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Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.

 
tandym

User ID: 14038453
United States
11/25/2012 08:24 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Once a perma culture set up is established, an area the size of a football field can feed 100 families for one year with one person maintaining it!
 Quoting: Unit3


This is hyperbole. A football field is 1.3 acres. An acre of tree fruit will produce somewhere in the region of 15 million Kcal. That could feed 20 people for a year. While I do use parts of permaculture, this claim is absolutely pie in the sky.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


about a year ago i watched i vid where in california they grew 6K pounds of food a year on just 1/8 of an acre...

i kept the vid in my favs but haven't located it.
 Quoting: thetrickybigguy



 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1148772


NICE! Thanks for linking the vid.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27274750
Canada
11/25/2012 08:24 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


The solution is simple my American Amigo. I own 500 acres over 3 separate lots. I grow 'tomatoes' on one of them. Plant a few here a few there. I grow enough to keep all of my customers happy and my mattress stuffed with Benjamins
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1306067
United States
11/25/2012 08:26 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
I pinned this, the OP has some valid points all though he or she is wrong about certain aspects of rural life, which leaves me questioning the veracity of their claim.
 Quoting: DarthDickheadus:AmericanSith


I agree with your observations. I'm not trying to stir the pot, but having lived the life OP is 'saying' he is, I'm left wondering if he is trying his hand at 'creative writing'.

He doesn't talk like the folks I grew up with. He talks like a kid who loves reading survival forums and and has taken on a persona of his own construction.

Hey, maybe I'm wrong.

PS
OP screws up with the whole wood lot and pasturing. He needs a 1/4 or 1/2 a section up in the mountains. Mountain meadows in early summer are great for grazing and the wood never runs out. There ALWAYS at least 2-3 springs for watering and Morels to die for.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 957683
United States
11/25/2012 08:26 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


The solution is simple my American Amigo. I own 500 acres over 3 separate lots. I grow 'tomatoes' on one of them. Plant a few here a few there. I grow enough to keep all of my customers happy and my mattress stuffed with Benjamins
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27274750


Your funny, Benjamin's are an American currency, not Canadian.
jdb

User ID: 2426721
United States
11/25/2012 08:26 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


I (respectfully) think I hear your message loud and clear op - you're gonna be fine...you're happy you're gonna be fine...and as far as I can tell...ain't gonna do much to help anyone you deem unfit, i.e. city folk!

Well...if true...that would make you part of the problem as opposed to part of the solution...yes op?

Thanks for all the good will!

 Quoting: jdb


Once again we hear from the "what you have and have worked for belongs to us too" crowd !
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24599086


Totally wrong on that one...I've already decided I will give my time and resources to help others! Trying to work this out recognizing that God sees all!

Back in 2007 I went on a missions trip that included Sudan...a couple of miles from the front lines...we were there for pastoral training and medical help for the ones the got shot or hit!

There was a pastor there that did prep and was ready for famine! Famine came and he shared all of his food with his village...and then died with his village!

No greater love than this...that one would lay his life down for his friends! John 15:13

If you think "surving" or "saving" your life is the highest priority...you've got your priorities wrong!

I went through a period of about a year when I thought about "running", but believe God has clearly impressed upon me that He wants me serving and helping others!

Very brash and arrogant of you to assume I, or someone like me would be looking for a handout!

You might have your priorities wrong - self-worship is a terrible god to serve!

Last Edited by jdb on 11/25/2012 08:33 PM
God Is! We're not! Let's knock off all the nonsense!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27274750
Canada
11/25/2012 08:26 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


The solution is simple my American Amigo. I own 500 acres over 3 separate lots. I grow 'tomatoes' on one of them. Plant a few here a few there. I grow enough to keep all of my customers happy and my mattress stuffed with Benjamins
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27274750


Also who needs livestock when there are moose and deer a plenty?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18325964
United States
11/25/2012 08:30 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
and your a hick
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28441192


Put your money where your mouth is. Come out here and try to survive. You'll be crying for your conditioned cocoon in days.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


Hey OPie

what makes you so sure you are much different than others here?

i've lived in metro areas and I've worked in places that YOU would barely survive in.

you think you're special?

think again moran
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 26820407
United States
11/25/2012 08:32 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
OP screws up with the whole wood lot and pasturing. He needs a 1/4 or 1/2 a section up in the mountains.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1306067


Are you referring to a 640 acre section? If only I could have afforded more than what I did. Not to mention the taxes.

