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Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.

 
MHz

User ID: 25505891
Canada
11/25/2012 07:13 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
I was in walmart today and every person was like a pushy, impatient mememe douchebag. You can bet your ass I will be taking my chances in the woods compared with fending off the hoards of zombies that WILL descend on your home and your family's resources when bad planning and hunger kick in.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3491129

Are you panning in hanging out in the mall? I would be looking for an old house where I could make the upstairs make it look abandoned and not worth trying to live in and fix the basement up for the 'hide-out', hide for as long as you can and by then the streets might be without people but then what?

Last Edited by MHz on 11/25/2012 07:13 PM
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:16 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Farming...? Most people have hobby farms and also have to work a real job everyday also to pay for the lifestyle.

Dairy farms are over when and if the fuel quits running and the power goes off. They will be giving the cows to the locals or turning them out. Some will get mastitus as they need to get milked everyday and need to be breed to keep producing milk. Dairy farms are over in a SHTF event.

People whom have cattle have to put up hay and feed them all winter and have lots of pasture.

I have been on my hundred acres for 12 years in a high mountain valley. There are about 30 other area residences. There are a few that have been here way longer than me.

We always watch when a place goes up for sale. We have seen many properties change hands over the years and its always the same thing. People move out to the country and then soon REALIZE WHAT IT ACTUALLY TAKES JUST IN MAINTENCE ALONE NEVER MIND IF YOU HAVE A FEW ANIMALS. Most of the City types last maybe 2 winters. Some even less. Too much work and money going out all the time. Your a slave to your lifestyle and then you have to work on top of it unless you arrived in the beginning with alot of money saved up. Its hard work and you better have deep pockets. OP"S right about all of it. For the ones that have never been there and done it you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 26820407
United States
11/25/2012 07:16 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Keeping chickens is easy and a person doesn't have to run a dairy farm to keep a milk cow.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28210306


the problem with this kind of thinking is that yes, if you were to only have some chickens, that would be easy.

add to that all the other really "easy" things to do like chop haul wood, "throw seeds in the ground" (and watch the animals eat them), haul water, deal with your garbage, do the dishes, keep things sanitary, get food, grow wheat, hull wheat, grind wheat (if your wheat survives).

sure all these things are "easy" when taken on their own divorced from the reality that you will need to do at least 50 of things "easy" things per day.

day after day after day. year after year. ya, sure, chickens are easy.

i only have 5 acres and i've been working at it 2 years.
and i thought having a garden would be "easy"

all those seed packets say "easy to grow".

everything sounds so easy.

seriously people, you better start learning how to do this stuff like yesterday.

i have so much ahead of me to prepare and learn.
it's mindblowing really.

but i find it to be fun to do as i like a difficult task that takes a lot of energy.

but this is not for the weak.
 Quoting: pink cat


All sounded so easy, then you tried it. Good luck, keep the learning curve active. If you made it two years you will make it.
 Quoting: Desert Fox


Therein lies the rub. It does sound easy from an armchair within walking distance from a grocery store/coffee shop/cineplex etc. The devil is in the details. Mucking pigs with the flu isn't anything but trying, but it has to be done; unless you want sick pigs as well. Keeping ice off the water pans is almost rocket science, but if you don't mind dehydrated livestock that keel over it's no big deal. Any one single part of substance living is approachable. It is the whole catastrophe of having to take care of yourself that proves to be a bit more than most realize...
Not a Sheeple

User ID: 728339
United States
11/25/2012 07:17 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
OP is living in a fantasy world that doesn't exist. The country has gone hitech as the city. Dairy farms have robitics to milk cows and operate tractors. I have no idea what the OP is nattering on about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25244523


Belive everything you see on TV. Most of the real farmers are scratching it out.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10393879




Bullshit! I know of a family that farms just over a 1000 acres and they took 996k worth of corn silage to market last month.......and they have a small op.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28469405


Yeah, I know farmers too. They have seeds costs, herbicides, tractors, diesel, irrigation, etc. Some do well, some don't. Wonder how much of the 996k was profit?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1273076


That's the problem with knowitalls/peopleonwelfare...
It's ALL profit in their eyes.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14408911
United States
11/25/2012 07:17 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
and your a hick
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28441192


Put your money where your mouth is. Come out here and try to survive. You'll be crying for your conditioned cocoon in days.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


Yep, I figured that out. Did a year in the country and then returned to the city. Now the country is just a weekend place I go to once a month to check up on and keep the brush and weeds cut back. The easy city life is for me.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25027150
United States
11/25/2012 07:17 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
and your a hick
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28441192


