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I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.

 
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 09:27 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Imaginary? So you're insinuating 'love' does not exist then?

'Love' is a word used to describe a state of consciousness. A feeling, an emotion. Language is limiting so never could a single word be relied upon to sufficiently explain/describe a very complex array of emotions which can encompass such a conceptualization.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


The word love is an imaginary construct.

Your feelings are real and you choose to label them as "love".
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11/19/2012 09:29 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
So what you're really saying when you say God is "love" is that God is the feelings you are experiencing.
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11/19/2012 09:33 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Seems to me like we are trying to convey the same message.

But th difference is, is that God is everything and you only choose to relate God to the positive feelings without realizing negative feelings come from the same God.

God is everything and nothing all at once. God is good and evil and everything in between.
Iamtheone (OP)

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11/19/2012 09:34 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Welcome to Cradle of Hope!

G-d's Glory Cloud
This Cloud has appeared to Bro. Deckard three times during the course of his ministry.
These pictures have been examined by experts proving their authenticity. When the cloud appears, all manner of healings, miracles, salvation and deliverance comes to those who come in contact with the cloud. The cloud has demonstrated the glory of G-d to such an extent that many of other religions fall on their faces and receive Jesus as their L-rd and Savior.

[link to www.jewishprophet.com]


Prophetic Signs


Bro. Deckard is a born again Jew that G-d has called to the office of the Prophet. He has established over 160 churches around the world. G-d called him to be a Prophet sent to the nations and Bro. Deckard has prophesied to leaders and nations throughout the world. A few of the Prophesies that G-d gave to Bro. Deckard which have come to pass are as follows:



Prophesied the coming of the AIDs Epidemic 2 years before it was discovered. He told the people that the government would try to cover it up but in the end they would have to reveal it.
Prophesied that Prime Minister Sandiford of Barbados would be resigning from office.
Prophesied that the cold war would end and the Berlin Wall would be no more, 1 year before it took place. He also Prophesied that the threat during the cold war was not Russia; it would come from the Middle East.
Prophesied that the tornado activity in America would become greater than ever before known on record.
Prophesied that old diseases that the world thought had been eradicated would return and that they would become immune to our modern day medicines now being used.
Prophesied the flooding of the great Mississippi River 6 months before it occurred.
Prophesied the coming of the first war with Iraq [Desert Storm], and then prophesied that America would have to go back and finish the job at a later date.
Prophesied the beginning of the European Common Market and the struggle that they would have accomplishing the task.
Prophesied the events of 911 five years before it occurred.
Prophesied that the Islamic religion would become the fastest growing religion in the United States. This was in 1990, and today it is a known fact that this has come to pass.


Bro. Deckard has given signs to every nation that he has stepped foot upon that they might know G-d has sent a Prophet unto them:

Prophesied that the four year drought would be broken in Central Africa three days after he departed from the nation. This occurred exactly as G-d had spoken.
In the Philippines Prophesied that a volcano which had been dormant for 500 years would erupt as a sign that G-d had sent him there. This occurred two years later.
Prophesied in Guyana, South America that flood waters would flow into the drinking water and thousands would become ill. This occurred shortly thereafter.
Prophesied a great drought would come upon the land of Madagascar. This occurred three months later.
These are a few of the Prophecies that Bro. Deckard has been given by G-d.


Prophecy For America

This nation has become a stench in the nostrils of G-d and it is too late to turn His judgment back. G-d’s spirit will no longer strive with America and America is in for a long, hard fall. I realize this is not what people want to hear, but this is what the L-rd is saying.

America, prepare thyself to receive the judgments of your G-d. I gave thee of the fatness of the land and put strength within thee to overcome nations and kingdoms. But you now think that it was something that you have done within yourselves to have accomplished these things. Woe unto you and your mighty men of valor. For I the L-rd G-d shall bring to nought your strength and ability to overcome. It is I the L-rd G-d that does bring forth kings and nations and it is I that tears them down. You have become an abomination to me. Your priests and seers are as sleeping dogs that have refused to repent and seek me with a whole heart. They minister for their own gain. I the L-rd G-d will bring them to nought and turn them over to believe a lie. I will cause the storms, earthquakes, and floods to become stronger and more frequent. I will send a sword through the land and will cause families to be at odds one to another, killing and being killed. Tumult will be throughout the land and your streets will run with blood. Famine will I send in the land and you will watch as your children die from hunger. I tried over and over again to reason with you o’ nation, but you would have me not. We will now see as you have thought to have become your own god if you can deliver these people in their time of trouble. I will laugh at you and call you a foolish nation. You have forsaken the Living G-d and I have now forsaken you. You will know in the end that I am the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I was in the beginning and so shall I be in the end.

