There is no such thing as ‘Palestine’ nor ‘Palestinian people’

Carshy, you are entirely correct, there was NO palestinian state before the creation of Israel. Why? Because the people didn't function that way. Anyone who knows their history isn't arguing that point with you.

As you learn from what I quoted above, the reason for the "creation" of a Palestinian state, was to compete with the creation of a Zionist state, called Israel.

If you study history, although the Jews and Arabs never got along in that area, they certainly got along a LOT better before the creation of the State of Israel. Why? Because the state of Israel wasn't created by the regular, everyday Jewish man living in that area. It was created by Zionists, who back then actually openly admitted they wanted to get rid of all the Arabs in that area, and create a "Jewish" (Zionist) state.



No one is arguing about whether or not the Palestinian state existed before or after the State of Israel. What we are arguing about, and why they are FIGHTING, is because they were living there LONG before the creation of the State of Israel (both regular Jews, although a minority, and Muslim Arabs).


The muslim arabs were scattered, tribal, and most of them farmed, according to history. Some 30-45 years BEFORE the creation of Israel, the Zionists survayed the land, because they wanted it, and it was admitted that the land was already OCCUPIED by a small portion of Jews (not a problem for them!), and a large portion of Muslim Arabs (a BIG problem for them).



The whole fight has been against two groups of people the Zionists, and the Arabs who already occupied the land. MANY of the jews who occupied the land before the creation of the state of Israel, didn't initiately support the state of Israel. They were fine how things were.

The reason many finally supported it, is because what side where they to take? Take the side of a muslim, arab population that doesnt care for them that much, or take the side of the Zionists, who claim to be Jews, and will essentially grant the jews already there an opportunity to reach the highest levels of positions of any occupation, government or otherwise.


It is no secret that many of the Zionists involved in the creation of the state of Israel, completely wanted all the Arabs out.

Why should they be FORCED to move to syria, lebonan, or egypt, as the zionists are trying to make them?






I don't have a side, but we should struggle internally to learn as much as we possibly can about a conflict that could someday (very soon even) become worldwide.

love for those who torture their women?

Love for those who preach hatred pure?

Love for those who crucify others?

Love for lying people who cheer when anyone not them dies?
(see 9-11 footage of murder-happy mussies)

I guess you love evil.

A liar like your father

For the record: I'm sure many of you are aware of the conflict between Tibet and China. The situation is almost the same, the only difference is the Dalai Lama (former head of state, essentially), choose to take a non-violent stance.

Even so, many Tibetans initially fought the Chinese in the 1940s, trying to fight the chinese occupation. It didn't work. Just like the ZIonists want the Palestinians to move to another area, so did the Tibetans who escaped torture and death move to India.



For the record: Tibet was never officially a Country or State either. In fact, China has ALWAYS claimed Tibet as a territory within China. However, the people were sovereign for the most part, and able to live as they wanted, to some degree.



Now, I would argue that Tibet WAS a state. The people of Tibet certainlly recognized it as so. However, the rest of the world never did, not officially.


History is a very interesting thing. HIS-story. History is often the story of the successors of War and Conquest. We must understand that.

This thing in this map you showing here mate never existed in history in the first place, dunno where you get the original borders thingy. It was promised in the bible, but never existed in actual history, big difference imo.

There is this stuff though.

[link to www.jrbooksonline.com]

[link to www.imninalu.net]

Myths, Hypotheses and Facts
Concerning the Origin of Peoples


The True Identity of the So-called Palestinians

Would you want to invite people into your country who lie, cheat, steal, commit usury, start pornography businesses, run sex slave operations, and will never assimilate or respect your nation's culture and heritage?

Who cares?
Try to stay on-subject.

73 votes with a 2 star average.

No sense in arguing with 12 yr olds.

According to the United Nations weird standards, any person that spent TWO YEARS (!!!) in "Palestine" before 1948, with or without proof, is a "Palestinian", as well as all the descendants of that person. Indeed, the PLO leaders eagerly demand the "right" of all Palestinians to come back to the land that they occupied before June 1967 c.e., but utterly reject to return back to the land where they lived only 50 years before, namely, in 1917 c.e. Why? Because if they agree to do so, they have to settle back in Iraq, Syria, Arabia, Libya, Egypt... and only a handful Arabs would remain in Israel (by Israel is intended the whole Land between the Yarden River and the Mediterranean Sea, plus the Golan region). It is thoroughly documented that the first inhabitants of Eretz Yisrael after some centuries were the Jewish pioneers, and not the Arabs so-called Palestinians. Some eyewitnesses have written their memories about the Land before the Jewish immigration:

"There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent (valley of Jezreel, Galilea); not for thirty miles in either direction... One may ride ten miles hereabouts and not see ten human beings. For the sort of solitude to make one dreary, come to Galilee... Nazareth is forlorn... Jericho lies a mouldering ruin... Bethlehem and Bethany, in their poverty and humiliation... untenanted by any living creature... A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent, mournful expanse... a desolation... We never saw a human being on the whole route... Hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil had almost deserted the country... Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes... desolate and unlovely...".