Now, my plot is mostly wooded. The average forest around here can sustain a cord of wood per acre per year in harvest. My 800 sqft house uses about 4 cord per year to heat. Most can by with 10. So, if your wood lot is 150-300 acres, you are probably paying more in tax than you really need for survival.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28479140
United States
11/25/2012 08:33 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
...


This is hyperbole. A football field is 1.3 acres. An acre of tree fruit will produce somewhere in the region of 15 million Kcal. That could feed 20 people for a year. While I do use parts of permaculture, this claim is absolutely pie in the sky.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


about a year ago i watched i vid where in california they grew 6K pounds of food a year on just 1/8 of an acre...

i kept the vid in my favs but haven't located it.
 Quoting: thetrickybigguy


with thousands and thousands of gallons of water. moved by fossil fuels.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28415316




No. They use rainwater. I found the video about rainwater being used in the neighborhood this poster and I have been trying to find. Please just study it for yourself. Try to be open minded about it. Wouldn't it be great if you learned something that could help you and your family like this?



 Quoting: Unit3


Unit3 i share your interest and love of permaculture
its sound in principle and is adaptable to any location
but every area is different and has many different challenges also while the principles can be implemented imediately in some cases it will take a lifetime to bring
it to fruition.

OP is right with his original post where i live now is just
full of abandoned homesteads that people have begun then
quit and went back to the cities or warmer climes
get out of low lying areas
User ID: 28472918
United States
11/25/2012 08:35 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Not to worry

After the Three Days of Darkness, all will be much better for those remaining.

The thugs will have been removed from the planet and there will be no more wars.

Just be sure you are away from the coast and at an elevation of 800 ft or higher
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28472918


so i guess 10 feet above sea level here in so fl just won't cut it, huh?

cruise
 Quoting: thetrickybigguy


nope

[link to www.zetatalk.com]
....
Thus, where land in the southeastern US will be pulled under to the degree that water may lap at cities high in the Appalachian mountains, along the eastern seaboard, it will surely pull Florida under the water long enough to drown the populace totally.
....
I would head to the mountains, actually I did 2 years ago

This is for the pole shift that will happen during the 3DD. But that may be sooner than the economic collapse, no one seems to know the timing of either

go here to check how safe your location is:
[link to www.zetatalk.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24909641
Australia
11/25/2012 08:36 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
agenda 21 is coming.

it won't matter...

I'm just hoping Jesus comes first.

or maybe rapture.

don't want to live in the hunger games.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27129259


You not want to live in the hunger games? Look around you, it's already here.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 6888765
United States
11/25/2012 08:38 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
OP is describing life in ALASKA
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80449
United States
11/25/2012 08:38 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
for those of you that think permaculture can only work in the tropics, please note that the majority of North America USED to be managed in this way.

I see thickets in the desert all the time that have multi-levels plants growing. All on less than 12 inches of rain a year. The trick is to pick species that are compatible with your area.

Go do some research on it. Here are some folks to drop into a search engine:

Geoff Lawton - greening the desert in Jordan (tropical forest without increased rainfall)

Sepp Holzer - multi-level food production on rainfall less than 20 inches a year

Brad Lancaster - Food forests in Tuscon Arizona, on rain catchment alone

Mollison himself has several large plots in the desert of Australia.

Increased rainfall or irrigation water increases the speed at which you can establish your forest, and increases the range of species you can grow. But, even without that, there are plenty of native edible species that grow just fine in your climate without additional rainfall.

There are plenty of people doing permaculture in dry climates, temperate climates, etc.

Food Forests are the most space and labor efficient food production systems around. The work is invested at the beginning, and it is a lot of work to get it going, but after the 5th or 6th year, you are basically just maintaining things.

-desert permaculturist
yoda
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26836006
United States
11/25/2012 08:39 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
OP is living in a fantasy world that doesn't exist. The country has gone hitech as the city. Dairy farms have robitics to milk cows and operate tractors. I have no idea what the OP is nattering on about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25244523


Another hick here...try milking those cows with no power. And you will milk them or they can die. You have to raise hay for feed...try it with no gas for balers or trucks to haul it in. Maybe no sprinklers to keep it alive. How will you cut trees, trim them, cut the logs, split the logs, then haul the wood miles to your house? With no gas for the truck. And you do not have a chainsaw anymore. Do it or freeze to death next winter.


"Robotics" cow to milk cows...maybe on an industrial farm with power plants and lots of money. Those fancy tractors can cost 200K and still need men to run them. And gas.

