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There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)

 
waterman

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11/20/2012 03:48 PM

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There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
People read Isaiah, Jeremiah and the prophets and see the falling away of Israel and the Gods judgement come to them. Even if they do relate it to modern times. They are under the impression it is for tiny little geographical Israel which is only made of 2 of the original 12 tribes. People think the war of Gog and Magog is going to come to physical geographical Israel, but that war is not for the 2 tribes of geographical Israel it is for spiritual Israel the lost 10 tribes, the ones that are in the land of milk and honey(united states) where God said he would place the children of Israel, Gods hidden Israel: Psalm 83:
2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people,
and consulted against thy hidden ones.
4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
How is Israel hidden if we know where Israel is.....it is hidden because it is spiritual Israel....Bible pattern(physical first spiritual second)

If satan can cut off either house of Israel, the lost 10 tribes(united states) or the 2 tribes that are geographical Israel then the name of Israel will be no more. Ezek 37 shows they are rejoined in the end by Gods last servantIsrael is in two houses right now. 2 tribes make up geographical Israel(physical Israel) and 10 tribes(spiritual Israel) are in the land of milk and honey(united states), where God said He would send he children of Israel. The goal is to get the 10 spiritual tribes to turn their heart back to God, as they have fallen away. The other goal is to get the other 2 tribes to stop being physical tribes and become spiritual tribes like the other 10. To become part of the spiritual tribe you accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, repent, and turn from sin. you become a temple of God and as more and more accept this truth the temple of God gets bigger and bigger. They are all still physical people, but they become the spiritual temple of God by accepting Jesus.

2nd corinthians 6:16:
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The beast and the false prophet build the physical temple but the two witnesses build the spiritual temple(tell people about Jesus is building the temple). Those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, repent, and turn from sin are the temple of God

Last Edited by waterman on 11/20/2012 03:49 PM
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waterman (OP)

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11/20/2012 03:58 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
Next we are dealing the the Daughter of Zion(united states spiritual Israel).....because when God is speaking of geographical Israel it is "son" not daughter:
Exodus 4:22:And you shall say unto Pharaoh, Thus says the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
NOTICE Jeremiah 6:

2I will destroy the Daughter of Zion,
so beautiful and delicate.
3Shepherds with their flocks will come against her;
they will pitch their tents around her,
each tending his own portion.”
4“Prepare for battle against her!
Arise, let us attack at noon!
But, alas, the daylight is fading,
and the shadows of evening grow long.
5So arise, let us attack at night
and destroy her fortresses!”

and it goes on again about the daughter and the enemy coming from the north:
22This is what the Lord says:
“Look, an army is coming
from the land of the north;

a great nation is being stirred up
from the ends of the earth.
23They are armed with bow and spear;
they are cruel and show no mercy.
They sound like the roaring sea
as they ride on their horses;
they come like men in battle formation
to attack you, daughter of zion.”
Heed the warning or endure the mourning
waterman (OP)

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11/20/2012 04:00 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
Next we are dealing the the Daughter of Zion(united states spiritual Israel).....because when God is speaking of geographical Israel it is "son" not daughter:
Exodus 4:22:And you shall say unto Pharaoh, Thus says the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
NOTICE Jeremiah 6:

2I will destroy the Daughter of Zion,
so beautiful and delicate.
3Shepherds with their flocks will come against her;
they will pitch their tents around her,
each tending his own portion.”
4“Prepare for battle against her!
Arise, let us attack at noon!
But, alas, the daylight is fading,
and the shadows of evening grow long.
5So arise, let us attack at night
and destroy her fortresses!”

and it goes on again about the daughter and the enemy coming from the north:
22This is what the Lord says:
“Look, an army is coming
from the land of the north;

a great nation is being stirred up
from the ends of the earth.
23They are armed with bow and spear;
they are cruel and show no mercy.
They sound like the roaring sea
as they ride on their horses;
they come like men in battle formation
to attack you, daughter of zion.”
 Quoting: waterman


So we see the enemy comes from the north and attacks the daughter of zion(united states) and not the son(geographical Israel firstborn son)..lets look at ezek 38:
2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.

10 Thus saith the Lord God; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

11 And thou shalt say, I will go "up"(you dont go up to attack an enemy coming from the north unless you are going up over canada and coming down to the united states) to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely(united states)..(Israel is at war all the time), all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates(free society united states),
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DPS

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11/20/2012 04:01 PM
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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
israel is israel, both physically and spiritualy.

the shatia stone has not moved an inch since the formation of the world
waterman (OP)

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11/20/2012 04:05 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
israel is israel, both physically and spiritualy.

the shatia stone has not moved an inch since the formation of the world
 Quoting: DPS


After the reign of solomon Israel split into 2 kingdoms. The northern kingdom(Isreal) and the southern kingdom(Judah). The assyrians attacked the northern 10 tribes that made up the northern kingdom(those tribes were never heard from again. 135 years later the southern kingdom (Judah and benjamin) are attacked by the babylonians and taken into captivity, but 70 years later the southern kingdom(judah and benjamin regrouped) and are the geographical Israel of today
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waterman (OP)

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11/20/2012 04:13 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
Now Isaiah chapter 7 is physical Israel and they stomp Palestine before they reach the age of 66 and the scripture states...In 2013 they will be 65 Israel born May 14, 1948. Here is the scripture that says within 65 year it will happen:

1 Now it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin king of Syria and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up to Jerusalem to make war against it, but could not prevail against it. 2 And it was told to the house of David, saying, “Syria’s forces are deployed in Ephraim.” So his heart and the heart of his people were moved as the trees of the woods are moved with the wind.

3 Then the Lord said to Isaiah, “Go out now to meet Ahaz, you and Shear-Jashub your son, at the end of the aqueduct from the upper pool, on the highway to the Fuller’s Field, 4 and say to him: ‘Take heed, and be quiet; do not fear or be fainthearted for these two stubs of smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin and Syria, and the son of Remaliah. 5 Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah have plotted evil against you, saying, 6 “Let us go up against Judah and trouble it, and let us make a gap in its wall for ourselves, and set a king over them, the son of Tabel”—

7 thus says the Lord God:
“It shall not stand,
Nor shall it come to pass.
8 For the head of Syria is Damascus,
And the head of Damascus is Rezin.
Within sixty-five years Ephraim will be broken,
So that it will not be a people.
9 The head of Ephraim is Samaria,
And the head of Samaria is Remaliah’s son.
If you will not believe,
Surely you shall not be established.”’”

17 The Lord will bring the king of Assyria upon you and your people and your father’s house—days that have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah.”
 Quoting: Isaiah 7


This prophecy will take place when Syria will join forces with Samaria to fight against Judah.

Now who are the modern day Samaritans/Samaria who will ally themselves with Syria to fight Judah?

The modern day Samaritans are the Palestinians!
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waterman (OP)

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11/20/2012 04:30 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
judahlion
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waterman (OP)

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11/20/2012 04:57 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
Now Isaiah chapter 7 is physical Israel and they stomp Palestine before they reach the age of 66 and the scripture states...In 2013 they will be 65 Israel born May 14, 1948. Here is the scripture that says within 65 year it will happen:

1 Now it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin king of Syria and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up to Jerusalem to make war against it, but could not prevail against it. 2 And it was told to the house of David, saying, “Syria’s forces are deployed in Ephraim.” So his heart and the heart of his people were moved as the trees of the woods are moved with the wind.