These are not things that are going to take place overnight. It will transpire very slowly as it already has; seemingly as though there has been nothing take place. This nation has become accustomed to all the storms, earthquakes, fires, floods, and everything else that the L-rd has sent to try to get the attention of the church and this nation.

The days that lie ahead for the United States and the world are going to become very trying times. The church is slipping deeper and deeper into a coma from which only a remnant will awaken. It is this remnant that will do the great exploits in these last days.

We must keep the faith and not be drawn into the snare that is now set for all mankind.

The End Time Messenger

June/July 1994



The Church desperately needs to experience once again the unadulterated power of G-d.

The church is once again being transitioned into position for the end-times.

Many of G-d’s saints will miss this transition because most of the church is asleep.





Cradle of Hope is a non-profit, religious organization.

We build churches, orphanages, hospitals and schools throughout the third world.

We hold crusades which see thousands brought to Christ

through the demonstration of the power of G-d’s Word through the Holy Ghost.

Statement of Faith

We of Cradle of Hope do believe that Jesus is the Son of Almighty G-d the Father. He came as the Messiah to become once and for all the perfect sacrifice as the Lamb of G-d. He died for all of mankind’s sin so that all that come to him would have eternal life. Three days after he died he was raised from the dead and now sits at the right hand side of the Father making intersession for all who have received him. We believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues separate from salvation. We believe in healing, deliverance, miracles, signs and wonders. We believe in the use of the five fold ministry and the function of each of these five offices within the church. We believe in the Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. We believe in the working of the spiritual gifts that Apostle Paul identified in I Corinthians the 12th chapter.

[link to www.jewishprophet.com]
 Quoting: SEE THE GLORY CLOUD!!! 1644660



Bill Cooper predicted 9\11. Nostradamus predicted the beheading of a King. Edgar Cayce predicted all kinds of crap. Mother Shipton had many prophecies of hers come true. The list of people who have prophecied things would wrap around the earth I'm sure.

Since I dont know all of the verses of the Bible, I apologize for the vagueness of this next statement...BUT, I notice a glaring inconsistancy in your logic of prophets.

Doesnt it say in the Bible that all seers of the future...prophets...are in fact inahbited by demons? God certainly would not ordain anyone a prophet like you say. Jesus is His only prophet, as well as his son. In fact, Im almost certain the Bible says the next prophet to come after Jesus' death would be that of the antichrist.
Perhaps it says neither of those things, but either way...that dude ordained himself a prophet which by all Biblical standards is inherently Evil.
Since I heard no big booming voice which proclaimed this man a prophet, Im guessing you just take his word for it? Why would I place my faith in some random guy when I cant even do it for the Man himself?

How utterly prideful and selfish to proclaim such poppycock when by doing so, you supposedly damn yourself in the process?

While I respect your beliefs on the subject as well as your enthusiasm, Im not quite ready to take the word of some guy who wears an $800 suit and has a 4 million dollar home in Barbados.

Google is your friend. Your guy seems about as straight and narrow as a lightning bolt. Sorry.
VENI VIDI VICI
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 09:35 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Do you realize that without hate, love couldn't exist?

If everyone was in a perpetual state of love and bliss, it wouldn't be labeled love and bliss. It would be the normal state of affairs.

It's only when put against a backdrop of hate and suffering that love has any meaning whatsoever.

Don't you understand. God can't be one without the other.
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 09:37 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Do you realize that without hate, love couldn't exist?

If everyone was in a perpetual state of love and bliss, it wouldn't be labeled love and bliss. It would be the normal state of affairs.

It's only when put against a backdrop of hate and suffering that love has any meaning whatsoever.

