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Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion

 
mrsnacks
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11/21/2012 09:30 AM
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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
Babies and animals are not accountable because they know not what they do. They don't have the ability to know and understand.


=======================
Really ???? Not only babies, but adults are not accountable because they know not what they do either. Obviously you don't know your own Scriptures for even it was reported that Jesus said on the cross, " Father forgive them , they know not what they do."HE was addressing adults. So now come up with an explanation and I know you will to defend your beliefs. The problem with all religious threads is that it gets nowhere. The Christian for example will not admit the contradictions within their own belief system. They are not open. They don't even see that there are Christians that believe and don't believe in a rapture. The same goes for all the doctrines in the church. That includes the trinity, the gifts of the Holy Spirit,salvation,the doctrine of hell,the Great tribulation, and etc. Care to differ. Then just go and see how many denominations and churches there are. Thousands. You all can't even agree on the translations ala the King James controversy.

Christians will claim that they love God yet they still kill, hate,cheat and lie. If they loved their God so much they would not hurt God by doing things that God hates. IF you love your wife would you go out and commit adultery or lie to her etc? Is that love ? Christians pray and why do they . To get something from God. IT is fakery. IF God provides all your needs and will never leave nor forsake you then why pray ? They go to church once a week and deep inside they would not rather go. And what about the rest of the week ? Why not have church services every night after work ? Or why not just give up your jobs and full time preach the gospel to the world as Jesus instructed ? Jesus also commanded His followers to go and sell all and give to the poor. Have you all done that ?

All manipulation. They look upwards to pray and see God as separate from them. If God is omnipresent that means God is everywhere and in everything etc. So how can God be upwards or not present in everybody and everything. There is no separation. Too many contradictions.

My desire is maybe there is one person who is contemplating religion to stop and just see and not go that miserable road.

True love is acceptance. If you are trying to convert someone else to your own beliefs that is not love. Especially with the threat of hellfire. All fear based and also based on getting something from God which is not love.

They will have an invitation in the service and play a nice hymn and plead for you to come forward and give your life to Christ and add- you might die and miss the opportunity and end up in hell. How sweet !!!!! Then you feel guilty and come forward and all is happy. Now the conditions come. Now you must attend church and get indoctrinated. Hang out with other Christians and put away your rock music and not see certain films etc. Change your dress code and not cuss and the list goes on. That is what they call unconditional love. What BS.
Anonymous Coward
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11/21/2012 09:32 AM
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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
We also have the Sacred Hearth. He is alive on that one.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1028241


I have an Infant of Prague, Manger and Nativity, and a byzantine. Christians do not only concentrate on his death, but also his life. In fact, we celebrate his life more so.
Lotus Flower

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11/21/2012 03:11 PM
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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
ooh yea right the REAL meaning pfff is simple its still torture. that's the problem with you Christians you always try to shine a nice light on bad things make it prettier than it actually is while in fact its NOT. and of course In the name of Jezus, what everrr btw did you know that Jezus is there proof that IT existed and not some creation of a wanna bee steven spielberg in those times writing a nice script.

you cant proof it and just that 80% of the world believes in it does not mean it happend and or it exists.

what i do believe is that there is a force in everything a universal force and that has been proven to be true.

soo unless someone cant proof that Jezus existed for real with real evidence im like screw all those religions they just make this world a lie

sins pfff religion is a sin .... think about that




Learn the true deeper meaning of the symbolism
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11171736

THIS ^

To the OP, you are looking at the surface, you are not looking at the full picture and the "stuff" underneath.

Until you completely comprehend the real meaning behind the crucifixion, you cannot make those claims you just have.
 Quoting: Lotus Flower

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18034483


Hey, spring chicken from Colombia, I am not a Christian, first of all, get that straight.

Now then, now that you know that, in future it would be a good idea to stop jumping to conclusions when anybody comes up with a viewpoint, because believe me, from where I am sitting you are jumping to all the wrong conclusions as per your reply to me as being just one example.

As I said before, look beyond the surface, look at the inner meanings and perhaps you will see what the true meaning is.

If you want to know which religion I am, by the way, I am not of any religion at all.....
Lotus

Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares - Hebrews 13:2

One Crowded hour of glorious life, is worth an age without a name - Thomas Osbert Mordaunt
Lotus Flower

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11/21/2012 03:14 PM
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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
...


So which sins have stillborn babies commited, who were yet to experience life on this earth? Children born with Aids? Kids raped by paedo's - why kind of god would let such things happen to innocent souls..?
 Quoting: GeordieLegend


Babies and young children are not accountable for any sins they commit. They go directly to heaven. Animals go directly to heaven too.

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


So why are young children & animals not accountable, but adults & humans are? When does a child officially become an adult, and all of a sudden become accountable?

...you do realise how stupid all of this is, don't you...
 Quoting: GeordieLegend


Can you tell me a sin that an animal has done? Can you tell me a sin that an infant or toddler has committed?

Why don't you tell US why innocent humans are tortured and punished for no apparent reason.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9966035


The bolded bit above ^

Nice one AC, I want to see what answers they come up with on that......
Lotus

Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares - Hebrews 13:2

One Crowded hour of glorious life, is worth an age without a name - Thomas Osbert Mordaunt
jdb

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11/21/2012 04:54 PM

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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
...