3 Then the Lord said to Isaiah, “Go out now to meet Ahaz, you and Shear-Jashub your son, at the end of the aqueduct from the upper pool, on the highway to the Fuller’s Field, 4 and say to him: ‘Take heed, and be quiet; do not fear or be fainthearted for these two stubs of smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin and Syria, and the son of Remaliah. 5 Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah have plotted evil against you, saying, 6 “Let us go up against Judah and trouble it, and let us make a gap in its wall for ourselves, and set a king over them, the son of Tabel”—

7 thus says the Lord God:
“It shall not stand,
Nor shall it come to pass.
8 For the head of Syria is Damascus,
And the head of Damascus is Rezin.
Within sixty-five years Ephraim will be broken,
So that it will not be a people.
9 The head of Ephraim is Samaria,
And the head of Samaria is Remaliah’s son.
If you will not believe,
Surely you shall not be established.”’”

17 The Lord will bring the king of Assyria upon you and your people and your father’s house—days that have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah.”
 Quoting: Isaiah 7


This prophecy will take place when Syria will join forces with Samaria to fight against Judah.

Now who are the modern day Samaritans/Samaria who will ally themselves with Syria to fight Judah?

The modern day Samaritans are the Palestinians!
 Quoting: waterman

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Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 05:09 PM
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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
Hummm....you really want USA to go to war for Israel...well that is not going to happen.
waterman (OP)

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11/20/2012 05:13 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
Hummm....you really want USA to go to war for Israel...well that is not going to happen.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23025153


God protects Israel...what I'm saying is everyone thinks the psalm 83 Gog Magog war is with tiny geographical Israel......It isn't, the Psalm 83 war is against spiritual Israel(united states, lost 10 tribes) and it will come like this:

Everything is run on computers....these days anyone could hack defense computers, make it look like everything is o.k until a few nukes are detonated a few miles above the middle of u.s and we have an emp and all the grid goes black

Here it is and will be redone with more technology
Ezekiel 21:
21 For the king of Babylon(enemy) stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright(nuclear warheads), he consulted with images(computers), he looked in the liver.
22 At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem(washington d.c), to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort.
23 And it shall be unto them as a false divination(computer says everything is fine) in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths(do you solemnly swear to uphold the....): but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken.

Last Edited by waterman on 11/20/2012 05:15 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 05:14 PM
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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
"Spiritual Israel (united states)"

lmao.

i do agree there is a spiritual israel and the u.s is NOT IT
waterman (OP)

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11/20/2012 05:21 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
"Spiritual Israel (united states)"

lmao.

i do agree there is a spiritual israel and the u.s is NOT IT
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22862093


America is Jacob.....the book of obadiah shows what canada does when the enemy comes and people run to canada.Canada hands the Americans over to the enemy...here is a portion for you:

Obadiah 1

King James Version (KJV)

1 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord God concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the Lord, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle.

2 Behold, I have made thee small among the heathen(canada): thou art greatly despised.

3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?(why because your brother protects you, america)

4 Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle(america, the eagle), and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the Lord.

5 If thieves came to thee, if robbers by night, (how art thou cut off!) would they not have stolen till they had enough? if the grapegatherers came to thee, would they not leave some grapes?

6 How are the things of Esau searched out! how are his hidden things sought up!

7 All the men of thy confederacy have brought thee even to the border: the men that were at peace with thee have deceived thee, and prevailed against thee; they that eat thy bread have laid a wound under thee: there is none understanding in him.

8 Shall I not in that day, saith the Lord, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?

9 And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter.

10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.

11 In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them.

12 But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.

13 Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity;
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waterman (OP)

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11/20/2012 05:25 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
"Spiritual Israel (united states)"

lmao.

i do agree there is a spiritual israel and the u.s is NOT IT
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22862093


read the blessings and curses of those who follow God. America received everyone of those blessings, and be sure now that they have turned from God the will receive every curse:

Blessings on Obedience

28 “Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that the Lord your God will set you high above all nations of the earth.(united states) 2 And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, because you obey the voice of the Lord your God:

3 “Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the country.

4 “Blessed shall be the fruit of your body, the produce of your ground and the increase of your herds, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks.

5 “Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.

6 “Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out.

7 “The Lord will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before your face; they shall come out against you one way and flee before you seven ways.

8 “The Lord will command the blessing on you in your storehouses and in all to which you set your hand, and He will bless you in the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

9 “The Lord will establish you as a holy people to Himself, just as He has sworn to you, if you keep the commandments of the Lord your God and walk in His ways. 10 Then all peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the Lord, and they shall be afraid of you. 11 And the Lord will grant you plenty of goods, in the fruit of your body, in the increase of your livestock, and in the produce of your ground, in the land of which the Lord swore to your fathers to give you. 12 The Lord will open to you His good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season, and to bless all the work of your hand. You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. 13 And the Lord will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not be beneath, if you heed the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, and are careful to observe them. 14 So you shall not turn aside from any of the words which I command you this day, to the right or the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
Curses on Disobedience

15 “But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

16 “Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the country.

17 “Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.

18 “Cursed shall be the fruit of your body and the produce of your land, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks.

19 “Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.

20 “The Lord will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me. 21 The Lord will make the plague cling to you until He has consumed you from the land which you are going to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with severe burning fever, with the sword, with scorching, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish. 23 And your heavens which are over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you shall be iron. 24 The Lord will change the rain of your land to powder and dust; from the heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed.

25 “The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 Your carcasses shall be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and no one shall frighten them away. 27 The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, with tumors, with the scab, and with the itch, from which you cannot be healed. 28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart. 29 And you shall grope at noonday, as a blind man gropes in darkness; you shall not prosper in your ways; you shall be only oppressed and plundered continually, and no one shall save you.

30 “You shall betroth a wife, but another man shall lie with her; you shall build a house, but you shall not dwell in it; you shall plant a vineyard, but shall not gather its grapes. 31 Your ox shall be slaughtered before your eyes, but you shall not eat of it; your donkey shall be violently taken away from before you, and shall not be restored to you; your sheep shall be given to your enemies, and you shall have no one to rescue them. 32 Your sons and your daughters shall be given to another people, and your eyes shall look and fail with longing for them all day long; and there shall be no strength in your hand. 33 A nation whom you have not known shall eat the fruit of your land and the produce of your labor, and you shall be only oppressed and crushed continually. 34 So you shall be driven mad because of the sight which your eyes see. 35 The Lord will strike you in the knees and on the legs with severe boils which cannot be healed, and from the sole of your foot to the top of your head.

36 “The Lord will bring you and the king whom you set over you to a nation which neither you nor your fathers have known, and there you shall serve other gods—wood and stone. 37 And you shall become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword among all nations where the Lord will drive you.

