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Logic Behind the Existence of Shills

 
Anonymous Coward
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11/26/2012 07:03 PM
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Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
I was playing a strategy video game and noticed that one of the technologies one could research gave your "government" the ability to hire spies to infiltrate outlets critical of your regime and silence criticism of the government giving the appearance of a widely accepted and supported government.

I'm quite sure that the creators of this game do not have access to any "inside" information and they're probably not conspiracy theorists. I think it was just a logical conclusion for them to include such a technology in their game. To them I suppose it is only obvious that governments around the world would use such techniques to prop themselves up.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/26/2012 07:17 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
Honestly I think the influx of racist comments on GLP is likely an attempt by such "infiltrators" to discredit conspiracy theorists. An attempt to make them look like nothing more than a bunch of racist kooks.
Bluebird

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11/26/2012 07:22 PM

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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
What do you suppose the ones advocating socialism and Obamacare and Obama Phones are up to?
One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one.

Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway.

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy
ArmchairObserver

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11/26/2012 07:24 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
As a former moderator at a heavily frequented forum for a well known author, I can assure you that shills do, in fact, exist. We had one on the author's forum who used a proxy for a long time and involved himself in political discussions. One of the forum administrators noted the proxy usage and watched him. The guy slipped up one time and the ip was Langley. Another individual posted on this same author's forum and was paid to do so by a wealthy European. He got out of line one time and his employer messaged us to apologize for his behavior, expressing that his employee was young and foolish at times.

So yeah, they do exist. I find, however, that most of the time the people on this forum call each other shills for having a difference of opinion when most aren't.
AO
Anonymous Coward
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11/26/2012 07:25 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
I was playing a strategy video game and noticed that one of the technologies one could research gave your "government" the ability to hire spies to infiltrate outlets critical of your regime and silence criticism of the government giving the appearance of a widely accepted and supported government.

I'm quite sure that the creators of this game do not have access to any "inside" information and they're probably not conspiracy theorists. I think it was just a logical conclusion for them to include such a technology in their game. To them I suppose it is only obvious that governments around the world would use such techniques to prop themselves up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


It just means the creators of the game are aware of human history. All throughout our history every king/queen has used the same tactic. They sent out their own loyal servants into the markets to spread loyalty toward the king/queen and to figure out who would oppose and for what. Then the opposition would quietly disappear in the middle of the night or found dead in a forest attacked by the wolves. It worked back and it still works now.

rex
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11/26/2012 07:30 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
As a former moderator at a heavily frequented forum for a well known author, I can assure you that shills do, in fact, exist. We had one on the author's forum who used a proxy for a long time and involved himself in political discussions. One of the forum administrators noted the proxy usage and watched him. The guy slipped up one time and the ip was Langley. Another individual posted on this same author's forum and was paid to do so by a wealthy European. He got out of line one time and his employer messaged us to apologize for his behavior, expressing that his employee was young and foolish at times.

So yeah, they do exist. I find, however, that most of the time the people on this forum call each other shills for having a difference of opinion when most aren't.
 Quoting: ArmchairObserver


They do come in all forms, not just from the government. Forums present a lucrative advertising medium. Companies have found that the absolute best form of advertisement is word of mouth. People are more likely to trust someone that's not a paid actor so paying people to come to a variety of forums posing as just another poster and crediting a particular product, product type or reason to buy such product lines drives quite a bit of sales.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/26/2012 07:32 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
They do come in all forms, not just from the government. Forums present a lucrative advertising medium. Companies have found that the absolute best form of advertisement is word of mouth. People are more likely to trust someone that's not a paid actor so paying people to come to a variety of forums posing as just another poster and crediting a particular product, product type or reason to buy such product lines drives quite a bit of sales.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


It works in numerous ways though. You might find someone paid by Apple to go to forums bashing Windows 8 or someone paid by a gun salesman to stoke paranoia in regards to gun legislation and drive gun sales up.
Anonymous Coward
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11/26/2012 07:48 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
They do come in all forms, not just from the government. Forums present a lucrative advertising medium. Companies have found that the absolute best form of advertisement is word of mouth. People are more likely to trust someone that's not a paid actor so paying people to come to a variety of forums posing as just another poster and crediting a particular product, product type or reason to buy such product lines drives quite a bit of sales.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