Don't you understand. God can't be one without the other.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9788321


THATS why he invented christianity..so the world could EXPERIENCE HATE in its darkest form.
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 09:39 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.


Not exactly. The world is a duality because man is a duality. Christianity can be used for good just as easily as evil. Just as a man can.

God made man in the image of himself. So by all reasoning, God is both good and evil.
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 09:41 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
When you come down to it and embrace both the goodness inside of you and fully accept the evil inside of you... the inner conflict ceases.

The walls of fear break down and you come to realize all of God's creation, both good and evil, light and dark are a perfect symphony of balance.
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 09:42 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
When people fight and argue amongst each other, they are really fighting against their own selves.
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 09:43 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
If people truly confident in what they believed, then they'd have no desire to defend their position.
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 09:45 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Free Food...? Manna occurs and is made by Nature. It falls from the Sky's when certain conditions are met. Alot of what nature does was seen as a miracle back then and even today by some because we do not completely understand how and why things work the way they do.

People have also understood nature as omens and because by coincidence because of the timing but still they are just surely coincidences.

How do you believe in god when you can't see him...?

Ask yourself this question. I'll ask the question actually.

Is there someone in your life that you love...? I hope you answer yes cause otherwise this does not work.

Is their someone in your life that you love...? Prove it !

As there is no possible way to prove your love there is no way to prove god exists either.

God exists only in our hearts. Our Minds and in our actions. Thats all he ever asked of us was to live in the light and in the love for each other.

God is the love we have and give to each other. Thats why you can't find god around every corner because hardly anybody loves anybody anymore.
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 09:46 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
When a person argues, what they are actually doing is convincing themselves of the very point they defend as truth.
ANHEDONIC

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11/19/2012 09:48 PM

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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Imaginary? So you're insinuating 'love' does not exist then?

'Love' is a word used to describe a state of consciousness. A feeling, an emotion. Language is limiting so never could a single word be relied upon to sufficiently explain/describe a very complex array of emotions which can encompass such a conceptualization.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


The word love is an imaginary construct.

Your feelings are real and you choose to label them as "love".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9788321


Is 'fear' and imaginary construct then?

You should re-think your use of the word 'imaginary'.

If feelings are real then why are words used to describe those feelings 'imaginary'????

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 10:05 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
"I dont really believe in anything I guess. Big Bang makes little sense to me, as does Christianity. Besides the many glaring contradictions in the Christian Bible, theres a larger theme I just dont understand and its bugging me because I WANT to believe in something."

There are no contradictions in the bible. Anything perceived as a contradiction is an interpretation issue from human error.

"Whether the Bible is meant to be taken literally or figuratively, theres many stories that can be proven such as the defeat of the Philistines, deaths of Kings, certain prophecies, and most of the people portrayed in the Bible can be proven to have lived from other sources. All besides Jesus of course, but I digress."

The holy scriptures are one of the most verifiable, archaeologically and historically sound collection of books that span thousands of years. Personally, I take it literally. That means understanding that parables, allegory, visions, dreams, actual events, are what they are.

"2000 years ago, men had Jesus walking the earth doing miracle after miracle. Abraham had his burning bush. The whole population of Israelites seen their God bring plague after plague against the Egyptians and then were fed Mana for 40 years in the desert.
Theres many stories of angels saving people like Lot and his daughter from destruction. You can include David in the lions den and God saving him. Include Shadrac, Mishac, and Abednigo as well since God saved them from being burned in an oven.
Youve got Moses runnin around getting water from rocks, turning staffs into snakes, parting the Red Sea...etc. "

Moses got the burning bush.

Anyway, the thing to realize is that the scriptures represent the very beginning of our material world (universe, earth, mankind, etc) to the death of Christ and the formation of the church. What you find in the bible is what is essential for mankind from that point forward.

The things that took place in the bible were deliberate and purposeful. That purpose has been fulfilled and the Holy, God-breathed inspiration given to man is sealed and complete.

Does God still perform miracles? you bet.
Is God living and omnipresent today? you bet.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
"It doesnt seem fair that back then, GOD made himself noticable. People actually SEEN His works and there was some semblance of PROOF that God really DOES exist. There was a reason for people to follow Jesus besides just faith.