38 “You shall carry much seed out to the field but gather little in, for the locust shall consume it. 39 You shall plant vineyards and tend them, but you shall neither drink of the wine nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them. 40 You shall have olive trees throughout all your territory, but you shall not anoint yourself with the oil; for your olives shall drop off. 41 You shall beget sons and daughters, but they shall not be yours; for they shall go into captivity. 42 Locusts shall consume all your trees and the produce of your land.

43 “The alien who is among you shall rise higher and higher above you, and you shall come down lower and lower. 44 He shall lend to you, but you shall not lend to him; he shall be the head, and you shall be the tail.

45 “Moreover all these curses shall come upon you and pursue and overtake you, until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you. 46 And they shall be upon you for a sign and a wonder, and on your descendants forever.

47 “Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joy and gladness of heart, for the abundance of everything, 48 therefore you shall serve your enemies, whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger, in thirst, in nakedness, and in need of everything; and He will put a yoke of iron on your neck until He has destroyed you. 49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flies, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a nation of fierce countenance, which does not respect the elderly nor show favor to the young. 51 And they shall eat the increase of your livestock and the produce of your land, until you are destroyed; they shall not leave you grain or new wine or oil, or the increase of your cattle or the offspring of your flocks, until they have destroyed you.

52 “They shall besiege you at all your gates until your high and fortified walls, in which you trust, come down throughout all your land; and they shall besiege you at all your gates throughout all your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 You shall eat the fruit of your own body, the flesh of your sons and your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you. 54 The sensitive and very refined man among you will be hostile toward his brother, toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the rest of his children whom he leaves behind, 55 so that he will not give any of them the flesh of his children whom he will eat, because he has nothing left in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates. 56 The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because of her delicateness and sensitivity, will refuse[a] to the husband of her bosom, and to her son and her daughter, 57 her placenta which comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of everything in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates.

58 “If you do not carefully observe all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, THE LORD YOUR GOD, 59 then the Lord will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues—great and prolonged plagues—and serious and prolonged sicknesses. 60 Moreover He will bring back on you all the diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you. 61 Also every sickness and every plague, which is not written in this Book of the Law, will the Lord bring upon you until you are destroyed. 62 You shall be left few in number, whereas you were as the stars of heaven in multitude, because you would not obey the voice of the Lord your God. 63 And it shall be, that just as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good and multiply you, so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you and bring you to nothing; and you shall be plucked from off the land which you go to possess.

64 “Then the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods, which neither you nor your fathers have known—wood and stone. 65 And among those nations you shall find no rest, nor shall the sole of your foot have a resting place; but there the Lord will give you a trembling heart, failing eyes, and anguish of soul. 66 Your life shall hang in doubt before you; you shall fear day and night, and have no assurance of life. 67 In the morning you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were evening!’ And at evening you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were morning!’ because of the fear which terrifies your heart, and because of the sight which your eyes see.

68 “And the Lord will take you back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said to you, ‘You shall never see it again.’ And there you shall be offered for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.”

Last Edited by waterman on 11/20/2012 05:27 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 05:27 PM
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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
hey op, i supposed people are free to believe whatever they want, no matter how ridiculous.
waterman (OP)

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11/20/2012 05:28 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
hey op, i supposed people are free to believe whatever they want, no matter how ridiculous.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22862093


thanks for the bump
Heed the warning or endure the mourning
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 05:30 PM
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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
"Daughter of Zion(united states spiritual Israel)"

if you took out the united states from that you could be correct.

but like i said you are free to believe what you want. I just hope your false beliefs you are trying to push don't drive you crazy.

good luck
waterman (OP)

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11/20/2012 05:32 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
"Daughter of Zion(united states spiritual Israel)"

if you took out the united states from that you could be correct.

but like i said you are free to believe what you want. I just hope your false beliefs you are trying to push don't drive you crazy.

good luck
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22862093


sorry you can't see it friend...God bless!:


Heed the warning or endure the mourning
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 05:54 PM
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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
People read Isaiah, Jeremiah and the prophets and see the falling away of Israel and the Gods judgement come to them. Even if they do relate it to modern times. They are under the impression it is for tiny little geographical Israel which is only made of 2 of the original 12 tribes. People think the war of Gog and Magog is going to come to physical geographical Israel, but that war is not for the 2 tribes of geographical Israel it is for spiritual Israel the lost 10 tribes, the ones that are in the land of milk and honey(united states) where God said he would place the children of Israel, Gods hidden Israel: Psalm 83:
2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people,
and consulted against thy hidden ones.
4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
How is Israel hidden if we know where Israel is.....it is hidden because it is spiritual Israel....Bible pattern(physical first spiritual second)

If satan can cut off either house of Israel, the lost 10 tribes(united states) or the 2 tribes that are geographical Israel then the name of Israel will be no more. Ezek 37 shows they are rejoined in the end by Gods last servantIsrael is in two houses right now. 2 tribes make up geographical Israel(physical Israel) and 10 tribes(spiritual Israel) are in the land of milk and honey(united states), where God said He would send he children of Israel. The goal is to get the 10 spiritual tribes to turn their heart back to God, as they have fallen away. The other goal is to get the other 2 tribes to stop being physical tribes and become spiritual tribes like the other 10. To become part of the spiritual tribe you accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, repent, and turn from sin. you become a temple of God and as more and more accept this truth the temple of God gets bigger and bigger. They are all still physical people, but they become the spiritual temple of God by accepting Jesus.

2nd corinthians 6:16:
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The beast and the false prophet build the physical temple but the two witnesses build the spiritual temple(tell people about Jesus is building the temple). Those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, repent, and turn from sin are the temple of God
 Quoting: waterman


The New Jerusalem

Today I am going to read you the twenty-first chapter of the Book of Revelation of St John1.

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, 'See, the home of God is among mortals. He will dwell with them as their God; they will be his peoples, and God himself will be with them; he will wipe every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; mourning and crying and pain will be no more, for the first things have passed away.' And the one who was seated on the throne said, 'See, I am making all things new.' Also he said, 'Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.' Then he said to me, 'It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give water as a gift from the spring of the water of life. Those who conquer will inherit these things, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, the murderers, the fornicators, the sorcerers, the idolaters, and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.'

Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, 'Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.' And in the spirit he carried me away to a great, high mountain and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God. It has the glory of God and a radiance like a very rare jewel, like jasper, clear as crystal. It has a great, high wall with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates are inscribed the names of the twelve tribes of the Israelites; on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city has twelve foundations, and on them are the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

The angel who talked to me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city and its gates and walls. The city lies foursquare, its length the same as its width; and he measured the city with his rod, fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal. He also measured its wall, one hundred forty-four cubits by human measurement, which the angel was using. The wall is built of jasper, while the city is pure gold, clear as glass. The foundations of the wall of the city are adorned with every jewel; the first was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, the fifth onyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, the twelfth amethyst. And the twelve gates are twelve pearls, each of the gates is a single pearl, and the street of the city is pure gold, transparent as glass.

I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God is its light, and its lamp is the Lamb. The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. Its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there. People will bring into it the glory and the honour of the nations. But nothing unclean will enter it, nor anybody who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are in written in the Lamb's book of life.


