Thinking of bugging out to the country? Think again.

Indoors in the winter would be better if you have the room. I would just use straight hps and no mh. Not much will grow at the temp you mentioned other that a few cold weather veggies. Not sure what "crops" you have in mind, but if it is what I think your talking about, indoors until warmer weather would be best.

I have been in the woods 48 years and I don't care what anyone says, we are the kindest most helpful and well mannered people in the world... until you cross us.

If you move to the country... mind your own business if Joe has had a deer hanging in the tree for 3 days don't call Peta... it is a process that some like to do

Crackheads... don't stare at them, talk about them or report them, judges let them out in 24 hours and you're on their mind and they need a fix.

Real slow weird country folks... leave them alone, most of them get crazy checks and wackin you is just a trip to see family and friends.... and they always let them back out...

I don't think they count me as a old timer yet here... but leave the old guys alone... that is all we want anyway, to be left alone

Yah. Because those tropical regions are uninhabited. Everything I said about us hicks not having open hearts for the urban refugee goes a thousand fold for the people who currently inhabit tropical regions. The concept of other is universal. Trying to move out of the country is going to be an even bigger hurdle than dodging lead in the high county domestically...

the greenhouse would keep your root crops in really good condition through those temps.. potatoes, carrots, beets, will maintain their nutrients really well if left at those temps and pulled when needed for a meal.. the cabbage and collard types also would do well, maintaining nutrients until cut to use for a meal.. they won't grow much at those temps but also won't rot if they aren't kept too wet.. The best kind of "cold cellar".

for the rest.. indoor grow lamps would work the best.. but you'd sure need a lot of space and ventilation otherwise you'll have way too much humidity in the house.

Yeah, that's what happened here in Oregon, probably because we are so conveniently located for the Californicators. They will knowingly move next door to a working farm or ranch, and the next thing you know they are trying to get the farmer/rancher put out of business because of smells and flies during the summer. Most of them just seem to "know" what's best for the rest of us, and they waste no time before they invade our local and State governments in their crusade to regulate us into the next San Diego, San Francisco, or Los Angeles. Then they'll start complaining that the State has "lost its' beauty, its' wilderness, and its' friendliness", and move somewhere ELSE to start the process all over again, leaving the rest of us to pick up the pieces and attempt to survive and make a living in the ruins which they created.

Why do so many rural people think people who live in cities are weak and stupid?! You live in a fantasy world. Plus how can 320 million people in the U.S. all live in the 'country'? How? Does the boonies have a viable economy to keep them and the U.S. afloat? Absofuckinglutely not.

And stop with the fear porn and out of control paranoia. It isn't doomsday or some post-apocalyptic place where I live [a big city], not by a long shot. We aren't all dodging bullets, foraging for food .....I mean seriously, WTF? There are obviously a lot of people in this country and elsewhere who haven't been properly socialized growing up and haven't learned to get along comfortably with millions of others of their own species. The thought of living in any place bigger than say 50,000 people scares them.It's ridiculous.



If shit happens, we deal with it just like rural people. And you should realize a lot of the shit you see on the news, TV, movies is bullshit. They HYPE fear and chaos.

Put your money where your mouth is. Come out here and try to survive. You'll be crying for your conditioned cocoon in days.

OK, here is the dirty truth about permaculture: it is based on cultivating land that produces year round with additional land producing mulches and compost. It is a rarefied acreage that can actually implement a full permaculture regime. In the US perhaps parts of Florida are appropriate. Outside that you have to modify the process.

Believe me, if I tried to have 6 layers of food going under my fruit trees here at 43.5 lattitude, I would not get anywhere near the crop I do because the nutrients would be going to other than the trees. Permaculture is a novel goal, but unattainable for most.

FAIL.

Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.

Lets be clear...when the SHTF...you will not walk out to the country and farm....you will not be welcome....

country fold will protect their lands from strangers.


if you are smart and get out now, then you have a chance.

do not think that you will walk out and stake a claim...not gonna happen as the land is already owned.

Yeah, that's what happened here in Oregon, probably because we are so conveniently located for the Californicators. They will knowingly move next door to a working farm or ranch, and the next thing you know they are trying to get the farmer/rancher put out of business because of smells and flies during the summer. Most of them just seem to "know" what's best for the rest of us, and they waste no time before they invade our local and State governments in their crusade to regulate us into the next San Diego, San Francisco, or Los Angeles. Then they'll start complaining that the State has "lost its' beauty, its' wilderness, and its' friendliness", and move somewhere ELSE to start the process all over again, leaving the rest of us to pick up the pieces and attempt to survive and make a living in the ruins which they created.

Truth is, there is no guarantee whatsoever that those living in rural areas will be any more safe and secure than those living in cities and larger towns.