It works in numerous ways though. You might find someone paid by Apple to go to forums bashing Windows 8 or someone paid by a gun salesman to stoke paranoia in regards to gun legislation and drive gun sales up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


putin
Anonymous Coward
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11/26/2012 07:52 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
do you need to mold someones perception?
do you need to tip the scales in your favor?

then you need "SHILLS R US"
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/26/2012 07:57 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
do you need to mold someones perception?
do you need to tip the scales in your favor?

then you need "SHILLS R US"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28485923


Heh. It's not like the knowledge of molding perception isn't all around us. Want to make your product look more tempting? Put a pretty girl next to it. Want to give the impression your product improves lifestyles? Put smiling people next to it. Want to discredit the other guy? Put his product in black and white and make sure to depict frustrated people using it.

Sure it doesn't work on everybody, but it doesn't need to as long as it works a percentage of the time it's profitable to manipulate.
ArmchairObserver

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11/26/2012 08:32 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
do you need to mold someones perception?
do you need to tip the scales in your favor?

then you need "SHILLS R US"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28485923


Heh. It's not like the knowledge of molding perception isn't all around us. Want to make your product look more tempting? Put a pretty girl next to it. Want to give the impression your product improves lifestyles? Put smiling people next to it. Want to discredit the other guy? Put his product in black and white and make sure to depict frustrated people using it.

Sure it doesn't work on everybody, but it doesn't need to as long as it works a percentage of the time it's profitable to manipulate.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


Yep.
AO
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/26/2012 08:53 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
Heh. It's not like the knowledge of molding perception isn't all around us. Want to make your product look more tempting? Put a pretty girl next to it. Want to give the impression your product improves lifestyles? Put smiling people next to it. Want to discredit the other guy? Put his product in black and white and make sure to depict frustrated people using it.

Sure it doesn't work on everybody, but it doesn't need to as long as it works a percentage of the time it's profitable to manipulate.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


Yep.
 Quoting: ArmchairObserver


Personally I find the practice stomach churning. It is an abomination, an abomination of the truth. Is it a wonder why so many people are screwed in the head when no one can make an honest and informed decision about anything in their life? One cannot make an honest political choice because they don't know the truth about either candidate. One cannot even make an informed decision about the type of toothpaste that best suits them because all toothpaste outlets are spewing lies and manipulative information in a bid to increase sales.

Can't even decide which computer best suits you because they're all trying to sell ya the most expensive hardware when all ya need to do is read email. You can't even trust your own friends, not because they're lying to you on purpose, but because their opinions are all based on the same BS shillery yours are.
Stanfiem

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11/26/2012 09:00 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
A paid shill is easy to spot. The ones you need to worry about are those that do it for the thrill of the hunt. A shill is not really a shill if he sets his own agenda. Some secrets are just too big to trust your cronies with.

Last Edited by Stanfiem on 11/26/2012 09:01 PM
Stanfiem
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/26/2012 09:04 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
A paid shill is easy to spot. The ones you need to worry about are those that do it for the thrill of the hunt. A shill is not really a shill if he sets his own agenda. Some secrets are just too big to trust your cronies with.
 Quoting: Stanfiem


I'm sure most cronies aren't told what truth they're covering up. They're told what to do, not why. Hell when I worked for a corporation no one ever told you why, just what to do.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/26/2012 09:20 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
I'm sure most cronies aren't told what truth they're covering up. They're told what to do, not why. Hell when I worked for a corporation no one ever told you why, just what to do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


"It's nothing personal, it's just business." Those exact words were once uttered to my mother by a director when she was laid off.
Stanfiem

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11/26/2012 09:25 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
A paid shill is easy to spot. The ones you need to worry about are those that do it for the thrill of the hunt. A shill is not really a shill if he sets his own agenda. Some secrets are just too big to trust your cronies with.
 Quoting: Stanfiem


I'm sure most cronies aren't told what truth they're covering up. They're told what to do, not why. Hell when I worked for a corporation no one ever told you why, just what to do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417

You are thinking more along the lines of a paid shill. I would imagine certain things that must get covered up would be too sensitive for certain minds. The human mind in inquisitive and one would ask questions if he is to cover up topics about aliens and other more sensitive topics Granted these are most likely very specific topics which have a direct link to the center.

