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Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)

 
waterman

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11/21/2012 10:47 AM

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Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
There are 4 groups of people on the rapture:

Is your faith in Jesus Christ or is it in the rapture, It will be tested!

1. Pre-tribulation rapture
2. Mid-tribulation rapture
3. Post-tribulation rapture
4. No tribulation rapture


How long is tribulation?
The end of the age of grace is the beginning of the 70th week of daniel, or 7 year tribulation.


I think we all know that in the bible a day can equal a year or a day can equal a thousand years. In this next verse we see in the book of revelation the devil will throw some of you into prison that you may be tested 10 days. We will all be tested but some for only 42 months. Did you see it said "some of you will be tested 10 days(years), not all only some. Wouldn't that be nice if it was only 10 days..It is 10 years, 42 months before the 7 year tribulation for a total of 10 and a half year tribulation not 11 years but 10 and a half years
But look in Revelation 2:10 it says we have 10 days(years) of tribulation
Remember the church will be here until the beginning of the 7 year tribulation because the end of "the age of grace" doesn't come until the beginning of the last 7 years. Then those who remained faithful through the 42 months prior to the 7 will be in the rapture

Revelation 2:10

10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days(years). Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

There are 7 churches in Revelation, but we know there is only one church of God so these 7 churches are different levels of where people are in relationship to Jesus Christ.

God sends a strong delusion that if it were possible it would fool even the elect:
Watch!
1. We know the man of sin comes at the beginning of the 7 year tribulation. He makes a covenant with many for 1 week(7 years)
2 There was a great falling away first, why because 42 months of tribualation prior to the 7 year tribulation comes and there is no rapture, people lose faith in God.
3. The great delusion is there is a 42 month period prior to the 7 year tribulation to see who is faithful and who is only faithful to a rapture card.
<< 2 Thessalonians 2 >>
King James Version
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Revelation 3:10 KJV

In the above verse, Pre-tribbers claim that Jesus will rapture the church before the tribulation. They claim the "hour of temptation" refers to the tribulation and "I will also keep them from" refers to Jesus' removal of the church from the earth. When translators have written "I will also keep the from the hour...," pre-tribbers claim "kept from" should have been translated "kept out of."

Before we examine this part of scripture, we must examine the first part of Jesus' message to the Philadelphian church.

"And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, no man openeth;

"I know thy works, behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know I loved thee.

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep the from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." (the hour of temptation is the 7 year tribulation, how did you keep the word of His patience, you endured the 42 months prior to the 7 year tribulation that the preachers aren't telling you about) Don't worry little flock God won't let a single tribulation come to you.WRONG!

Jesus said These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

People don't be deceived we are all gonna go through the 42 months of tribulation prior to the 7 and that 42 months is the destruction of the united states and being carried captive into other countries, be faithful to Jesus through that and you will see a rapture.
Revelation 2:10

Revelation 2:10

King James Version (KJV)

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.


Last Edited by waterman on 11/26/2012 08:47 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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11/21/2012 11:01 AM
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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
wow,thanks alot for this.ive been searching for the truth of what is ment by the ten days of sorrows mentioned in revalation.i came to the conclusion that the ten years mentioned run alongside with the trib,starting 3 years before the trib which i think is what your saying.but bare in mind also that we are told throughout the bible to watch for the third day,so is this 3rd day the third in the ten,or the third in the 7??? Any thougjts on this?
Anonymous Coward
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11/21/2012 11:13 AM
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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
i really do think that all innocent children and everyone who has the holy spirit within them will be removed and housed in the barn of the lord for seven years,whilst the earth goes through the wrath of god and satan.whatever his will is ,its good enough for me.i will be faithfull to the end no matter that
Anonymous Coward
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11/21/2012 11:17 AM
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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
i really do think that all innocent children and everyone who has the holy spirit within them will be removed and housed in the barn of the lord for seven years,whilst the earth goes through the wrath of god and satan.whatever his will is ,its good enough for me.i will be faithfull to the end no matter that
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15141901


THERE WILL BE NO RUN AWAY BRIDE... THE CHURCH HAS A MISSION TO COMPLETE FOR OUR SAVIOR
waterman (OP)

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11/21/2012 11:22 AM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
i really do think that all innocent children and everyone who has the holy spirit within them will be removed and housed in the barn of the lord for seven years,whilst the earth goes through the wrath of god and satan.whatever his will is ,its good enough for me.i will be faithfull to the end no matter that
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15141901


I agree there will be a rapture at the beginning of the 7 year tribulation, but I also believe there is 42 months prior to that which will see if the people were putting faith in a rapture or putting faith in God. When the destruction of Israel came in the bible which is a foreshadow of the united states women and children were not spared. That 42 months is gonna be very trying on what you believe. Always remember God will never leave you or forsake you though it may look like it for a short period remain faithful. Jesus himself said My God My God why have you forsaken me. Don't go by what you feel, go by what scripture says "God will never leave you or forsake you"
Heed the warning or endure the mourning
waterman (OP)

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11/21/2012 11:51 AM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
wow,thanks alot for this.ive been searching for the truth of what is ment by the ten days of sorrows mentioned in revalation.i came to the conclusion that the ten years mentioned run alongside with the trib,starting 3 years before the trib which i think is what your saying.but bare in mind also that we are told throughout the bible to watch for the third day,so is this 3rd day the third in the ten,or the third in the 7??? Any thoughts on this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15141901


To me in the book of Isaiah, Jeremiah,and the prophets showing the destruction of Israel is the foreshadow of the exact same thing that will happen to America. It will be a furnace of affliction to bring Gods children back to Him. People are too engrossed in electronics, houses, cars...etc..they worship the created more than the creator. When God gets rid of all of that and only the creator is left it makes it easier to chose what to pay attention to.

When you see in daniel the bear with 3 ribs in its mouth, that is symbolizing the 3 years(42 months) of captivity of America. God is bringing two witnesses to lead the people, a Moses and Aaron type. It doesn't matter if you want to call them Adam and Eve, Moses and Aaron, Enoch and Elijah, they will be two men that come out of that furnace of affliction.
The one witness will be greater than the other just as Zerubabbel was king and Joshua was priest in the book of zechariah and build the temple physically the first time, in the end they build the spiritual temple of God. When you become a follower of Jesus Christ you become the spiritual temple of God that can't be destroyed as the other 2 temples were
2nd Corinthians 6:16:
6:16 What agreement has a temple of God with idols? For you are a temple of the living God. Even as God said, "I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people."