I would think that God would make himself more available to a current population that has nothing to latch onto besides evil and bad things. People had a far easier life back then compared to now. Then, you herd some sheep, hunt, grow food, and watch a miracle or two. Now, we all work 25 hrs per day, take care of kids, worry about almost everything from GMO's killing us, to watching a world spiral out of control....all of this, and we're still supposed to make time for FAITH when it appears God has left us thousands of years ago."

Again, the purpose is complete. God has provided everything we need in His holy word and with His constant and never ending presence in our lives (if we want Him to be there). He is available. Ask for His help and He arrives.

People did NOT have it easier back then. It was a savage, carnal, barbaric, primitive existence. Besides, in the OT, Jesus had not come to earth yet. People still had to atone for their own sins and shortcomings. Horrible.


"Sadly, the vague fulfillment of random prophecies in Daniel and Revelations isnt enough for me to change my whole life and blindly follow a religion. It feels like if there were a God, he has abandoned US when WE need Him most and what God would do that??"

Vague fulfillment?? no.
The filfillment of every single prophecy in the scripture from page 1 to Revelation 22 is riddled with complex, detailed, important prophecies that have been systematically fulfilled as promised, and on time.

This is what makes scripture verified, sound and accurate. Unless one is a student of the word, they will not realize the miracle of scripture based on the prophecies alone.

God has abandoned no one.


"As a Christian, how does your church deal with this glaring difference between cultures of old, and the culture of now? How do you personally get beyond all of this? "

First of all, think of the church as the body of believers, not a building of wood and stone.

Second of all, there is nothing new on this earth.


Hope this helps. Looks like i got here late and you got lots of replies.

Here are a couple links you might find helpful:

Thread: The Truth about Hell - but the mainstream fundies can't accept it. and maybe you can't either

Thread: The Bible God: Cruel, Savage, Deranged, Evil, Barbaric, Intolerant, Insanely Jealous, Vengeful and Bloodthirsty?

Thread: All you need is FAITH, HOPE and LOVE to live pleasing to God. 7 times it's repeated. Prophecy, tongues & words of knowledge have passed away
Semper Fi
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11/19/2012 10:19 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Someone mentioned something about parables. I'm curious to know which ones do you refer to.
Semper Fi
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11/19/2012 10:23 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Can someone do me a favor and post this video for me it's not working for me.


[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 10:23 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Can someone do me a favor and post this video for me it's not working for me.


[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Semper Fi 6875630


Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 10:29 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Hi!
Let me try to help. Stay with me here and I’ll try to explain. To believe in God, the God of the Holy Bible (not any other book), Jesus is the key to unlocking exactly what you seem to be asking. Going to church does not get you brownie points into heaven. Your good deeds do not get you to heaven.

God is perfect in every way. He is holy, pure, righteous and just. Man is not. In fact God’s Word says that we are imperfect (we’re born that way) and we ourselves cannot get to him. Sounds like an impossible God, doesn’t it?

In fact, God says that if you break any of His laws it is as if you have broken them all. If you have told just one lie in your lifetime, you have broken His law. That’s one tough God!!!

But man is born imperfect and we tend to try to attain perfection ourselves in order to achieve some higher level of, I don’t know the word, conscience. A “religious experience” if you will. All other religions of the world require YOU to DO something to get to god. The God of the Holy Bible tells you there is NOTHING you can do yourself to get to him.

This is what trips most people up. Jesus.

Imagine if you were in court being charged with a crime right now. And you know you are about to be sentenced and fined for it. Imagine the kind of person who would stand up in the courtroom and say, “Your Honor, don’t send this man to jail. Whatever the penalty he owes for the crimes he committed, let me pay the amount necessary so that he can go free.”

Maybe you have known of a person or two in your life who has really stuck by you or offered an enormously generous and selfless gesture toward you because they were kindhearted and loved like that. You were probably very grateful and thought well of that person.

Jesus paid the penalty for your transgression of God’s law.

Many people are offended by this for many reasons, mostly, it seems, because they would rather believe that God is who they THINK he is. But in keeping that concept of God we break the first two commandments already. God tells us not to have any other gods, nor are we to make up an idol, which is what we do when we make him out to be who we want him to be. If we could do that he wouldn’t be much of a strong god. We would still be the ruler of our god, our concept of who we want him to be.