Put your money where your mouth is. Come out here and try to survive. You'll be crying for your conditioned cocoon in days.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


flatlander
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28441192


Cheesehead :-)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28470047
United States
11/25/2012 07:18 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Keeping chickens is easy and a person doesn't have to run a dairy farm to keep a milk cow.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28210306


the problem with this kind of thinking is that yes, if you were to only have some chickens, that would be easy.

add to that all the other really "easy" things to do like chop haul wood, "throw seeds in the ground" (and watch the animals eat them), haul water, deal with your garbage, do the dishes, keep things sanitary, get food, grow wheat, hull wheat, grind wheat (if your wheat survives).

sure all these things are "easy" when taken on their own divorced from the reality that you will need to do at least 50 of things "easy" things per day.

day after day after day. year after year. ya, sure, chickens are easy.

i only have 5 acres and i've been working at it 2 years.
and i thought having a garden would be "easy"

all those seed packets say "easy to grow".

everything sounds so easy.

seriously people, you better start learning how to do this stuff like yesterday.

i have so much ahead of me to prepare and learn.
it's mindblowing really.

but i find it to be fun to do as i like a difficult task that takes a lot of energy.

but this is not for the weak.
 Quoting: pink cat


All sounded so easy, then you tried it. Good luck, keep the learning curve active. If you made it two years you will make it.
 Quoting: Desert Fox


go to your local library and check out farming books or pick them up for cheap at bookstores. read them, try the techniques...you will learn what works and what doesnt.

its not easy planting, growing, canning, etc. but its not that hard once you learn...get to know your neighbors and what they can add or take away..

use the money you have to stock up on supplies...have fun at it and learn before the real need comes into existence. its not that hard..in fact it gets quite easy when you learn and put it into practice...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14494585
United States
11/25/2012 07:18 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


I love the never-ending "I'm better than you" threads on here. OP, my little sister could kickyerass.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27382151
United States
11/25/2012 07:19 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
and your a hick
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28441192


Maybe, but I'd bet he knows the difference between "your" and you're.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25027150
United States
11/25/2012 07:20 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
pffft = HWY 10 = approx near Marshfield, WI, move / live next to an Amish Farm - they are like wallmart of supplies around here. yea, you can work for it too if you don't have cash.
brent pops

User ID: 17763690
United States
11/25/2012 07:20 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
I live out in the country. Any healthy adult could/should bug out, if need be, to the country. I know of whole families of idiots that can make it out here, anyone halfway intelligent would thrive out here. Just bring a lot of booze with you to barter with.

If you don't own land then make a deal with someone (elderly couple) to "sharecrop" on their land, giving the land owner say 20% of what the yield is. I'd take that all day long.

Take your chances in a city? Hell no, thats a death sentence if SHTF.
"Putting your hand into a river, you simultaneously touch the last of what is passing and the first of what is coming."
Leonardo Da Vinci
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25788477
United States
11/25/2012 07:21 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Bull! Lived in both city and country.
samanthasunflower

User ID: 14930415
United States
11/25/2012 07:24 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Thanks OP, most people don't have a clue.

I also have to point out that there are already people living in the country. When TSHTF, there won't be millions of empty houses for you to move into to. That flat grassy land that you figured you'd camp out on , is my pasture and I will guard it with hot lead.

Even the hippies that I know that sell organic eggs for high prices, own a gun. Being good liberals, they hate guns, but they still have one to protect their chickens from predators. (Sometimes predators have two legs.)
Desert FoxModerator
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User ID: 8786935
United States
11/25/2012 07:26 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Keeping chickens is easy and a person doesn't have to run a dairy farm to keep a milk cow.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28210306


the problem with this kind of thinking is that yes, if you were to only have some chickens, that would be easy.

add to that all the other really "easy" things to do like chop haul wood, "throw seeds in the ground" (and watch the animals eat them), haul water, deal with your garbage, do the dishes, keep things sanitary, get food, grow wheat, hull wheat, grind wheat (if your wheat survives).

sure all these things are "easy" when taken on their own divorced from the reality that you will need to do at least 50 of things "easy" things per day.

day after day after day. year after year. ya, sure, chickens are easy.

i only have 5 acres and i've been working at it 2 years.
and i thought having a garden would be "easy"

all those seed packets say "easy to grow".

everything sounds so easy.

seriously people, you better start learning how to do this stuff like yesterday.

i have so much ahead of me to prepare and learn.
it's mindblowing really.

