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Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24909641
Australia
11/25/2012 08:00 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
As a city dweller, I knew I wanted the skills to live anywhere. So, I've lived off the land, lived on a very small farm and am back in the city. Why? Just go to YouTube and search perma culture.

Once a perma culture set up is established, an area the size of a football field can feed 100 families for one year with one person maintaining it! In my city, there are homes that you cannot see if you are standing in the street looking at it, because of the "food forest."

If you set up a food forest, it won't provide food overnight, but it is a great way for city dwellers and/or country people to raise food.

I've tried to get my town to convert some of the city parks into at least partial food forests so people can learn how to do this in their yard or even on a patio in pots. So far, I haven't been successful but that's okay. At least it's getting people to think. Spread it around and see what happens in your area.

Edit: typo
 Quoting: Unit3


Sorry but you are so delusional.
 Quoting: Desert Fox


Food forests, food jungles ... IMAGINE THE PREDATORS THAT HANG OUT THERE,
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
11/25/2012 08:02 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
You don't just plant fruit trees. You plant 7 layers of food.
I can't prove those statistics so you may be right, but there is still a case for permaculture.
 Quoting: Unit3


OK, here is the dirty truth about permaculture: it is based on cultivating land that produces year round with additional land producing mulches and compost. It is a rarefied acreage that can actually implement a full permaculture regime. In the US perhaps parts of Florida are appropriate. Outside that you have to modify the process.

Believe me, if I tried to have 6 layers of food going under my fruit trees here at 43.5 lattitude, I would not get anywhere near the crop I do because the nutrients would be going to other than the trees. Permaculture is a novel goal, but unattainable for most.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
11/25/2012 08:02 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Once a perma culture set up is established, an area the size of a football field can feed 100 families for one year with one person maintaining it!
 Quoting: Unit3


This is hyperbole. A football field is 1.3 acres. An acre of tree fruit will produce somewhere in the region of 15 million Kcal. That could feed 20 people for a year. While I do use parts of permaculture, this claim is absolutely pie in the sky.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


about a year ago i watched i vid where in california they grew 6K pounds of food a year on just 1/8 of an acre...

i kept the vid in my favs but haven't located it.
 Quoting: thetrickybigguy


Anonymous Coward
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United States
11/25/2012 08:02 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
That's mighty arrogant of ya, hick.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28210306


Hick? Do you know how difficult farming and ranching are? You have to be a mechanic, electrician, veterinarian, chemist, botanist, account, financier, and a dozen other duties.
 Quoting: DarthDickheadus:AmericanSith


and farming is considered to be one the most dangerous jobs
Unit3

User ID: 9834739
United States
11/25/2012 08:03 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Once a perma culture set up is established, an area the size of a football field can feed 100 families for one year with one person maintaining it!
 Quoting: Unit3


This is hyperbole. A football field is 1.3 acres. An acre of tree fruit will produce somewhere in the region of 15 million Kcal. That could feed 20 people for a year. While I do use parts of permaculture, this claim is absolutely pie in the sky.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407




You don't just plant fruit trees. You plant 7 layers of food.
I can't prove those statistics so you may be right, but there is still a case for permaculture.
 Quoting: Unit3





By the way, I'll just go ahead and add this. I have also subsisted quite well on one meal per week. The rest of the time I drank juice or milk. I had no energy loss. In fact, it was quite the opposite. I did this for 68 days. I wanted to find out how little food I could subsist on.

I have also experimented with sprouts, which are packed with nutrition. I don't really care for them but I found ways to incorporate then into my diet that makes them palatable.

I think all of us can probably find out that we can get by on less food than we think and we can power pack our nutritional needs. Don't be afraid to experiment.