The mission of the two witnesses is to turn the part of the church who didn't remain faithful in the first 42 months of tribulation and have to endure the following 7 year tribulation back to God and the 2nd part of their mission is to get the other 2 tribes of Israel(Judah and Benjamin)to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior repent, and turn from sin, so that both houses of Israel are one again,Israel split into 2 kingdoms after the reign of solomon(10 lost tribes which made up the northern kingdom and the 2 tribes of Judah and benjamin the southern kingdom that make up geographical Israel today) You can read how this servant will join these two houses of Israel together in Ezekiel 37

Ezekiel 21 shows the destruction of the united states and being the servant of God comes from there you see the overturn overturn overturn 3 times again indicating 3 years of captivity and furnace of affliction before Gods servant receives the crown:
Ezek 21:
18The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, 19Also, thou son of man, appoint thee two ways, that the sword of the king of Babylon may come: both twain shall come forth out of one land: and choose thou a place, choose it at the head of the way to the city. 20Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced. 21For the king of Babylon stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright(nuclear weapons), he consulted with images(computers), he looked in the liver. 22At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem(washington d.c), to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort. 23And it shall be unto them as a false divination(computers say everything is fine) in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths(do you swear to uphold the law....): but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken(united states destoryed).

24Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand. 25And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel(president), whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end, 26Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown(symbol of authority): this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low(last day servant of God), and abase him that is high(president). 27I will overturn(1 year of captivity), overturn(2nd year of captivity), overturn(3rd year of captivity), it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is(last day servant); and I will give it him(last day servatnt. )

Last Edited by waterman on 11/21/2012 12:00 PM
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Dr_Kynes
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11/21/2012 12:00 PM
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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
To those of you who keep harping on wanting to entering the TRIBULATION, may the Lord grant you that wish.

For those of us who look forward to the Hope of being with Him and Seeing Him much sooner, the ones you call pre-tribbers, I am more than happy to be among this group and out of here before the TRIBULATION starts.

The Lord give to every one of you who wish to enter TRIBULATION your desire.

In Jesus Christ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 720033


Your prayer is based on ignorance of the word of God.

Unless you die before the tribulation starts, you will be in it.....most likely martyred by the BEAST.

Of course not all will die......but 10's of millions probably will be beheaded.

You have false hope if you think Jesus will come early to catch you up.

Assuming you don't die a natural or un-natural death before the Great Tribulation starts....You will See Babylon Fall and the Rise of the Beast.

Best get your heart prepared....you maybe have to leave family and friends or co-workers that decide to follow the beast and take his Mark and name. Those that do that will persecute all those that Cling to Jesus.

I'd suggest you cling to Jesus and get your heart ready for terrible tribulation
OutdoorsMan

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11/21/2012 12:06 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
To those of you who keep harping on wanting to entering the TRIBULATION, may the Lord grant you that wish.

For those of us who look forward to the Hope of being with Him and Seeing Him much sooner, the ones you call pre-tribbers, I am more than happy to be among this group and out of here before the TRIBULATION starts.

The Lord give to every one of you who wish to enter TRIBULATION your desire.

In Jesus Christ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 720033


Your prayer is based on ignorance of the word of God.

Unless you die before the tribulation starts, you will be in it.....most likely martyred by the BEAST.

Of course not all will die......but 10's of millions probably will be beheaded.

You have false hope if you think Jesus will come early to catch you up.

Assuming you don't die a natural or un-natural death before the Great Tribulation starts....You will See Babylon Fall and the Rise of the Beast.

Best get your heart prepared....you maybe have to leave family and friends or co-workers that decide to follow the beast and take his Mark and name. Those that do that will persecute all those that Cling to Jesus.

I'd suggest you cling to Jesus and get your heart ready for terrible tribulation
 Quoting: Dr_Kynes 4209135



Your right we will be in the tribulation. But I dont think you're right about 10's of millions being beheaded.

The antichrist is going to pretend to be Christ, if he was a violent socialpath killing everyone who didn't agree with him then people wouldn't be too willing to like this guy, would they?

The death and killing mentioned are in the spiritual sense. Common sense would tell us that he will try to be peaceful and loving to convert the world and unite the religions.
waterman (OP)

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11/21/2012 12:08 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
Remember that if you find yourself still here after the RAPTURE took place.

YOU DESIRED IT SO.

In Jesus Christ!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 720033


I've actually said prayers to leave me behind if there's a rapture, my friends and a lot of my family are so lost. Somebody has to tell them not to take the mark of the beast and to repent lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 13039567


The elite have absolutely corrupted the churches. I got a Jehovah witness pamphlet talking about how we need a world government yesterday.

The elite have put the FALSE rapture theory in the churches. They have spent billions of dollars advertising this lie.

JESUS WILL NOT COME BACK UNTIL THE 7TH TRUMP.

If we love him then we will not face his wrath, what wrath can the antichrist offer that can compete with the Lords?
 Quoting: OutdoorsMan


The 7 churches in revelation are the 7 levels of christians and one level is being kept from the 7 year tribulation because they endured the 42 months prior and remained faithful to Jesus and not just faithful to a promise of a rapture:
"And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, no man openeth;

"I know thy works(what works, the works of remaining faithful during the 42 months prior to the 7 year tribulation), behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know I loved thee.

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep the from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Last Edited by waterman on 11/21/2012 12:09 PM
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McMiller
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11/21/2012 12:09 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
wow,thanks alot for this.ive been searching for the truth of what is ment by the ten days of sorrows mentioned in revalation.i came to the conclusion that the ten years mentioned run alongside with the trib,starting 3 years before the trib which i think is what your saying.but bare in mind also that we are told throughout the bible to watch for the third day,so is this 3rd day the third in the ten,or the third in the 7??? Any thoughts on this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15141901


To me in the book of Isaiah, Jeremiah,and the prophets showing the destruction of Israel is the foreshadow of the exact same thing that will happen to America. It will be a furnace of affliction to bring Gods children back to Him. People are too engrossed in electronics, houses, cars...etc..they worship the created more than the creator. When God gets rid of all of that and only the creator is left it makes it easier to chose what to pay attention to.

