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NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA

 
JanJan

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02/12/2013 09:11 AM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA

 Quoting: Luisport


Great topic Luisport:)

This should be pinned for further discussion, so...

bumpbumpbumpbump
Luisport (OP)

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02/12/2013 09:19 AM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA

 Quoting: Luisport


Great topic Luisport:)

This should be pinned for further discussion, so...

bumpbumpbumpbump
 Quoting: JanJan


hf Thank's!
Luisport (OP)

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02/12/2013 10:33 AM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
AccuWeather.com ‏@breakingweather

This winter has been called the "snowiest winter in 100 years" for Moscow-- 85"+-- yet Feb so far is 17ºF about normal.
Luisport (OP)

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02/14/2013 08:50 AM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
Luisport (OP)

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02/19/2013 09:22 AM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
Arctic sea ice volume now one-fifth its 1979 level

Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 02:52 AM GMT em 19 de Fevereiro de 2013

The stunning loss of Arctic sea ice extent in recent years is undeniable--satellite measurements have conclusively shown that half of the Arctic sea ice went missing in September 2012, compared to the average September during 1979 - 2000. But the extent of ice cover is not the best measure of how the fire raging in Earth's attic is affecting sea ice--the total volume of the ice is more important. But up until 2010, we didn't have the measurements needed to say how the total volume of ice in the Arctic might be changing. Scientists relied on the University of Washington PIOMAS model, which suggested that the loss of Arctic sea ice volume during September might be approaching 75% - 80%. The model results were widely criticized by climate change skeptics as being unrealistic. However, in April 2010, a new satellite called Cryostat-2 was launched, which can measure ice volume by beaming pulses of microwave energy off of the ice. With two years of data to Cryosat-2 data to analyze, the results of the PIOMAS model have now been confirmed by a study published on-line in February 2013 in Geophysical Research Letters. In a University of Washington news release, co-author Axel Schweiger said, "people had argued that 75 to 80 percent ice volume loss was too aggressive. What this new paper shows is that our ice loss estimates may have been too conservative, and that the recent decline is possibly more rapid." The U.K.'s Natural Environmental Research Council reported that the team of scientists found that from 2003 to 2012, the volume of Arctic sea ice declined 36% in the autumn and 9% in the winter. The measure of sea ice volume is a good indicator of how the Arctic's most stable, "multi-year" ice is fairing. As the multi-year ice declines, sea ice extent, the total area covered by sea ice, in an "Arctic death spiral". The new study shows that thick, multi-year ice has disappeared in areas north of Greenland, around the Canadian Archipelago, and to the northeast of Svalbard, Norway.


Figure 1. Arctic sea ice volume in thousands of cubic kilometers during the September minimum in 1979 compared to 2012, as estimated by the University of Washington PIOMAS model. Arctic seas ice volume has declined by more than a factor of five. Image credit; Andy Lee Robinson.


Figure 2. The Polar-5 aircraft, carrying the EM instrument that was used to validate Cryosat-2 sea ice thickness measurements, flying over the validation site. Image credit: R. Willatt.

Why care about Arctic sea ice loss?
If you remove an area of sea ice 43% the size of the contiguous U.S. from the ocean, like occurred in September 2012, it is guaranteed to have a significant impact on weather and climate. The extra heat and moisture added to the atmosphere as a result of all that open water over the pole may already be altering jet stream patterns in fall and winter, bringing an increase in extreme weather events. The record sea ice loss in 2012 also contributed to an unprecedented melting event in Greenland. Continued sea ice loss will further increase melting from Greenland, contributing to sea level rise and storm surge damages. Sea ice loss will also continue to crank up the thermostat over Arctic permafrost regions. This will potentially release a significant fraction of the vast amounts of carbon currently locked in the permafrost, further accelerating global warming.

Related Posts
Earth's attic is on fire: Arctic sea ice bottoms out at a new record low (September 2012)
Half of the polar ice cap is missing: Arctic sea ice hits a new record low. September 6, 2012 blog post
Wunderground's Sea Ice page
Arctic Death Spiral Bombshell: CryoSat-2 Confirms Sea Ice Volume Has Collapsed by Joe Romm at climateprogress.org.

Jeff Masters and Angela Fritz [link to www.wunderground.com]
Luisport (OP)

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02/19/2013 09:29 AM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
AccuWeather.com‏@breakingweather

Some very low lows Tuesday in Russia: -67ºF in Zelinda, -66ºF in Yaral'in, & -65ºF in Shelagontsy.
Anonymous Coward
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02/19/2013 09:39 AM
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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
The whole 'global warming' thing is about power and control period.
The powers (international banks, specifically the bank for international settlements) love the distraction this causes while they continue to pillage and rape the world.

You people fall for it every time.

We don't have anywhere near the data needed to make any sort of long term prediction about, just about everything.
Anonymous Coward
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02/19/2013 10:38 AM
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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
The whole 'global warming' thing is about power and control period.
The powers (international banks, specifically the bank for international settlements) love the distraction this causes while they continue to pillage and rape the world.

You people fall for it every time.