but i find it to be fun to do as i like a difficult task that takes a lot of energy.

but this is not for the weak.
 Quoting: pink cat


All sounded so easy, then you tried it. Good luck, keep the learning curve active. If you made it two years you will make it.
 Quoting: Desert Fox


Therein lies the rub. It does sound easy from an armchair within walking distance from a grocery store/coffee shop/cineplex etc. The devil is in the details. Mucking pigs with the flu isn't anything but trying, but it has to be done; unless you want sick pigs as well. Keeping ice off the water pans is almost rocket science, but if you don't mind dehydrated livestock that keel over it's no big deal. Any one single part of substance living is approachable. It is the whole catastrophe of having to take care of yourself that proves to be a bit more than most realize...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407

I was raised on a farm, know the drill, and even I would struggle greatly to survive if I had to do it again. I have the skills to do it, but damn, its a lot of work.
TOMABANEFOX
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User ID: 27382151
United States
11/25/2012 07:26 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
dang 2000 calories a day?
sounds like a guvment agent to me.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28305484


2000 is a bare minimum with the amount of labor that I do. You can get by on 600 if all you do is push pixels. Try farming and see what happens on that little of an input...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


"Push pixels", I love that.

I believe that at the very least 3/4s of city people couldn't hack real country living.

It's about the same amount of people that bitch about "lazy" jobless folks. I'd bet 3/4s of them never worked a manual labor job in their life or at least since they were 18.
run away slave

User ID: 28380979
United States
11/25/2012 07:27 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
First of all just heading any where other than a park, relative or friends house when emergency "bugging out" is absurd. Unless you've got the cash/gold to buy some land off someone.

If we are talking emergency survival and your couple of acres. Animals are a luxury, you don't need animal protein to survive, you can live a damn long time without even balanced protein intake. Vitamins and potatoes would keep you alive a damn long time.

If your going to make a long term living on the land without any saved money or off land income, I think the poster is basically correct. Its going to be damn hard. Probably not reasonably feasable for most people.
 Quoting: Fred 28206473


I'm pretty much talking about all scenarios here. Don't think for a minute you can just walk out the door with a bug out bag and head to the countryside. Any place that might be reasonable to inhabit probably already is someones landholding, and if it is not, the outsider just showing up and 'squatting' is not going to be welcomed.

As for going it on a couple of acres, I beg to differ. Let's say you can survive off just potatoes and a ruck sack of vitamins. Figured out how many acres of potatoes are required to feed one person for one year? The answer is not comforting. Then there is the wood lot for cooking fire, heating source and to build a shelter.

The whole notion of countryfication is phantasmagorical at best for most sub/urbanites.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


OP's right folks, If my family would'nt have been one of the first families in this area in 1800, people would not have trusted me here 2 yrs ago when i moved here. Life is hard, only 92 acres but we grow r own food garden, chickens etc. Prices at the grocery store is 5 times what it is sold for in the city. Livestock feed is also more expensive. I'm glad i moved here when i did, it would be hard for new people in a shtf situation. I can also tell u when shtf these people around here wont accept any new city slickers.

Last Edited by run away slave on 11/25/2012 07:28 PM
dont dovolit člen určitý bastard nést tebe dole
Anonymous Coward
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Australia
11/25/2012 07:27 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
bsflag
I'm ready, I've bought and watched The DVD boxed set of Green Acres
tandym

User ID: 14038453
United States
11/25/2012 07:28 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
I grew up in the country, living a few miles from a rural Wisconsin town. I look forward to going back to that type of lifestyle one day (hopefully soon).

However, that said, people in small towns these days, live the same dependent lifestyle as people in the cities or the burbs.

The days of everyone with their own garden is gone. Those small towners want cable and tech gadgets just as much as anyone else seems to.

The earning potential in a rural area is quite limited... unless like my mom always said ... you bring your 'job' with you (meaning a business, or you're a necessary commodity like a doctor or even a lawyer or law enforcement).

As for SHTF living -- if you don't have a way to heat your home that doesn't depend on infrastructure, you will be screwed just like everyone else... screwed and cold.

Invest in a highly-efficient wood stove, burn hard woods and you will be able to sustain yourself for awhile (since you can always boil a pot of water on that stove...it's how I grew up, its not fun getting up to reload the wood stove in the middle of the night, but it works).

OP may know a lot about farming and what it takes to have a sustainable farm. But that isn't the only lifestyle you can choose to have in the country.

