is also 'debt'. So, as you can see... when we think of 'money,' we think of it as a thing. Different than the state of indebtedness. I'm simply suggesting, that if you think of the word 'money' as an imaginary commodity, it is much easier to understand the entire financial system. For example, if someone points at a house and says, "That house is worth one million pounds of gold." You can visualize one million pounds of gold pretty easily. But if they point at a house and say, "That is worth one million dollars" That is hard to visualize. Most people visualize a stack of dollar bills. But a bill actually represents something else. A deed to a house is not a house, for example. Anyway, it worked for me. But you only really feel the difference once you get into more high-concept areas of finance. So, I thought I would share it on here, because I've gotten a lot of intriguing and fresh ideas from this site. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 24433009 United States 11/19/2012 06:15 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | it's just numbers on a computer screen. What money purchased and built is more important than if the money collapses due to debt. Format and start fresh. Do it on a global scale. Who cares. Just make sure you are not the one holding cash when it happens. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 27982991 Australia 11/19/2012 06:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | money has to have value and value is really in the mind of the individual. its only through voluntary exchange in the market did society come up with a medium of exchange or what we know as money that had a value and where value can be stored. quite simply money belongs in the market where it originated. whats wrong with free people deciding what 'money' is going to be etc..? im pretty sure if that happened, they would probably have gold and silver imo. thats a good start. why do people have this idea that money has to decided upon and created by decree or through a kings law? |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 21926154 United States 12/01/2012 04:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | money has to have value and value is really in the mind of the individual. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27982991 its only through voluntary exchange in the market did society come up with a medium of exchange or what we know as money that had a value and where value can be stored. quite simply money belongs in the market where it originated. whats wrong with free people deciding what 'money' is going to be etc..? im pretty sure if that happened, they would probably have gold and silver imo. thats a good start. why do people have this idea that money has to decided upon and created by decree or through a kings law? you're talking about currency |
Marl Karxx! User ID: 26751869 United States 12/01/2012 07:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
bill shitters 1.2 User ID: 19820209 United Kingdom 12/01/2012 07:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Money is time only If poor and ueducated. A 300,000 dollop house if nearly a whole working life for one person If a time money controller 300,000 dollops is just a bonus cheque The retired thread killer Still the killa of threads we come in peace shoot to kill [link to au.youtube.com] I can not talk TO aliens but do listen to the anally probed |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 21926154 United States 12/08/2012 03:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
ISO User ID: 26727474 United States 12/08/2012 03:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Exactomundo!! Quoting: Marl Karxx! 26751869 Money is only the organizing power! The electro-motive force is labor!! Money is a means of assigning levels of power to the general public. It controls the population and keeps it in check by limiting its power to purchase influence. Those at the top don't need to work for "money". They just take it. You think the most powerful in the world don't just take billions in currency by entering numbers in banking servers? Of course they do. Having to earn it is only for the general population. It is simply given to people with power to control the banking servers by entering numbers representing money that does not exist. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 12354261 United States 12/08/2012 03:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | There will always be a group of people in any society that vote for "The Grass is Greener on the Other Side." In this case, you make reference to the group of people wanting to end the fed. They hold all the imaginary chips and control the perception of who has all the money. So it's "imaginary" — of course it is. Everything is. This is ALL mind, and interoperates through the mind. We are literally walking through and exploring our own psyche in a sort-of-like psyche-space suit. Money then, represents something to your psyche, just like rocks, big rocks, small rocks, shiny rocks, etc., and represents shades and hues of infinity possibilities for expression. Big money, small money, stollen money, dirty money, coin money, receipt money, up money, down money, wrickled up, laundry washed, portfolio, fiscal year, balance, return on.... etc., etc., all shades and hues of the psyche-based-idea. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 7125161 United States 12/08/2012 03:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 28569480 New Zealand 12/08/2012 03:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Well put OP. Quoting: db 4248441 Grock this: If there was no money everyone would have everything they need - not necessarily want - but need. We would all just share what we had or perish as a group. Lol! You sound like a 12 year old hippy. Wars have been fought, lots and won even when there was no money and people bartered instead. The problem is the humans themselves. Until science progresses enough to take out the gene of violence from a man, we will keep having wars over one thing or another. There has always been money, in one form or another, like barter, money is a medium of exchange. We have the violence gene for a reason, its to stop tyrannical overlords, from starving us to death. Now the average joe blow isnt violent toward other joe's, but we are all complicated in war mongering, as we sit by and watch in horror, at the us gubberment. People dont start wars gubberment and kings and queens do. |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 21926154 United States 12/08/2012 05:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Well put OP. Quoting: db 4248441 Grock this: If there was no money everyone would have everything they need - not necessarily want - but need. We would all just share what we had or perish as a group. Lol! You sound like a 12 year old hippy. Wars have been fought, lots and won even when there was no money and people bartered instead. The problem is the humans themselves. Until science progresses enough to take out the gene of violence from a man, we will keep having wars over one thing or another. There has always been money, in one form or another, like barter, money is a medium of exchange. We have the violence gene for a reason, its to stop tyrannical overlords, from starving us to death. Now the average joe blow isnt violent toward other joe's, but we are all complicated in war mongering, as we sit by and watch in horror, at the us gubberment. People dont start wars gubberment and kings and queens do. I was trying to say... currency = physical medium of exchange money = imaginary commodity, used to back a paper currency See what I'm saying? Using the words differently? So that more people can understand the financial system? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 33719584 United States 02/05/2013 03:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | [/youtube] [link to www.youtube.com] |