We don't have anywhere near the data needed to make any sort of long term prediction about, just about everything.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33661162


Well, you do not like the word "global warming" (though it is nothing more than a term for the preliminary, current results of current researches, and scientists are not to blame if it is often used to justify the inflated sensations).
But the fact that something in our eyes change globally - with this you at least agree?
OP is just trying to objectively consider what is and in what direction change (although it is clear that the point in this matter will not set soon, if we do have time at all to see itohyeah)
Anonymous Coward
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02/19/2013 10:40 AM
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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
really very actual thread with serious basis for thought 5* and bump
Luisport (OP)

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02/19/2013 02:42 PM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
really very actual thread with serious basis for thought 5* and bump
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34745844


hf Thank's!
Anonymous Coward
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02/19/2013 02:43 PM
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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
Great post OP. Global warming is a farce
Luisport (OP)

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02/22/2013 09:00 AM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
Ryan Maue‏@RyanMaue

If someone could go measure it, Greenland temps forecast to minus 75°F -- that's about 40°F below normal. [link to twitter.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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02/22/2013 09:35 AM
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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
Ryan Maue‏@RyanMaue

If someone could go measure it, Greenland temps forecast to minus 75°F -- that's about 40°F below normal. [link to twitter.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Luisport


in celcium degrees it's 21 below normal, at the same time yesterday positive anomaly in Mould Bay (north coast of Canada) + 21 degrees tounge
[link to 193.7.160.230]
Luisport (OP)

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02/23/2013 11:25 AM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
Ryan Maue‏@RyanMaue

Different story in France w/record cold right now ( [link to coolwx.com] ) no snowcover, but temps in 20's°F [link to twitter.com (secure)]
whiteangel

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02/23/2013 01:36 PM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
Here is a link well worth reading!
[link to ktwop.wordpress.com]

*snip
The current prediction for Sunspot Cycle 24 gives a smoothed sunspot number maximum of about 69 in the Fall of 2013. The smoothed sunspot number has already reached 67 (in February 2012)due to the strong peak in late 2011 so the official maximum will be at least this high and this late. We are currently over four years into Cycle 24. The current predicted and observed size makes this the smallest sunspot cycle since Cycle 14 which had a maximum of 64.2 in February of 1906.
***************
I would copy the image but doesn't seem to be working for me (computer is acting funky right now) but scroll down and take a look at image SC24 compared to SC5 in 2011 is shown below:
"If voting made a difference they wouldn't let us do it" -Mark Twain
whiteangel

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02/23/2013 02:02 PM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
Here is a link well worth reading!
[link to ktwop.wordpress.com]

*snip
The current prediction for Sunspot Cycle 24 gives a smoothed sunspot number maximum of about 69 in the Fall of 2013. The smoothed sunspot number has already reached 67 (in February 2012)due to the strong peak in late 2011 so the official maximum will be at least this high and this late. We are currently over four years into Cycle 24. The current predicted and observed size makes this the smallest sunspot cycle since Cycle 14 which had a maximum of 64.2 in February of 1906.
***************
I would copy the image but doesn't seem to be working for me (computer is acting funky right now) but scroll down and take a look at image SC24 compared to SC5 in 2011 is shown below:
 Quoting: whiteangel


sc24

 Quoting: shadasonic

"If voting made a difference they wouldn't let us do it" -Mark Twain
randomseb

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02/23/2013 02:07 PM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
What I know about global warming vs ice age is that global warming can CAUSE an ice age, by increasing the air born humidity from evaporated water, causing more snow to fall everywhere, causing more sunlight to be reflected back to space instead of absorbed by the ground, causing winter not to go away. Plus the usual stuff about the great ocean currents breaking down and so on.

There's no denying that everywhere has been hotter in the summer, not just north america, and winters are getting drastic again.
~ Sensing the Spheres
[link to www.youtube.com]


Awakening is where there is No birth, no extinction;
It is seeing into the State of Suchness,
Absolutely transcending All categories constructed by mind.
- Lankavatara Sutra
Luisport (OP)

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02/23/2013 02:34 PM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
Ryan Maue‏@RyanMaue

From tropopause theta map, I see 7 cold anomalies (cyclonic) along the polar front. Very busy or "wavy" [link to twitter.com (secure)]
Luisport (OP)

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02/23/2013 02:34 PM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
Ryan Maue‏@RyanMaue

From tropopause theta map, I see 7 cold anomalies (cyclonic) along the polar front. Very busy or "wavy" [link to twitter.com (secure)]
Luisport (OP)

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02/23/2013 02:46 PM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
Ryan Maue‏@RyanMaue

Currently, a very sharp/strong/impressive cyclonic cut-off is spinning over France leading to record cold. [link to twitter.com (secure)]
Luisport (OP)

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02/24/2013 09:36 AM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
Ryan Maue‏@RyanMaue

Arctic front blasts to 15°N into the Caribbean & Costa Rica, would be "cold" there w/temps 10-20°F below normal [link to twitter.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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02/24/2013 09:57 AM
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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
I do not believe in "Man Made Climate Change" but I do believe in "Climate Change"

I think a lot of people have a lot to gain by blaming humans and CO2.