When you see in daniel the bear with 3 ribs in its mouth, that is symbolizing the 3 years(42 months) of captivity of America. God is bringing two witnesses to lead the people, a Moses and Aaron type. It doesn't matter if you want to call them Adam and Eve, Moses and Aaron, Enoch and Elijah, they will be two men that come out of that furnace of affliction.
The one witness will be greater than the other just as Zerubabbel was king and Joshua was priest in the book of zechariah and build the temple physically the first time, in the end they build the spiritual temple of God. When you become a follower of Jesus Christ you become the spiritual temple of God that can't be destroyed as the other 2 temples were
2nd Corinthians 6:16:
6:16 What agreement has a temple of God with idols? For you are a temple of the living God. Even as God said, "I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people."

The mission of the two witnesses is to turn the part of the church who didn't remain faithful in the first 42 months of tribulation and have to endure the following 7 year tribulation back to God and the 2nd part of their mission is to get the other 2 tribes of Israel(Judah and Benjamin)to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior repent, and turn from sin, so that both houses of Israel are one again,Israel split into 2 kingdoms after the reign of solomon(10 lost tribes which made up the northern kingdom and the 2 tribes of Judah and benjamin the southern kingdom that make up geographical Israel today) You can read how this servant will join these two houses of Israel together in Ezekiel 37

Ezekiel 21 shows the destruction of the united states and being the servant of God comes from there you see the overturn overturn overturn 3 times again indicating 3 years of captivity and furnace of affliction before Gods servant receives the crown:
Ezek 21:
18The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, 19Also, thou son of man, appoint thee two ways, that the sword of the king of Babylon may come: both twain shall come forth out of one land: and choose thou a place, choose it at the head of the way to the city. 20Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced. 21For the king of Babylon stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright(nuclear weapons), he consulted with images(computers), he looked in the liver. 22At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem(washington d.c), to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort. 23And it shall be unto them as a false divination(computers say everything is fine) in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths(do you swear to uphold the law....): but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken(united states destoryed).

24Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand. 25And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel(president), whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end, 26Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown(symbol of authority): this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low(last day servant of God), and abase him that is high(president). 27I will overturn(1 year of captivity), overturn(2nd year of captivity), overturn(3rd year of captivity), it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is(last day servant); and I will give it him(last day servatnt. )
 Quoting: waterman



Sorry I copy and Pasted but this is the Bear in Daniel, it mirrors the statue in Daniel 2

Read Daniel 8. Notice that the beasts in chapter 8 parallel those in chapter 7. Daniel 8:20 specifically names Medo-Persia as the kingdom that precedes the rough goat, or Greece, of verse 21. It is the second world kingdom--the same power as the bear of Daniel 7. The empire was made up of two groups of people. The Medes came up first (represented in Daniel 7:5 by the bear coming up on one side), but the Persians eventually became stronger (represented in Daniel 8:3 by the ram?s second horn which grew "higher," or taller). The three ribs represent the three principal powers conquered by Medo-Persia: Lydia, Babylon, and Egypt.
Mi'Kmaq

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11/21/2012 12:14 PM
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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
Those who die during the tribulation as Rev 6:11 states are what every one believes is rapture................sheep
waterman (OP)

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11/21/2012 12:14 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
wow,thanks alot for this.ive been searching for the truth of what is ment by the ten days of sorrows mentioned in revalation.i came to the conclusion that the ten years mentioned run alongside with the trib,starting 3 years before the trib which i think is what your saying.but bare in mind also that we are told throughout the bible to watch for the third day,so is this 3rd day the third in the ten,or the third in the 7??? Any thoughts on this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15141901


To me in the book of Isaiah, Jeremiah,and the prophets showing the destruction of Israel is the foreshadow of the exact same thing that will happen to America. It will be a furnace of affliction to bring Gods children back to Him. People are too engrossed in electronics, houses, cars...etc..they worship the created more than the creator. When God gets rid of all of that and only the creator is left it makes it easier to chose what to pay attention to.

When you see in daniel the bear with 3 ribs in its mouth, that is symbolizing the 3 years(42 months) of captivity of America. God is bringing two witnesses to lead the people, a Moses and Aaron type. It doesn't matter if you want to call them Adam and Eve, Moses and Aaron, Enoch and Elijah, they will be two men that come out of that furnace of affliction.
The one witness will be greater than the other just as Zerubabbel was king and Joshua was priest in the book of zechariah and build the temple physically the first time, in the end they build the spiritual temple of God. When you become a follower of Jesus Christ you become the spiritual temple of God that can't be destroyed as the other 2 temples were
2nd Corinthians 6:16:
6:16 What agreement has a temple of God with idols? For you are a temple of the living God. Even as God said, "I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they will be my people."

The mission of the two witnesses is to turn the part of the church who didn't remain faithful in the first 42 months of tribulation and have to endure the following 7 year tribulation back to God and the 2nd part of their mission is to get the other 2 tribes of Israel(Judah and Benjamin)to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior repent, and turn from sin, so that both houses of Israel are one again,Israel split into 2 kingdoms after the reign of solomon(10 lost tribes which made up the northern kingdom and the 2 tribes of Judah and benjamin the southern kingdom that make up geographical Israel today) You can read how this servant will join these two houses of Israel together in Ezekiel 37

Ezekiel 21 shows the destruction of the united states and being the servant of God comes from there you see the overturn overturn overturn 3 times again indicating 3 years of captivity and furnace of affliction before Gods servant receives the crown:
Ezek 21:
18The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, 19Also, thou son of man, appoint thee two ways, that the sword of the king of Babylon may come: both twain shall come forth out of one land: and choose thou a place, choose it at the head of the way to the city. 20Appoint a way, that the sword may come to Rabbath of the Ammonites, and to Judah in Jerusalem the defenced. 21For the king of Babylon stood at the parting of the way, at the head of the two ways, to use divination: he made his arrows bright(nuclear weapons), he consulted with images(computers), he looked in the liver. 22At his right hand was the divination for Jerusalem(washington d.c), to appoint captains, to open the mouth in the slaughter, to lift up the voice with shouting, to appoint battering rams against the gates, to cast a mount, and to build a fort. 23And it shall be unto them as a false divination(computers say everything is fine) in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths(do you swear to uphold the law....): but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken(united states destoryed).

24Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand. 25And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel(president), whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end, 26Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown(symbol of authority): this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low(last day servant of God), and abase him that is high(president). 27I will overturn(1 year of captivity), overturn(2nd year of captivity), overturn(3rd year of captivity), it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is(last day servant); and I will give it him(last day servatnt. )
 Quoting: waterman



Sorry I copy and Pasted but this is the Bear in Daniel, it mirrors the statue in Daniel 2

Read Daniel 8. Notice that the beasts in chapter 8 parallel those in chapter 7. Daniel 8:20 specifically names Medo-Persia as the kingdom that precedes the rough goat, or Greece, of verse 21. It is the second world kingdom--the same power as the bear of Daniel 7. The empire was made up of two groups of people. The Medes came up first (represented in Daniel 7:5 by the bear coming up on one side), but the Persians eventually became stronger (represented in Daniel 8:3 by the ram?s second horn which grew "higher," or taller). The three ribs represent the three principal powers conquered by Medo-Persia: Lydia, Babylon, and Egypt.
 Quoting: McMiller


thanks for that as we all know there are many layers and many meanings to scripture. Thats a great thing about scripture it shows us foreshdows and metaphors from the beginning up to even the last days. Amazing Book the bible, tells us the past, the present, and the future just as Jesus is the Word and is the same yesterday, today and forever

You might also enjoy my link on the 2 Isreals at the bottom of this page is a blue link

Last Edited by waterman on 11/21/2012 12:16 PM
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waterman (OP)

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11/21/2012 12:25 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
America is spiritual Israel (lost 10 tribes of Israel)though they are unaware of it right now, and will throw rocks and cuss and say "no we aren't" and geographical Israel is the other 2 tribes (Judah and benjamin)

We know American is the lost 10 tribes because God put them in the land of milk and honey(united states, greatest kingdom ever) just as HE said He would. Now the children of God have turned away from God and are too busy with their idols. United States got all the blessings of Deuteronomy 28 but have turned away form God and will receive the curses..God can't lie if God says you will receive the curses for turning from God your gonna get the curses and you will get them for 42 months prior to the 7 year tribulation..turn your heart toward God during those 42 months and he will keep you from those 7 years...here are the blessings and curses of deuteronomy 28 and you will see how bad this will get during the 42 months prior to the 7 year tribulation:

read the blessings and curses of those who follow God. America received everyone of those blessings, and be sure now that they have turned from God the will receive every curse:

Blessings on Obedience

28 “Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that the Lord your God will set you high above all nations of the earth.(united states) 2 And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, because you obey the voice of the Lord your God:

3 “Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the country.

4 “Blessed shall be the fruit of your body, the produce of your ground and the increase of your herds, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks.

5 “Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.

6 “Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out.

7 “The Lord will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before your face; they shall come out against you one way and flee before you seven ways.

8 “The Lord will command the blessing on you in your storehouses and in all to which you set your hand, and He will bless you in the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

9 “The Lord will establish you as a holy people to Himself, just as He has sworn to you, if you keep the commandments of the Lord your God and walk in His ways. 10 Then all peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the Lord, and they shall be afraid of you. 11 And the Lord will grant you plenty of goods, in the fruit of your body, in the increase of your livestock, and in the produce of your ground, in the land of which the Lord swore to your fathers to give you. 12 The Lord will open to you His good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season, and to bless all the work of your hand. You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. 13 And the Lord will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not be beneath, if you heed the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, and are careful to observe them. 14 So you shall not turn aside from any of the words which I command you this day, to the right or the left, to go after other gods to serve them.

Curses on Disobedience

15 “But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

16 “Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the country.

17 “Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.

18 “Cursed shall be the fruit of your body and the produce of your land, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks.

19 “Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.

20 “The Lord will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me. 21 The Lord will make the plague cling to you until He has consumed you from the land which you are going to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with severe burning fever, with the sword, with scorching, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish. 23 And your heavens which are over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you shall be iron. 24 The Lord will change the rain of your land to powder and dust; from the heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed.

25 “The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 Your carcasses shall be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and no one shall frighten them away. 27 The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, with tumors, with the scab, and with the itch, from which you cannot be healed. 28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart. 29 And you shall grope at noonday, as a blind man gropes in darkness; you shall not prosper in your ways; you shall be only oppressed and plundered continually, and no one shall save you.

30 “You shall betroth a wife, but another man shall lie with her; you shall build a house, but you shall not dwell in it; you shall plant a vineyard, but shall not gather its grapes. 31 Your ox shall be slaughtered before your eyes, but you shall not eat of it; your donkey shall be violently taken away from before you, and shall not be restored to you; your sheep shall be given to your enemies, and you shall have no one to rescue them. 32 Your sons and your daughters shall be given to another people, and your eyes shall look and fail with longing for them all day long; and there shall be no strength in your hand. 33 A nation whom you have not known shall eat the fruit of your land and the produce of your labor, and you shall be only oppressed and crushed continually. 34 So you shall be driven mad because of the sight which your eyes see. 35 The Lord will strike you in the knees and on the legs with severe boils which cannot be healed, and from the sole of your foot to the top of your head.

36 “The Lord will bring you and the king whom you set over you to a nation which neither you nor your fathers have known, and there you shall serve other gods—wood and stone. 37 And you shall become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword among all nations where the Lord will drive you.

38 “You shall carry much seed out to the field but gather little in, for the locust shall consume it. 39 You shall plant vineyards and tend them, but you shall neither drink of the wine nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them. 40 You shall have olive trees throughout all your territory, but you shall not anoint yourself with the oil; for your olives shall drop off. 41 You shall beget sons and daughters, but they shall not be yours; for they shall go into captivity. 42 Locusts shall consume all your trees and the produce of your land.

43 “The alien who is among you shall rise higher and higher above you, and you shall come down lower and lower. 44 He shall lend to you, but you shall not lend to him; he shall be the head, and you shall be the tail.

45 “Moreover all these curses shall come upon you and pursue and overtake you, until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you. 46 And they shall be upon you for a sign and a wonder, and on your descendants forever.

47 “Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joy and gladness of heart, for the abundance of everything, 48 therefore you shall serve your enemies, whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger, in thirst, in nakedness, and in need of everything; and He will put a yoke of iron on your neck until He has destroyed you. 49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flies, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a nation of fierce countenance, which does not respect the elderly nor show favor to the young. 51 And they shall eat the increase of your livestock and the produce of your land, until you are destroyed; they shall not leave you grain or new wine or oil, or the increase of your cattle or the offspring of your flocks, until they have destroyed you.