Think bigger than 9/11 or any other shill related topic that gets spewed here. These are the guys that have a very specific role; They may even be The actual movers and shakers behind the curtain. Who really knows, but the persons themselves.

My first thought is why would these people spend time on the internet. If they run the world why bother. Well maybe they enjoy watching the fruits of their labor, and while stopping in to laugh at all the simpletons argue over their manufactured hysteria they sit back laughing...the thrill of the hunt.

Is it time to bring my tomato plants in yet? chuckle

Last Edited by Stanfiem on 11/26/2012 09:26 PM
Stanfiem
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11/26/2012 09:32 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
You are thinking more along the lines of a paid shill. I would imagine certain things that must get covered up would be too sensitive for certain minds. The human mind in inquisitive and one would ask questions if he is to cover up topics about aliens and other more sensitive topics Granted these are most likely very specific topics which have a direct link to the center.

Think bigger than 9/11 or any other shill related topic that gets spewed here. These are the guys that have a very specific role; They may even be The actual movers and shakers behind the curtain. Who really knows, but the persons themselves.

My first thought is why would these people spend time on the internet. If they run the world why bother. Well maybe they enjoy watching the fruits of their labor, and while stopping in to laugh at all the simpletons argue over their manufactured hysteria they sit back laughing...the thrill of the hunt.

Is it time to bring my tomato plants in yet? chuckle
 Quoting: Stanfiem


Technically I was a paid shill, but not in the capacity that you might be referring. I was an IT technician for several companies and I was made to lie to our own employees on numerous occasions. For what purpose I couldn't say.

As far as the operation of the world is concerned no one really knows the truth behind anything. Anyone that has inside knowledge behind 9/11 doesn't have inside knowledge about Benghazi. Everyone is lied to about one thing or another, even the "top" players. They lie to their employees and they lie to each other. Everyone is in the dark.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/26/2012 09:37 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
Technically I was a paid shill, but not in the capacity that you might be referring. I was an IT technician for several companies and I was made to lie to our own employees on numerous occasions. For what purpose I couldn't say.

As far as the operation of the world is concerned no one really knows the truth behind anything. Anyone that has inside knowledge behind 9/11 doesn't have inside knowledge about Benghazi. Everyone is lied to about one thing or another, even the "top" players. They lie to their employees and they lie to each other. Everyone is in the dark.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


You see employees are lied to quite often, we all know that, but not everybody knows that employers are often lied to as well. Employees lie to their employers for various reasons, usually to cover something up that might cost them their jobs. They might also lie to their employer to cover up money laundering, theft of office supplies or even being a shill working for another company trying to get the inside scoop on the competition.
Burt Gummer

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11/26/2012 09:45 PM

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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
I was playing a strategy video game and noticed that one of the technologies one could research gave your "government" the ability to hire spies to infiltrate outlets critical of your regime and silence criticism of the government giving the appearance of a widely accepted and supported government.

I'm quite sure that the creators of this game do not have access to any "inside" information and they're probably not conspiracy theorists. I think it was just a logical conclusion for them to include such a technology in their game. To them I suppose it is only obvious that governments around the world would use such techniques to prop themselves up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


...and now you know why the SHILLY LEFTY NEWS organizations do what they do.


msnst corpnws
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11/26/2012 09:56 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
...and now you know why the SHILLY LEFTY NEWS organizations do what they do.
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


The shilly right news does it too, pretty much everybody does in at least some capacity. Someone mentioned earlier that some people denounce others as shills simply for having a differing opinion and technically that would be a tactic you'd find a paid shill using.

So really most people use shill-like tactics and don't even realize it.
Stanfiem

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11/26/2012 09:56 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
Technically I was a paid shill, but not in the capacity that you might be referring. I was an IT technician for several companies and I was made to lie to our own employees on numerous occasions. For what purpose I couldn't say.