And you WILL be an outsider there. And you WILL have to earn their trust -- even after 10-15 years, you still won't quite be 'one' of them. However, the 'network' of neighbors and friends will be worth it. But comes at a price... everyone will also know your business.
Second Best
User ID: 28115524
Canada
11/25/2012 07:28 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Dude get a grip.
I grew up in the northwest territories just sime 50kms south of the tundra.
You have no clue. Give your head a shake
my2centsworth

User ID: 5382682
Canada
11/25/2012 07:29 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


Actually we calculated that 80 acres was the bare minimum here if you wanted to live off of your own land... and about 50 to 60 acres of that had to be bush that you could draw wood from for winter heat as well as year round cooking.
The garden would need to be at least 3/4 of an acre with about a third portion of that, being planted with potatoes.

Though the work is hard and needs to be done daily, it's also very soul satisfying when you sit down to a meal completely harvested from your own land, by hand. It's a feeling you have to experience to know.. very difficult to describe.
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11/25/2012 07:29 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
and your a hick
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28441192


Maybe, but I'd bet he knows the difference between "your" and you're.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27382151


lolsign
TOMABANEFOX
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 26820407
United States
11/25/2012 07:29 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
bsflag
I'm ready, I've bought and watched The DVD boxed set of Green Acres
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28469780


Now why didn't I think of that?
tandym

User ID: 14038453
United States
11/25/2012 07:33 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
First of all just heading any where other than a park, relative or friends house when emergency "bugging out" is absurd. Unless you've got the cash/gold to buy some land off someone.

If we are talking emergency survival and your couple of acres. Animals are a luxury, you don't need animal protein to survive, you can live a damn long time without even balanced protein intake. Vitamins and potatoes would keep you alive a damn long time.

If your going to make a long term living on the land without any saved money or off land income, I think the poster is basically correct. Its going to be damn hard. Probably not reasonably feasable for most people.
 Quoting: Fred 28206473


I'm pretty much talking about all scenarios here. Don't think for a minute you can just walk out the door with a bug out bag and head to the countryside. Any place that might be reasonable to inhabit probably already is someones landholding, and if it is not, the outsider just showing up and 'squatting' is not going to be welcomed.

As for going it on a couple of acres, I beg to differ. Let's say you can survive off just potatoes and a ruck sack of vitamins. Figured out how many acres of potatoes are required to feed one person for one year? The answer is not comforting. Then there is the wood lot for cooking fire, heating source and to build a shelter.

The whole notion of countryfication is phantasmagorical at best for most sub/urbanites.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


OP's right folks, If my family would'nt have been one of the first families in this area in 1800, people would not have trusted me here 2 yrs ago when i moved here. Life is hard, only 92 acres but we grow r own food garden, chickens etc. Prices at the grocery store is 5 times what it is sold for in the city. Livestock feed is also more expensive. I'm glad i moved here when i did, it would be hard for new people in a shtf situation. I can also tell u when shtf these people around here wont accept any new city slickers.
 Quoting: run away slave


I could go back to my small town now and belong -- but only because I grew up there and many of the 'adults' there know me and would welcome me & mine back. That said however, its interesting that the whole time we lived there growing up... the old timers never really 'trusted' my parents at all. Funny how things work out. And say what you want about facebook -- because of it, I have reconnected with those kids (now adults) I grew up with and because of social media, I know we would have a place we could retreat to if needed. The fact that its 1000 miles away from where I live now might be an issue however. :-P
Unit3

User ID: 9834739
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11/25/2012 07:33 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
As a city dweller, I knew I wanted the skills to live anywhere. So, I've lived off the land, lived on a very small farm and am back in the city. Why? Just go to YouTube and search perma culture.

Once a perma culture set up is established, an area the size of a football field can feed 100 families for one year with one person maintaining it! In my city, there are homes that you cannot see if you are standing in the street looking at it, because of the "food forest."

If you set up a food forest, it won't provide food overnight, but it is a great way for city dwellers and/or country people to raise food.

I've tried to get my town to convert some of the city parks into at least partial food forests so people can learn how to do this in their yard or even on a patio in pots. So far, I haven't been successful but that's okay. At least it's getting people to think. Spread it around and see what happens in your area.

Edit: typo

Last Edited by U3 on 11/25/2012 07:34 PM
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:33 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Why do so many rural people think people who live in cities are weak and stupid?! You live in a fantasy world. Plus how can 320 million people in the U.S. all live in the 'country'? How? Does the boonies have a viable economy[s] to keep them and the U.S. afloat? Absofuckinglutely not.