If anyone is living in a fantasy world it is you. Too much television couch potato!

Try bugging out to the country to "take" what you need and you will find little more than a shallow grave. We are harder men than you. We can make it without Burger King and Wal Mart. We have our families with us...and neighbors who will cover our backs. You have a PC and a phone to no where.

When you do get here, you will be out of gas, and you will be walking with your family on a road to more of the same.deadhorse
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28477346
United States
11/25/2012 08:42 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Or move to a smaller city or town (where they can find a job) and meet people who might be able to advise/help them build a better lifestyle. Hang out at the feed store, join a club, become active in a church, be a volunteer firefighter; become a part of the community.
 Quoting: Ralph--a house dog



As someone who has lived in small towns, I can state, beyond any doubt, that small town life is not worth a damn.

Most small town people will not help anyone "build a better lifestyle" because they don't know what that means.

Some of the rudest people I've ever met lived in small towns.

When you live in a small town, you are isolated, depending on location, you might have to make a long drive to city for supplies or dine in a nice restaurant, and small towns are notorious for harboring lowlifes, the ignorant, and people who are unethical and immoral.

While there might be, and that's a stretch, a nicer upscale small town somewhere in this country . . . I feel relatively confident in stating that there is no pleasant, safe, happy little Mayberry-type town.
Desert FoxModerator
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User ID: 8786935
United States
11/25/2012 08:43 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Or move to a smaller city or town (where they can find a job) and meet people who might be able to advise/help them build a better lifestyle. Hang out at the feed store, join a club, become active in a church, be a volunteer firefighter; become a part of the community.
 Quoting: Ralph--a house dog



As someone who has lived in small towns, I can state, beyond any doubt, that small town life is not worth a damn.

Most small town people will not help anyone "build a better lifestyle" because they don't know what that means.

Some of the rudest people I've ever met lived in small towns.

When you live in a small town, you are isolated, depending on location, you might have to make a long drive to city for supplies or dine in a nice restaurant, and small towns are notorious for harboring lowlifes, the ignorant, and people who are unethical and immoral.

While there might be, and that's a stretch, a nicer upscale small town somewhere in this country . . . I feel relatively confident in stating that there is no pleasant, safe, happy little Mayberry-type town.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28477346


FAIL.
TOMABANEFOX
ScienceOnly
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11/25/2012 08:44 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
OP,

I hear you loud and clear.

I am a city boy that has migrated to the country. I have a small 33 acre farm, goats, a little cattle, and will start chickens this February.

Truely the shit is about tohit the fan, and I have taken the last 10 years to come to understand the issues with self-survival on the farm...lots of hard work...BACKBREAKING work...for little return.

It takes me 1 hour to get the goats in, put a few through the headgate to get a half gallon of milk...hands numb with pain afterwards...every drop of the milk is appreciated.

I have hundreds of gallns of gasoline and diesel, workingwith neighbors to barter tractors and implements...

You just can't "walk into"this lifestyle...oh and by the way, I still keep a job in a small nearby town...its been a slow transition.

when will it be time to "turn out the lights" in the city house? hopefulyl not soon and maybe never...yea hard work is barely known in the city...they think going to the gym will prepare them to bend over for 10 hours a day...ha!
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 08:45 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
2000 is a bare minimum with the amount of labor that I do. You can get by on 600 if all you do is push pixels. Try farming and see what happens on that little of an input...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


that just means your stupid
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28441192


What is so stupid about not wanting my body to savage muscle mass so that I can complete the chores of the day?

The amount of work I complete burns more than 2000 calories. Where is that energy going to come from? Orgone? No, first the body robs fat then it eats muscle. Do that long enough and the body will actually go after organ tissue leading to a slow death. No thanks, I'll eat enough food to keep an appropriate BMI/muscle mass.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


110% correct.
+10% for knowing about the organs.
clappa

Navy seals have to eat 3000-4000 calories during hell weak to keep their muscles functioning properly.
The Olympic swimmer Michael Phelps. Well he had to eat 7800 calories a day during training to keep from losing strength and becoming weak from lack of nutrition.
Anonymous Coward
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11/25/2012 08:46 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


Yeah that ^^^^^ plus x100

I have been telling my friends this for a long time and anyone that thinks they will go to the country and be SAFE are especially deluding themselves. Country people are going to have their very own set of trials from those that swarm out there and lay low till they can kill off the land owner and take their goods and livestock.

I hate to tell you how many of my rural/country acquaintances think they can just shoot their way out of anything and that they will survive.

