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Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.

 
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:41 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
In a SHTF scenario, the people that will try and flee to the boonies are not the inner city crowd (too scared to go out to the woods) nor the basic blue collar worker (they and their families have lived in the cities for generations) - it will be the white collar yuppie types that have a mini-van and 2.5 kids, that flee with the clothes on their back and the only gun they have ever seen is that old .38 that was inherited from grandpa that's now rusty because it sat in the attic for the past 20 years along with that 1/2 a box of ammo manufactured in 1965.
These will be the people you will find flooding your area and camping on your property - and most wouldn't know a hammer from a saw, much less have done any manual labor.
These will be the people that try and build a fire in the open in high wind because they don't know better and burn your crops and house and scatter your livestock, these are the people that will piss and shit in your once clean spring or creek because "well, a toilet has water in it" ......

You get the idea !
Burt Gummer

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11/25/2012 07:41 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Keeping chickens is easy and a person doesn't have to run a dairy farm to keep a milk cow.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28210306


the problem with this kind of thinking is that yes, if you were to only have some chickens, that would be easy.

add to that all the other really "easy" things to do like chop haul wood, "throw seeds in the ground" (and watch the animals eat them), haul water, deal with your garbage, do the dishes, keep things sanitary, get food, grow wheat, hull wheat, grind wheat (if your wheat survives).

sure all these things are "easy" when taken on their own divorced from the reality that you will need to do at least 50 of things "easy" things per day.

day after day after day. year after year. ya, sure, chickens are easy.

i only have 5 acres and i've been working at it 2 years.
and i thought having a garden would be "easy"

all those seed packets say "easy to grow".

everything sounds so easy.

seriously people, you better start learning how to do this stuff like yesterday.

i have so much ahead of me to prepare and learn.
it's mindblowing really.

but i find it to be fun to do as i like a difficult task that takes a lot of energy.

but this is not for the weak.
 Quoting: pink cat


The simple and necessary solution to this is SPECIALIZATIONS within small communities.
Then no one person is doing everything.

Think Amish.
They have been doing it for a LONG time.
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:42 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Well it seems that there are a lot of knowledgeable people in this thread, so here goes. If living at 6000 feet, would growing indoors with a few 1000 watt hps/ mh lamps during the winter be more efficient than a green house? I can keep the greenhouse stable at 52 degrees in freezing temps but not sure if it would effect yields as much as I think. Any help would be appreciated
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957683


Indoors in the winter would be better if you have the room. I would just use straight hps and no mh. Not much will grow at the temp you mentioned other that a few cold weather veggies. Not sure what "crops" you have in mind, but if it is what I think your talking about, indoors until warmer weather would be best.
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:42 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
OP is living in a fantasy world that doesn't exist. The country has gone hitech as the city. Dairy farms have robitics to milk cows and operate tractors. I have no idea what the OP is nattering on about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25244523


Better stick to the urban landscape then. OP is correct, it's very very hard work just to get the basic comforts, and one is ALWAYS dirty and the skin on your hands splits and hurts, it's freezing in winter and boiling in summer, and something is always breaking through the fences, eating all the chickens, the fucking birds are always stripping the fruit trees, the rain NEVER comes when it should (and no that isn't the global warming crap), and if there are any olives, fruit or nut trees coming into harvest (that the brds havent got) your neighbours will clear those out for you on the very weekend you slip ff somewhere.
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:42 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Not to worry

After the Three Days of Darkness, all will be much better for those remaining.

The thugs will have been removed from the planet and there will be no more wars.

Just be sure you are away from the coast and at an elevation of 800 ft or higher
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:43 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Why do so many rural people think people who live in cities are weak and stupid?! You live in a fantasy world. Plus how can 320 million people in the U.S. all live in the 'country'? How? Does the boonies have a viable economy[s] to keep them and the U.S. afloat? Absofuckinglutely not.

And stop with the fear porn and out of control paranoia. It isn't doomsday or some post-apocalyptic place where I live [a big city], not by a long shot. We aren't all dodging bullets, foraging for food lmao .....I mean seriously, WTF? There are obviously a lot of people in this country and elsewhere who haven't been properly socialized growing up and haven't learned to get along comfortably with millions of others of their own species. The thought of living in any place bigger than say 50,000 people scares them.It's ridiculous.