I didn't avoid it, I said ALL of your sins. Everything that you know about, and ask forgiveness for the ones you don't even remember.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Ask for forgiveness to someone who has been dead 2000 years instead of asking forgiveness from the person you "sinned"? That makes it so much easier for the "sinner" doesn't it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26814846


The Critical difference *IS*...that He's *NOT* dead, but ALIVE! This *is* the whole of the point! He Is Alive! Bend your knee now, ask Him to forgive you and repent! Otherwise if you die without Him, you will regret with a truly eternal regret that is beyond imagination!
 Quoting: jdb


If something, ANYTHING is alive, it can be proven. Where is the proof of this "alive Jesus"?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26814846



The internal and external evidence is truly overwhelming!

I'd be more then happy to spend the time discussing the evidence *IF* you are truly sincere in your quest for truth! *IF* you are truly sincere, I'd like to suggest that you and I start a new thread where we, with consideration, examine the aforementioned evidence that I proclaim I can present! Otherwise, your lack of interest or commitment potentially speaks volumes about your (respectfully stated) lack of character and integrity!

What do you say?

Last Edited by jdb on 11/21/2012 04:55 PM
God Is! We're not! Let's knock off all the nonsense!
jdb

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11/21/2012 05:08 PM

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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
...


I didn't avoid it, I said ALL of your sins. Everything that you know about, and ask forgiveness for the ones you don't even remember.
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


Ask for forgiveness to someone who has been dead 2000 years instead of asking forgiveness from the person you "sinned"? That makes it so much easier for the "sinner" doesn't it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26814846


The Critical difference *IS*...that He's *NOT* dead, but ALIVE! This *is* the whole of the point! He Is Alive! Bend your knee now, ask Him to forgive you and repent! Otherwise if you die without Him, you will regret with a truly eternal regret that is beyond imagination!
 Quoting: jdb


Also, why would you ask for forgiveness to this Jesus instead of the actual person you sinned? Like I said, it's so much easier asking forgiveness to someone in your head than it is to ask forgiveness to the one you sinned.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26814846


When one sins against another, he is sinning against The Most High God - asking forgiveness from both God and the offended is necessary! Christians are to be quick for reconciliation
God Is! We're not! Let's knock off all the nonsense!
the white rose

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11/21/2012 08:45 PM
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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
TO ALL, Meaning of the Death on the Cross


(2016.6) 188:4.1 Although Jesus did not die this death on the cross to atone for the racial guilt of mortal man nor to provide some sort of effective approach to an otherwise offended and unforgiving God; even though the Son of Man did not offer himself as a sacrifice to appease the wrath of God and to open the way for sinful man to obtain salvation; notwithstanding that these ideas of atonement and propitiation are erroneous, nonetheless, there are significances attached to this death of Jesus on the cross which should not be overlooked. It is a fact that Urantia has become known among other neighboring inhabited planets as the “World of the Cross.”
(2016.7) 188:4.2 Jesus desired to live a full mortal life in the flesh on Urantia. Death is, ordinarily, a part of life. Death is the last act in the mortal drama. In your well-meant efforts to escape the superstitious errors of the false interpretation of the meaning of the death on the cross, you should be careful not to make the great mistake of failing to perceive the true significance and the genuine import of the Master’s death.

(2016.8) 188:4.3 Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil-doing of his ancestors. Neither was the Master’s death on the cross a sacrifice which consisted in an effort to pay God a debt which the race of mankind had come to owe him. *

(2016.9) 188:4.4 Before Jesus lived on earth, you might possibly have been justified in believing in such a God, but not since the Master lived and died among your fellow mortals. Moses taught the dignity and justice of a Creator God; but Jesus portrayed the love and mercy of a heavenly Father.

(2016.10) 188:4.5 The animal nature — the tendency toward evil-doing — may be hereditary, but sin is not transmitted from parent to child. Sin is the act of conscious and deliberate rebellion against the Father’s will and the Sons’ laws by an individual will creature. *

(2017.1) 188:4.6 Jesus lived and died for a whole universe, not just for the races of this one world. While the mortals of the realms had salvation even before Jesus lived and died on Urantia, it is nevertheless a fact that his bestowal on this world greatly illuminated the way of salvation; his death did much to make forever plain the certainty of mortal survival after death in the flesh.

(2017.2) 188:4.7 Though it is hardly proper to speak of Jesus as a sacrificer, a ransomer, or a redeemer, it is wholly correct to refer to him as a savior. He forever made the way of salvation (survival) more clear and certain; he did better and more surely show the way of salvation for all the mortals of all the worlds of the universe of Nebadon.

(2017.3) 188:4.8 When once you grasp the idea of God as a true and loving Father, the only concept which Jesus ever taught, you must forthwith, in all consistency, utterly abandon all those primitive notions about God as an offended monarch, a stern and all-powerful ruler whose chief delight is to detect his subjects in wrongdoing and to see that they are adequately punished, unless some being almost equal to himself should volunteer to suffer for them, to die as a substitute and in their stead. The whole idea of ransom and atonement is incompatible with the concept of God as it was taught and exemplified by Jesus of Nazareth. The infinite love of God is not secondary to anything in the divine nature.

(2017.4) 188:4.9 All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and grounded in selfishness. Jesus taught that service to one’s fellows is the highest concept of the brotherhood of spirit believers. Salvation should be taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God. The believer’s chief concern should not be the selfish desire for personal salvation but rather the unselfish urge to love and, therefore, serve one’s fellows even as Jesus loved and served mortal men.

(2017.5) 188:4.10 Neither do genuine believers trouble themselves so much about the future punishment of sin. The real believer is only concerned about present separation from God. True, wise fathers may chasten their sons, but they do all this in love and for corrective purposes. They do not punish in anger, neither do they chastise in retribution.