We need a god we can truly lean on. How can we make up our own god when we are constantly failing at living successfully in one way or another….

Here’s good news. God says that without faith it is impossible to please him. But to him who diligently seeks him, He rewards. That is Hebrews 11:6. That reward is an internal change from the inside out! God tells us that he renews our spirit…a true inward change that happens(here’s the first of many miracles!).

I could say to you right now “just trust in Jesus and ask him to come into your heart and forgive your sins and make you a new person” which is all you have to do. The problem is that it is not the words of the prayer that “saves” you.

It is a true inner leading to come to Christ.

There is a great website that you can use to download Bibles and commentary, etc. It is called e-sword.com
Maybe, if you feel led, ask God to lead you to know truth about him. Begin to read about him. Then wait for him, don’t rush him. He is God, we are not. Spend a moment with yourself to know whether you are honest in your prayer. When you feel led, right now, or later, the above simple little prayer to the Lord is all you need.

Talk to Him.

He really is there waiting for you to accept that he has already made a way for you to come to him!

And, in diligently searching His Word and studying, His Word explains what we think is contradictory. I don't know everything, for sure, no one does. But he hasn't failed me yet! Wow, talk about one epiphany after another sometimes when those questions are answered!
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 10:36 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
^^ "He is holy, pure, righteous and just."

How can God be any of those things without existing the antithesis of those things.

How can "holy" exist without the unholy to compare it to?

How can purity exist without impurity to judge it by?

How can righteousness exist without unrighteous to contrast?


My point is that without all of those things, God wouldn't exist in the way you say he does. And so, God must be both, or be none at all.
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 10:47 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
let me take a second to read through the entire thread to jump into conversation as properly as I know how. Be back...
chauchat

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11/19/2012 10:55 PM

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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Rev. 19:10

The spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus Christ. Study bible prophecy hard enough and long enough and you'l see patterns that communicate to you in ways you never imagined.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15232842


You cant prove something by taking a snippet from the exact book thats causing my issues. Faith does not depend on prohecy. Furthermore, prohecies in the Bible are open to interperetation since theres no exact times given.

Why werent the Moses Israelites expected to believe based on prohecy alone? They got to witness plagues and free food falling from the heavens. By your logic, God shouldnt have done that. Instead, he should've expected Moses to follow based on prohecy right?

At that time, the whole old testament had already happened. There was plenty of prohecy to fall on...namingly the Old flood and Genesis where it explains death and childbirth and the reasons for those things.
Why did God see fit to overwhelm one time period with miracles while leaving us to fend for ourselves on faith alone?

If God made us with free will then he also has to give us a CHOICE. Right now...there is only evil things in this world. I see no good being done on a grand scale, so what are we supposed to choose when given only one choice?

Idk, for me, I need some sort of proof beyond words from the exact book im on the fence about. Makes no sense to do so otherwise.
 Quoting: Iamtheone


Your observations about the world are seconded here:
1 John 5:19 We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one.

Signs and miracles are no longer needed
to prove that God has transferred his favor from fleshly Israel to the true Christian congregation. In a letter to his Christian companions, the apostle Paul clearly explained that miraculous gifts would eventually be done away with. The time would come when they would no longer be a means of identifying true Christians.—1 Corinthians 13:8-13.

Even calling on Jesus’ name would not prove that a person was a true Christian. In his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus foretold that he would reject certain ones who claimed: “Lord, Lord, did we not . . . work many miracles in your name?” For what reason would Jesus reject these miracle workers? He answers: “I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!” Evidently, some would work miracles in Christ’s name, but in fact they would be impostors.—Matthew 7:22, 23, The Jerusalem Bible.

The day before his death, Jesus reminded his apostles: “By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” It follows that performing miracles would not be the criterion forever. But all would have to prove themselves Christ’s disciples by their true love.—Matthew 7:18-20; John 13:34, 35.

