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ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956

 
Emperor Kenton
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01/31/2006 11:49 AM
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ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
This report summarizes in simple form the work that has been done and is being done in the new field of electrogravitics. It also outlines the various possible lines of research into the nature and constituent matter of gravity, and how it has changed from Newton to Einstein to the modern Hlavaty concept of gravity as an electromagnetic force that may be controlled like a light wave.
[link to www.padrak.com]
man_49

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01/31/2006 11:52 AM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
BS!

It's a rotating electric field is what it is!
Emperor Kenton (OP)

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01/31/2006 12:00 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
Aside, these Lifters based on the Biefeld-Brown effect seem to be getting more detailed:
[link to jnaudin.free.fr]
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2006 12:01 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
They obviously don`t work yet...
Emperor Kenton (OP)

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01/31/2006 12:06 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
work? Like this?
[link to jlnlabs.imars.com]
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2006 12:11 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
I`ve seen some of the small so called anti-gravity "models" on T.V(for want of another word as they DO work)but I imagined we were speaking of larger prototypes that we could see in action...there are none hence my response but I see you have a point... ufo56
arthur
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01/31/2006 01:04 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
11250


NASA has had a patent on the lifter technology for a long time. B2 bomber uses it.

I have built many lifters in my lab. .

We are currently working on a full size space plane that will use these Technologies.

Open your mind. Nothing you have been told by main stream science about advanced Technologies are true. Every thing is spun to keep you a slave to the system.

The flying triangle has been seen by thousands of people world wide for decades.

The history channel , PBS and Discovery , some times they will give you just a little hint as to what really going on .


Arthur
Innocentwolf15
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01/31/2006 01:08 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
Wow!..I wanna build my own lifter?..will ya show me how?
Askakido

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01/31/2006 01:14 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
Kent, the Electro Gravitics of TT Brown and his Aero Marine Vechile of his 1950 proposal to the US Navy is a very interesting application of the EG effect (so called).

What I have always found interesting about the TTB AMV craft is how much is appears as a Hannebu II type craft. Did the German scientists of the 1930's and 40's actually work with a different physics, a non-mainstream physics and really achieve EG with the Hannebu?

While I find EG to be very interesting, I think one should look at the NASA Brief of 1980 written up by one A.C. Holt on a hyperdeminsional craft.

Alot of this can be found on KeelyNet, as I am sure you are well aware of.

It has been suspected for along time that the supersonic cruise mode of flight for the B-1 (not the B-2) made some use of the Biefield-Brown effect to achieve super-cruise and save fuel.
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2006 01:18 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
google lifter

if you want to build one ufo56
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2006 01:20 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
3233

"Open your mind"..."We are currently working on a full size space plane that will use these Technologies"

I don`t dispute this,neither do I dispute your observation of gov.t etc...but like you say,this is old news and I hoped,naively,to see a large working model...I`m not sure what I feel about your assertion re "triangles"...I`m old enough to know fairies and the like DO NOT EXIST but this is not say that I don`t appreciate the possibilty,if not probability of such vehicles...but I can say this...Not a single person I know or know of,nor the people they know of (and carry this on down the line)have ever seen anything similar...like I say,this is not to negate the possibility but there`s too much bullshit for me to take this sort of stuff seriously without ANY evidence aside from hearsay,regardless of how many say it.....the burden of proof is high I`d agree but that`s the requirement....

alien11
Askakido

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01/31/2006 01:26 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
Interestingly enough, TT Brown in his 1950's purposal would have used not the dinky 15KV that most of these "new" lifters are using but somewhere between 1.5 Million to 3.5 Million volts.

For EG, think Super Capacitor technology being used not in little quarter sized capaciators, but rather a super cap that is 35 meters in diameter, with a break down voltage of 5.5 Million volts. We are basically dealing with "lightning" voltages with TT Brown's proposed AMV.

JNLabs has done some research on such things as have many others. J Naudin has been a public leader and then one that has gotten many people interested in the "lifters".

Long ago, (ten years back) I attempted to do some calculations using standard electromagnetic theory and the concept that the Earth's atmosphere works as a concentric capacitor, with the ionosphere being one "plate" and the surface of the ground being the other plate. A craft having a certain electrical charge could float between the two plates at an attitude dependant upon the local electrostatic field at is location.

One mistake that most UFO sites and writers make is that of using electromaganetic effects like "floating the craft on the Earth's magnetic field". It has been felt by some for a long time that such a public offering of the "magnetics" was in itself disinformation to direct people away from the electro-static, or electro-dynamics. Reason being that generating strong enough magnetic fields requires very heavy coils and generators that also take up alot of power, while working with the corresponding electrostatic field geneators is a drastically more lightweight approach.

Think floating of the Earth's electrostatic field rather than the Earth's magnetic field. This is why the lifters work. Making an electro magnet with enough magnetic force to repell against the Earths magnetic field is a hugh and heavy problem.

But in dealing with the LIFTERS think MegaVolts and not KiloVolts.

Thought some might find this interesting... for what ever it is worth.
Emperor Kenton (OP)

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01/31/2006 01:34 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
There is a guy here in Seattle building lifters and claiming he was very near an onboard power supply.