* * *


From earliest antiquity there has always been one great initiatic centre on earth which commanded all others. All the lesser centres were branches of this unique centre, whose light has never ceased to shine throughout the centuries.

To guarantee the continuity of this flame, there had to be a being who possessed all powers and all knowledge, a being who could be God's representative on earth, a being who would never die. And such a being actually exists. He is mentioned in the Bible and, under different names, in all the spiritual traditions of the world; there can be no doubt as to his existence. In the Hebrew tradition he is known as Melchizedek. In Genesis Moses tells us that Melchizedek brought bread and wine to Abraham and that Abraham gave him the tenth part of his spoils of war. St Paul also speaks of Melchizedek in his Epistle to the Hebrews:

This King Melchizedek of Salem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham as he was returning from defeating the kings and blessed him; and to him Abraham apportioned one-tenth of everything. His name, in the first place, means 'king of righteousness'; next he is also king of Salem, that is, 'king of peace.' Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.

You will ask, 'But if he had no father or mother, how was he created?' A being who is God's representative on earth is all-powerful in respect to matter. He can form an etheric body that is capable of lasting until the end of time, and he can also disintegrate it at will. Of all God's representatives it is Melchizedek—whose name means 'king of justice'--who has the most important role to play on earth. He is the judge of the living and the dead, and all decisions concerning the destiny of mankind come from him. All the high initiates received instruction from him: Hermes Trismegistus was an aspect of Melchizedek, and Orpheus, Moses, Pythagoras,Plato, Buddha, and Zoroaster. All the greatest initiates were taught by him—even Jesus. It was Melchizedek who delegated the three Magi to represent his kingdom in paying homage to Jesus, because Jesus was the incarnation of the Divine Principle, of the Word made flesh. But Melchizedek, representative of the living God, who has neither beginning nor end, has a different role to play.

Jesus took the flesh and blood of a man, and this means that he had a mother and a father. But he spent the eighteen years of his life about which the Gospels are silent (from the age of twelve to the age of thirty) in the kingdom of Melchizedek, king of justice and of peace; and there, in the company of all the highest initiates, he did tremendous work for the whole world. He was about thirty when he returned to Palestine to accomplish his mission and extend to his own disciples his close relationship with the kingdom of Melchizedek. There is a tradition common to all religions that a mysterious kingdom exists in an inaccessible region known as the 'land of the immortals' or 'land of the living'. This mysterious kingdom is the kingdom of Melchizedek, but only a few initiates with close links to Melchizedek have firsthand knowledge of it.

No initiate can reach the summit without going through the school of Melchizedek. It is he who gives human beings access to the Sephirah. Kether, for he possesses the knowledge of all the angelic hierarchies; he moves freely from one to the other and has millions of angels at his service. He watches over the evolution of mankind, guiding it according to God's plan and intervening to restore order when human beings stray from the path laid down for them. And as the four elements—earth, water, air, and fire—are at his service, he has all powers. This, then, is the being whom St John saw and whom he describes at the beginning of Revelation: 'In his right hand he held seven stars, and from his mouth came a sharp, two-edged sword.' This communication between St John and Melchizedek came about because Jesus put them in touch with each other. Of course, details of this kind are never mentioned by the established religions, but anyone who is capable of doing some research in the archives of initiatic science will find them recorded there.

The being whom St John saw in his vision, therefore, the being who declared, 'I am Alpha and Omega... the beginning and the end,' was none other than Melchizedek. He is called by different names according to the cycles of the ages because his name is magic. And behold, the first seal of the Apocalypse is open. It is very important that you should know who this great being was, for St John was transported to his kingdom of Salem so that he should be capable of writing the Apocalypse. It was there that he was shown the depths of the earth and of the seas; it was there that he saw how the spirits do their work in nature by means of the four elements; and it was there that he contemplated the angelic hierarchies. It was at the orders of Melchizedek, therefore, that he wrote the Apocalypse, which will be deciphered in the last days.

Today, I want to talk to you about the New Jerusalem. What did St John mean when he spoke of 'the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God?' It is true that it will come down from heaven, but great upheavals and transfor-mations must take place before this can come about. You yourselves will witness all this, for it will happen in our times. St John speaks of a 'New Jerusalem' because there was another Jerusalem, which was destroyed. Why was the first Jerusalem given a name similar to Salem, the city of which Melchizedek was king? Because those who named it knew about Melchizedek. They had been initiated by Moses, who had himself received initiation from Jethro, his father-in-law. When Moses fled from Egypt he took refuge in the land of Midian, where he married Zipporah, the daughter of the high priest of the land. For years, Moses studied under the guidance of Jethro, his father-in-law. It was he who put him in touch with Melchizedek, and it was Melchizedek who gave Moses the mission to take to the world that great and terrible religion of the one true God, and to impose it by force.

In Genesis, Moses tells the story of Abraham, and it is in this context that he mentions Melchizedek. He does not say very much about him, but later, when he gave the key to his five books to the seventy Ancients of Israel, he revealed the existence of that initiatic centre that controls everything from the unknown place that represents the lost paradise, or Pardes, as it is called. This great science, in which Abraham and Jacob had been initiated before Moses, was also known to David and Solomon, whose name in Hebrew, Shlomo, has the same root as shalom, peace—which is also found in Yerushalaim, the Hebrew name for Jerusalem.

Solomon was told to build the temple of Jerusalem, the dimensions and architectural design of which, as well as all the objects it contained, corresponded to a science handed down by tradition. But this first temple was destroyed by the armies of Titus in order to punish the jewish people for breaking the law. The temple was destroyed and the Jewish people scattered to the ends of the earth, because at that time the jewish people had abandoned the spirit of their religion and refused to recognize Jesus as the Messiah. The old Jerusalem was the initiatic centre that contained the seed of the humanity of the future, but this centre failed in its mission. This is why a new one must now be created to take its place. The New Jerusalem will be built on the pattern of Salem, the city in which Melchizedek dwells surrounded by all those extraordinary beings of history and legend who are still alive and who, it is said, will one day return to the world. Many cabbalists and alchemists dwell there. Even Nicolas Flamel, the famous alchemist who never died, is there in the kingdom of the initiates, the kingdom of Melchizedek.

The New Jerusalem—what it is and how it will come to the world—this is what I have to reveal to you today. The picture of the New Jerusalem as St John describes it—its dimensions, its gates, its foundations of precious stones—is quite clear, and it can be understood in different ways: as a city, as a way of life, and as a human being. The New Jerusalem cannot come until there are enough human beings built on the same pattern, symbolically speaking, for the twelve gates of pearl and the foundations of precious stones symbolize virtues and qualities. You will perhaps ask why the city has twelve gates. Because it is an image of the universe and also of a human being, for a human being possesses twelve gates or doors.

Let us have a look at these gates and see where they are. There are the two eyes, two ears, two nostrils and the mouth; that makes seven (and it is no coincidence that they are all in the head). Then there are five more: the two breasts, the navel, and two more which I will leave you to find for yourselves... So, twelve gates—not eleven, not thirteen: exactly twelve. It is amazing to see how intelligent and exact it all is, and how full of meaning. Human being were built in the workshops of the Lord in such a way as to be capable of communication and exchange with heaven and earth and the whole universe. This is why their gates must be kept open so that the currents may circulate.