(2017.6) 188:4.11 Even if God were the stern and legal monarch of a universe in which justice ruled supreme, he certainly would not be satisfied with the childish scheme of substituting an innocent sufferer for a guilty offender.

(2017.7) 188:4.12 The great thing about the death of Jesus, as it is related to the enrichment of human experience and the enlargement of the way of salvation, is not the fact of his death but rather the superb manner and the matchless spirit in which he met death.

(2017.8) 188:4.13 This entire idea of the ransom of the atonement places salvation upon a plane of unreality; such a concept is purely philosophic. Human salvation is real; it is based on two realities which may be grasped by the creature’s faith and thereby become incorporated into individual human experience: the fact of the fatherhood of God and its correlated truth, the brotherhood of man. It is true, after all, that you are to be “forgiven your debts, even as you forgive your debtors.”

5. Lessons from the Cross

(2017.9) 188:5.1 The cross of Jesus portrays the full measure of the supreme devotion of the true shepherd for even the unworthy members of his flock. It forever places all relations between God and man upon the family basis. God is the Father; man is his son. Love, the love of a father for his son, becomes the central truth in the universe relations of Creator and creature — not the justice of a king which seeks satisfaction in the sufferings and punishment of the evil-doing subject.

(2018.1) 188:5.2 The cross forever shows that the attitude of Jesus toward sinners was neither condemnation nor condonation, but rather eternal and loving salvation. Jesus is truly a savior in the sense that his life and death do win men over to goodness and righteous survival. Jesus loves men so much that his love awakens the response of love in the human heart. Love is truly contagious and eternally creative. Jesus’ death on the cross exemplifies a love which is sufficiently strong and divine to forgive sin and swallow up all evil-doing. Jesus disclosed to this world a higher quality of righteousness than justice — mere technical right and wrong. Divine love does not merely forgive wrongs; it absorbs and actually destroys them. The forgiveness of love utterly transcends the forgiveness of mercy. Mercy sets the guilt of evil-doing to one side; but love destroys forever the sin and all weakness resulting therefrom. Jesus brought a new method of living to Urantia. He taught us not to resist evil but to find through him a goodness which effectually destroys evil. The forgiveness of Jesus is not condonation; it is salvation from condemnation. Salvation does not slight wrongs; it makes them right. True love does not compromise nor condone hate; it destroys it. The love of Jesus is never satisfied with mere forgiveness. The Master’s love implies rehabilitation, eternal survival. It is altogether proper to speak of salvation as redemption if you mean this eternal rehabilitation.

(2018.2) 188:5.3 Jesus, by the power of his personal love for men, could break the hold of sin and evil. He thereby set men free to choose better ways of living. Jesus portrayed a deliverance from the past which in itself promised a triumph for the future. Forgiveness thus provided salvation. The beauty of divine love, once fully admitted to the human heart, forever destroys the charm of sin and the power of evil.

(2018.3) 188:5.4 The sufferings of Jesus were not confined to the crucifixion. In reality, Jesus of Nazareth spent upward of twenty-five years on the cross of a real and intense mortal existence. The real value of the cross consists in the fact that it was the supreme and final expression of his love, the completed revelation of his mercy.

(2018.4) 188:5.5 On millions of inhabited worlds, tens of trillions of evolving creatures who may have been tempted to give up the moral struggle and abandon the good fight of faith, have taken one more look at Jesus on the cross and then have forged on ahead, inspired by the sight of God’s laying down his incarnate life in devotion to the unselfish service of man.

(2018.5) 188:5.6 The triumph of the death on the cross is all summed up in the spirit of Jesus’ attitude toward those who assailed him. He made the cross an eternal symbol of the triumph of love over hate and the victory of truth over evil when he prayed, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” That devotion of love was contagious throughout a vast universe; the disciples caught it from their Master. The very first teacher of his gospel who was called upon to lay down his life in this service, said, as they stoned him to death, “Lay not this sin to their charge.”

(2018.6) 188:5.7 The cross makes a supreme appeal to the best in man because it discloses one who was willing to lay down his life in the service of his fellow men. Greater love no man can have than this: that he would be willing to lay down his life for his friends — and Jesus had such a love that he was willing to lay down his life for his enemies, a love greater than any which had hitherto been known on earth.

(2019.1) 188:5.8 On other worlds, as well as on Urantia, this sublime spectacle of the death of the human Jesus on the cross of Golgotha has stirred the emotions of mortals, while it has aroused the highest devotion of the angels.

(2019.2) 188:5.9 The cross is that high symbol of sacred service, the devotion of one’s life to the welfare and salvation of one’s fellows. The cross is not the symbol of the sacrifice of the innocent Son of God in the place of guilty sinners and in order to appease the wrath of an offended God, but it does stand forever, on earth and throughout a vast universe, as a sacred symbol of the good bestowing themselves upon the evil and thereby saving them by this very devotion of love. The cross does stand as the token of the highest form of unselfish service, the supreme devotion of the full bestowal of a righteous life in the service of wholehearted ministry, even in death, the death of the cross. And the very sight of this great symbol of the bestowal life of Jesus truly inspires all of us to want to go and do likewise.

(2019.3) 188:5.10 When thinking men and women look upon Jesus as he offers up his life on the cross, they will hardly again permit themselves to complain at even the severest hardships of life, much less at petty harassments and their many purely fictitious grievances. His life was so glorious and his death so triumphant that we are all enticed to a willingness to share both. There is true drawing power in the whole bestowal of Michael, from the days of his youth to this overwhelming spectacle of his death on the cross.