As far as the operation of the world is concerned no one really knows the truth behind anything. Anyone that has inside knowledge behind 9/11 doesn't have inside knowledge about Benghazi. Everyone is lied to about one thing or another, even the "top" players. They lie to their employees and they lie to each other. Everyone is in the dark.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


You see employees are lied to quite often, we all know that, but not everybody knows that employers are often lied to as well. Employees lie to their employers for various reasons, usually to cover something up that might cost them their jobs. They might also lie to their employer to cover up money laundering, theft of office supplies or even being a shill working for another company trying to get the inside scoop on the competition.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417

But someone is lying to the employers right? That is who I am referring to. What I am saying is certain people DO know what is really happening. They are the ones that hire the 9/11 shills and have the CIA FBI and every other *** organization in their pocket. They set the world stage. They are being lied to but it is Who, or what is lying to them that they must hide among other things, at least until it is time to roll it out to the public.

Ever heard of snipe hunting? It is a prank from my boyscout days that we would play. You tell younger people of a wild exotic bird that you hunt. Then you send them off in the woods to look for this bird. All the while knowing they will never find it, because you made it up. everything that is allowed to be discussed is a snipe. The only difference is they invent the snipe both mentally and physically. See 9/11 (I only use this because it is the most obvious)
Stanfiem
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11/26/2012 09:58 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
So really most people use shill-like tactics and don't even realize it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


I've done this before myself by the way. I eventually realized what I was doing and do my best to avoid using such tactics.
ArmchairObserver

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11/26/2012 09:58 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
You are thinking more along the lines of a paid shill. I would imagine certain things that must get covered up would be too sensitive for certain minds. The human mind in inquisitive and one would ask questions if he is to cover up topics about aliens and other more sensitive topics Granted these are most likely very specific topics which have a direct link to the center.

Think bigger than 9/11 or any other shill related topic that gets spewed here. These are the guys that have a very specific role; They may even be The actual movers and shakers behind the curtain. Who really knows, but the persons themselves.

My first thought is why would these people spend time on the internet. If they run the world why bother. Well maybe they enjoy watching the fruits of their labor, and while stopping in to laugh at all the simpletons argue over their manufactured hysteria they sit back laughing...the thrill of the hunt.

Is it time to bring my tomato plants in yet? chuckle
 Quoting: Stanfiem


Technically I was a paid shill, but not in the capacity that you might be referring. I was an IT technician for several companies and I was made to lie to our own employees on numerous occasions. For what purpose I couldn't say.

As far as the operation of the world is concerned no one really knows the truth behind anything. Anyone that has inside knowledge behind 9/11 doesn't have inside knowledge about Benghazi. Everyone is lied to about one thing or another, even the "top" players. They lie to their employees and they lie to each other. Everyone is in the dark.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


Absolutely and there's always the hazard of buying one's own line. Tell a lie often enough, you can forget that it was a lie in the first place.
AO
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/26/2012 10:03 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
But someone is lying to the employers right? That is who I am referring to. What I am saying is certain people DO know what is really happening. They are the ones that hire the 9/11 shills and have the CIA FBI and every other *** organization in their pocket. They set the world stage. They are being lied to but it is Who, or what is lying to them that they must hide among other things, at least until it is time to roll it out to the public.

Ever heard of snipe hunting? It is a prank from my boyscout days that we would play. You tell younger people of a wild exotic bird that you hunt. Then you send them off in the woods to look for this bird. All the while knowing they will never find it, because you made it up. everything that is allowed to be discussed is a snipe. The only difference is they invent the snipe both mentally and physically. See 9/11 (I only use this because it is the most obvious)
 Quoting: Stanfiem


I see where you're coming from, but I disagree to an extent. While I'm sure there are those that are more knowledgeable about 9/11 than I those same people are not necessarily more knowledgeable about all the goings on in the world. People that worked on the 9/11 issue did not work on the Russian leaking nuclear sub issue. People that worked on the JFK assassination did not work on the Jim James project.

People that work on one project are kept in the dark about another. The right hand never knows what the left hand is doing, neither does the left hand know of the right.

You might think "well how could such a thing work?" That's just the thing... It doesn't work, that's why the world is such a shit hole. The blind leading the blind.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/26/2012 10:06 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
Absolutely and there's always the hazard of buying one's own line. Tell a lie often enough, you can forget that it was a lie in the first place.
 Quoting: ArmchairObserver


Ever heard of the pathological liar? Many can fool lie detector machines because they actually believe their own lies.