I do however think there are cycles, we did start warming. I think we did have a period of "Global Warming" the stats show this to be true. Then as the atmosphere warmed, ice melted, the ice that melted ran into the oceans. The oceans have a huge impact on our climate, so with all this added frigid water from the ice melting, it is now causing a cooling effect.
 Quoting: *Evan*


Hmmm....who do I believe, the National Academy of Science, the IPCC, every meteorological and climatological institution in the world, or THIS moron's opinion on melting ice?

another do
Anonymous Coward
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02/24/2013 10:00 AM
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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
But a global warming can indeed trigger a new ace age era...

So I don't get the VS part OP...
Luisport (OP)

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02/24/2013 10:04 AM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
But a global warming can indeed trigger a new ace age era...

So I don't get the VS part OP...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26335144


peace VS is versus... discussion... your preference
Anonymous Coward
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02/24/2013 10:17 AM
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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
Mother nature is a cruel beast and I think no matter what we do to the climate, she will take care of herself. If it gets to warm she will cool herself off. Whether we like it or not
Anonymous Coward
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02/24/2013 10:35 AM
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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
2012 is in the top ten hottest years on record, isn't it? So...

Oh... You know what? You have your agenda to misinform. I just hope that you guys are getting paid for this pretty well. For everyone else, read the actual science for yourselves and stop listening to these people telling you the Earth is flat and that they'll pull out in time. Honest!
Luisport (OP)

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02/24/2013 10:37 AM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
toyama snow [link to www.google.com (secure)]
Luisport (OP)

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02/26/2013 08:56 AM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
Ryan Maue‏@RyanMaue

Could be worse, almost all of Russia (huge chunk of real estate) forecast well-below normal 2nd week of March [link to twitter.com (secure)]

9 hRyan Maue‏@RyanMaue

GFS 00z refuses to warm up during second week of March (from NW Canada down to Florida. Spring please! [link to twitter.com (secure)]

10 hRyan Maue‏@RyanMaue

Effects of snow-cover: -7°C below normal area in last 7-day avg temperature anomaly over prev Plains Blizzard of Oz [link to twitter.com (secure)]
Luisport (OP)

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03/01/2013 06:01 AM

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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
Ryan Maue‏@RyanMaue

February 2013 global temperature anomaly compared to 1981-2010 mean: -0.001°C or 1/1000th of a degree below avg. [link to twitter.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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03/01/2013 06:29 AM
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Re: NEW ICE AGE VERSUS GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION DATA
[link to arstechnica.com]

Understanding extreme weather in an era of climate change
Scientists try to ID climate signals in weather as public draws conclusions.

The US has clearly seen some pretty extreme weather events over the last year. These events have caused both billions of dollars in property damage and endless arguments over how much can be attributed to climate change. Even as scientists work on the problem of attribution, the public has often made up its mind on what's to blame.

To try to bring some sanity to the discussion, the meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science hosted a session on US weather extremes. Although there were a variety of talks, three presentations nicely captured the challenges: one on the state of the US climate, another on a recent climate event, and a third on trying to convey all of this to the public.

Turning up the heat
The first speaker was Donald Wuebbles of the University of Illinois. He started out by saying that you can view the climate as a bell curve, with extreme heat and cold events occurring where it starts to flatten out to the left and right. In that view, changing the climate could do any of three things. The curve itself could shift, with hot events becoming more common and cold events becoming less frequent. You could also potentially flatten the curve, with the typical climate remaining roughly the same but the instances of extreme events increased. Or, he said, you could do both.
Depending on which aspect of the climate system you're looking at, you may get any one of these options....

Heubbles also mentioned a variety of events that have been specifically attributed to climate change, including the recent drought in Texas, which analysts have suggested was made anywhere between two and twenty times more likely by climate change. This fact served as a great bridge to the next speaker, John Nielsen-Gammon, a Texas state climatologist.

Running hot
Record high temperatures are becoming much more common, even as record lows are decreasing in frequency.
[link to www.c2es.org]
...
"Saying the drought was due to climate change is like saying the airplane crashed due to gravity," Nielsen-Gammon said.

<i would like add : same for cold:tounge:>

It's true, but it doesn't tell you much. So, his team used climate models to try to understand the causes of the drought...

Managing complexity
If Nielsen-Gammon's job was complicated by the mix of natural variation and climate-driven events, then Andrew Freedman has an even greater challenge: accurately conveying it to the public...

To try to get accurate information to the public, Climate Central is working with TV meteorologists, who already reach the public but don't always have the tools to handle the complexities well. And the emphasis is on getting them to ask better questions—instead of "did global warming cause this?", they should focus on questions that are more relevant and can be answered, like "how did it [climate change] influence the odds for or severity of this event?"...


<seems like Joe Bastardi too stubborn to understand such thingstounge>


...This certainly won't guarantee that we'll end up with a public that can easily grasp the complexities of climate. But it could help them to start recognizing that the complexities exist.

News