(2019.4) 188:5.11 Make sure, then, that when you view the cross as a revelation of God, you do not look with the eyes of the primitive man nor with the viewpoint of the later barbarian, both of whom regarded God as a relentless Sovereign of stern justice and rigid law-enforcement. Rather, make sure that you see in the cross the final manifestation of the love and devotion of Jesus to his life mission of bestowal upon the mortal races of his vast universe. See in the death of the Son of Man the climax of the unfolding of the Father’s divine love for his sons of the mortal spheres. The cross thus portrays the devotion of willing affection and the bestowal of voluntary salvation upon those who are willing to receive such gifts and devotion. There was nothing in the cross which the Father required — only that which Jesus so willingly gave, and which he refused to avoid.

(2019.5) 188:5.12 If man cannot otherwise appreciate Jesus and understand the meaning of his bestowal on earth, he can at least comprehend the fellowship of his mortal sufferings. No man can ever fear that the Creator does not know the nature or extent of his temporal afflictions.

(2019.6) 188:5.13 We know that the death on the cross was not to effect man’s reconciliation to God but to stimulate man’s realization of the Father’s eternal love and his Son’s unending mercy, and to broadcast these universal truths to a whole universe. [link to www.urantia.org] the white rose
haveatit (OP)
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11/22/2012 03:52 AM
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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
TO ALL, Meaning of the Death on the Cross


(2016.6) 188:4.1 Although Jesus did not die this death on the cross to atone for the racial guilt of mortal man nor to provide some sort of effective approach to an otherwise offended and unforgiving God; even though the Son of Man did not offer himself as a sacrifice to appease the wrath of God and to open the way for sinful man to obtain salvation; notwithstanding that these ideas of atonement and propitiation are erroneous, nonetheless, there are significances attached to this death of Jesus on the cross which should not be overlooked. It is a fact that Urantia has become known among other neighboring inhabited planets as the “World of the Cross.”
(2016.7) 188:4.2 Jesus desired to live a full mortal life in the flesh on Urantia. Death is, ordinarily, a part of life. Death is the last act in the mortal drama. In your well-meant efforts to escape the superstitious errors of the false interpretation of the meaning of the death on the cross, you should be careful not to make the great mistake of failing to perceive the true significance and the genuine import of the Master’s death.

(2016.8) 188:4.3 Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil-doing of his ancestors. Neither was the Master’s death on the cross a sacrifice which consisted in an effort to pay God a debt which the race of mankind had come to owe him. *

(2016.9) 188:4.4 Before Jesus lived on earth, you might possibly have been justified in believing in such a God, but not since the Master lived and died among your fellow mortals. Moses taught the dignity and justice of a Creator God; but Jesus portrayed the love and mercy of a heavenly Father.

(2016.10) 188:4.5 The animal nature — the tendency toward evil-doing — may be hereditary, but sin is not transmitted from parent to child. Sin is the act of conscious and deliberate rebellion against the Father’s will and the Sons’ laws by an individual will creature. *

(2017.1) 188:4.6 Jesus lived and died for a whole universe, not just for the races of this one world. While the mortals of the realms had salvation even before Jesus lived and died on Urantia, it is nevertheless a fact that his bestowal on this world greatly illuminated the way of salvation; his death did much to make forever plain the certainty of mortal survival after death in the flesh.

(2017.2) 188:4.7 Though it is hardly proper to speak of Jesus as a sacrificer, a ransomer, or a redeemer, it is wholly correct to refer to him as a savior. He forever made the way of salvation (survival) more clear and certain; he did better and more surely show the way of salvation for all the mortals of all the worlds of the universe of Nebadon.

(2017.3) 188:4.8 When once you grasp the idea of God as a true and loving Father, the only concept which Jesus ever taught, you must forthwith, in all consistency, utterly abandon all those primitive notions about God as an offended monarch, a stern and all-powerful ruler whose chief delight is to detect his subjects in wrongdoing and to see that they are adequately punished, unless some being almost equal to himself should volunteer to suffer for them, to die as a substitute and in their stead. The whole idea of ransom and atonement is incompatible with the concept of God as it was taught and exemplified by Jesus of Nazareth. The infinite love of God is not secondary to anything in the divine nature.

(2017.4) 188:4.9 All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and grounded in selfishness. Jesus taught that service to one’s fellows is the highest concept of the brotherhood of spirit believers. Salvation should be taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God. The believer’s chief concern should not be the selfish desire for personal salvation but rather the unselfish urge to love and, therefore, serve one’s fellows even as Jesus loved and served mortal men.

(2017.5) 188:4.10 Neither do genuine believers trouble themselves so much about the future punishment of sin. The real believer is only concerned about present separation from God. True, wise fathers may chasten their sons, but they do all this in love and for corrective purposes. They do not punish in anger, neither do they chastise in retribution.

(2017.6) 188:4.11 Even if God were the stern and legal monarch of a universe in which justice ruled supreme, he certainly would not be satisfied with the childish scheme of substituting an innocent sufferer for a guilty offender.

(2017.7) 188:4.12 The great thing about the death of Jesus, as it is related to the enrichment of human experience and the enlargement of the way of salvation, is not the fact of his death but rather the superb manner and the matchless spirit in which he met death.