Most of all, I think it's important to get scarcity and doom thinking out of our mindsets.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
11/25/2012 08:03 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Once a perma culture set up is established, an area the size of a football field can feed 100 families for one year with one person maintaining it!
 Quoting: Unit3


This is hyperbole. A football field is 1.3 acres. An acre of tree fruit will produce somewhere in the region of 15 million Kcal. That could feed 20 people for a year. While I do use parts of permaculture, this claim is absolutely pie in the sky.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


about a year ago i watched i vid where in california they grew 6K pounds of food a year on just 1/8 of an acre...

i kept the vid in my favs but haven't located it.
 Quoting: thetrickybigguy


with thousands and thousands of gallons of water. moved by fossil fuels.
stinky1

User ID: 13390464
Canada
11/25/2012 08:04 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Ain't that the truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28415203


Ain't that the truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28415203


As i lay hers reading this i can see my breath. 6 pm started fire in stove at 11 am and it is only 10c in the cabin. Metros and homos wont make it when the power is out. My black co- worker goes home to his white wife and brood of three to spend his six days off playing geArs of war. Yet he has no real guns. The cities will be cut throat chaos. Get away of the people the minorities with a strong sense of entitlement.
Unit3

User ID: 9834739
United States
11/25/2012 08:05 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
You don't just plant fruit trees. You plant 7 layers of food.
I can't prove those statistics so you may be right, but there is still a case for permaculture.
 Quoting: Unit3


OK, here is the dirty truth about permaculture: it is based on cultivating land that produces year round with additional land producing mulches and compost. It is a rarefied acreage that can actually implement a full permaculture regime. In the US perhaps parts of Florida are appropriate. Outside that you have to modify the process.

Believe me, if I tried to have 6 layers of food going under my fruit trees here at 43.5 lattitude, I would not get anywhere near the crop I do because the nutrients would be going to other than the trees. Permaculture is a novel goal, but unattainable for most.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407




Please go to YouTube and watch some of the permaculture videos. I don't know about your latitude and the rest, but if everybody starts growing food instead of lawns (for God's sake, LOL), it would be amazing the difference just that would make.
TheCartel

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United States
11/25/2012 08:05 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
I need more ammo
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28476784
United States
11/25/2012 08:07 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
There are ways to make living in a very rural are work, mostly by working together but in the end it will all burn......that is a promise.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 26820407
United States
11/25/2012 08:08 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Please go to YouTube and watch some of the permaculture videos. I don't know about your latitude and the rest, but if everybody starts growing food instead of lawns (for God's sake, LOL), it would be amazing the difference just that would make.
 Quoting: Unit3


I own this amongst others:

[link to www.worldcat.org]

I have used many of the concepts therein. Mollison was greatly influenced by rainforests in his conceptualizations. If you live in one fine. Most in this country do not.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27129259
United States
11/25/2012 08:09 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
agenda 21 is coming.

it won't matter...

I'm just hoping Jesus comes first.

or maybe rapture.

don't want to live in the hunger games.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24909641
Australia
11/25/2012 08:09 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Well it seems that there are a lot of knowledgeable people in this thread, so here goes. If living at 6000 feet, would growing indoors with a few 1000 watt hps/ mh lamps during the winter be more efficient than a green house? I can keep the greenhouse stable at 52 degrees in freezing temps but not sure if it would effect yields as much as I think. Any help would be appreciated
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957683


Indoors in the winter would be better if you have the room. I would just use straight hps and no mh. Not much will grow at the temp you mentioned other that a few cold weather veggies. Not sure what "crops" you have in mind, but if it is what I think your talking about, indoors until warmer weather would be best.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8433248


Mainly talking about tomatoes and leafy greens, not herb. I have A few 1000 watt dual hps/ mh bulb 60/40 ratio to help with the veg, with 2 10' x 10' indoor grow rooms lined with Mylar along with inline fans, thermometer and humidity reader. My main concern is lack of soil indoors, I prefer smart pots but even with the airflow to the root systems, nothing beats putting your plants in soil.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957683


You sound rather dependant on technology, will you have guaranteed electricity supply?
Unit3

User ID: 9834739
United States
11/25/2012 08:09 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Once a perma culture set up is established, an area the size of a football field can feed 100 families for one year with one person maintaining it!
 Quoting: Unit3


This is hyperbole. A football field is 1.3 acres. An acre of tree fruit will produce somewhere in the region of 15 million Kcal. That could feed 20 people for a year. While I do use parts of permaculture, this claim is absolutely pie in the sky.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


about a year ago i watched i vid where in california they grew 6K pounds of food a year on just 1/8 of an acre...

i kept the vid in my favs but haven't located it.
 Quoting: thetrickybigguy


with thousands and thousands of gallons of water. moved by fossil fuels.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28415316




No. They use rainwater. I found the video about rainwater being used in the neighborhood this poster and I have been trying to find. Please just study it for yourself. Try to be open minded about it. Wouldn't it be great if you learned something that could help you and your family like this?