Every detail of St John's description of the New Jerusalem is symbolic. He speaks of it as a cube, for instance, because the cube symbolizes something stable, something complete. It is also the symbol of justice, and Melchizedek is the king of justice. By developing a cube you get a cross, and the cross represents a human being with outstretched arms. I am sure that you can see the correspondences.

It is no good expecting to see the New Jerusalem coming down as a ready-made city from heaven. No such city will fall on us from heaven. The New Jerusalem will 'come down' only when human beings are new. Yes, the New Jerusalem is the new human being; it is all the 'new' men and women who have undertaken a gigantic work of transformation in themselves. And this work of transformation is nothing less than the transformation of the old Adam into Christ, of the old man into the new, or, to put it in alchemical terms, the transformation of the red into blue. The parallel is very clear in Hebrew: Adam is the red man (adorn, red), who was taken from the earth (adamah, earth), and the red man of earth must transform himself into Christ, the blue of heaven, the symbol of peace. For anyone who is familiar with the language of symbolism these correspondences are very clear. As red is the colour of the spectrum that has the lowest vibrational frequency, it represents man's physical impulses: vitality, sensuality, anger, aggressiveness, even drunkenness. But each colour has different shades (love has hundreds of different shades; life also). All these tendencies represent thousands of different shades of red.

Jesus made it very clear that it was possible for the physical body to be transformed into light; he showed us this in his transfiguration on Mount Thabor. The Gospels tell us that his face shone like the sun and his clothes became as white as light, and Moses and Elijah appeared and talked with him. Why were Moses and Elijah there? Their presence at this moment in Jesus' life was highly significant. It means that their spirit entered into him. Moses came to give him strength, for he was the master of strength; and Elijah came to give him his foremost quality, knowledge. The teaching and prophecies of Elijah are so highly renowned and esteemed that, even today, it is said that he never died and that he will come again in the last days. At the moment of his transfiguration, therefore, Moses and Elijah took up their abode in Jesus. Jesus was not a single spirit; he was a collective being. All the great initiates before him had given him something of themselves, something that he needed in order to accomplish his mission.

At this point, you might begin to wonder whether it is possible for all human beings to be transfigured in this way, and the answer is yes. Such a transfiguration is possible for all those who succeed in purifying and sublimating their physical body. For it is not only in our souls and spirits that Christ must be born, but in our physical bodies as well. This is the symbolism of the manger, which I explained to you on Christmas Day2. When human beings work consciously for a long time with faith, hope, and love, their body becomes so pure and so sublimated, and all their particles vibrate with such intensity, that transfiguration becomes possible for them, just as it was possible for Jesus. And this is the New Jerusalem.

2 See chap. 1 of Christmas and Easter in the Initiatic Tradition, Izvor Collection, N°. 209.

The New Jerusalem is the perfection of an initiate, a master, in whom Christ is born, in whom Christ lives and breathes and manifests through those twelve gates, those twelve openings. The New Jerusalem is preparing to come into the world; it is on its way from heaven. Angels are already active in the world, working to perfect human beings and make them truly beautiful. Every day and every night the ponderous, dark, discordant particles of our beings are swept away and replaced by particles that are light, supple, and luminous. Thousands of new Jerusalems are getting ready to unite in forming the one great New Jerusalem in which God himself will dwell, in which there will be no more tears and no more suffering.

The New Jerusalem embraces all the children of God, all those in whom Christ is born. This means, of course, that it is a perfect society in which all human beings live as brothers and sisters. And, finally, the New Jerusalem is this initiatic centre that has always existed just as St John described it, with all its gold, and pearls, and precious stones. For all this already exists in the world above, and all the truths, all the elements that exist above must one day exist materially on earth.

If you study the earth you will, of course, find that it is made up of layers of dark, dull matter, but a multitude of creatures is working to purify that matter from within. Indeed, gems and precious metals are earth, but earth that has been transformed and sublimated to an extraordinary degree. A precious stone is the quintessence of all that is purest in the earth, and the initiates are the precious stones of mankind, the quintessence of the human race. The custom of adorning the crowns of kings or the sacred vestments of priests with gems stems from the knowledge that they represent the qualities and virtues of the most highly evolved beings, and that each stone symbolizes a particular virtue. A wise and intelligent man for instance is a topaz; a man of peace is a sapphire; someone who is enthusiastic and ardent is a ruby, and so on. If human kings wear jewels in their crowns, it is because there are jewels in the crown of the Almighty. God wears a crown, and in that crown are archangels and divinities, the jewels of creation.

The New Jerusalem is the perfect man, perfect universal life; it is Melchizedek's kingdom of justice and peace. This New Jerusalem is coming into the world. All those who have spoken of its coming say that it will come before the end of the century, and the reality will be something you cannot even imagine. In it will be a temple with the twelve precious stones described by St John. These precious stones—mountains of precious stones—are being kept for this age in the dwelling place of the king of justice and peace. Believe me or not as you please, it is all the same to me, but I tell you that you will see all this. Some of you will see it.

First and foremost, however, it is we ourselves who must become the New Jerusalem with our twelve gates in perfect working order, so that there may be an uninterrupted flow of exchange, and we may be transfigured. For, as I have already explained, the most important thing to understand is the symbolism of the New Jerusalem.

St John says that the heavenly city was surrounded by a great and high wall. A wall is a protection; the symbol of a powerful aura that surrounds and protects man. Those who possess a powerful aura are protected by the radiance of their own light.

This city had twelve gates. 'And at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates are inscribed the names of the twelve tribes of the Israelites.' These twelve tribes represent the twelve functions, for behind each gate (the eyes, the ears, the mouth, and so on) stands an angel. And now I ask you to listen in a spirit of great purity to what I have to tell you. Each of the twelve gates of every man and woman who is sufficiently purified to become a New Jerusalem is guarded by an angel whose function is to receive and transform all that enters through that gate. This means that when a woman who has really purified herself wishes to conceive a child, the angel at the gate works on the sperm she receives, and the child that is born to her will be genius or a divinity. But if a woman is impure, a demon, an angel of darkness lurks behind that gate, and her child will be an idiot or a monster.

So many truths still remain hidden. But they will all be revealed in time. Be patient! You still have no real understanding of what men and women are—of their structure, of the forces at work in them, or of the way they must live in order to be true tabernacles of the living God, New Jerusalems. It is toward this that I have been leading you for years and years: that you become New Jerusalems. And those who refuse to understand today will be obliged, whether they like it or not, to understand in the long run, but by then it will be too late. Human beings are completely indifferent to what might be happening behind their gates. A man is satisfied as long as he has a woman who will let him enter. He neither knows nor cares whether what goes in is demonic or not. And the woman neither knows nor cares whether what she lets in is received by a demon or by an angel. But one day they will be obliged to take the question seriously, for it is very important.

'I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb.' Once again we have the confirmation that the New Jerusalem is a temple, and this means that each human being is a temple. As St Paul says, 'You are the temple of the living God.'