(2017.8) 188:4.13 This entire idea of the ransom of the atonement places salvation upon a plane of unreality; such a concept is purely philosophic. Human salvation is real; it is based on two realities which may be grasped by the creature’s faith and thereby become incorporated into individual human experience: the fact of the fatherhood of God and its correlated truth, the brotherhood of man. It is true, after all, that you are to be “forgiven your debts, even as you forgive your debtors.”

5. Lessons from the Cross

(2017.9) 188:5.1 The cross of Jesus portrays the full measure of the supreme devotion of the true shepherd for even the unworthy members of his flock. It forever places all relations between God and man upon the family basis. God is the Father; man is his son. Love, the love of a father for his son, becomes the central truth in the universe relations of Creator and creature — not the justice of a king which seeks satisfaction in the sufferings and punishment of the evil-doing subject.

(2018.1) 188:5.2 The cross forever shows that the attitude of Jesus toward sinners was neither condemnation nor condonation, but rather eternal and loving salvation. Jesus is truly a savior in the sense that his life and death do win men over to goodness and righteous survival. Jesus loves men so much that his love awakens the response of love in the human heart. Love is truly contagious and eternally creative. Jesus’ death on the cross exemplifies a love which is sufficiently strong and divine to forgive sin and swallow up all evil-doing. Jesus disclosed to this world a higher quality of righteousness than justice — mere technical right and wrong. Divine love does not merely forgive wrongs; it absorbs and actually destroys them. The forgiveness of love utterly transcends the forgiveness of mercy. Mercy sets the guilt of evil-doing to one side; but love destroys forever the sin and all weakness resulting therefrom. Jesus brought a new method of living to Urantia. He taught us not to resist evil but to find through him a goodness which effectually destroys evil. The forgiveness of Jesus is not condonation; it is salvation from condemnation. Salvation does not slight wrongs; it makes them right. True love does not compromise nor condone hate; it destroys it. The love of Jesus is never satisfied with mere forgiveness. The Master’s love implies rehabilitation, eternal survival. It is altogether proper to speak of salvation as redemption if you mean this eternal rehabilitation.

(2018.2) 188:5.3 Jesus, by the power of his personal love for men, could break the hold of sin and evil. He thereby set men free to choose better ways of living. Jesus portrayed a deliverance from the past which in itself promised a triumph for the future. Forgiveness thus provided salvation. The beauty of divine love, once fully admitted to the human heart, forever destroys the charm of sin and the power of evil.

(2018.3) 188:5.4 The sufferings of Jesus were not confined to the crucifixion. In reality, Jesus of Nazareth spent upward of twenty-five years on the cross of a real and intense mortal existence. The real value of the cross consists in the fact that it was the supreme and final expression of his love, the completed revelation of his mercy.

(2018.4) 188:5.5 On millions of inhabited worlds, tens of trillions of evolving creatures who may have been tempted to give up the moral struggle and abandon the good fight of faith, have taken one more look at Jesus on the cross and then have forged on ahead, inspired by the sight of God’s laying down his incarnate life in devotion to the unselfish service of man.

(2018.5) 188:5.6 The triumph of the death on the cross is all summed up in the spirit of Jesus’ attitude toward those who assailed him. He made the cross an eternal symbol of the triumph of love over hate and the victory of truth over evil when he prayed, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” That devotion of love was contagious throughout a vast universe; the disciples caught it from their Master. The very first teacher of his gospel who was called upon to lay down his life in this service, said, as they stoned him to death, “Lay not this sin to their charge.”

(2018.6) 188:5.7 The cross makes a supreme appeal to the best in man because it discloses one who was willing to lay down his life in the service of his fellow men. Greater love no man can have than this: that he would be willing to lay down his life for his friends — and Jesus had such a love that he was willing to lay down his life for his enemies, a love greater than any which had hitherto been known on earth.

(2019.1) 188:5.8 On other worlds, as well as on Urantia, this sublime spectacle of the death of the human Jesus on the cross of Golgotha has stirred the emotions of mortals, while it has aroused the highest devotion of the angels.

(2019.2) 188:5.9 The cross is that high symbol of sacred service, the devotion of one’s life to the welfare and salvation of one’s fellows. The cross is not the symbol of the sacrifice of the innocent Son of God in the place of guilty sinners and in order to appease the wrath of an offended God, but it does stand forever, on earth and throughout a vast universe, as a sacred symbol of the good bestowing themselves upon the evil and thereby saving them by this very devotion of love. The cross does stand as the token of the highest form of unselfish service, the supreme devotion of the full bestowal of a righteous life in the service of wholehearted ministry, even in death, the death of the cross. And the very sight of this great symbol of the bestowal life of Jesus truly inspires all of us to want to go and do likewise.

(2019.3) 188:5.10 When thinking men and women look upon Jesus as he offers up his life on the cross, they will hardly again permit themselves to complain at even the severest hardships of life, much less at petty harassments and their many purely fictitious grievances. His life was so glorious and his death so triumphant that we are all enticed to a willingness to share both. There is true drawing power in the whole bestowal of Michael, from the days of his youth to this overwhelming spectacle of his death on the cross.

(2019.4) 188:5.11 Make sure, then, that when you view the cross as a revelation of God, you do not look with the eyes of the primitive man nor with the viewpoint of the later barbarian, both of whom regarded God as a relentless Sovereign of stern justice and rigid law-enforcement. Rather, make sure that you see in the cross the final manifestation of the love and devotion of Jesus to his life mission of bestowal upon the mortal races of his vast universe. See in the death of the Son of Man the climax of the unfolding of the Father’s divine love for his sons of the mortal spheres. The cross thus portrays the devotion of willing affection and the bestowal of voluntary salvation upon those who are willing to receive such gifts and devotion. There was nothing in the cross which the Father required — only that which Jesus so willingly gave, and which he refused to avoid.

