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I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now

 
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 05:58 AM
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I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
A human being is nothing but a bunch of symbiotic relationships between single celled organisms.

These single celled organisms trade information by exchanging 'viruses'

When there is a major change to the environment, the bacteriological landscape changes. So if tomorrow, Earth's atmosphere became methane, then methane eating bacteria would grow rapidly and take over.

These bacteria would create viruses, that would infect any higher level 'organisms' to then be able to 'eat methane'

We would view this as a 'mutation' but there would be nothing 'random' about it.

So a major change in the environment, creates intelligent cascading changes in the biology of the ecosystem.

Simple as that.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 06:07 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
How about this idea. Every form, has a thought, the thought is the template for the form to instantiate.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/20/2012 06:09 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
How about this idea. Every form, has a thought, the thought is the template for the form to instantiate.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11171736


IMO, every thought is a form

I mean, I just had to face facts. If you hit someone in the head with a hammer, (changing the form of their brain), you will have changed their 'thoughts'
aquamah

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11/20/2012 06:09 AM

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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
i.. uhhh.. this subject bigger than my arabic brain, cant understand
scratching
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 06:10 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
Words hold the key to life and death.

-----------------------------------

The biggest problem with evolution is Mans apparent head start over other species.

In a car/horse race.

One doesn't leave the start gate and gain a massive head start while everyone else waits.

Evolution is a great idea, the idea all things build like a pyramid too bad this isnt the case on Earth.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 06:13 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
How about this idea. Every form, has a thought, the thought is the template for the form to instantiate.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11171736


IMO, every thought is a form

I mean, I just had to face facts. If you hit someone in the head with a hammer, (changing the form of their brain), you will have changed their 'thoughts'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154


yes every thought is a form, yet different in nature to the kind of forms you talk about in your evolution theory, which only touches on the physical level of forms, so that was the kind of form I was referring to, a physical form, or a form defined by the physics of these three dimensions.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 06:16 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
How about this idea. Every form, has a thought, the thought is the template for the form to instantiate.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11171736


IMO, every thought is a form

I mean, I just had to face facts. If you hit someone in the head with a hammer, (changing the form of their brain), you will have changed their 'thoughts'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154


yes every thought is a form, yet different in nature to the kind of forms you talk about in your evolution theory, which only touches on the physical level of forms, so that was the kind of form I was referring to, a physical form, or a form defined by the physics of these three dimensions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11171736


dimension is speculation at best.

math is just a medium of understanding.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 06:16 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
Not strictly how evolution works, but there is scope for the symbiosis part.

Mitochondria and Chloroplasts show signs of being bacterial in nature, double walled, own separate DNA... but whats freaky is they are now constituent parts of cells (organelles - the organs of the cell ) in their respective organisms.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 06:18 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
How about this idea. Every form, has a thought, the thought is the template for the form to instantiate.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11171736


IMO, every thought is a form

I mean, I just had to face facts. If you hit someone in the head with a hammer, (changing the form of their brain), you will have changed their 'thoughts'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154


yes every thought is a form, yet different in nature to the kind of forms you talk about in your evolution theory, which only touches on the physical level of forms, so that was the kind of form I was referring to, a physical form, or a form defined by the physics of these three dimensions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11171736


dimension is speculation at best.

math is just a medium of understanding.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11061563


yes, but how else would you like to define the difference in nature between a thought and, say, a plant? in everyday language.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 06:20 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
How about this idea. Every form, has a thought, the thought is the template for the form to instantiate.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11171736


IMO, every thought is a form

I mean, I just had to face facts. If you hit someone in the head with a hammer, (changing the form of their brain), you will have changed their 'thoughts'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154


yes every thought is a form, yet different in nature to the kind of forms you talk about in your evolution theory, which only touches on the physical level of forms, so that was the kind of form I was referring to, a physical form, or a form defined by the physics of these three dimensions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11171736


dimension is speculation at best.

math is just a medium of understanding.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11061563


The op is discussing the processes operating at a level measurable by what we commonly know as these three dimensions.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/20/2012 06:21 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
Not strictly how evolution works, but there is scope for the symbiosis part.

Mitochondria and Chloroplasts show signs of being bacterial in nature, double walled, own separate DNA... but whats freaky is they are now constituent parts of cells (organelles - the organs of the cell ) in their respective organisms.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28133474


I consider most of the classifications for single celled organisms to be pretty loose.

If you study something as simple as 'yeast' you'll find they can't really classify it, as it shifts back and forth, depending on the environment.

My mother was given Cipro for a bad infection. It killed far too much of the 'good' bacteria in her body.

I ended up studying yeast and probiotics for about a year trying to find a cure for her. And I discovered that when you get right down to it... micro biology is kind of... they pretend to know a lot more than they do.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 06:22 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
...


IMO, every thought is a form

I mean, I just had to face facts. If you hit someone in the head with a hammer, (changing the form of their brain), you will have changed their 'thoughts'
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154


yes every thought is a form, yet different in nature to the kind of forms you talk about in your evolution theory, which only touches on the physical level of forms, so that was the kind of form I was referring to, a physical form, or a form defined by the physics of these three dimensions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11171736


dimension is speculation at best.

math is just a medium of understanding.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11061563


yes, but how else would you like to define the difference in nature between a thought and, say, a plant? in everyday language.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11171736


Biology/chemistry and math/physics are separate.