The New Jerusalem is the new human being in whom all is gold, pearls, and precious stones. And thelight shines within. Each one of you must become the New Jerusalem. For two thousand years there has been a succession of occult groups that claimed to be the New Jerusalem—and there are still some today. But how can anyone delude themselves that they are the New Jerusalem when these things are still so far beyond their comprehension, when they are still prisoners of the old forms, still looking for the keys to the book of life? Only those who have these keys, the seven seals—those who have a profound understanding of the Scriptures—can be the New Jerusalem. To be the New Jerusalem it is not enough to be able to trot out a few scraps of initiatic science while continuing to be as puny, fearful, weak, irresolute, and vicious as ever. No, we can all become the New Jerusalem, but only with the help of this new light which opens all doors, and which must produce visible results. If you possess knowledge, there must be results to show for it. If there are no results, it means that your knowledge does not amount to much.

'And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it...' The sun symbolizes the intellect and the moon the heart. Those in whom divine light and divine love dwell will need neither the sun nor the moon; that is, they will need neither philosophy nor religion.

'Its gates will never be shut by day—and there will be no night there.' When someone is illuminated there is no night in him. The light is always shining in those who are illuminated; even when they are asleep, there is no night for them. Whereas, others fluctuate constantly between night and day; at one moment they are in the light and at the next they are in darkness. But when illumination comes, the Holy Spirit is their light and they are no longer in darkness. Night is the lack of understanding. You must not take the phrase, 'there will be no night' literally. Use your imagination; if there were no night it would mean that the cosmic order was disrupted; the earth would no longer spin on its axis; one half of the world would be in perpetual light and the other in perpetual darkness. That is not possible. In another chapter of Revelations we read, `To the one who conquers I will also give the morning star.' The morning star is Venus. Does this mean that the celestial harmony of the heavens must be disrupted so that one who conquers may be given the planet Venus? What could he possibly do with it? Where would he put it? And suppose there were several who conquered—where could they find several other planets? No, it is obvious that all this has to be understood symbolically. So there is no need to worry; day and night will continue to exist. In this context, night symbolizes all that is negative. As long as night exists you will be full of hope one minute and in the depths of despair the next, full of faith one minute and full of doubts the next, and so on.

The New Jerusalem, therefore, is, first and foremost, the individual human being. Secondly it is a magnificent society, and thirdly it is the true Church of God, the Church of St John, the Church of the Spirit and of Truth, the Church of all the great initiates. No one can prevent this Church from coming, and when it comes all these things will be explained; everything will become clear, for Scripture tells us that God will dwell in human beings and write his law in their hearts. When this day comes, people will not need anyone to preach religion or morals to them; they will all know inwardly what to do, how to love, how to serve, and how to work. When a woman has a child she has no need of anyone to tell her how to feed and care for her child, to tell her that she must get up and look after it if it cries in the night; she knows all that because she has love in her heart. The Lord has written his laws in the hearts of mothers; they do not need rules or recipes from others. It is only when there is no love that we need rules. And even then they do not do much good.

As long as there is no love, there will continue to be religions, but the religions will never lead humanity to God. When love reigns there will be no more need for the religions. Religion will develop inwardly and express itself as kindness, radiance, sacrifice, sweetness, and light. I teach you as I have been taught. It was when love no longer dwelt with mankind that religion appeared and tried to make up for the loss. But when love returns, religion as we know it today will disappear again, for it will live once more in the hearts of men.

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Thread: The New Jerusalem

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waterman (OP)

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11/20/2012 06:33 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
israel is israel, both physically and spiritualy.

the shatia stone has not moved an inch since the formation of the world
 Quoting: DPS


Eve was always a part of Adam and came forth from Adam. Israel and Judah splitting into 2 kingdoms is the same example. The northern kingdom Israel(lost 10 tribes) is the feminine side of Israel(united states). Judah and benjamin(geographical Israel) the other 2 tribes are the male side. If you can see the northern kingdom as Eve and the southern kingdom as Adam you will be able to understand it. The goal is to bring Eves'(united states) heart back to God as Eve turned from God. the other goal is to get the other 2 tribes to realize Jesus is the atonement for sin and when you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, repent and turn from sin you become the temple of God. A temple that can't be destoryed. God had 2 temples and both were destroyed. A spiritual temple can't be destroyed and this is what God desires.
2nd corinthians 6:16:
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Heed the warning or endure the mourning
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2012 10:53 PM
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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
israel is israel, both physically and spiritualy.

the shatia stone has not moved an inch since the formation of the world
 Quoting: DPS


Eve was always a part of Adam and came forth from Adam. Israel and Judah splitting into 2 kingdoms is the same example. The northern kingdom Israel(lost 10 tribes) is the feminine side of Israel(united states). Judah and benjamin(geographical Israel) the other 2 tribes are the male side. If you can see the northern kingdom as Eve and the southern kingdom as Adam you will be able to understand it. The goal is to bring Eves'(united states) heart back to God as Eve turned from God. the other goal is to get the other 2 tribes to realize Jesus is the atonement for sin and when you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, repent and turn from sin you become the temple of God. A temple that can't be destoryed. God had 2 temples and both were destroyed. A spiritual temple can't be destroyed and this is what God desires.
2nd corinthians 6:16:
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
 Quoting: waterman


bump
waterman (OP)

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11/21/2012 12:26 AM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
People read Isaiah, Jeremiah and the prophets and see the falling away of Israel and the Gods judgement come to them. Even if they do relate it to modern times. They are under the impression it is for tiny little geographical Israel which is only made of 2 of the original 12 tribes. People think the war of Gog and Magog is going to come to physical geographical Israel, but that war is not for the 2 tribes of geographical Israel it is for spiritual Israel the lost 10 tribes, the ones that are in the land of milk and honey(united states) where God said he would place the children of Israel, Gods hidden Israel: Psalm 83:
2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people,
and consulted against thy hidden ones.
4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
How is Israel hidden if we know where Israel is.....it is hidden because it is spiritual Israel....Bible pattern(physical first spiritual second)

If satan can cut off either house of Israel, the lost 10 tribes(united states) or the 2 tribes that are geographical Israel then the name of Israel will be no more. Ezek 37 shows they are rejoined in the end by Gods last servantIsrael is in two houses right now. 2 tribes make up geographical Israel(physical Israel) and 10 tribes(spiritual Israel) are in the land of milk and honey(united states), where God said He would send he children of Israel. The goal is to get the 10 spiritual tribes to turn their heart back to God, as they have fallen away. The other goal is to get the other 2 tribes to stop being physical tribes and become spiritual tribes like the other 10. To become part of the spiritual tribe you accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, repent, and turn from sin. you become a temple of God and as more and more accept this truth the temple of God gets bigger and bigger. They are all still physical people, but they become the spiritual temple of God by accepting Jesus.