(2019.5) 188:5.12 If man cannot otherwise appreciate Jesus and understand the meaning of his bestowal on earth, he can at least comprehend the fellowship of his mortal sufferings. No man can ever fear that the Creator does not know the nature or extent of his temporal afflictions.

(2019.6) 188:5.13 We know that the death on the cross was not to effect man’s reconciliation to God but to stimulate man’s realization of the Father’s eternal love and his Son’s unending mercy, and to broadcast these universal truths to a whole universe. [link to www.urantia.org] the white rose
 Quoting: the white rose


What a load of crap. A simple flower, contemplated earnestly, would yield more beauty than any tortured corpse nailed to a cross. Period. The cult of death must end. pdance
haveatit (OP)
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11/22/2012 04:57 AM
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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
Jesus

Helpful Lessons from the Life of Jesus

In the East, it is believed that there appears from time to time an individual who has come to usher in the next stage of human progress and evolution. This individual is more familiarly known as the "Avatar". Though that person has some new quality of being that the society is subconsciously ready for, more often than not it is spiritual in nature -- such as profound Wisdom and Knowledge, the expression of spiritual Bliss, a bringer of Silence and spiritual Peace, knowledge of the Soul, and so forth.

Jesus was the avatar who ushered in the spiritual quality of Love. When he arrived on the scene, this was a thing most needed in the world. Other Avatars such as Buddha and Krishna ushered in different dimensions of the spirit that the local society was ripe to acquire (e.g. Buddha – the end of suffering, Silence, and Compassion; Krishna -- Spiritual Bliss and Transcendent Connection to the Divine and within in the Soul). Jesus arrived to bring Love to the world. He did not have Integral Knowledge and Wisdom about the workings of life and other spiritual qualities, but he did feel Love -- for others, for Man, and for the Divine. This was something new and needed in the world. (One could look around at those times and ask why this was the case. E.g., the Romans were great for a thousand years in their organization of society, but had become machine-like, decadent, and even cruel.)

Jesus however actually died because he lacked one other particular aspect of spirit -- strength that is power. If he had this, he would never had died the way he did. He would have had the Power to avoid it. Which leads to the lesson of his death on the cross. This is the point where his message becomes less clear, perhaps even distorted. Whether or not he was crucified is less important than the message derived from that fact. The church decided that his suffering on the cross was the real cause of his divinity, suggesting that one must suffer greatly in life, even cruelly to reach the Divine. This is a distortion of spiritual truth.

It is not a crucified body that we want as the shining example of what we want to become, but a transformed and divinized being and body. We want to evolve not through intense physical or other types of suffering, which is false and morbid, but through personal growth, evolution, and transformation. We come to that by changing our lower nature, feeling the Divine presence, feeling spiritual bliss, acquiring Ultimate Wisdom, and yes by experiencing and embodying universal and Divine Love. Those who seek to play on his suffering, do Jesus' life a great disservice. It is at this point that religion has turned the Love of Jesus into something that can be said to approach Darkness.

Today (Easter week 2006) as Christians and others contemplate the life of Jesus, it is best to remember his message of Love, both mortal and Divine, which expresses through our selflessness and self-givingness, as well as through the highest spiritual values, such as openness, tolerance, and concern and respect for others. It ultimately expresses through our love and adoration of the Divine itself that is the source of all, that is all, and is also everywhere in our midst. Then everywhere we turn in life, we will constantly express love for everyone and everything around us.


[link to www.gurusoftware.com]
haveatit (OP)
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11/22/2012 05:24 AM
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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
Enjoy...

[link to www.aurobindo.ru]
haveatit (OP)
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11/22/2012 05:42 AM
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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
To hope for a true change of human life without a change of human nature is an irrational and unspiritual proposition; it is to ask for something unnatural and unreal, an impossible miracle.

– Sri Aurobindo (The Life Divine, p. 1059)

[link to aurobindo.ru]
Anonymous Coward
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11/22/2012 06:34 AM
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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
The cross is a 2 dimensional unfolding of a cube. The stone which the builders rejected. The tesseract is its four dimensional equivalent.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

You will notice the orthigonal projection that resembles an eight-pointed star within another eight-pointed star. The eight pointed star is tradionally associated with the morning star.

As for the cannibal accusations, from the Upanishads:

"I am the food... I am the eater... I am the link between... Who gives me protects me. I am food; who refuses to give me, I eat as food. I am this world and I eat this world. Who knows this, knows."
Anonymous Coward
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11/22/2012 06:37 AM
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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
Jesus however actually died because he lacked one other particular aspect of spirit -- strength that is power.
 Quoting: haveatit 26966270


Yeah, and Krishna died by being shot by an arrow. I suppose he was lacking a particular aspect of spirit else He wouldn't have died that way.
S.O.S.

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11/22/2012 06:40 AM

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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
It just occurred to me how bloody awful is the representation of a tortured corpse hanging from a cross as the symbol of a religion. Ugh. Barbarians. And people drink it up.
 Quoting: haveatit 26966270


OP, you are just starting to understand why God chose such a way to come and sacrifice His human body for your and my sin... it's not just torture but a curse. Jesus became a curse for your and my sin.... God sinking to the lowest depths of sin and humiliation for His love for us...