52 “They shall besiege you at all your gates until your high and fortified walls, in which you trust, come down throughout all your land; and they shall besiege you at all your gates throughout all your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 You shall eat the fruit of your own body, the flesh of your sons and your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you. 54 The sensitive and very refined man among you will be hostile toward his brother, toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the rest of his children whom he leaves behind, 55 so that he will not give any of them the flesh of his children whom he will eat, because he has nothing left in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates. 56 The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because of her delicateness and sensitivity, will refuse[a] to the husband of her bosom, and to her son and her daughter, 57 her placenta which comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of everything in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates.

58 “If you do not carefully observe all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, THE LORD YOUR GOD, 59 then the Lord will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues—great and prolonged plagues—and serious and prolonged sicknesses. 60 Moreover He will bring back on you all the diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you. 61 Also every sickness and every plague, which is not written in this Book of the Law, will the Lord bring upon you until you are destroyed. 62 You shall be left few in number, whereas you were as the stars of heaven in multitude, because you would not obey the voice of the Lord your God. 63 And it shall be, that just as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good and multiply you, so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you and bring you to nothing; and you shall be plucked from off the land which you go to possess.

64 “Then the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods, which neither you nor your fathers have known—wood and stone. 65 And among those nations you shall find no rest, nor shall the sole of your foot have a resting place; but there the Lord will give you a trembling heart, failing eyes, and anguish of soul. 66 Your life shall hang in doubt before you; you shall fear day and night, and have no assurance of life. 67 In the morning you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were evening!’ And at evening you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were morning!’ because of the fear which terrifies your heart, and because of the sight which your eyes see.

68 “And the Lord will take you back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said to you, ‘You shall never see it again.’ And there you shall be offered for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.”


Last Edited by waterman on 11/21/2012 12:29 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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11/21/2012 12:25 PM
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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
It's really interesting to see that there are out there "scholars" of the Holy Scriptures

I have a question for u all

There's always been a Prophet reclaiming our responsibility to hear the Word

Dont u think we'll have one? If yes, how u can recognize him?
waterman (OP)

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11/21/2012 12:34 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
Read Matthew24:21 thru Matthew24:31
To sum it up for you the tribulation comes and God will shorten the days for the elect's sake then after the tribulation the sun and moon goes dark and stars fall and the powers of heavens are shaken then God sends his angels to gather the elect... sorry but if the elect will go thru the tribulation so will everyone else. End of debate.
 Quoting: BULLY! BULLY!


Did you read the thread? Everyone goes through the first 42 months but those that remain faithful during that period and didn't just have faith in a rapture will not endure the 7 year tribulation
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OutdoorsMan

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11/21/2012 12:34 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
Read Matthew24:21 thru Matthew24:31
To sum it up for you the tribulation comes and God will shorten the days for the elect's sake then after the tribulation the sun and moon goes dark and stars fall and the powers of heavens are shaken then God sends his angels to gather the elect... sorry but if the elect will go thru the tribulation so will everyone else. End of debate.
 Quoting: BULLY! BULLY!


Well that's written in the Bible, so people won't believe it.

They would rather listen to non-Biblical traditions of man.

It's so easy to prove we endure until the 7th trump, but these people think they are so special they will fly away before it comes.

Even the apostles endured tribulation, but they all think they are better than them I guess.
waterman (OP)

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11/21/2012 12:48 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
Read Matthew24:21 thru Matthew24:31
To sum it up for you the tribulation comes and God will shorten the days for the elect's sake then after the tribulation the sun and moon goes dark and stars fall and the powers of heavens are shaken then God sends his angels to gather the elect... sorry but if the elect will go thru the tribulation so will everyone else. End of debate.
 Quoting: BULLY! BULLY!


Did you read the thread? Everyone goes through the first 42 months but those that remain faithful during that period and didn't just have faith in a rapture will not endure the 7 year tribulation
 Quoting: waterman


Did you even read Matthew, or Luke 13?

The tribulation was shortened for the sake of the elect. It won't be 7 years.
 Quoting: OutdoorsMan


It won't be 7 lunar years it will be 7 prophetic years...lunar years are 365 days, prophetic year are 360 days..it will be shortened!

Last Edited by waterman on 11/21/2012 12:51 PM
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Jesus Christ is the way

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11/21/2012 03:26 PM
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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
Remember that if you find yourself still here after the RAPTURE took place.

YOU DESIRED IT SO.

In Jesus Christ!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward Judgy McHarsh


applause
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578

Copied and pasted from KJV biblegateway.com
Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Revelation 7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;READ!!!!! THIS IS CONCURRENT WITH THE SEALING OF THE 144,000 (LEFT BEHIND WITH THE TWO WITNESSES AMONG THEM TO TESTIFY) THEY WILL NOT BE HARMED. THEY ARE WRITTEN INTO THE BOOK OF LIFE AND SEALED WITH THE NAME OF GOD. THE TWO WITNESSES WILL BE KILLED BY satan.

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, READ!!! CAME OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION!!!!! and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
THIS CLEARLY HAPPENS BEFORE THE SEVENTH SEAL IS OPENED DURING THE TRIBULATION!!!!!!! WHEN THE WORLDWIDE EARTHQUAKE TAKES PLACE AND CELESTIAL WOES OCCUR, AND THEN>>> THE WINDS STOP. LOOK OUT!!!!!!


Last Edited by Jesus Christ is the way on 11/21/2012 03:28 PM
Lisa*Lisa

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11/21/2012 03:29 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
Well, all I know is that it happens at the 7th trumpet blast. I have no idea when that is becasue I don't know where we are right now in the timeline and neither does anyone else.

So, I"m a "pan-tribber" as one of my friends says. However it pans out is ok with me.

hf
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Jesus Christ is the way

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11/21/2012 03:36 PM
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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
Well, all I know is that it happens at the 7th trumpet blast. I have no idea when that is becasue I don't know where we are right now in the timeline and neither does anyone else.

So, I"m a "pan-tribber" as one of my friends says. However it pans out is ok with me.

hf
 Quoting: Lisa*Lisa


If people are here after the seventh seal is opened,then they are either of the two witnesses and the 144,000 or of the rest who have rejected Jesus Christ as a Savior and not written into the Book of Life.
waterman (OP)

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11/21/2012 03:45 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
Remember that if you find yourself still here after the RAPTURE took place.