It is essential to examine in the light of God’s Word the conduct of those claiming to be God’s servants.
Around the world today, who are making known God’s Word and who endeavor to live in harmony with it? Who are known worldwide for their unity? Who have no national, political, racial, or religious barriers among them? Who zealously preach the good news of God’s Kingdom? If as a sincere person you have more questions, Jehovah’s Witnesses will be happy to provide you with the facts you need in order to judge for yourself. Please feel free to contact the Witnesses in your neighborhood or at their local Kingdom Hall. They will help you place your trust in Jehovah and Jesus Christ, his Son, for “there is no salvation in anyone else.”—Acts 4:12.

AWAKE 3/8/89

[link to wol.jw.org]
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 11:26 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Hi! Iamtheone, reading all your posts and will try to help.
AC 1180, stay with me. I’ll do my best (I always find my best is never good enough but I do lean on Him, with the knowledge I do have, by faith). He grows us up as we go along with Him through life.

That’s a part of Grace.

We never come to an “all-knowing” because His Word truly is deep…layers upon layers of knowledge. Before we take Geometry we must go through Algebra 101, then 102. That’s how learning about God’s Word is. It is a lifetime of walking with Him, learning life lessons according to the Word of God! Remember, God does not change. He is the same today as he was 4000 years ago. He doesn't "change" on us and do a "new thing".

I do get excited about Him and want to talk, not because I’m supposed to “spread the gospel” but because He has proven Himself true time and time again and I want to tell!!!

What you asked about evil juxtaposed with good is truly complicated, even for a “seasoned” Christian because we are mere man with limited vocabulary. God’s Word exceeds our vocabulary at times when we try to explain Him. And, true, many Christians will go to church and then come home and won’t see their Bible again until the next Saturday when they do their Sunday School lesson! How much more we all would know if we'd give him more of our time.

That is fact, but we are to never judge. Only pray that God will keep us and grow us up! God’s Word says we are as children in His kingdom. And we are! He constantly has to put us “back on track” because we do battle between our human nature we are born with and the new spirit renewal that being born again in Christ gives to us. Constant battle! I think I’m now touching on what you are asking. Stay with me. Trying……

Iamtheone, yes before Christ, we had the “old testament time” and The Spirit of God actually came and spoke with man. The Bible is literal in that the “stories” happened…archaeology proves them time and time again as new discoveries are made. The Bible is also figurative, symbolic, etc. It truly is a masterpiece of every form of writing we can possible study in college. The “stories” did happen but they also have practical application to our lives today. We can learn a lot about our human nature by studying the lives of the prophets, for example. For, example, if you look closely at each person, we see they all had a human flaw as we all do, yet God came and actually wanted to spend time and speak with them, as he still does today! We can also learn a lot about who God is by how he interacts with them. He is the same today as He was then.
God doesn’t go against His Word to do a “new thing” which is happening a lot in churches today, sadly.

Allow me to post this and continue reading.
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2012 11:33 PM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Not exactly. The world is a duality because man is a duality. Christianity can be used for good just as easily as evil. Just as a man can.

God made man in the image of himself. So by all reasoning, God is both good and evil.





That is not accurate the duality came after Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden tree. Beforehand they were pure as God is.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 12:10 AM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
This ^^^ very well said, indeed!

As I said earlier, I do not identify myself as 'christian', however, in those words above, I find unity... a common ground upon which much may be built.

Kismet
 Quoting: Ted Nougat 1531479


So what you are saying is that you love the Love of God? Who doesn't?

The issue is that Love is not the only attribute of God. God Loves but not at the compromising of Justice and Righteousness. Jeremiah 9 expresses it nicely -

"23 Thus saith the Lord, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:

24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the Lord which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the Lord."

Many like the Jesus who talked about loving your neighbor, but don't like the Jesus who talked about dying to self, repenting of unbelief and sin, and the narrow path that FEW would find.

Then there's the Jesus that fed the multitudes and healed the sick, and we like that, but we don't really like the Jesus who calls us to a singular loyalty, who then offended the same people who followed Him looking for more food.

Unity and Common Ground? Jesus wasn't ambiguous about it. He said your devotion to Him should come first, to the extent that your affection for all others, including family, would appear as hate ("to love less than" per the Bible)

It's too bad as it sounds like you've met some "believers" who were unkind and overly judgmental. But it's not they you will have to stand before when you die. Do you think God's Judgment will be less severe? We either stand before Him clothed in Christ's Righteousness or our own.