Anonymous Coward
User ID: 957683
United States
11/25/2012 08:11 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
...


This is hyperbole. A football field is 1.3 acres. An acre of tree fruit will produce somewhere in the region of 15 million Kcal. That could feed 20 people for a year. While I do use parts of permaculture, this claim is absolutely pie in the sky.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


about a year ago i watched i vid where in california they grew 6K pounds of food a year on just 1/8 of an acre...

i kept the vid in my favs but haven't located it.
 Quoting: thetrickybigguy


with thousands and thousands of gallons of water. moved by fossil fuels.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28415316




No. They use rainwater. I found the video about rainwater being used in the neighborhood this poster and I have been trying to find. Please just study it for yourself. Try to be open minded about it. Wouldn't it be great if you learned something that could help you and your family like this?



 Quoting: Unit3


Yes, 2 1800 solar power generators.
Unit3

User ID: 9834739
United States
11/25/2012 08:11 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Please go to YouTube and watch some of the permaculture videos. I don't know about your latitude and the rest, but if everybody starts growing food instead of lawns (for God's sake, LOL), it would be amazing the difference just that would make.
 Quoting: Unit3


I own this amongst others:

[link to www.worldcat.org]

I have used many of the concepts therein. Mollison was greatly influenced by rainforests in his conceptualizations. If you live in one fine. Most in this country do not.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407




Awesome. But, I posted a video where Bill talks about how the permaculture sets up a rainforest atmosphere....after a while. (He doesn't use the word rainforest but it's the same idea.) I posted it already so won't post it again.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 957683
United States
11/25/2012 08:12 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Well it seems that there are a lot of knowledgeable people in this thread, so here goes. If living at 6000 feet, would growing indoors with a few 1000 watt hps/ mh lamps during the winter be more efficient than a green house? I can keep the greenhouse stable at 52 degrees in freezing temps but not sure if it would effect yields as much as I think. Any help would be appreciated
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957683


Indoors in the winter would be better if you have the room. I would just use straight hps and no mh. Not much will grow at the temp you mentioned other that a few cold weather veggies. Not sure what "crops" you have in mind, but if it is what I think your talking about, indoors until warmer weather would be best.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8433248


Mainly talking about tomatoes and leafy greens, not herb. I have A few 1000 watt dual hps/ mh bulb 60/40 ratio to help with the veg, with 2 10' x 10' indoor grow rooms lined with Mylar along with inline fans, thermometer and humidity reader. My main concern is lack of soil indoors, I prefer smart pots but even with the airflow to the root systems, nothing beats putting your plants in soil.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957683


You sound rather dependant on technology, will you have guaranteed electricity supply?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24909641


2 1800 watt solar power generators
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 26820407
United States
11/25/2012 08:12 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
No. They use rainwater.


 Quoting: Unit3


Again misleading at best. Yes, in a rainforest the amount of natural rainfall will support multiple layers of plantlife. Live elsewhere and you have to supplement the rainfall. That is why Mollison goes into great detail about rainwater harvesting and the various ways to move that stored water over to your cultivation plots. He is very explicit that you will need to capture and move water to make his systems thrive.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
11/25/2012 08:13 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Awesome. But, I posted a video where Bill talks about how the permaculture sets up a rainforest atmosphere....
 Quoting: Unit3


Ummmmm really? You think that no matter where you are a 1/8 acre plot will become a rain forest? ooof.
Unit3

User ID: 9834739
United States
11/25/2012 08:14 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
...


about a year ago i watched i vid where in california they grew 6K pounds of food a year on just 1/8 of an acre...

i kept the vid in my favs but haven't located it.
 Quoting: thetrickybigguy


with thousands and thousands of gallons of water. moved by fossil fuels.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28415316




No. They use rainwater. I found the video about rainwater being used in the neighborhood this poster and I have been trying to find. Please just study it for yourself. Try to be open minded about it. Wouldn't it be great if you learned something that could help you and your family like this?



 Quoting: Unit3


Yes, 2 1800 solar power generators.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957683




So, figure out a way around that. There's also a YT video of a guy that has a Tesla coil he built at his house. Check out [link to www.keshefoundation.org] Geez, there are so many working on these problems, surely we can come up with some solutions....or find those who have already figured them out.
Unit3

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United States
11/25/2012 08:16 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
No. They use rainwater.