Life doesn't need a dimension or point to exist.

This is under the assumption things are constant.

The only thing constant is this universe. Even then that's questionable at best.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 06:23 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
However, the exact influence that viruses have on host DNA is not well known, yet speculated that a large majority of DNA and even mutation could be the result of virus interaction, not just in bacteria and single celled organisms, but indeed in higher organisms.

There was and still is often talk of JUNK DNA and the like, but this is not strictly true, as science advances we learn more and more.

There is a lot of DNA in many animals that appears to do nothing, sometimes as much as 95%, but it has been proven to act in other ways such as redundancy, protection from fatal mutations.

You should read up on mobile genetic elements, introns exons, regulation of protein coding sequences and pseudogenes.
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
11/20/2012 06:24 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
Not strictly how evolution works, but there is scope for the symbiosis part.

Mitochondria and Chloroplasts show signs of being bacterial in nature, double walled, own separate DNA... but whats freaky is they are now constituent parts of cells (organelles - the organs of the cell ) in their respective organisms.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28133474


I consider most of the classifications for single celled organisms to be pretty loose.

If you study something as simple as 'yeast' you'll find they can't really classify it, as it shifts back and forth, depending on the environment.

My mother was given Cipro for a bad infection. It killed far too much of the 'good' bacteria in her body.

I ended up studying yeast and probiotics for about a year trying to find a cure for her. And I discovered that when you get right down to it... micro biology is kind of... they pretend to know a lot more than they do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154


Like how light is a wave and particle.

As a scientist we are more of alchemists/wizards then anything.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/20/2012 06:29 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
In my post I said that evolution was 'intelligent'

Let me clarify...


1.
A person is a bunch of single celled organisms working together.

When you make a decision to eat an unhealthy hamburger, it is because the cells in your stomach and the part of the brain that processes hunger have overwhelmed the other pieces of your brain.

Because all of these cells are working together as one organism, we call this 'intelligence.' A single result of many individual processes.

2. However, if you consider each cell individually, then you might say that it is an unintelligent chemical reaction responding to simple stimulus and response.

Likewise, if you look at the actions of individuals in a society it would seem random and chaotic. Unrelated decisions and actions.

3. However, if you look at a society as a single organism, then you would describe a society as 'an intelligent entity'
Since we cannot identify what makes a bunch of single celled organisms produce consciousness, then we cannot rule out that a society is conscious to some extent.

4. When I said that the type of evolution I described was 'intelligent' I was referring to the fact that the entire ecosystem, viewed as a single entity, acts intelligently to adapt to its environment and survive.

Just thought I'd clear that up.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 06:29 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
It would not surprise me, especially after watching this video. Maybe small doesn't necessarily mean devoid of intelligence.

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 11061563
Canada
11/20/2012 06:30 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
However, the exact influence that viruses have on host DNA is not well known, yet speculated that a large majority of DNA and even mutation could be the result of virus interaction, not just in bacteria and single celled organisms, but indeed in higher organisms.

There was and still is often talk of JUNK DNA and the like, but this is not strictly true, as science advances we learn more and more.

There is a lot of DNA in many animals that appears to do nothing, sometimes as much as 95%, but it has been proven to act in other ways such as redundancy, protection from fatal mutations.

You should read up on mobile genetic elements, introns exons, regulation of protein coding sequences and pseudogenes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28133474


If you dig and dig and dig you will still find 2 parts equal on an argument.

One is potential and the other is a biological fail safe from corruption.

We can manipulate that, but that is intelligent design playing a part in the course of nature (man playing god).

Does intelligence exist outside math or is it spontaneous? I like to think life in itself is intelligent and to label it with (philosophy,math,chemistry) would be to grossly understate it.

But hey we gotta start somewhere.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 06:30 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
...


yes every thought is a form, yet different in nature to the kind of forms you talk about in your evolution theory, which only touches on the physical level of forms, so that was the kind of form I was referring to, a physical form, or a form defined by the physics of these three dimensions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11171736


dimension is speculation at best.

math is just a medium of understanding.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11061563


yes, but how else would you like to define the difference in nature between a thought and, say, a plant? in everyday language.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11171736


Biology/chemistry and math/physics are separate.

Life doesn't need a dimension or point to exist.

This is under the assumption things are constant.

The only thing constant is this universe. Even then that's questionable at best.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11061563


Biology/chemistry and math/physics are separate only because we do not understand them enough.

>> Life doesn't need a dimension or point to exist.
Of course not, I do not believe that in my loose use of an everyday concept (3D) in order to find an exit door from solely 'physical reality' concepts (more loose talk) that I perpetuated a construct through which all life exists.

>> This is under the assumption things are constant.
see previous answer

>> The only thing constant is this universe. Even then that's questionable at best.

It's not constant, it's a dynamic thought form, a consensus reality.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 11061563
Canada
11/20/2012 06:31 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
In my post I said that evolution was 'intelligent'

Let me clarify...