To be clear, there are some who have driven people away, but there are others who present a false Gospel that calls a sinner to nothing but some higher degree of morality. That is precisely what the Gospel is NOT. No risen Savior is necessary for you to merely act more loving. Any number of religious and philosophical constructs offer that. Pick one. Unless you have the power to take your life back again and raise yourself after you die, I would suggest you get to know someone who does and who can. Jesus didn't come to make bad men good, He came to make dead men alive.


Well then, you must feel better after getting that off your chest, Mr. Nougat!!

At no point in this thread have I engaged anyone for the purpose of telling them what they should or should not believe, in fact, I've only engaged OP - I'd appreciate the same courtesy from you - I certainly don't require a lesson, from your perspective, as to what God's love is or isn't - thank you very much.

I do not subscribe to the theory that the bible is inspired by God, so throwing scripture at me is an entire waste of your time.

But I will tell you what I do subscribe to - we are eternal spirit, the same eternal spirit of All That Is/God. We are never separated, never have been, never will be. Duality in this dimension has been quite a ride, but it's been just that, a ride... and if you don't understand what that means, I'm not the person to spell it out for you.

This divide and conquer crap serves only to keep humanity down (in consciousness), and the attempts at instilling fear over some eternal damnation.... sorry, I don't buy any of it.

You say "it's too bad as it sounds like you've met some "believers" who were unkind and overly judgmental." The truth is that MOST of them have been this way - the moment you even hint that one of your definitions/beliefs isn't in line with theirs, they throw you right into hell's pit, without even waiting for God's judgement. Have you read GLP lately???

Do you honestly think that Creation exists for some jealous tyrant to judge and cast off bits and pieces of eternal spirit into hell's fire? Never mind the impossibility of it.... it's downright ridiculous.

You had your little rant and now I've responded. You have your beliefs, I have mine - let's not bother each other any further.

Kismet
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11/20/2012 12:11 AM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Sorry readers... I lost the end quote bracket above ^^^

Second half of that post is my reply to Mr. Nougat

Kismet
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11/20/2012 12:21 AM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Iamtheone said: “Back then there was what...perhaps around a hundred million people or less? Now we stand at the brink of 8 billion and we're more lost now than ever in history while God just sits there and expects 8 billion to follow Him with NO PROOF while he offered the 100 million people proof after proof and they were still over a millenia away from the supposed end times. As a Christian, how does your church deal with this glaring difference between cultures of old, and the culture of now? How do you personally get beyond all of this?”

Yes, you are right. Truly, as according to His Word, we are experiencing darkness getting darker in these days. It is becoming more difficult to see the “light” and “truth” of God in a world that rejects Him, or even in many churches that try to make Him do “a new thing”, or tries to make Him fit their mold of what we think He should be like. If you hold on to one truth about Him, it is that He is ALWAYS the same…reliable just like that!

He’s not doing a new kind of religion. We must make sure to focus on His love and forgiveness and His power to walk out the Christian life in us, not on legalism, which is attempting to “be good at” being a Christian. Heavy burdens and condemnation and judgment of ourselves and others when we do that. Not to look at self, but look to Him.

“Seek and ye shall find” sounds like I could simply say that and there’s your answer. But we don’t even know where to start to find Him. Even when we open the Bible, man that is a big book. Where to start? I did suggest that in my first post.

One of the first truths is seeking. It only starts with reading about Him. Many years ago, in Jesus’ time, The Word was written on scrolls and no one had a book. So we are told that faith in the Lord comes by hearing the Word of God. Now we also read. Years ago, I didn’t know where to start so I started with Genesis 1 and I wanted to know, “So, what did God do?” and “What did God say?” I must have went through almost the whole Bible (with a magnifying glass because the writing was so small!:-)) Then, accidentally, or by providence, my Bible slipped out of my hands and as I caught it, it opened to the New Testament scripture that was written in red. Jesus said, “If you have seen me you have seen the Father.” So, then I began to read the red letters starting in Matthew.