If shit happens, we deal with it just like rural people. And you should realize a lot of the shit you see on the news, TV, movies is bullshit. They HYPE fear and chaos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28397515


It's silly. Most people moving out to the rural areas are more wealthy professionals that want to move away from the urban life. Technology has made living in rural areas far much easier. Internet has brought in a lot and high technology for farming has made farming on small lots even more feasible than ever. My neighbor is growing tons of strawberries on a half-acre lot and other vegetables on another half-acre lot, all the time utilizing methods found online from Israeli farmers. They got plenty of food everyday. This isn't the 1930's anymore, of course if you're a poor dumb farmer, you can't compete with us professionals, but that's why you move to the city and sell your land to us to use, because we'll be far more successful and far more efficient with it than you ever have.

Don't listen to this fear monger, farming is easier than ever nowadays. OP is reminiscing of the early days where farming was difficult and required lots of attention because of lack of technology. I have a garden full of vegetables and I rarely ever have to go to the supermarket for something. Usually I mostly just go to get jalapenos, mmmm, since that's not growing in my garden yet. Yes, you're not going to get rich being a farmer, but that's why people are doing farming as a side job and doing their professional job on the other hand. Any excess food, you just sell or give away to your neighbors.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24957083


Dude, you crack me up.

I bet you're blogging in front of Starbucks right now, sucking down a skinny soy latte.coffee4
thetrickybigguy
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11/25/2012 07:44 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Once a perma culture set up is established, an area the size of a football field can feed 100 families for one year with one person maintaining it!
 Quoting: Unit3


This is hyperbole. A football field is 1.3 acres. An acre of tree fruit will produce somewhere in the region of 15 million Kcal. That could feed 20 people for a year. While I do use parts of permaculture, this claim is absolutely pie in the sky.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


about a year ago i watched i vid where in california they grew 6K pounds of food a year on just 1/8 of an acre...

i kept the vid in my favs but haven't located it.
Falling down is a part of life, getting back up is living. ~

Life is about choices, you get to make them each and every day of your life. ~

Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.~

Only in America... do we use the word 'politics' to describe the process so well: 'Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'bloodsucking creatures'.~

“When a government is dependent for money upon the bankers, they and not the government leaders control the nation. This is because the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Financiers are without patriotism and without decency.”
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:45 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
as a city slicker turned farmer for 6 years now, its not that hard....you can make it hard or easy.


nothing can prepare you for it....just do the best you can and enjoy it...its not hard...

don't listen to the nay sayers....its all good!
*~Yiskah~*

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11/25/2012 07:45 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
There are some good points here. I agree to an extent that if anyone is planning on moving to the country, they need to be prepared, mentally as well as reading up on farming and/or homesteading. You just can't run out and start country life without a clue, or on a whim. But, it's doesn't have to be as difficult as some of these experienced people have posted. My husband and I moved out of the city a year and a half ago. We are on only 5 acres, and have chickens, rabbits, and goats. You don't need cows for milk, or cattle for meat. We had a very successful first garden this summer, with lots of food that we canned, dried, and froze for the winter. Neighbors told us that gardening was very difficult out here due to high and constant winds, little water, and ground pests, rabbits, etc. We tried it anyway. It took a lot of thought and planning, but we were successful. Now we did already have experience with our small gardens in the city, but everything else, we researched and studied. It didn't happen overnight, but we planned it out, and made it happen. Don't let anyone tell you it's too late, we thought that at first, about three years ago, and nothing has really changed as bad as everyone has expected. If you have the will, and are the determined type, you can make it happen.

It is not for the faint hearted, you have to enjoy this kind of life, but it is worth the peace and quite, as well as the security it offers.

By the way, it's not like we had any extra money floating around, and we had an easy time "moving out to the country." We lost both our jobs and our house in the winter of '08. We had to rent, for several years, and were able to cut some really good deals with the land owner. Like I said, if you are determined, you can accomplish it.
thetrickybigguy
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11/25/2012 07:45 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Not to worry

After the Three Days of Darkness, all will be much better for those remaining.

The thugs will have been removed from the planet and there will be no more wars.