YOU DESIRED IT SO.

In Jesus Christ!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward Judgy McHarsh


applause
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578

Copied and pasted from KJV biblegateway.com
Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Revelation 7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;READ!!!!! THIS IS CONCURRENT WITH THE SEALING OF THE 144,000 (LEFT BEHIND WITH THE TWO WITNESSES AMONG THEM TO TESTIFY) THEY WILL NOT BE HARMED. THEY ARE WRITTEN INTO THE BOOK OF LIFE AND SEALED WITH THE NAME OF GOD. THE TWO WITNESSES WILL BE KILLED BY satan.

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, READ!!! CAME OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION!!!!! and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
THIS CLEARLY HAPPENS BEFORE THE SEVENTH SEAL IS OPENED DURING THE TRIBULATION!!!!!!! WHEN THE WORLDWIDE EARTHQUAKE TAKES PLACE AND CELESTIAL WOES OCCUR, AND THEN>>> THE WINDS STOP. LOOK OUT!!!!!!

 Quoting: Jesus Christ is the way


How many churches does Jesus have? Does he have 1 church or does he have 7 as mentioned in the book of Revelation? Jesus has 1 church. So we must conclude that the 7 churches in revelation are levels of the peoples who make up the church(body of christ) walk with God. Does Jesus not promise the ones at the level of the church of Philadelphia that they will be kept from the hour of temptation that is coming on the world? Yes he does and that hour is the 7 year tribulation. Why does he keep them from that 7 years because when the 42 months of tribulation that nobody is expecting came before the 7 year tribulation those people remained faithful(they had plenty of oil in their lamps and didn't have faith in the rapture instead of faith in Jesus),(the foolish virgins are the rest that didn't keep oil in their lamps and will endure the 7 more years) the rest fell away(there will be a great falling away) but does Jesus give up on the rest of his children? No he sends 2 witnesses to lead the people back to God and to bring the other house of Israel(the jew) back to God

Revelation 2:10:

New King James Version (NKJV)

10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

some will have 10 years tribulation but the faithful will only have 42 months......BE Faithful!

Last Edited by waterman on 11/21/2012 03:47 PM
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waterman (OP)

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11/21/2012 03:51 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
Read Matthew24:21 thru Matthew24:31
To sum it up for you the tribulation comes and God will shorten the days for the elect's sake then after the tribulation the sun and moon goes dark and stars fall and the powers of heavens are shaken then God sends his angels to gather the elect... sorry but if the elect will go thru the tribulation so will everyone else. End of debate.
 Quoting: BULLY! BULLY!


Did you read the thread? Everyone goes through the first 42 months but those that remain faithful during that period and didn't just have faith in a rapture will not endure the 7 year tribulation
 Quoting: waterman


Did you even read Matthew, or Luke 13?

The tribulation was shortened for the sake of the elect. It won't be 7 years.
 Quoting: OutdoorsMan


True :-)
 Quoting: BULLY! BULLY!


Read Matthew24:21 thru Matthew24:31
To sum it up for you the tribulation comes and God will shorten the days for the elect's sake then after the tribulation the sun and moon goes dark and stars fall and the powers of heavens are shaken then God sends his angels to gather the elect... sorry but if the elect will go thru the tribulation so will everyone else. End of debate.
 Quoting: BULLY! BULLY!


Did you read the thread? Everyone goes through the first 42 months but those that remain faithful during that period and didn't just have faith in a rapture will not endure the 7 year tribulation
 Quoting: waterman


Did you even read Matthew, or Luke 13?

The tribulation was shortened for the sake of the elect. It won't be 7 years.
 Quoting: OutdoorsMan


It won't be 7 lunar years it will be 7 prophetic years...lunar years are 365 days, prophetic year are 360 days..it will be shortened!
 Quoting: waterman


It won't be 7 lunar years it will be 7 prophetic years..lunar years are 365 days, prophetic are 360 days that is how it will be shortened
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1834146
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11/21/2012 04:03 PM
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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
i dont believe.
but if its true.
i guess ill just have to go through the trib.
and believe.
i have way more than enough to survive 7 years.rockon
waterman (OP)

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11/21/2012 04:07 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
i dont believe.
but if its true.
i guess ill just have to go through the trib.
and believe.
i have way more than enough to survive 7 years.rockon
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1834146


read the blessings and curses of a nation that turns from God Dueteronomy 28........you will go into slavery into other countries, your wives will be raped, your children slaughtered..... and be lucky to have a piece of bread and muddy water. It's not a fun read Deut. 28:


read the blessings and curses of those who follow God. America received everyone of those blessings, and be sure now that they have turned from God the will receive every curse:

Blessings on Obedience

28 “Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that the Lord your God will set you high above all nations of the earth.(united states) 2 And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, because you obey the voice of the Lord your God:

3 “Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the country.

4 “Blessed shall be the fruit of your body, the produce of your ground and the increase of your herds, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks.

5 “Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.

6 “Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out.

7 “The Lord will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before your face; they shall come out against you one way and flee before you seven ways.

8 “The Lord will command the blessing on you in your storehouses and in all to which you set your hand, and He will bless you in the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

9 “The Lord will establish you as a holy people to Himself, just as He has sworn to you, if you keep the commandments of the Lord your God and walk in His ways. 10 Then all peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the Lord, and they shall be afraid of you. 11 And the Lord will grant you plenty of goods, in the fruit of your body, in the increase of your livestock, and in the produce of your ground, in the land of which the Lord swore to your fathers to give you. 12 The Lord will open to you His good treasure, the heavens, to give the rain to your land in its season, and to bless all the work of your hand. You shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow. 13 And the Lord will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not be beneath, if you heed the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, and are careful to observe them. 14 So you shall not turn aside from any of the words which I command you this day, to the right or the left, to go after other gods to serve them.

Curses on Disobedience

15 “But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

16 “Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the country.

17 “Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl.

18 “Cursed shall be the fruit of your body and the produce of your land, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks.

19 “Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out.

20 “The Lord will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me. 21 The Lord will make the plague cling to you until He has consumed you from the land which you are going to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with severe burning fever, with the sword, with scorching, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish. 23 And your heavens which are over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you shall be iron. 24 The Lord will change the rain of your land to powder and dust; from the heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed.