- Mark Twain, "The Innocents Abroad", 1867 -

Where had the Palestinians been hidden that Mark Twain did not see them? Where was that "ancient" people in the mid XIX century c.e.? Of course, modern biased Arab politicians try to discredit Mark Twain and insult and blame him of racism. Yet, it seems that there were other people that did not achieve in recognizing a single Palestinian in those times and earlier:

"In 1590 a 'simple English visitor' to Jerusalem wrote: 'Nothing there is to bescene but a little of the old walls, which is yet remayning and all the rest is grasse, mosse and weedes much like to a piece of rank or moist grounde'.".

- Gunner Edward Webbe, Palestine Exploration Fund,
Quarterly Statement, p. 86; de Haas, History, p. 338 -


"The land in Palestine is lacking in people to till its fertile soil".

- British archaeologist Thomas Shaw, mid-1700s -


"Palestine is a ruined and desolate land".

- Count Constantine François Volney, XVIII century French author and historian

Your exactly right my friend. This "Conquer" mentality is the very reason that the Muslims wanted to build the mosque at the former World Trade Center site.

However, what I find amusing is the fact they did not get to build it exactly where the World Trade Center used to be and the new Freedom Tower will stand stories and stories above this demonic mosque.
Eat S**T bastards.

1. Israel became a state in 1312 B.C.E., two millennia before Islam.

2.Arab refugees from Israel began calling themselves “Palestinians” in 1967, two decades after (modern) Israeli statehood in 1948.

3.After conquering the land in 1272 B.C.E., Jews ruled it for a thousand years and maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years.

4. The only Arab rule following conquest in 633 B.C.E. lasted just 22 years.

5.For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem was the Jewish capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even under Jordanian rule,(East) Jerusalem was not made the capital, and no Arab leader came to visit it.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the bible, but not once is it mentioned in the Qur’an.

7. King David founded Jerusalem; Mohammed never set foot in it.

8.Jews pray facing Jerusalem; Muslims face Mecca. If they are between the two cities, Muslims pray facing Mecca, with their backs to Jerusalem.

9.In 1948, Arab leaders urged their people to leave, promising to cleanse the land of Jewish presence. 68% of them fled without ever setting eyes on an Israeli soldier.

10. Virtually the entire Jewish population of Muslim countries had to flee as the result of violence and pogroms.

11. Some 630,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948, while close to a million Jews were forced to leave the Muslim countries.

12.In spite of the vast territories at their disposal, Arab refugees were deliberately prevented from assimilating into their host countries. Of 100 million refugees following World War 2, they are the only group tohave never integrated with their co-religionists. Most of the Jewish refugees from Europe and Arab lands were settled in Israel,a country no larger than New Jersey, USA.

13. There are 22 Muslim countries, not counting Palestine. There is only one Jewish state.

14. Fatah and Hamas constitutions still call for the destruction of Israel.
Israel ceded most of the west bank and all of Gaza to the Palestinian authority, and even provided it with arms.

15.During the Jordanian occupation, Jewish holy sites were vandalized and were off limits to Jews. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian holy sites are accessible to all faiths.

16. Out of 175 United Nations Security Council resolutions up to1990, 97 were against Israel; out of 690 general assembly resolutions,429 were against Israel.

17. The U.N. was silent when the Jordanians destroyed 58 synagogues in the old city of Jerusalem. It remained silent while Jordan systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and it remained silent when Jordan enforced apartheid laws preventing Jews from accessing the temple mount and western wall.

18. Arabs started all five wars against Israel, and lost every one of them.

That's because there are two little bitches who know how to change your IP addresses and 1 star a thread.

It just means you're a vandal, not that the thread isn't valuable.

Fact.

The real question is why are the zionists so obsessed with controlling this area?
wouldn't it have make much more sense that they seetled in some random state in america, whom came to their rescure in WW2, or simply go back to russia where they came from before seetlng in germany and all over europe. Why choice the middle east?

What good did they actually think would come out of that, there gotta be some agenda behind that decision, other than their own thousand year old self written propheties. All the misery that have come from this, to both their own and the muslims, let alone the trail this conflict have left all over the world. it doesn't make any sense.

And who are the people behind the zionist movement we always hear about on sites like this, how did they became so powerful that they pretty much control the whole western world, and how is it that noone actually know anything about them. Ask any random person at work if they know about the zionists and they will stare back with a blank look. I dunno what to think of it all.

That's funny because if I look at a map of the world pre world war 2 there is a big country called palestine, what's also funny is nowhere on the map is a place called israel.

According to you mapmakers 70 years ago were wrong

What you are posting is pure propoganda.

Because they own it.

You can't read.