Iamtheone said: “Why weren’t Moses and the Israelites expected to believe based on prophecy alone? They got to witness plagues and free food falling from the heavens. By your logic, God shouldn’t have done that. Instead, he should've expected Moses to follow based on prophecy right?”

Free food! Life is just becoming too difficult now and you are right. Darkness, evil, etc. Many people have lost jobs and can’t buy food, not to mention losing mortgages or can’t pay rent. Something to save us ought to come down from Heaven.

You are also right about Moses. God did expect Moses to follow based on prophecy. And he did. Moses then gave us those prophecies, along with so much more. Moses said that there was one coming who was greater than he was. This story still goes back to Jesus! The prophets spoke of the messiah who was to come and this faith in the coming messiah was counted unto them for righteousness. We learn this in the New Testament in the book Hebrews.

But what about all those miracles? I sure don’t want to give you a really cliché answer but he still does do them, only now we don’t need a prophet figure to perform them for us.

God wants to do them with you on a more personal level through a relationship with Him as you trust in Jesus as Lord over your life. When we experience what He does for us, we know the miracles and everything, but how to share in a world that just won’t believe? In many cases we try to tell but our words are so small and He is so grand! So many of us as Christians have experienced healing, that new car, etc, just at the right moment at the right time in a way that can’t be explained.

Some people say you have to have a LOT of faith. Jesus said all you need is faith the size of a mustard seed(which is a VERY SMALL seed!) Actually, he also said your faith in Him is given to you by Him. He gives you the faith to believe (another hidden miracle).
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 12:23 AM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Excellent thread OP...but sadly, it's wasted on the christians.
The cannot give you the answer you require. Why not? Simply because their belief and faith is something which trancends reason and logic.
They are fully aware that their god no longer behaves as he did in the days of the OT. He decided to change his modus operandi because he sent his son and that should be enough!
Christians HAVE to have faith because there is no other way for an intelligent and otherwise rational human being to assimilate what is for all intents
And purposes a fantasy and a fiction.
I was a christian a long, long time ago but couldn't continue on that intellectually devoid journey.
Religion is for the lazy, the inept and the frightened.
Without the 'fear factor' there would be no christians...
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11/20/2012 12:25 AM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Excellent thread OP...but sadly, it's wasted on the christians.
The cannot give you the answer you require. Why not? Simply because their belief and faith is something which trancends reason and logic.
They are fully aware that their god no longer behaves as he did in the days of the OT. He decided to change his modus operandi because he sent his son and that should be enough!
Christians HAVE to have faith because there is no other way for an intelligent and otherwise rational human being to assimilate what is for all intents
And purposes a fantasy and a fiction.
I was a christian a long, long time ago but couldn't continue on that intellectually devoid journey.
Religion is for the lazy, the inept and the frightened.
Without the 'fear factor' there would be no christians...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11321919


rubbish.

no wait, you are British, so...

sod.
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11/20/2012 12:45 AM
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Re: I really want a Christian to answer this...not a troll thread.
Iamtheone wrote: "The Dead Sea Scrolls are the oldest known works by a Christian author found intact TO DATE. Its indisputable.

Out of all 800 found, Jesus' name isnt mentioned once. That seems rather strange seein as the books range from 150 BC to 67 AD. You'd think the person central to the religion would have gotten a nod or two huh?

An even more important question is why are you using a book that was ripped to shreds by a king who lived a few hundred years ago instead of books found daring to the exact time, written by obvious Christians due to the inclusion of hand written Old Testaments??"

I do use KJV but also Jewish Publication Society for old testament comparison and the Amplified. I'm thankful he only commissioned to have it written and didn't actually have the pen in his hand. He did have a few demands, didn't he? I do wish all of God's names had been left untouched. Each of His names give us insight on who He is.

I see you know a bit about the Dead Sea Scrolls. Do you know anything about this guy: Robert Eisenman, Professor of Middle East Religions and Archaeology and Director of the Institute for the Study of Judeo-Christian Origins at California State University, Long Beach; and Visiting Senior Member of Linacre College, Oxford University?

It was my understanding that he did study the Dead Sea Scrolls and saw reference to a then-current messiah? Can you tell me what you know about Eisenman?

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