If you have an address,,,,,communicate with neighbors,,,,,shop and use your CC card,,,,,,,have a phone and a bank account out where you live......if you are still on the grid........ever invited anybody to your place.

well think again about just going out to the country and surviving.

The only ones that are going to survive are those that have stayed where they are now for some years......know their neighbors (not for friendship but how they will react and who they are)....know the land.......know how to escape and know how to play DEAD.

It is going to be a roll of the dice for alll of us no matter where we are at present.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80449
United States
11/25/2012 08:49 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
most of the folks in small towns that I know (I have lived in a small town my whole life) are either meth cookers or welfare queens or both.

None of those worthless pieces of skin would be able to survive anything.

that's not everyone in the sticks, just the majority of them...
Eggcellent

User ID: 13043121
United States
11/25/2012 08:51 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Well it seems that there are a lot of knowledgeable people in this thread, so here goes. If living at 6000 feet, would growing indoors with a few 1000 watt hps/ mh lamps during the winter be more efficient than a green house? I can keep the greenhouse stable at 52 degrees in freezing temps but not sure if it would effect yields as much as I think. Any help would be appreciated
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957683




During the current state of affairs, it probably would. However, during a "bug-out" situation, you have to figure that there will be NO ELECTRICITY, although, like those poor Sandy people, you'll no doubt continue to receive your monthly Bills!

There is a reason why "subsistence farmers" work sunup to sundown (or later!). Whatever you are going to feed yourself and your family for A YEAR (until the next crop is HARVESTED, if it doesn't fail for one reason or another) MUST be produced during the warmer, sunshiny months. If you are living at an altitude of 6000 feet, it would be particularly challenging since the ground is rocky, and winter comes early while spring comes late. While you may be relatively safe from marauding migrant "townies", it is Nature herself who will be your most dangerous enemy.

I would suggest researching growing/gardening/farming websites to glean the best information about WHAT will grow and how best to grow it at your elevation. You may want to consider re-locating, or at least coming to some sort of mutual agreement with someone living lower on the mountainside.
"I have come to the conclusion that all news should be treated like 9/11, assume it is a psyop with actors participating in a staged event complete with props, until proven otherwise, in which case assume whatever is being recorded, reported, televised, is distortions/lying by omission/outright lies, until proven otherwise." - Anonymous, 4-13-12
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22026188
United States
11/25/2012 08:52 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26820407


yea, im all set with that. Never intend to go rural unless powers beyond my control call for it. Can do it, did as a child, but not really planning on doing it again, unless shtf im staying comfortable!!peace
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28472918
United States
11/25/2012 08:53 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
most of the folks in small towns that I know (I have lived in a small town my whole life) are either meth cookers or welfare queens or both.

None of those worthless pieces of skin would be able to survive anything.

that's not everyone in the sticks, just the majority of them...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 80449


Many spiritual people were guided to move out of large cities into small towns at a higher elevation.

So if you meditate and follow your guidance, you know what I am referring to
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27382151
United States
11/25/2012 08:54 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
This is a very sad thread.

That is because the majority are caught in the mindset of, "American Famrming," i.e., largely people of a European background.

Now.

Let me show you a better way.
That has been used for thousands of years to sustain life.

I'll just give you two things.

One:
Cuy.

Google, YT.

THE most elegant protein source.
They eat GRASS.
Centuries of raising them in homes in Peru, Ecuador.

Take little room. You will be amazed at just how little. Amazed. Eat grass cuttings. Provide high quality... and very delicious... protein source.

Expand your minds. That is what it will take.

Two:
Check out the Vietnamese gardens in East New Orleans, in the Vietnamese enclave.
Check out the various levels/types of gardening that goes on.

Hint: the American way of planting St. Augustine lawns... the ultra-limiting mindset, may well one day kill very many if tshtf... simply because people have been entrained to think in particularly limited and dependent ways.

No being a paid member means I can't post pictures in this thread.
Which really is to the detriment of the entire forum.

Google.
As well, if you can watch the PBS show:
"Vietnamese Cuisine in New Orleans," advise you do so.
This does touch on the gardening practices, from simple to more complex.

You owe it to yourselves to explore how peoples in areas have survived for hundreds to thousands of years.

If you are going to make it, you really are going to have to learn to think outside the box.

I spit out that American Way of so much in terms of basic survival.
I went to, and looked at how other cultures did it for so long...
And still do it.

Learn or Die. (dramatic some?... yea... but, just saying... in an attempt to make a point).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28477471


Yeah but we're Americans!