This was a couple years ago I'll try to find him.
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2006 01:35 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
book
Emperor Kenton (OP)

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01/31/2006 01:39 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
But in dealing with the LIFTERS think MegaVolts and not KiloVolts.
-----------------------

Wasn't Tesla tech all about kicking up voltage?

Not sure what I'm asking here, visualising some kind of pulse.
Askakido

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01/31/2006 01:42 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
True enough that next to no UFO sightings describe anything visually related to the JNLabs Lifters.

However, just how many sightings describe a craft very similar to the Hannebur II craft (which some alledged first flew just outside of Prague on Feb.14, 1945). The Adamski "contactee" hoax craft used this form and shape.

The TTB AMV would look very much like the Hannebu II in form and shape. Years ago I did the calculations using standard text book theory physics of the ability of a super voltage charged object being able to be hold itself at a certain range of altitudes at given electric charges. What I discovered is that by repelling off the grounds electrostatic field the craft would indeed float and would have many of the flight characterists of many many disc shaped UFO reports... like skipping around like a stone skipped across the water.

But at the heart of the matter is the nature of the dielectric of the capacitor used. I even went so far as to work out the necessary dielect constant needed for the insulator as well as the volts per mil required. I could find no insulating material known to me, nor any publically known dielectic material that has these physical properties.

My studies in this area eventually wasted away on the vine due to total lack of funding to continue any further studies searching for such a material that would have such a dielectric.

Somewhere among my terabyte of hdd storage or hundreds of CDROMS is the MS Works spreadsheet and the write ups of the studies I did. I hope someday to be able to publish this work for whatever it is worth, I make no claims, but I would like to be able to present this to a few people in general so whoever wants to can take it further.
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2006 01:44 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
". Years ago I did the calculations using standard text book theory physics of the ability of a super voltage charged object being able to be hold itself at a certain range of altitudes at given electric charges."


May we have access to you work..? spock
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2006 01:45 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
11250

[link to www.disclosureproject.org]

have you ever seen the disclosure project?

The Disclosure Project is a nonprofit research project working to fully disclose the facts about UFOs, extraterrestrial intelligence, and classified advanced energy and propulsion systems. We have over 400 government, military, and intelligence community witnesses testifying to their direct, personal, first hand experience with UFOs, ETs, ET technology, and the cover-up that keeps this information secret.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
3233

Thanks for the link...I don`t have time to look at it right now but I`ll go there later...I guess that I`ve become not just older but colcer too with the passing of years...there`s just so many lies etc and people with various agenda`s that I find it hard to believe any of it,unless I see something with my own eyes...nevertheless,thanks... anon
scimitar

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01/31/2006 01:51 PM

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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
The key is to maintain a very high intensity magnetic field to reenforce the dielectric. Spin the charged disc to create the field.... this will hold the charges separate reducing the strain on the dielectric. The Searl device utilized this effect.

Damn I wish I could get back to the lab!

One Truth.... many realities
One Truth.... many realities
Askakido

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01/31/2006 01:53 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
Yes, Kent, Tesla was talking about kicking up the voltages. But understand that Tesla found it wasn't not necessary to include the power generation onboard, he was going to broadcast the power to the craft.

The whole trick here (besides control issues) is to find a dielectric material that is light weight enough that can withstand hundreds of thousands of volts per mil, and be of such high quality control manufacturing that dielectric purity is assured.

I keep trying to visualize to the point of calculating just how the form of the alledged Hannebu (TTB-AMV) craft would use three separate capacitor plates, and the coatings on the 35 meter diameter plates being of such high dielectric constant that even the capacitance added by the air gaps would add very little to the over all charge capacity.

JNLabs (Jean Lousie Naudin's Labs) had or has a work up on the basic shape of the Hannebu II. However JNLabs has not publically shown much further work on the electro dynamic properties of the various configurations of capacitors and the possiblity of using a gradient of dielectric constant across the cap to tailor the field more effectively.

The link to Padrak is a good one, as well as the one to JNLabs, and of course the classic is TTB's own memorial site. Need to look to see if it is still online.
Askakido

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01/31/2006 02:12 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
Remember, the electromagnetic field is corresponding to the electrostatic field. You don't have one without automatically have the other.
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2006 02:13 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
Yes, Kent, Tesla was talking about kicking up the voltages.

Trust me that is it !!!!!!!!!! ufo56
Askakido

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01/31/2006 02:34 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
AC11250:

I find it interesting that alot of what had been published on the internet even 11 years ago is now defunct, including my own stuff.

Do your own work. Why look for a guru when you can only understand the relevant universal physical properties by doing your own work and experiments. That said, I am looking for my own write ups and notes. When I get them together I will share them and get my flame suit on.

But the starting point for me was to start with standard electrical and electronic theory, the classic stuff they do teach in Electronic Tech schools and Electronics Engineering courses in universities and colleges.

I got to wondering if the Biefield Brown effect could not in part or exclusively be described by standard theory without resorting to electro-gravitic theory per TT Brown.