25 “The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 Your carcasses shall be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and no one shall frighten them away. 27 The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, with tumors, with the scab, and with the itch, from which you cannot be healed. 28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart. 29 And you shall grope at noonday, as a blind man gropes in darkness; you shall not prosper in your ways; you shall be only oppressed and plundered continually, and no one shall save you.

30 “You shall betroth a wife, but another man shall lie with her; you shall build a house, but you shall not dwell in it; you shall plant a vineyard, but shall not gather its grapes. 31 Your ox shall be slaughtered before your eyes, but you shall not eat of it; your donkey shall be violently taken away from before you, and shall not be restored to you; your sheep shall be given to your enemies, and you shall have no one to rescue them. 32 Your sons and your daughters shall be given to another people, and your eyes shall look and fail with longing for them all day long; and there shall be no strength in your hand. 33 A nation whom you have not known shall eat the fruit of your land and the produce of your labor, and you shall be only oppressed and crushed continually. 34 So you shall be driven mad because of the sight which your eyes see. 35 The Lord will strike you in the knees and on the legs with severe boils which cannot be healed, and from the sole of your foot to the top of your head.

36 “The Lord will bring you and the king whom you set over you to a nation which neither you nor your fathers have known, and there you shall serve other gods—wood and stone. 37 And you shall become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword among all nations where the Lord will drive you.

38 “You shall carry much seed out to the field but gather little in, for the locust shall consume it. 39 You shall plant vineyards and tend them, but you shall neither drink of the wine nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them. 40 You shall have olive trees throughout all your territory, but you shall not anoint yourself with the oil; for your olives shall drop off. 41 You shall beget sons and daughters, but they shall not be yours; for they shall go into captivity. 42 Locusts shall consume all your trees and the produce of your land.

43 “The alien who is among you shall rise higher and higher above you, and you shall come down lower and lower. 44 He shall lend to you, but you shall not lend to him; he shall be the head, and you shall be the tail.

45 “Moreover all these curses shall come upon you and pursue and overtake you, until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you. 46 And they shall be upon you for a sign and a wonder, and on your descendants forever.

47 “Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joy and gladness of heart, for the abundance of everything, 48 therefore you shall serve your enemies, whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger, in thirst, in nakedness, and in need of everything; and He will put a yoke of iron on your neck until He has destroyed you. 49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flies, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a nation of fierce countenance, which does not respect the elderly nor show favor to the young. 51 And they shall eat the increase of your livestock and the produce of your land, until you are destroyed; they shall not leave you grain or new wine or oil, or the increase of your cattle or the offspring of your flocks, until they have destroyed you.

52 “They shall besiege you at all your gates until your high and fortified walls, in which you trust, come down throughout all your land; and they shall besiege you at all your gates throughout all your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 You shall eat the fruit of your own body, the flesh of your sons and your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you. 54 The sensitive and very refined man among you will be hostile toward his brother, toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the rest of his children whom he leaves behind, 55 so that he will not give any of them the flesh of his children whom he will eat, because he has nothing left in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates. 56 The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because of her delicateness and sensitivity, will refuse[a] to the husband of her bosom, and to her son and her daughter, 57 her placenta which comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of everything in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates.

58 “If you do not carefully observe all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, THE LORD YOUR GOD, 59 then the Lord will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues—great and prolonged plagues—and serious and prolonged sicknesses. 60 Moreover He will bring back on you all the diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you. 61 Also every sickness and every plague, which is not written in this Book of the Law, will the Lord bring upon you until you are destroyed. 62 You shall be left few in number, whereas you were as the stars of heaven in multitude, because you would not obey the voice of the Lord your God. 63 And it shall be, that just as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good and multiply you, so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you and bring you to nothing; and you shall be plucked from off the land which you go to possess.

64 “Then the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods, which neither you nor your fathers have known—wood and stone. 65 And among those nations you shall find no rest, nor shall the sole of your foot have a resting place; but there the Lord will give you a trembling heart, failing eyes, and anguish of soul. 66 Your life shall hang in doubt before you; you shall fear day and night, and have no assurance of life. 67 In the morning you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were evening!’ And at evening you shall say, ‘Oh, that it were morning!’ because of the fear which terrifies your heart, and because of the sight which your eyes see.

68 “And the Lord will take you back to Egypt in ships, by the way of which I said to you, ‘You shall never see it again.’ And there you shall be offered for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.”



Last Edited by waterman on 11/21/2012 04:11 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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11/21/2012 04:10 PM
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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
i dont believe.
but if its true.
i guess ill just have to go through the trib.
and believe.
i have way more than enough to survive 7 years.rockon
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1834146


read the blessings and curses of a nation that turns from God Dueteronomy 28........you will go into slavery into other countries, your wives will be raped, your children slaughtered..... and be lucky to have a piece of bread and muddy water. It's not a fun read Deut. 28
 Quoting: waterman


if they can find me in 150 sq miles of forrest.
in canada.
they deserve to get me.
waterman (OP)

User ID: 27915462
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11/21/2012 04:16 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
i dont believe.
but if its true.
i guess ill just have to go through the trib.
and believe.
i have way more than enough to survive 7 years.rockon
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1834146


read the blessings and curses of a nation that turns from God Dueteronomy 28........you will go into slavery into other countries, your wives will be raped, your children slaughtered..... and be lucky to have a piece of bread and muddy water. It's not a fun read Deut. 28
 Quoting: waterman


if they can find me in 150 sq miles of forrest.
in canada.
they deserve to get me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1834146


I believe verse 20 covers that Deut 28:20
20 “The Lord will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me. 21 The Lord will make the plague cling to you until He has consumed you from the land which you are going to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with severe burning fever, with the sword, with scorching, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish. 23 And your heavens which are over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you shall be iron. 24 The Lord will change the rain of your land to powder and dust; from the heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed.
Heed the warning or endure the mourning
Anonymous Coward
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11/21/2012 04:24 PM
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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
i thought if you believe in christ and repent during trib.
you still get saved after your head gets cut off.
waterman (OP)

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11/21/2012 04:24 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
i dont believe.
but if its true.
i guess ill just have to go through the trib.
and believe.
i have way more than enough to survive 7 years.rockon
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1834146


read the blessings and curses of a nation that turns from God Dueteronomy 28........you will go into slavery into other countries, your wives will be raped, your children slaughtered..... and be lucky to have a piece of bread and muddy water. It's not a fun read Deut. 28
 Quoting: waterman


if they can find me in 150 sq miles of forrest.
in canada.
they deserve to get me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1834146


The book of Obadiah is only 1 chapter but it shows what canada does on that day when americans are running there for help. Canada turns them over to the enemy. Read the chapter the names are changed but it will be the same story. Canada is easau and united states is jacob:
Obadiah 1: This is only part of the chapter
Obadiah 1

King James Version (KJV)

1 The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord God concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the Lord, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle.