Unless you grew up here to begin with, you just don't have the mindset to truly make it. You have very little concept of how subsidized, pampered and protected your lifestyle is. You can't just pop out for any given need when you inhabit the boonies. Cops and ambulances can take hours to respond. Heat in the form of wood is dirty and dangerous from the point of felling to combustion, especially if you don't grasp the difference between soft and hard woods. Say goodbye to clean clothes, daily chores are not forgiving. Food? Hah! You have no idea how cheap your food is. You will spend more time raising crops and livestock than you ever did pushing pixels, and for not profit, but just to cover a per person 2000Kcal/day diet.

Speaking of which, how are you going to pay taxes and licenses? Your opportunity to earn in the sticks is severely limited, and you will be in competition from natives for what jobs exist; not something you want to bring on yourself. You think you hate immigrants? Flatlanders are not welcomed with open arms, even if you are white as the driven snow.

Why? Because of the attitudes you bring. I own over a 100 acres. However, the town now has a health ordinance making it illegal for me to own more than 20 pigs. This was shoved through by transplants. Now I do not use pigs as an income source, and have never kept more than one breeding pair, but just who do you think you are telling me what I can and can not keep in terms of livestock? It hasn't stopped there. There are now laws limiting the use of outdoor boilers to between October and April, and you can't just have any old boiler, it has to be the most complex one. Bullshit. It can take decades for the locals to trust you if ever, all because of the previous high minded urban refugees.

Life is not easy out here. Unless you are used to hard physical labor for much of the day, you don't stand a chance out here. Some make it. More than that have come and gone within a year or two. The bucolic country side looks mighty appealing from the outside, but unless you are ready for the commitment of your life to provide as much as you can for yourself, and do without, you are in for a rude awakening. Forget about discretionary spending on new fangled gadgets. Your budget will predominately be chewed up by the insatiable appetite of your implements and inputs for plantings and livestock.

Then there is the land. Few have any clue as to how many acres it takes to support livestock and crops. Realistically, the bare minimum to start a self sufficient holding for a family is 10-15 acres per person. Livestock need huge amounts of pasture in the summer and grain for the winter. You will also need a wood lot and crop land.

It is great to carp and dream, but get a clue; bugging out to the country is not all milk and honey. In the end you probably are better off lumping up with the rest of the urbanites in the coming fedghettos.

OP is describing life in ALASKA

Put your money where your mouth is. Come out here and try to survive. You'll be crying for your conditioned cocoon in days.

I understand!!!!!

as a widow at age 23 w/ two kids, orphaned to start with, etc and a dam good builder, auto repair, plumbing, elc, and so on and secretary, this grandma has been through raising my kids in the woods, making an income, baking bread, bagging deer etc, some of the other orphans in the foster care system went to the streets, I went to the woods on my own 50 years ago, there are places even I can not go now. Some are cut off by the gov the rest is cut off by the clam that is cut off by the state, I have no problem with the clan but the state cut off the clan. I am mesianic jew and my doctor is black. The clan does not have a provlem with me or blacks or jews. It is the governments reiking havoc on the world under these demises.

Born right INTO the Depression ... 1928 ! Walked a mile and back to buy a relative of the owner of a small farm next door a pack of Luckies !$.17 meaning the change from a quarter, even a penny could buy a pack of 20 firecrackers, all the way from China, if he chose to 'reward me'.

WHAT has this got to do with the thread ? You must realize that farmer, with milking cows, etc. HAD to work in a town store WITH his wife to make ends meet, even though they had NO CHILDREN ! That Depression IS coming back in SPADES, and this time almost NO ONE in the country has a GOOD sized garden, OR knows anything about planting, harvesting, PRESERVING any left overs. And tools, seeds, etc?

Everyone hunted small and large game for the table, and about 25% had chickens for eggs, baking, etc. NOW those large tracts of land owned by the wealthy city people is all built up. ONLY about 60 acres of old farm land is left, BECAUSE where I live now is where the farms USED to be, and we called them Hicks, if they weren't too big.

Even IF we escape CMES/flares that knock out all electrical lines, gadgets, cars, banks, food delivery; their IS no WWIII, Obammy Care, there will ALWAYS be the parasitic Lawyers, banisters and politicians who produce NOTHING and live OFF of YOUR work/efforts by fines, fees, licenses, through 17,000,000 laws, rules, regulations and statutes, 99% of you have never even heard of either. AND, the currency is/WILL become worthless very soon ! Police state already in position, illegal alien fraud in control and bypassing CONgress with E.O.s !

Have only one working farm and tractor in 12 miles; next city and owned by a distant relative who is worried about dying, and NOTHING that is actually happening !

Enough. Stay in the cities and fight amongst yourselves over food shortages; don't come to the country, as we will fight for our right to live, food and family !

Eagle

If you can survive there anybody can.

Someone with an education would prosper while you boobs barely scratch out a subsistance.

You Retards are happy maintaining and supporting yourself at a minimum level..

Corporate dairy farms are part of why the food supply in this country is failing. Further if you had read, I own a tractor, and much of my operating budget goes into its appetite for hydrocarbons. Even so, much of my work providing for myself requires a strong back and the will to get up each day and sweat.