Ponder that OP...

Last Edited by S.O.S. on 11/22/2012 06:41 AM
SPAWN IS DEAD! LONG LIVE S.O.S. (Son of Spawn)!!!

Don't click it!!!! I'm warning you don't click that link.... no... no... STOP!!!!!

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Anonymous Coward
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11/22/2012 06:50 AM
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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
The cross is herp representation derp of herp so derp derp herp and berp jerp blah of Jeusus herp herp unto your derp herp Moses derp bread herp derp .
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11/22/2012 06:51 AM
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Re: Crucifixion is most unGodly & barbaric symbolism for a religion
TO ALL, Meaning of the Death on the Cross


(2016.6) 188:4.1 Although Jesus did not die this death on the cross to atone for the racial guilt of mortal man nor to provide some sort of effective approach to an otherwise offended and unforgiving God; even though the Son of Man did not offer himself as a sacrifice to appease the wrath of God and to open the way for sinful man to obtain salvation; notwithstanding that these ideas of atonement and propitiation are erroneous, nonetheless, there are significances attached to this death of Jesus on the cross which should not be overlooked. It is a fact that Urantia has become known among other neighboring inhabited planets as the “World of the Cross.”
(2016.7) 188:4.2 Jesus desired to live a full mortal life in the flesh on Urantia. Death is, ordinarily, a part of life. Death is the last act in the mortal drama. In your well-meant efforts to escape the superstitious errors of the false interpretation of the meaning of the death on the cross, you should be careful not to make the great mistake of failing to perceive the true significance and the genuine import of the Master’s death.

(2016.8) 188:4.3 Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil-doing of his ancestors. Neither was the Master’s death on the cross a sacrifice which consisted in an effort to pay God a debt which the race of mankind had come to owe him. *

(2016.9) 188:4.4 Before Jesus lived on earth, you might possibly have been justified in believing in such a God, but not since the Master lived and died among your fellow mortals. Moses taught the dignity and justice of a Creator God; but Jesus portrayed the love and mercy of a heavenly Father.

(2016.10) 188:4.5 The animal nature — the tendency toward evil-doing — may be hereditary, but sin is not transmitted from parent to child. Sin is the act of conscious and deliberate rebellion against the Father’s will and the Sons’ laws by an individual will creature. *

(2017.1) 188:4.6 Jesus lived and died for a whole universe, not just for the races of this one world. While the mortals of the realms had salvation even before Jesus lived and died on Urantia, it is nevertheless a fact that his bestowal on this world greatly illuminated the way of salvation; his death did much to make forever plain the certainty of mortal survival after death in the flesh.

(2017.2) 188:4.7 Though it is hardly proper to speak of Jesus as a sacrificer, a ransomer, or a redeemer, it is wholly correct to refer to him as a savior. He forever made the way of salvation (survival) more clear and certain; he did better and more surely show the way of salvation for all the mortals of all the worlds of the universe of Nebadon.

(2017.3) 188:4.8 When once you grasp the idea of God as a true and loving Father, the only concept which Jesus ever taught, you must forthwith, in all consistency, utterly abandon all those primitive notions about God as an offended monarch, a stern and all-powerful ruler whose chief delight is to detect his subjects in wrongdoing and to see that they are adequately punished, unless some being almost equal to himself should volunteer to suffer for them, to die as a substitute and in their stead. The whole idea of ransom and atonement is incompatible with the concept of God as it was taught and exemplified by Jesus of Nazareth. The infinite love of God is not secondary to anything in the divine nature.

(2017.4) 188:4.9 All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and grounded in selfishness. Jesus taught that service to one’s fellows is the highest concept of the brotherhood of spirit believers. Salvation should be taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God. The believer’s chief concern should not be the selfish desire for personal salvation but rather the unselfish urge to love and, therefore, serve one’s fellows even as Jesus loved and served mortal men.

(2017.5) 188:4.10 Neither do genuine believers trouble themselves so much about the future punishment of sin. The real believer is only concerned about present separation from God. True, wise fathers may chasten their sons, but they do all this in love and for corrective purposes. They do not punish in anger, neither do they chastise in retribution.

(2017.6) 188:4.11 Even if God were the stern and legal monarch of a universe in which justice ruled supreme, he certainly would not be satisfied with the childish scheme of substituting an innocent sufferer for a guilty offender.

(2017.7) 188:4.12 The great thing about the death of Jesus, as it is related to the enrichment of human experience and the enlargement of the way of salvation, is not the fact of his death but rather the superb manner and the matchless spirit in which he met death.

(2017.8) 188:4.13 This entire idea of the ransom of the atonement places salvation upon a plane of unreality; such a concept is purely philosophic. Human salvation is real; it is based on two realities which may be grasped by the creature’s faith and thereby become incorporated into individual human experience: the fact of the fatherhood of God and its correlated truth, the brotherhood of man. It is true, after all, that you are to be “forgiven your debts, even as you forgive your debtors.”

5. Lessons from the Cross

(2017.9) 188:5.1 The cross of Jesus portrays the full measure of the supreme devotion of the true shepherd for even the unworthy members of his flock. It forever places all relations between God and man upon the family basis. God is the Father; man is his son. Love, the love of a father for his son, becomes the central truth in the universe relations of Creator and creature — not the justice of a king which seeks satisfaction in the sufferings and punishment of the evil-doing subject.