What´s the purpose of this debate? clarify who has the right to exterminate the other?

the truth is that Palestine exists .. even if our intellect .. since you guys are so educated, I quote Anselm of Canterbury (a great great philosopher)

".. But surely, When this same Fool hears what I am speaking about, Namely," something-than-which-nothing-greater-can-be-thought , "he Understands what he hears, and he Understands what is in his mind, even if he does not understand That it actually exists. for it is one thing for an object to exist in the mind, and another thing to understand That an object actually exists. Thus, When the painter plans beforehand what he is going to run, he has [the picture] in his mind, but he does not yet think That it actually exists because he has not yet executed it. However, When he has actually painted it, then he has it in his ambos mind and Understands That It exists because he has now made it. Even the Fool, then, is forced to agree That something-than-which-nothing-greatercan-be-thought exists in the mind, since he Understands When he hears this it, is Understood and whatever is in the mind. and surely that-than-which-a-greater-cannotbe-thought can not exist in the mind alone. Solely For if it exists in the mind even, it can be thought to exist in reality also, Which Is greater. If then that-than-which-cannot-be-agreater-thought exists in the mind alone, this same that-than-which-a-greater-cannot-be-thought is that-than-which-a-greater-can-be-thought. But this is obviously impossible. Therefore there is absolutely in doubt That something-than-which-a-greater-cannot-be-thought ambos exists in the mind and in reality."

So..?

I'm Blackfoot/French Canadian, born in Wa. Timeline; Washington= no name=1543 claimed by Spain=1579 claimed by England=1775 claimed by Spain again=1818 US and Britain agree to joint occupy=1823 Monroe Doctrine=1843 Great Migration=1871 - Indian Appropriations Act states that Indians are no longer considered sovereign nations but wards of the federal government.=1854 Walla Walla county formed.
1889 - Washington becomes the 42nd state.

So with this am I called a what? American, just because my ancestors didn't have a name for a country or they did and someone over wrote it? I'm an American Washatonian Oregonian? Hell I can even add the counties to this.

I live in Oregon now so that's why I threw that part in.. Stupid to go by history books and the bible. We know history books don't always tell the truth and the bible I won't go there. That in itself is supposedly re-re-re-re-written so many times through peoples interpretation.

So arguing over something unless you want to start with DNA and than be able to figure out from there exactly who is who...This argument can go any way. Palestinian can be a name such as Washatonian and Oregonian or it could actually be a tribe like the Blackfoot. Either way you all are loosing it..Just my 2cents..

So let's not get into the technicalities and just stay on the main point. According to OP, there were no Arabs in the land known as Palestine before the British announced they were going to give it away to the Jews, who were the main inhabitants of that area, and that the Arabs only came to the area to ruin the Jewish state.

One wonders where to begin in deconstructing this ridiculous assertion. Any reader of history would know what the OP is saying is blatantly false, but to those who are not so aware of the region's history, let's take a look at a few historical points:

1) Before the British took Palestine, the area was ruled by the Turks as part of the Ottoman empire. After the Ottomans defeat in World war 1, the areas they controlled were divided among the British and French according as set by the infamous Sykes–Picot agreement, and hence the British got Palestine.

During Ottoman times, Palestine was happily inhabited by many people of different ethnicity (religion, not race, is what officially distinguished people at that time). The majority living in Palestine were Muslims and Christians who spoke Arabic (and hence were Arab, since "Arab" as a term covers a cultural group defined by their language). It is absurd to suggest that a large patch of fertile land like Palestine, especially which holds extremely religious significance to Muslims and Christians, would be left alone solely to the Jews.

2) If OP's assertions were true, there would be no 1948 Arabs (Palestinians who stayed on the land despite Israeli attempts to kick them out). The majority of Palestinians fled their lands following Israelis massacres (such as Deir Yassin) and propaganda campaigns. If the Arabs came to Palestine specifically to ruin the Jewish state, then it would have made no sense for them to flee.


If you still insist on believing OP's lie that there were no Arabs in Palestine, then please explain this video:

Same could be said about the term Jewish, Jews op. There were no Jewish people 2000 yrs ago. It was 2 houses. Judah and Israel. So how is Israel a Jewish state? And we have no idea if the right lineage of people occupy Israel as of today. There's no proof of these so called Jews which tribes they descend from. Not saying you're wrong on the Palestinian people but just recognize the Jews have the same dilemma too.

Palestinians and jews have IDENTICAL GENETICS ...

Jews killing & murdering their own kind ....

on mere religion believes ..

You have a warped perception of what has been going on in the Palestinian region since 48. Paestinian "ARABS" have been forced out of their homes when many of them lived in these places for generations.

If you were forcibly removed from your land by an occupying force, I'd bet my left testicle you wouldn't "want them coming home" either.

Keep turning a blind eye, because of your religious beliefs. You are an ignorant fool, if you can't see that millions of Arabs have been displaced since the creation of the state of Israel.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

No, it's a matter of private property and ownership law.