Just be sure you are away from the coast and at an elevation of 800 ft or higher
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28472918


so i guess 10 feet above sea level here in so fl just won't cut it, huh?

cruise

Last Edited by thetrickybigguy on 11/25/2012 07:45 PM
Falling down is a part of life, getting back up is living. ~

Life is about choices, you get to make them each and every day of your life. ~

Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.~

Only in America... do we use the word 'politics' to describe the process so well: 'Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'bloodsucking creatures'.~

“When a government is dependent for money upon the bankers, they and not the government leaders control the nation. This is because the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Financiers are without patriotism and without decency.”
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:45 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Words of a fool. Only city folk need to be concerned with moving.
Desert FoxModerator
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11/25/2012 07:45 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
As a city dweller, I knew I wanted the skills to live anywhere. So, I've lived off the land, lived on a very small farm and am back in the city. Why? Just go to YouTube and search perma culture.

Once a perma culture set up is established, an area the size of a football field can feed 100 families for one year with one person maintaining it! In my city, there are homes that you cannot see if you are standing in the street looking at it, because of the "food forest."

If you set up a food forest, it won't provide food overnight, but it is a great way for city dwellers and/or country people to raise food.

I've tried to get my town to convert some of the city parks into at least partial food forests so people can learn how to do this in their yard or even on a patio in pots. So far, I haven't been successful but that's okay. At least it's getting people to think. Spread it around and see what happens in your area.

Edit: typo
 Quoting: Unit3


Sorry but you are so delusional.
TOMABANEFOX
Unit3

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11/25/2012 07:47 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Once a perma culture set up is established, an area the size of a football field can feed 100 families for one year with one person maintaining it!
 Quoting: Unit3


This is hyperbole. A football field is 1.3 acres. An acre of tree fruit will produce somewhere in the region of 15 million Kcal. That could feed 20 people for a year. While I do use parts of permaculture, this claim is absolutely pie in the sky.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


about a year ago i watched i vid where in california they grew 6K pounds of food a year on just 1/8 of an acre...

i kept the vid in my favs but haven't located it.
 Quoting: thetrickybigguy




I had the same video and tried to find it too, LOL!
Desert FoxModerator
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11/25/2012 07:48 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Not to worry

After the Three Days of Darkness, all will be much better for those remaining.

The thugs will have been removed from the planet and there will be no more wars.

Just be sure you are away from the coast and at an elevation of 800 ft or higher
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28472918


so i guess 10 feet above sea level here in so fl just won't cut it, huh?

cruise
 Quoting: thetrickybigguy


Not to worry, sharks have to eat too you know.
TOMABANEFOX
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11/25/2012 07:48 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Nice post OP. City people will probably stay in their death traps until they litterally starve waiting for big brother to feed them. Suberbia will be split betweening waiting for deliverance and bugging out but most of them are just city dwellers who want a little more space to live in. Even a lot of rural folks that aren't too far outside of a city are really dependent on the supply chain. Most people really just have no clue how dependent they are on others and the learning curve will be deadly steep if the power ever goes out for more than a few weeks.

Oh, and book knowledge about how to do something is not the same thing as first hand practical experience. Buying property out in the sticks that you never spend any time on will give you a place to be, not the ability to use it.
"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787
jdb

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11/25/2012 07:49 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


I (respectfully) think I hear your message loud and clear op - you're gonna be fine...you're happy you're gonna be fine...and as far as I can tell...ain't gonna do much to help anyone you deem unfit, i.e. city folk!

Well...if true...that would make you part of the problem as opposed to part of the solution...yes op?

Thanks for all the good will!
God Is! We're not! Let's knock off all the nonsense!
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:50 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407

Country life may not be fantastic but it is not all that bad. If the Op and the old time locals had stood up to Urbanites that had moved in, they would not have any problems.So OP only has themselves to blame(and a lot of sour grapes to boot).
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:50 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
I agree with Hank

Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:50 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


Anyone who bugs out to the country is an idiot anyway. When a crisis hits, just die. Stop fighting fate.
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:51 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
OP is living in a fantasy world that doesn't exist. The country has gone hitech as the city. Dairy farms have robitics to milk cows and operate tractors. I have no idea what the OP is nattering on about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25244523


he's talking about living like a mountain man.You know hiding out so noone knows where you are.I believe there are many who like me grew up farming and migrated to the city when the feds took our farmlands over. Yes it will be difficult but theres nothing like it in the whole wide world, owning and keeping what your family raises.Most of you will research and decide to tough it out in the city.When the shtf there will be a huge migration from the cities to the countryside.They will need guidance and help just like in 1642.So I hope you Jerimiah Johnson type dont mind a lot of company
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/25/2012 07:51 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
about a year ago i watched i vid where in california they grew 6K pounds of food a year on just 1/8 of an acre...
 Quoting: thetrickybigguy