2 Behold, I have made thee small among the heathen: thou art greatly despised.

3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?

4 Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle(American symbol), and though thou set thy nest among the stars(North of America), thence will I bring thee down, saith the Lord.

5 If thieves came to thee, if robbers by night, (how art thou cut off!) would they not have stolen till they had enough? if the grapegatherers came to thee, would they not leave some grapes?(they would if their brother hadn't protected them)

6 How are the things of Esau searched out! how are his hidden things sought up!

7 All the men of thy confederacy have brought thee even to the border: the men that were at peace with thee have deceived thee, and prevailed against thee; they that eat thy bread have laid a wound under thee: there is none understanding in him.

8 Shall I not in that day, saith the Lord, even destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?

9 And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter.

10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob(united states) shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.

11 In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem(captial washington d.c), even thou wast as one of them.

12 But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.

13 Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity;

14 Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress.

Last Edited by waterman on 11/21/2012 04:31 PM
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waterman (OP)

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11/21/2012 04:47 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
There are 4 groups of people on the rapture:

Is your faith in Jesus Christ or is it in the rapture, It will be tested!

1. Pre-tribulation rapture
2. Mid-tribulation rapture
3. Post-tribulation rapture
4. No tribulation rapture


How long is tribulation?
The end of the age of grace is the beginning of the 70th week of daniel, or 7 year tribulation.


I think we all know that in the bible a day can equal a year or a day can equal a thousand years. In this next verse we see in the book of revelation the devil will throw some of you into prison that you may be tested 10 days. We will all be tested but some for only 42 months. Did you see it said "some of you will be tested 10 days(years), not all only some. Wouldn't that be nice if it was only 10 days..It is 10 years, 42 months before the 7 year tribulation for a total of 10 and a half year tribulation not 11 years but 10 and a half years
But look in Revelation 2:10 it says we have 10 days(years) of tribulation
Remember the church will be here until the beginning of the 7 year tribulation because the end of "the age of grace" doesn't come until the beginning of the last 7 years. Then those who remained faithful through the 42 months prior to the 7 will be in the rapture

Revelation 2:10

10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days(years). Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

There are 7 churches in Revelation, but we know there is only one church of God so these 7 churches are different levels of where people are in relationship to Jesus Christ.

God sends a strong delusion that if it were possible it would fool even the elect:
Watch!
1. We know the man of sin comes at the beginning of the 7 year tribulation. He makes a covenant with many for 1 week(7 years)
2 There was a great falling away first, why because 42 months of tribualation prior to the 7 year tribulation comes and there is no rapture, people lose faith in God.
3. The great delusion is there is a 42 month period prior to the 7 year tribulation to see who is faithful and who is only faithful to a rapture card.
<< 2 Thessalonians 2 >>
King James Version
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Revelation 3:10 KJV

In the above verse, Pre-tribbers claim that Jesus will rapture the church before the tribulation. They claim the "hour of temptation" refers to the tribulation and "I will also keep them from" refers to Jesus' removal of the church from the earth. When translators have written "I will also keep the from the hour...," pre-tribbers claim "kept from" should have been translated "kept out of."

Before we examine this part of scripture, we must examine the first part of Jesus' message to the Philadelphian church.

"And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, no man openeth;

"I know thy works, behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know I loved thee.

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep the from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." (the hour of temptation is the 7 year tribulation, how did you keep the word of His patience, you endured the 42 months prior to the 7 year tribulation that the preachers aren't telling you about) Don't worry little flock God won't let a single tribulation come to you.WRONG!

Jesus said These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

People don't be deceived we are all gonna go through the 42 months of tribulation prior to the 7 and that 42 months is the destruction of the united states and being carried captive into other countries, be faithful to Jesus through that and you will see a rapture.
Revelation 2:10

Revelation 2:10

King James Version (KJV)

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
 Quoting: waterman


Last Edited by waterman on 11/26/2012 08:50 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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11/21/2012 05:02 PM
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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)
Read Matthew24:21 thru Matthew24:31
To sum it up for you the tribulation comes and God will shorten the days for the elect's sake then after the tribulation the sun and moon goes dark and stars fall and the powers of heavens are shaken then God sends his angels to gather the elect... sorry but if the elect will go thru the tribulation so will everyone else. End of debate.
 Quoting: BULLY! BULLY!


Did you read the thread? Everyone goes through the first 42 months but those that remain faithful during that period and didn't just have faith in a rapture will not endure the 7 year tribulation
 Quoting: waterman


Did you even read Matthew, or Luke 13?

The tribulation was shortened for the sake of the elect. It won't be 7 years.
 Quoting: OutdoorsMan


It is not shortened literally (meanin will be less days) but the perception of time durin the period by elects
waterman (OP)

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11/21/2012 05:11 PM

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Re: Rapture of the Church and the 7 year tribulation(actually 10 year tribulation)



Revelation 2:10:

New King James Version (NKJV)

10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw "some" of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

We know the last 7 years is not part of the age of grace, yet Revelation 2:10 tells us we will have tribulation 10 days(years) which is a 42 month period prior to the (7 year Or 42 month times 2)...so everybody sees the 7 years consisting of 42 months first half of 7 year trib and 42 months second half of trib, but what is going to make the ones just counting on the rapture fall away is they trusted in a rapture and not Jesus. Then 42 months later will be the end of the age of grace there will be a rapture and the beginning of the 7 year tribulation.

Am I making this clear: there is a 42 month period prior to the 7 year tribulation that is the destruction of the united states and people taken into captivity. Those who remain faithful to Jesus during those 42 months will not have to endure the 7 year tribulation because they remained faithful and it is the end of the age of grace, and the beginning of the last 7 years which is not the "age of grace" period.

Last Edited by waterman on 11/21/2012 05:28 PM
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