(2018.1) 188:5.2 The cross forever shows that the attitude of Jesus toward sinners was neither condemnation nor condonation, but rather eternal and loving salvation. Jesus is truly a savior in the sense that his life and death do win men over to goodness and righteous survival. Jesus loves men so much that his love awakens the response of love in the human heart. Love is truly contagious and eternally creative. Jesus’ death on the cross exemplifies a love which is sufficiently strong and divine to forgive sin and swallow up all evil-doing. Jesus disclosed to this world a higher quality of righteousness than justice — mere technical right and wrong. Divine love does not merely forgive wrongs; it absorbs and actually destroys them. The forgiveness of love utterly transcends the forgiveness of mercy. Mercy sets the guilt of evil-doing to one side; but love destroys forever the sin and all weakness resulting therefrom. Jesus brought a new method of living to Urantia. He taught us not to resist evil but to find through him a goodness which effectually destroys evil. The forgiveness of Jesus is not condonation; it is salvation from condemnation. Salvation does not slight wrongs; it makes them right. True love does not compromise nor condone hate; it destroys it. The love of Jesus is never satisfied with mere forgiveness. The Master’s love implies rehabilitation, eternal survival. It is altogether proper to speak of salvation as redemption if you mean this eternal rehabilitation.

(2018.2) 188:5.3 Jesus, by the power of his personal love for men, could break the hold of sin and evil. He thereby set men free to choose better ways of living. Jesus portrayed a deliverance from the past which in itself promised a triumph for the future. Forgiveness thus provided salvation. The beauty of divine love, once fully admitted to the human heart, forever destroys the charm of sin and the power of evil.

(2018.3) 188:5.4 The sufferings of Jesus were not confined to the crucifixion. In reality, Jesus of Nazareth spent upward of twenty-five years on the cross of a real and intense mortal existence. The real value of the cross consists in the fact that it was the supreme and final expression of his love, the completed revelation of his mercy.

(2018.4) 188:5.5 On millions of inhabited worlds, tens of trillions of evolving creatures who may have been tempted to give up the moral struggle and abandon the good fight of faith, have taken one more look at Jesus on the cross and then have forged on ahead, inspired by the sight of God’s laying down his incarnate life in devotion to the unselfish service of man.

(2018.5) 188:5.6 The triumph of the death on the cross is all summed up in the spirit of Jesus’ attitude toward those who assailed him. He made the cross an eternal symbol of the triumph of love over hate and the victory of truth over evil when he prayed, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” That devotion of love was contagious throughout a vast universe; the disciples caught it from their Master. The very first teacher of his gospel who was called upon to lay down his life in this service, said, as they stoned him to death, “Lay not this sin to their charge.”

(2018.6) 188:5.7 The cross makes a supreme appeal to the best in man because it discloses one who was willing to lay down his life in the service of his fellow men. Greater love no man can have than this: that he would be willing to lay down his life for his friends — and Jesus had such a love that he was willing to lay down his life for his enemies, a love greater than any which had hitherto been known on earth.

(2019.1) 188:5.8 On other worlds, as well as on Urantia, this sublime spectacle of the death of the human Jesus on the cross of Golgotha has stirred the emotions of mortals, while it has aroused the highest devotion of the angels.

(2019.2) 188:5.9 The cross is that high symbol of sacred service, the devotion of one’s life to the welfare and salvation of one’s fellows. The cross is not the symbol of the sacrifice of the innocent Son of God in the place of guilty sinners and in order to appease the wrath of an offended God, but it does stand forever, on earth and throughout a vast universe, as a sacred symbol of the good bestowing themselves upon the evil and thereby saving them by this very devotion of love. The cross does stand as the token of the highest form of unselfish service, the supreme devotion of the full bestowal of a righteous life in the service of wholehearted ministry, even in death, the death of the cross. And the very sight of this great symbol of the bestowal life of Jesus truly inspires all of us to want to go and do likewise.

(2019.3) 188:5.10 When thinking men and women look upon Jesus as he offers up his life on the cross, they will hardly again permit themselves to complain at even the severest hardships of life, much less at petty harassments and their many purely fictitious grievances. His life was so glorious and his death so triumphant that we are all enticed to a willingness to share both. There is true drawing power in the whole bestowal of Michael, from the days of his youth to this overwhelming spectacle of his death on the cross.

(2019.4) 188:5.11 Make sure, then, that when you view the cross as a revelation of God, you do not look with the eyes of the primitive man nor with the viewpoint of the later barbarian, both of whom regarded God as a relentless Sovereign of stern justice and rigid law-enforcement. Rather, make sure that you see in the cross the final manifestation of the love and devotion of Jesus to his life mission of bestowal upon the mortal races of his vast universe. See in the death of the Son of Man the climax of the unfolding of the Father’s divine love for his sons of the mortal spheres. The cross thus portrays the devotion of willing affection and the bestowal of voluntary salvation upon those who are willing to receive such gifts and devotion. There was nothing in the cross which the Father required — only that which Jesus so willingly gave, and which he refused to avoid.

(2019.5) 188:5.12 If man cannot otherwise appreciate Jesus and understand the meaning of his bestowal on earth, he can at least comprehend the fellowship of his mortal sufferings. No man can ever fear that the Creator does not know the nature or extent of his temporal afflictions.

(2019.6) 188:5.13 We know that the death on the cross was not to effect man’s reconciliation to God but to stimulate man’s realization of the Father’s eternal love and his Son’s unending mercy, and to broadcast these universal truths to a whole universe. [link to www.urantia.org] the white rose
 Quoting: the white rose


Fraap frap frap frap.

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