It is a plasma electric field universe. The Earth is floating in a univeral electric field. If such systems work in local Earth field, the same principles should work in interplanetary if not interstellar space. The more vacuum the stronger the effect, as air is a fairly leaky insulator.

Understand that this is not a formal writeup.

Step one: consider the Ionosphere to be one plate of a two plate capacitor.

Step two: consider the ground to be the other plate.

Step three: consider that the atmosphere has an electric charge which reflects the electro dynamic potential between the ionosphere (clear out to the Sun if you like) and the ground. And that this atmosphere holds a variable charge.

Now it is just a question of having your craft have a more negative or more positive charge than its corresponding position between the two plates would have without the craft being there.

It helps to digest Vaccum Tube and electron gun theories. The craft operates more or less as a "grid" in a triode that can vary its positon between the anode and the cathode. In Vaccum Tubes the grid plate is fixed in location.

Needless to say ion propulsion like that used in DeepSpace One, can also be looked at as a vaccum tube setup... newest development in ion drive is now moving to looking at the use of grids to help accellarate the ions away from the craft. Like the electron gun in your CRT picture tube.

The craft become the "electron" in a sense.

So, from this foundation it is merely a question of doing the math in a what if type of way. Vary the charge gradient, vary the spacing between the plates, vary the plate area, vary the dielectric constant of the insulator.

(This was a Works spread sheet, and a very preliminary one at that.)

Now I will have to dig this stuff back up that went back on the back burner many years ago.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
Askakido

68458

"Do your own work. Why look for a guru when you can only understand the relevant universal physical properties by doing your own work and experiments."

No I`m not looking for a Guru,just wanted to see whether you were genuine or not (I`m afraid you`ll have to forgive my suspicion/arrogance though)as there are,as you would be aware I`m sure,too many bullshit merchants around...and I doubt I`m up to the work required anyhow...funny thing is,you could show me a bunch of mathematical crock and I wouldn`t know much of a difference... stars
Askakido

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01/31/2006 03:16 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
On the basis of "true science" authenticity can only be determined by doing one's own experiments or accurately duplicating some one else's experiments and seeing if you get the same results.

True, there are alot of "cons" out there, but there are also alot of misunderstood people as well.

JNLabs "Lifters" do work. Are they truely electro-gravity? That is the question. How can the effect they use be engineered to become practial applications and be cost effective as well is also the question.

The same is true of the TOMI devices of Stewart Harris. Can the effect be engineered to produce a circular nearly constinuously running device?

There are far more debunkers, skeptics, and true believers in this lay scienctific area than there are people attempting to do any honest research work. And it does take some money and much time. And often it takes some fabrication skills along with the proper tools and test equipment.

There are alot of "armchair" scientists, just as there are alot of armchair politiains and generals.

With the lifters of JNLabs the question for the average person who might want to build their own, is do they really want to play with thousands of volts of electricity? Do they know how to respect it and handle it safely? What about if one were thinking about building TTBrown's AMV, would you want to personally be playing with 3.5 Million volts?

There are practical reasons alot of this stuff remains "theoretical" and armchair, saftly and cost are two of them.
AC2
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01/31/2006 04:40 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
First pardon my ignorance on the issue:

My curiousity has always been piqued by the small lifter devices, which have now been around for years. My question though is just how much electical current (in watts used) would be required to "lift" (or "float" if you desire to phrase it that way) a device capable of carrying 1000# of payload for example?

Just as aircraft development was always dependent first upon the development of a proper power plant (most outside of the aviation field think it is just the opposite, but in reality aircraft development always FOLLOWED engine development) I would think that lifter (floater) devices would also be dependent upon developing a suitable power source.

One can see where a B-1 or B-2 bomber with it's energy harnessable massive jet engines could obtain at least a reasonable amount of electrical power so as to power a "lift assist" unit onboard, but a "pure" lifting (floating) device that depended EXCLUSIVELY upon the lift/float function it would seem to me would have both a much higher energy requirement ... and not able to utilize traditional energy sources such as existing jet engine technology.

Remember, before the Wright Brothers could fly they not only had to build the structure of their plane ... they also had to build the lightest weight high power gasoline engine ever built up to that point in time (a remarkable engineering achievement in it's own right)

Any thoughts would be welcome.

AC2
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2006 04:58 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
ac2

You are correct. The b1 and b2 only get lighter, not completely weightless. rummer has it 80% lighter . What that does is make it capable of mach 7 and a world wide range.

Not bad for a plane built in 92 .

Just think what we dont know about yet
Innocentwolf15
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01/31/2006 05:04 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
Why not ignite the electrostatic charge created by air moving over an airfoil?..you know like helicopters charge the air around them via the heli=blades.thats all the blades are,is rotating wings.
Innocentwolf15
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01/31/2006 05:07 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
What part do you play at disclosure 3233...? just a member?
Anonymous Coward
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01/31/2006 05:11 PM
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Re: ELECTROGRAVITICS SYSTEMS out of Wright Patterson in 1956
I built a small antigravity box from info I got from the king of coral castle.

gravity is a illusion

magnets flying out of the center of the earth are attracted to the first thing they touch.