And stop with the fear porn and out of control paranoia. It isn't doomsday or some post-apocalyptic place where I live [a big city], not by a long shot. We aren't all dodging bullets, foraging for food lmao .....I mean seriously, WTF? There are obviously a lot of people in this country and elsewhere who haven't been properly socialized growing up and haven't learned to get along comfortably with millions of others of their own species. The thought of living in any place bigger than say 50,000 people scares them.It's ridiculous.

If shit happens, we deal with it just like rural people. And you should realize a lot of the shit you see on the news, TV, movies is bullshit. They HYPE fear and chaos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28397515


It's silly. Most people moving out to the rural areas are more wealthy professionals that want to move away from the urban life. Technology has made living in rural areas far much easier. Internet has brought in a lot and high technology for farming has made farming on small lots even more feasible than ever. My neighbor is growing tons of strawberries on a half-acre lot and other vegetables on another half-acre lot, all the time utilizing methods found online from Israeli farmers. They got plenty of food everyday. This isn't the 1930's anymore, of course if you're a poor dumb farmer, you can't compete with us professionals, but that's why you move to the city and sell your land to us to use, because we'll be far more successful and far more efficient with it than you ever have.

Don't listen to this fear monger, farming is easier than ever nowadays. OP is reminiscing of the early days where farming was difficult and required lots of attention because of lack of technology. I have a garden full of vegetables and I rarely ever have to go to the supermarket for something. Usually I mostly just go to get jalapenos, mmmm, since that's not growing in my garden yet. Yes, you're not going to get rich being a farmer, but that's why people are doing farming as a side job and doing their professional job on the other hand. Any excess food, you just sell or give away to your neighbors.
sTTsTTT

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11/25/2012 07:34 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
I would be willing to learn and work really hard but I know that I wouldn't be able to do it alone.
 Quoting: geminilion


GeminiLion, you said the magic words. You get the duck!

Really, it's all about attitude when relocating. You are willing to learn. You're probably willing to adapt to new surroundings & way of life. In small rural communities the emphasis is on community. No man is an island; no man stands alone...

Barter & co-op is alive and well. Ssssssh, don't tell Uncle Sam. People have skill-sets in so many different areas of expertise, yet seem at times unwilling to use them for something other than filthy lucre. (Always loved that term LOL)

My girlfriends & I would get together and share the workloads. One loved "grubbing in the dirt", she did a lot of the hand harvesting. Another loved chopping & splitting wood for stress relief, she built & tended the fires underneath the kettles. A third loved preparing the fruits & vegetables, and did it such tender loving care. Me? I'd be armpit deep in flour making breads & tasties to send everyone home with, in addition to jars of this & that we made that day. One thing we had was esprit de corps.

Their husbands had mechanical, engineering, and Jack-of-all-Trades respectively. Add into the mix their extended families. Yes, I was the outlander ;-)
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tandym

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11/25/2012 07:35 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


Actually we calculated that 80 acres was the bare minimum here if you wanted to live off of your own land... and about 50 to 60 acres of that had to be bush that you could draw wood from for winter heat as well as year round cooking.
The garden would need to be at least 3/4 of an acre with about a third portion of that, being planted with potatoes.

Though the work is hard and needs to be done daily, it's also very soul satisfying when you sit down to a meal completely harvested from your own land, by hand. It's a feeling you have to experience to know.. very difficult to describe.
 Quoting: my2centsworth


Yeah, I didn't really 'get it' when I was a kid, but I appreciate the lessons learned now as an adult. My kids have no clue, hehe.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 26820407
United States
11/25/2012 07:38 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Once a perma culture set up is established, an area the size of a football field can feed 100 families for one year with one person maintaining it!
 Quoting: Unit3


This is hyperbole. A football field is 1.3 acres. An acre of tree fruit will produce somewhere in the region of 15 million Kcal. That could feed 20 people for a year. While I do use parts of permaculture, this claim is absolutely pie in the sky.
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:40 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Do you think the government is going to allow careless people to bug out in forests and accidentally set the forests on fire? There will be no rambo style stealthing in forest regions. The military will prevent you. And forget about bringing your wife and kids. They will only make it impossible for your escape. Thats the sad reality.
brent pops

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11/25/2012 07:40 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Well, if you live in say the southwest u.s. It would be really hard. But on part forest part pastures its not a big deal. Chickens, cows, squirels, wild hogs, 3 acres of fish etc..

After taking inventory you need several ways to get protein. If you have shelter, protein, water & toilet paper your 80% good to go. The rest you can barter for.
"Putting your hand into a river, you simultaneously touch the last of what is passing and the first of what is coming."
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