2nd corinthians 6:16:
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The beast and the false prophet build the physical temple but the two witnesses build the spiritual temple(tell people about Jesus is building the temple). Those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, repent, and turn from sin are the temple of God
 Quoting: waterman

Heed the warning or endure the mourning
waterman (OP)

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11/21/2012 08:46 AM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
People read Isaiah, Jeremiah and the prophets and see the falling away of Israel and the Gods judgement come to them. Even if they do relate it to modern times. They are under the impression it is for tiny little geographical Israel which is only made of 2 of the original 12 tribes. People think the war of Gog and Magog is going to come to physical geographical Israel, but that war is not for the 2 tribes of geographical Israel it is for spiritual Israel the lost 10 tribes, the ones that are in the land of milk and honey(united states) where God said he would place the children of Israel, Gods hidden Israel: Psalm 83:
2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people,
and consulted against thy hidden ones.
4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
How is Israel hidden if we know where Israel is.....it is hidden because it is spiritual Israel....Bible pattern(physical first spiritual second)

If satan can cut off either house of Israel, the lost 10 tribes(united states) or the 2 tribes that are geographical Israel then the name of Israel will be no more. Ezek 37 shows they are rejoined in the end by Gods last servantIsrael is in two houses right now. 2 tribes make up geographical Israel(physical Israel) and 10 tribes(spiritual Israel) are in the land of milk and honey(united states), where God said He would send he children of Israel. The goal is to get the 10 spiritual tribes to turn their heart back to God, as they have fallen away. The other goal is to get the other 2 tribes to stop being physical tribes and become spiritual tribes like the other 10. To become part of the spiritual tribe you accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, repent, and turn from sin. you become a temple of God and as more and more accept this truth the temple of God gets bigger and bigger. They are all still physical people, but they become the spiritual temple of God by accepting Jesus.

2nd corinthians 6:16:
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The beast and the false prophet build the physical temple but the two witnesses build the spiritual temple(tell people about Jesus is building the temple). Those who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, repent, and turn from sin are the temple of God
 Quoting: waterman



Heed the warning or endure the mourning
Angel Helper

User ID: 27117434
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11/24/2012 02:11 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
Hummm....you really want USA to go to war for Israel...well that is not going to happen.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23025153


God protects Israel...what I'm saying is everyone thinks the psalm 83 Gog Magog war is with tiny geographical Israel......It isn't, the Psalm 83 war is against spiritual Israel(united states, lost 10 tribes) and it will come like this:

Everything is run on computers....these days anyone could hack defense computers, make it look like everything is o.k until a few nukes are detonated a few miles above the middle of u.s and we have an emp and all the grid goes black

Here it is and will be redone with more technology
Ezekiel 21:
21 For the king of Babylon(enemy) stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright(nuclear warheads), he consulted with images(computers), he looked in the liver.
22 At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem(washington d.c), to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort.
23 And it shall be unto them as a false divination(computer says everything is fine) in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths(do you solemnly swear to uphold the....): but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken.
 Quoting: waterman


OH my GOSH....

This is alarming to me as I now "get it" and this piece is the final piece that actually "fits"..

Now I understand so much more and so many things are now made crystal clear to me. Especially OBAMA.
Wow. Not long ago, I got into the research of the ten lost tribes. The reason I even researched the "ten lost tribes" was someone told me the United states were a "blessed" people. I never understood this. Now I do. Please keep this going as you receive your revelations. It all makes sense.
Thank you.
Live and let live, for we all have our own lessons to learn.
waterman (OP)

User ID: 26724077
United States
11/25/2012 12:18 AM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
Hummm....you really want USA to go to war for Israel...well that is not going to happen.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23025153


God protects Israel...what I'm saying is everyone thinks the psalm 83 Gog Magog war is with tiny geographical Israel......It isn't, the Psalm 83 war is against spiritual Israel(united states, lost 10 tribes) and it will come like this:

Everything is run on computers....these days anyone could hack defense computers, make it look like everything is o.k until a few nukes are detonated a few miles above the middle of u.s and we have an emp and all the grid goes black

Here it is and will be redone with more technology
Ezekiel 21:
21 For the king of Babylon(enemy) stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright(nuclear warheads), he consulted with images(computers), he looked in the liver.
22 At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem(washington d.c), to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort.
23 And it shall be unto them as a false divination(computer says everything is fine) in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths(do you solemnly swear to uphold the....): but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken.
 Quoting: waterman


OH my GOSH....

This is alarming to me as I now "get it" and this piece is the final piece that actually "fits"..

Now I understand so much more and so many things are now made crystal clear to me. Especially OBAMA.
Wow. Not long ago, I got into the research of the ten lost tribes. The reason I even researched the "ten lost tribes" was someone told me the United states were a "blessed" people. I never understood this. Now I do. Please keep this going as you receive your revelations. It all makes sense.
Thank you.
 Quoting: Angel Helper


WOW thanks for posting a response I appreciate you reading the thread, stay strong in the Jesus He is our rock and foundation, though it may look like we are forsaken for a season always remember Jesus will never leave us or forsake us as long as we remain faithful


WordofGod

Last Edited by waterman on 11/25/2012 12:19 AM
Heed the warning or endure the mourning
waterman (OP)

User ID: 26724077
United States
11/25/2012 01:52 AM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
Hummm....you really want USA to go to war for Israel...well that is not going to happen.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23025153


God protects Israel...what I'm saying is everyone thinks the psalm 83 Gog Magog war is with tiny geographical Israel......It isn't, the Psalm 83 war is against spiritual Israel(united states, lost 10 tribes) and it will come like this:

Everything is run on computers....these days anyone could hack defense computers, make it look like everything is o.k until a few nukes are detonated a few miles above the middle of u.s and we have an emp and all the grid goes black

Here it is and will be redone with more technology
Ezekiel 21:
21 For the king of Babylon(enemy) stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright(nuclear warheads), he consulted with images(computers), he looked in the liver.
22 At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem(washington d.c), to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort.
23 And it shall be unto them as a false divination(computer says everything is fine) in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths(do you solemnly swear to uphold the....): but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken.
 Quoting: waterman


OH my GOSH....

This is alarming to me as I now "get it" and this piece is the final piece that actually "fits"..

Now I understand so much more and so many things are now made crystal clear to me. Especially OBAMA.
Wow. Not long ago, I got into the research of the ten lost tribes. The reason I even researched the "ten lost tribes" was someone told me the United states were a "blessed" people. I never understood this. Now I do. Please keep this going as you receive your revelations. It all makes sense.
Thank you.
 Quoting: Angel Helper


WOW thanks for posting a response I appreciate you reading the thread, stay strong in the Jesus He is our rock and foundation, though it may look like we are forsaken for a season always remember Jesus will never leave us or forsake us as long as we remain faithful


WordofGod
 Quoting: waterman

Heed the warning or endure the mourning
geographical, yes
User ID: 28191306
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11/25/2012 02:37 AM
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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
israel is israel, both physically and spiritualy.

the shatia stone has not moved an inch since the formation of the world
 Quoting: DPS


After the reign of solomon Israel split into 2 kingdoms. The northern kingdom(Isreal) and the southern kingdom(Judah). The assyrians attacked the northern 10 tribes that made up the northern kingdom(those tribes were never heard from again. 135 years later the southern kingdom (Judah and benjamin) are attacked by the babylonians and taken into captivity, but 70 years later the southern kingdom(judah and benjamin regrouped) and are the geographical Israel of today
 Quoting: waterman




geographical Israel, yes.