1.
A person is a bunch of single celled organisms working together.

When you make a decision to eat an unhealthy hamburger, it is because the cells in your stomach and the part of the brain that processes hunger have overwhelmed the other pieces of your brain.

Because all of these cells are working together as one organism, we call this 'intelligence.' A single result of many individual processes.

2. However, if you consider each cell individually, then you might say that it is an unintelligent chemical reaction responding to simple stimulus and response.

Likewise, if you look at the actions of individuals in a society it would seem random and chaotic. Unrelated decisions and actions.

3. However, if you look at a society as a single organism, then you would describe a society as 'an intelligent entity'
Since we cannot identify what makes a bunch of single celled organisms produce consciousness, then we cannot rule out that a society is conscious to some extent.

4. When I said that the type of evolution I described was 'intelligent' I was referring to the fact that the entire ecosystem, viewed as a single entity, acts intelligently to adapt to its environment and survive.

Just thought I'd clear that up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154


hmmm okay I agree. The word evolution is strong with many negative and positive connotations.

I use growth.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 06:33 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
...


dimension is speculation at best.

math is just a medium of understanding.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11061563


yes, but how else would you like to define the difference in nature between a thought and, say, a plant? in everyday language.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11171736


Biology/chemistry and math/physics are separate.

Life doesn't need a dimension or point to exist.

This is under the assumption things are constant.

The only thing constant is this universe. Even then that's questionable at best.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11061563


Biology/chemistry and math/physics are separate only because we do not understand them enough.

>> Life doesn't need a dimension or point to exist.
Of course not, I do not believe that in my loose use of an everyday concept (3D) in order to find an exit door from solely 'physical reality' concepts (more loose talk) that I perpetuated a construct through which all life exists.

>> This is under the assumption things are constant.
see previous answer

>> The only thing constant is this universe. Even then that's questionable at best.

It's not constant, it's a dynamic thought form, a consensus reality.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11171736


Yep. I came to the same conclusions on 2c-I.

I was at a party and I would witness all the interactions at once but I couldn't find one word to sum it all up.

If such a word existed though..
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 06:34 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
I consider most of the classifications for single celled organisms to be pretty loose.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154


Maybe, but the trees are constantly being revised.

They often classed micro organisms based on morphological characterists or metabolic characterists but its not that simple once you start mapping the DNA.

You find species that are vastly different in behaviour and morphology but very closly related.

Some micro organisms they thought were funghi are bacteria and so forth.

If you study something as simple as 'yeast' you'll find they can't really classify it, as it shifts back and forth, depending on the environment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154


You would have to give me an example of what you mean, because it is my understanding that a few species of yeast are very well understood, we probably know more about them than people in many ways, but im not personally well versed with yeast apart from Saccharomyces and Candida species.

My mother was given Cipro for a bad infection. It killed far too much of the 'good' bacteria in her body.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154


Cipro is a broad spectrum antibiotic and it will do that, its prescribed for a bad infection that coul progress to life threatening.

I ended up studying yeast and probiotics for about a year trying to find a cure for her. And I discovered that when you get right down to it... micro biology is kind of... they pretend to know a lot more than they do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154


Well the cipro could very well have wiped out a lot of the good bacteria.

Microbiology is a broad field, doctors often dont know enough about it other than what an infection looks like, how to treat it and what happens if it isnt treated and the experts usually study just one species or half a dozen in enough detail.

Doctors dont have enough time to study microbiology in depth enough to be experts, they only need to know enough to diagnose and treat pathogens, microbiologists often take 20 years to become experts in their little niche.

Treating human disease is not black and white or straightforward, there are other factors such as enzymatic breakdown of medications, metabolic rate, immune response etc.
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
11/20/2012 06:45 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
I concur with the lack of random.
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
11/20/2012 06:56 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
Photosynthesis is an example of maths/physics/chemistry and biology working together in harmony to sustain every living thing on Earth
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 06:56 AM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
I concur with the lack of random.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11061563


directed evolution? by what?
Anonymous Coward
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11/23/2012 05:26 PM
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Re: I just figured out evolution... seems so obvious now
A human being is nothing but a bunch of symbiotic relationships between single celled organisms.

These single celled organisms trade information by exchanging 'viruses'

When there is a major change to the environment, the bacteriological landscape changes. So if tomorrow, Earth's atmosphere became methane, then methane eating bacteria would grow rapidly and take over.

These bacteria would create viruses, that would infect any higher level 'organisms' to then be able to 'eat methane'

We would view this as a 'mutation' but there would be nothing 'random' about it.

So a major change in the environment, creates intelligent cascading changes in the biology of the ecosystem.

Simple as that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21926154


Forced Methane metabolism would probably have dire consequences for many organisms. Their metabolic pathways are usually very complex, and altering one link can really screw things up, by say, taking away energy for more important production, or causing excess buildups of molecules....

Also, these major virus outbreaks would have to be occurring constantly to promote enough variation for populations to work with.

So, your hypothesis doesn't make much sense.

But then again, Evolution is complete BS, so I wouldn't worry about it.