 Quoting: Unit3


Again misleading at best. Yes, in a rainforest the amount of natural rainfall will support multiple layers of plantlife. Live elsewhere and you have to supplement the rainfall. That is why Mollison goes into great detail about rainwater harvesting and the various ways to move that stored water over to your cultivation plots. He is very explicit that you will need to capture and move water to make his systems thrive.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407





You have to supplement it until you have the installation working on its own. They are reclaiming deserts with food forests.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28477471
United States
11/25/2012 08:16 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
This is a very sad thread.

That is because the majority are caught in the mindset of, "American Famrming," i.e., largely people of a European background.

Now.

Let me show you a better way.
That has been used for thousands of years to sustain life.

I'll just give you two things.

One:
Cuy.

Google, YT.

THE most elegant protein source.
They eat GRASS.
Centuries of raising them in homes in Peru, Ecuador.

Take little room. You will be amazed at just how little. Amazed. Eat grass cuttings. Provide high quality... and very delicious... protein source.

Expand your minds. That is what it will take.

Two:
Check out the Vietnamese gardens in East New Orleans, in the Vietnamese enclave.
Check out the various levels/types of gardening that goes on.

Hint: the American way of planting St. Augustine lawns... the ultra-limiting mindset, may well one day kill very many if tshtf... simply because people have been entrained to think in particularly limited and dependent ways.

No being a paid member means I can't post pictures in this thread.
Which really is to the detriment of the entire forum.

Google.
As well, if you can watch the PBS show:
"Vietnamese Cuisine in New Orleans," advise you do so.
This does touch on the gardening practices, from simple to more complex.

You owe it to yourselves to explore how peoples in areas have survived for hundreds to thousands of years.

If you are going to make it, you really are going to have to learn to think outside the box.

I spit out that American Way of so much in terms of basic survival.
I went to, and looked at how other cultures did it for so long...
And still do it.

Learn or Die. (dramatic some?... yea... but, just saying... in an attempt to make a point).
Unit3

User ID: 9834739
United States
11/25/2012 08:17 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Awesome. But, I posted a video where Bill talks about how the permaculture sets up a rainforest atmosphere....
 Quoting: Unit3


Ummmmm really? You think that no matter where you are a 1/8 acre plot will become a rain forest? ooof.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407





Not overnight. No.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28470047
United States
11/25/2012 08:17 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Lets be clear...when the SHTF...you will not walk out to the country and farm....you will not be welcome....

country fold will protect their lands from strangers.


if you are smart and get out now, then you have a chance.

do not think that you will walk out and stake a claim...not gonna happen as the land is already owned.
Burt Gummer

User ID: 7702124
United States
11/25/2012 08:18 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
...


Indoors in the winter would be better if you have the room. I would just use straight hps and no mh. Not much will grow at the temp you mentioned other that a few cold weather veggies. Not sure what "crops" you have in mind, but if it is what I think your talking about, indoors until warmer weather would be best.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8433248


Mainly talking about tomatoes and leafy greens, not herb. I have A few 1000 watt dual hps/ mh bulb 60/40 ratio to help with the veg, with 2 10' x 10' indoor grow rooms lined with Mylar along with inline fans, thermometer and humidity reader. My main concern is lack of soil indoors, I prefer smart pots but even with the airflow to the root systems, nothing beats putting your plants in soil.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957683


You sound rather dependant on technology, will you have guaranteed electricity supply?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24909641


2 1800 watt solar power generators
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957683


Hope you are armed and on 24/7 watch....because those panels will go BUH BYE really quick if it all goes to hell in a handbasket.