What where the inputs? Can they do that year in year out without importing compost/manure? Color me dubious.
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:52 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
I bet that OP can milk a cow in about thirty seconds flat...(Bulls too)!
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:53 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Well it seems that there are a lot of knowledgeable people in this thread, so here goes. If living at 6000 feet, would growing indoors with a few 1000 watt hps/ mh lamps during the winter be more efficient than a green house? I can keep the greenhouse stable at 52 degrees in freezing temps but not sure if it would effect yields as much as I think. Any help would be appreciated
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957683


Indoors in the winter would be better if you have the room. I would just use straight hps and no mh. Not much will grow at the temp you mentioned other that a few cold weather veggies. Not sure what "crops" you have in mind, but if it is what I think your talking about, indoors until warmer weather would be best.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8433248


Mainly talking about tomatoes and leafy greens, not herb. I have A few 1000 watt dual hps/ mh bulb 60/40 ratio to help with the veg, with 2 10' x 10' indoor grow rooms lined with Mylar along with inline fans, thermometer and humidity reader. My main concern is lack of soil indoors, I prefer smart pots but even with the airflow to the root systems, nothing beats putting your plants in soil.
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 07:54 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


I (respectfully) think I hear your message loud and clear op - you're gonna be fine...you're happy you're gonna be fine...and as far as I can tell...ain't gonna do much to help anyone you deem unfit, i.e. city folk!

Well...if true...that would make you part of the problem as opposed to part of the solution...yes op?

Thanks for all the good will!

 Quoting: jdb


Once again we hear from the "what you have and have worked for belongs to us too" crowd !
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22022484
United States
11/25/2012 07:55 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


gonzo2
Unit3

User ID: 9834739
United States
11/25/2012 07:55 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Once a perma culture set up is established, an area the size of a football field can feed 100 families for one year with one person maintaining it!
 Quoting: Unit3


This is hyperbole. A football field is 1.3 acres. An acre of tree fruit will produce somewhere in the region of 15 million Kcal. That could feed 20 people for a year. While I do use parts of permaculture, this claim is absolutely pie in the sky.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407




You don't just plant fruit trees. You plant 7 layers of food.
I can't prove those statistics so you may be right, but there is still a case for permaculture.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
11/25/2012 07:56 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Mainly talking about tomatoes and leafy greens, not herb. I have A few 1000 watt dual hps/ mh bulb 60/40 ratio to help with the veg, with 2 10' x 10' indoor grow rooms lined with Mylar along with inline fans, thermometer and humidity reader. My main concern is lack of soil indoors, I prefer smart pots but even with the airflow to the root systems, nothing beats putting your plants in soil.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957683


Not to be pedantic, but as the industrial construct fails, the ability to power grow lights will evaporate.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24909641
Australia
11/25/2012 07:57 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Keeping chickens is easy and a person doesn't have to run a dairy farm to keep a milk cow.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28210306


.......

but this is not for the weak.
 Quoting: pink cat


The simple and necessary solution to this is SPECIALIZATIONS within small communities.
Then no one person is doing everything.

Think Amish.
They have been doing it for a LONG time.
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


How sweet, "just think Amish" ..... How simple can it be??? lol

Simplifying things is great ..... Just not your thought processes.
OICU812

User ID: 20892214
United States
11/25/2012 07:58 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
and your a hick
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28441192


YOU'RE a hick...
"Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 957683
United States
11/25/2012 07:58 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Mainly talking about tomatoes and leafy greens, not herb. I have A few 1000 watt dual hps/ mh bulb 60/40 ratio to help with the veg, with 2 10' x 10' indoor grow rooms lined with Mylar along with inline fans, thermometer and humidity reader. My main concern is lack of soil indoors, I prefer smart pots but even with the airflow to the root systems, nothing beats putting your plants in soil.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957683


Not to be pedantic, but as the industrial construct fails, the ability to power grow lights will evaporate.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


Forgot to mention the 2 1800 watt solar power genorwtors, that was my first concern.

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