And this is the greatest country on Earth.

Are you trying to tell me we aren't the greatest fucking thing that has ever existed and there are better ways to living?

I don't believe a damn word of it.

Sounds like muzzie or communist shit to me!

flag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waver
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27921992
United States
11/25/2012 08:56 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Try farming your own food. That'll wear ya out.
Judethz
Israel is Eternal

User ID: 20521597
United Kingdom
11/25/2012 08:57 PM

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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
OP is living in a fantasy world that doesn't exist. The country has gone hitech as the city. Dairy farms have robitics to milk cows and operate tractors. I have no idea what the OP is nattering on about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25244523


kitty A few weeks go here in the UK a drunken farmhand pulled the power switch to a chicken farm. In about 4 hours 15,000 chickens died.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 957683
United States
11/25/2012 08:57 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Well it seems that there are a lot of knowledgeable people in this thread, so here goes. If living at 6000 feet, would growing indoors with a few 1000 watt hps/ mh lamps during the winter be more efficient than a green house? I can keep the greenhouse stable at 52 degrees in freezing temps but not sure if it would effect yields as much as I think. Any help would be appreciated
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 957683




During the current state of affairs, it probably would. However, during a "bug-out" situation, you have to figure that there will be NO ELECTRICITY, although, like those poor Sandy people, you'll no doubt continue to receive your monthly Bills!

There is a reason why "subsistence farmers" work sunup to sundown (or later!). Whatever you are going to feed yourself and your family for A YEAR (until the next crop is HARVESTED, if it doesn't fail for one reason or another) MUST be produced during the warmer, sunshiny months. If you are living at an altitude of 6000 feet, it would be particularly challenging since the ground is rocky, and winter comes early while spring comes late. While you may be relatively safe from marauding migrant "townies", it is Nature herself who will be your most dangerous enemy.

I would suggest researching growing/gardening/farming websites to glean the best information about WHAT will grow and how best to grow it at your elevation. You may want to consider re-locating, or at least coming to some sort of mutual agreement with someone living lower on the mountainside.
 Quoting: Eggcellent


Great info, the wife and I are moving to Tahoe but we also have an opportunity to move to placerville also, I am currently a self employed farmer. (prop 215) but prefer growing food. My two concerns about growing in elevation is lack of co2 and the cold. You brought up great points, a lot to consider. Thanks.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25919409
Taiwan
11/25/2012 08:58 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Americans will become Canadas Mexicans LOL!Canadian F
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1542865
United States
11/25/2012 08:58 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
This is a very sad thread.

That is because the majority are caught in the mindset of, "American Famrming," i.e., largely people of a European background.

Now.

Let me show you a better way.
That has been used for thousands of years to sustain life.

I'll just give you two things.

One:
Cuy.

Google, YT.

THE most elegant protein source.
They eat GRASS.
Centuries of raising them in homes in Peru, Ecuador.

Take little room. You will be amazed at just how little. Amazed. Eat grass cuttings. Provide high quality... and very delicious... protein source.

Expand your minds. That is what it will take.

Two:
Check out the Vietnamese gardens in East New Orleans, in the Vietnamese enclave.
Check out the various levels/types of gardening that goes on.

Hint: the American way of planting St. Augustine lawns... the ultra-limiting mindset, may well one day kill very many if tshtf... simply because people have been entrained to think in particularly limited and dependent ways.

No being a paid member means I can't post pictures in this thread.
Which really is to the detriment of the entire forum.

Google.
As well, if you can watch the PBS show:
"Vietnamese Cuisine in New Orleans," advise you do so.
This does touch on the gardening practices, from simple to more complex.

You owe it to yourselves to explore how peoples in areas have survived for hundreds to thousands of years.

If you are going to make it, you really are going to have to learn to think outside the box.

I spit out that American Way of so much in terms of basic survival.
I went to, and looked at how other cultures did it for so long...
And still do it.

Learn or Die. (dramatic some?... yea... but, just saying... in an attempt to make a point).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28477471


Yeah but we're Americans!

And this is the greatest country on Earth.

Are you trying to tell me we aren't the greatest fucking thing that has ever existed and there are better ways to living?

I don't believe a damn word of it.

Sounds like muzzie or communist shit to me!

flag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waverflag waver
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27382151


amen bro

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28472918
United States
11/25/2012 08:59 PM
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Re: Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.
Americans will become Canadas Mexicans LOL!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25919409


Canadians and Mexicans are already Americans

need a geography map?

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