rolleyes
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1034800
United States
11/25/2012 08:18 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Hahahahaha lol op is just trying to scare you off.
Pick your location carefully. pick a tropical location. no winter and stuff grows year round and there's so much fruit it's falling off the trees. Aquaponics is a good idea but think in terms of things that you wont need supplies for if something breaks. Try thinking as natural as possible like just have fish ponds. You get some water lillies the fish eat the water lilllies and the mosquitos and bugs and algae. Or you can feed the fish coconut. Growing stuff is easy but start with organic seeds and learn how to sav seed the seeds that are hybrid dont grow the scond time around they are engineered to stop growing so that you have to keep buying seeds. Use companion planting to keep bugs out. Learn which plants are easy to propogate. Anyway, People make things hard for themselves... Harder than it needs to be. If you don't have to deal with winter that makes it even easier. Where I am bananas coconuts mangos guavas grow all over the place. If you are vegetarian you don't have to worry about livestock. Think about a Place where you can do it easier and sustainably. Study which foods are the most nutritious dense foods that are easy to grow like amaranth. Amaranth grows like a weed and its super nutrient dense. Also, you can do a lot I rural areas if you have a decent size back yard. People should have been thinking about edible landscaping. You don't need that many calories and you don't need to work as hard as the op does to just feed yourself and a family. If you think smart about it, it's not that hard.
Unit3

User ID: 9834739
United States
11/25/2012 08:19 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
This is a very sad thread.

That is because the majority are caught in the mindset of, "American Famrming," i.e., largely people of a European background.

Now.

Let me show you a better way.
That has been used for thousands of years to sustain life.

I'll just give you two things.

One:
Cuy.

Google, YT.

THE most elegant protein source.
They eat GRASS.
Centuries of raising them in homes in Peru, Ecuador.

Take little room. You will be amazed at just how little. Amazed. Eat grass cuttings. Provide high quality... and very delicious... protein source.

Expand your minds. That is what it will take.

Two:
Check out the Vietnamese gardens in East New Orleans, in the Vietnamese enclave.
Check out the various levels/types of gardening that goes on.

Hint: the American way of planting St. Augustine lawns... the ultra-limiting mindset, may well one day kill very many if tshtf... simply because people have been entrained to think in particularly limited and dependent ways.

No being a paid member means I can't post pictures in this thread.
Which really is to the detriment of the entire forum.

Google.
As well, if you can watch the PBS show:
"Vietnamese Cuisine in New Orleans," advise you do so.
This does touch on the gardening practices, from simple to more complex.

You owe it to yourselves to explore how peoples in areas have survived for hundreds to thousands of years.

If you are going to make it, you really are going to have to learn to think outside the box.

I spit out that American Way of so much in terms of basic survival.
I went to, and looked at how other cultures did it for so long...
And still do it.

Learn or Die. (dramatic some?... yea... but, just saying... in an attempt to make a point).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28477471




There you go. There are many solutions to the problems we foresee.

Edit: typo

Last Edited by U3 on 11/25/2012 08:20 PM
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 957683
United States
11/25/2012 08:20 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
...


Mainly talking about tomatoes and leafy greens, not herb. I have A few 1000 watt dual hps/ mh bulb 60/40 ratio to help with the veg, with 2 10' x 10' indoor grow rooms lined with Mylar along with inline fans, thermometer and humidity reader. My main concern is lack of soil indoors, I prefer smart pots but even with the airflow to the root systems, nothing beats putting your plants in soil.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957683


You sound rather dependant on technology, will you have guaranteed electricity supply?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24909641


2 1800 watt solar power generators
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957683


Hope you are armed and on 24/7 watch....because those panels will go BUH BYE really quick if it all goes to hell in a handbasket.

rolleyes
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


That very well might happen, maybe I will have to install them in tree canopies. Great point.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 26820407
United States
11/25/2012 08:22 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Hahahahaha lol op is just trying to scare you off.
Pick your location carefully. pick a tropical location.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Yah. Because those tropical regions are uninhabited. Everything I said about us hicks not having open hearts for the urban refugee goes a thousand fold for the people who currently inhabit tropical regions. The concept of other is universal. Trying to move out of the country is going to be an even bigger hurdle than dodging lead in the high county domestically...
Feral Underclass

User ID: 1504223
United States
11/25/2012 08:23 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
dang 2000 calories a day?
sounds like a guvment agent to me.

Lots of study shows a 600 intake prolongs life.


but yeah, most city folk wouldn't last very long out here in the sticks.

speaking of which, you know we cant even get fresh bread now because of the strike after the nazis centralized production to burn more fuel, which raises the cost, which in turn raises the inflation tax. Long short, bring a good bread recipe if you come.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28305484


600 calories won't even maintain your weight let alone give you any kind of reserve for physical work.

Starvation diet much?

Feral

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