but those that remained of the tribes consisted of the tribes of Judah, those of the house of Judah, they which were never taken away into captivity yet remained in their given land. these tribes comingled with others who eventually became members of the tribes of Judah by default. at one time they hired these as scribes that lived among them, blending in with time. these were of the offspring of the sons of cain. good figs, bad figs.

the divided branch, judah/israel, in more ways than one. those remaining were they who did not believe upon Messiah.

the children of the lost tribes, scattered like the sands of the sea and as plentiful. yes. we are Israel and we are lost indeed in many cases. yet we've been foretold all things in the Word.

they will indeed come from the north in our case. they will be decimated by the Lord God of Hosts that they might know that He is the Lord and that there is no other, and that He is a Father who loves His children, regardless of which side of the outstretched arm they happen to fall on when push and shove arrive. those that seek to destroy His children shall not prevail. if God is with you who in hell can be against you and prevail? right is might. people seem to have forgotten that fact, or even why it is so, or so it would seem.

people seek continually for something new to learn, rather than simply to allow themselves to remember who they are, and why.
Out of Her
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11/25/2012 09:31 AM
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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
The entire Physical Israel is a Freemasonic Hoax. After the cross everything concerning Gods people became spiritual, the entire body of Christ is Spiritual Israel there are 2 bodies though, those who know it and those who are still in bondage to Jerusalem that "is"

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

The reference to "is" is important because it's the outward signature of those who are worshiping the Beast.

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The Beast that killed Christ reieved it's deadly wound at the cross but now has assended out of the bottomless pit, the signature of that is the freemasonic antichrist Nation State of Israel. The same political religious system that Killed Christ is now back, deadly wound healed.

This time it will be the Christians that are executed by those thinking they are doing Gods service.

Joh_16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

All in support of whatthey beleive to be the Israel of God not knowing they are the Israel of God. They have forfieted their birthright.
Angel Helper

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11/26/2012 07:38 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
Hummm....you really want USA to go to war for Israel...well that is not going to happen.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23025153


God protects Israel...what I'm saying is everyone thinks the psalm 83 Gog Magog war is with tiny geographical Israel......It isn't, the Psalm 83 war is against spiritual Israel(united states, lost 10 tribes) and it will come like this:

Everything is run on computers....these days anyone could hack defense computers, make it look like everything is o.k until a few nukes are detonated a few miles above the middle of u.s and we have an emp and all the grid goes black

Here it is and will be redone with more technology
Ezekiel 21:
21 For the king of Babylon(enemy) stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright(nuclear warheads), he consulted with images(computers), he looked in the liver.
22 At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem(washington d.c), to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort.
23 And it shall be unto them as a false divination(computer says everything is fine) in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths(do you solemnly swear to uphold the....): but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken.
 Quoting: waterman


OH my GOSH....

This is alarming to me as I now "get it" and this piece is the final piece that actually "fits"..

Now I understand so much more and so many things are now made crystal clear to me. Especially OBAMA.
Wow. Not long ago, I got into the research of the ten lost tribes. The reason I even researched the "ten lost tribes" was someone told me the United states were a "blessed" people. I never understood this. Now I do. Please keep this going as you receive your revelations. It all makes sense.
Thank you.
 Quoting: Angel Helper


WOW thanks for posting a response I appreciate you reading the thread, stay strong in the Jesus He is our rock and foundation, though it may look like we are forsaken for a season always remember Jesus will never leave us or forsake us as long as we remain faithful


WordofGod
 Quoting: waterman

Thank you for the kind words.....and the "hug"....Goodness knows I could use one!! I am still studying the words you have shared with us. I am getting so much more understanding in terms of how everything is unfolding. I have had so many revelations on our universe and how these fallen angels have deceived us so badly.
I am going to share this with friends that are hungry for wisdom and knowledge that Jesus imparts to those whom is set apart for this.
Please stay strong too. May God richly Bless you and yours.
Live and let live, for we all have our own lessons to learn.
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 09:58 PM
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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
...


God protects Israel...what I'm saying is everyone thinks the psalm 83 Gog Magog war is with tiny geographical Israel......It isn't, the Psalm 83 war is against spiritual Israel(united states, lost 10 tribes) and it will come like this:

Everything is run on computers....these days anyone could hack defense computers, make it look like everything is o.k until a few nukes are detonated a few miles above the middle of u.s and we have an emp and all the grid goes black

Here it is and will be redone with more technology
Ezekiel 21:
21 For the king of Babylon(enemy) stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright(nuclear warheads), he consulted with images(computers), he looked in the liver.
22 At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem(washington d.c), to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort.
23 And it shall be unto them as a false divination(computer says everything is fine) in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths(do you solemnly swear to uphold the....): but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken.
 Quoting: waterman


OH my GOSH....

This is alarming to me as I now "get it" and this piece is the final piece that actually "fits"..

Now I understand so much more and so many things are now made crystal clear to me. Especially OBAMA.
Wow. Not long ago, I got into the research of the ten lost tribes. The reason I even researched the "ten lost tribes" was someone told me the United states were a "blessed" people. I never understood this. Now I do. Please keep this going as you receive your revelations. It all makes sense.
Thank you.
 Quoting: Angel Helper


WOW thanks for posting a response I appreciate you reading the thread, stay strong in the Jesus He is our rock and foundation, though it may look like we are forsaken for a season always remember Jesus will never leave us or forsake us as long as we remain faithful


:WordofGod:
 Quoting: waterman

Thank you for the kind words.....and the "hug"....Goodness knows I could use one!! I am still studying the words you have shared with us. I am getting so much more understanding in terms of how everything is unfolding. I have had so many revelations on our universe and how these fallen angels have deceived us so badly.
I am going to share this with friends that are hungry for wisdom and knowledge that Jesus imparts to those whom is set apart for this.
Please stay strong too. May God richly Bless you and yours.
 Quoting: Angel Helper


bump
Angel Helper

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11/29/2012 02:50 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
bumping for good info...
Live and let live, for we all have our own lessons to learn.
waterman (OP)

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12/13/2012 02:38 PM

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Re: There are 2 Israel Spiritual Israel (united states) and physical Isreal (geographical Israel) Psalm 83 war is with spiritual Israel (U.S)
As christian we are grafted into the olive tree and are spiritual Jews which is what makes up Israel. We all can see the nation of Israel so the hidden Jew is the christian and if the Jew and christian aren't joined in the end you don't have the whole house of Israel and the name of Israel is cut off because it isn't complete. So when Psalm 83 is speaking about cutting off the "hidden" ones
it isn't talking about geographical Israel(they aren't hidden) is is talking about the spiritual jews(christians) and we know where the majority of them live(united states) spiritual Israel "thy hidden ones"

Psalm 83
King James Version (KJV)
83 Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.
2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel(name of Israel is cut off if both houses aren't joined) may be no more in remembrance.
5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:

So when Elijah comes to warn the nation of Israel that has turned from God to repent it will not be geographical Israel because they have not come to the realization that Jesus is messiah yet, so it will be the nation that turned from God (united states)
Heed the warning or endure the mourning

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