The brain works in such a fashion that the more you do something the stronger the connection controlling the action becomes in the brain. If you find yourself lying all the time eventually the connection within the creative mind becomes so strong that it's the first course of action. You end up not only lying to others, but lying to yourself because you've crossed your own wires.
Stanfiem

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11/26/2012 10:19 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
But someone is lying to the employers right? That is who I am referring to. What I am saying is certain people DO know what is really happening. They are the ones that hire the 9/11 shills and have the CIA FBI and every other *** organization in their pocket. They set the world stage. They are being lied to but it is Who, or what is lying to them that they must hide among other things, at least until it is time to roll it out to the public.

Ever heard of snipe hunting? It is a prank from my boyscout days that we would play. You tell younger people of a wild exotic bird that you hunt. Then you send them off in the woods to look for this bird. All the while knowing they will never find it, because you made it up. everything that is allowed to be discussed is a snipe. The only difference is they invent the snipe both mentally and physically. See 9/11 (I only use this because it is the most obvious)
 Quoting: Stanfiem


I see where you're coming from, but I disagree to an extent. While I'm sure there are those that are more knowledgeable about 9/11 than I those same people are not necessarily more knowledgeable about all the goings on in the world. People that worked on the 9/11 issue did not work on the Russian leaking nuclear sub issue. People that worked on the JFK assassination did not work on the Jim James project.

People that work on one project are kept in the dark about another. The right hand never knows what the left hand is doing, neither does the left hand know of the right.

You might think "well how could such a thing work?" That's just the thing... It doesn't work, that's why the world is such a shit hole. The blind leading the blind.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417

Every hand has a body. and every body a mind and every mind a will. Is all I am saying.

I would agree with you though I just am taking it one step further, that is all.

If order is derived from chaos I would suspect that it would require a consciousness to do so right?. Where that consciousness lies there lies the problem. Humans, aliens, clones, star children; Your guess is as good as mine.It may even be better.

To be honest trying to figure it out is driving me insane. but that is the point, I think.
cheers

Last Edited by Stanfiem on 11/26/2012 10:21 PM
Stanfiem
Burt Gummer

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11/26/2012 10:23 PM

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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
...and now you know why the SHILLY LEFTY NEWS organizations do what they do.
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


The shilly right news does it too, pretty much everybody does in at least some capacity. Someone mentioned earlier that some people denounce others as shills simply for having a differing opinion and technically that would be a tactic you'd find a paid shill using.

So really most people use shill-like tactics and don't even realize it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


The RIGHT (as in Conservatives) do nothing of the sort. naughty

If you think they do....you have been indoctrinated by the LEFTIES to believe they do.
LIES, SPIN, MISDIRECTION, TRICKERY are tools of evil...and the LEFTY movement ONLY.

Wake up! thwak

Last Edited by Useless Cookie Eater on 11/26/2012 10:27 PM
Stanfiem

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11/26/2012 10:30 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
...and now you know why the SHILLY LEFTY NEWS organizations do what they do.
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


The shilly right news does it too, pretty much everybody does in at least some capacity. Someone mentioned earlier that some people denounce others as shills simply for having a differing opinion and technically that would be a tactic you'd find a paid shill using.

So really most people use shill-like tactics and don't even realize it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


The RIGHT (as in Conservatives) do nothing of the sort. naughty

If you think they do....you have been indoctrinated by the LEFTIES to believe they do.
LIES, SPIN, MISDIRECTION, TRICKERY are tools of evil...and the LEFTY movement ONLY.

Wake up! thwak
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


The irony of the song ironic is that nothing in it is a good description of irony. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
Stanfiem
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11/26/2012 10:32 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
Every hand has a body. and every bod a mind and every mind a will. Is all I am saying.

I would agree with you though I just am taking it one step further, that is all.

If order is derived from chaos I would suspect that it would require a consciousness to do so right?. Where that consciousness lies there lies the problem. Humans, aliens, clones, star children; Your guess is as good as mine.It may even be better.

To be honest trying to figure it out is driving me insane. but that is the point, I think.
cheers
 Quoting: Stanfiem


Places like GLP are great for the exchange of differing opinions.

Personally I think there is a body, but currently the brain controlling that body has gone completely insane. It's not the wealthy elite or a foreign alien intelligence, but the collective consciousness of humanity.

I'm not getting all cult-like spiritual on this one. What I mean is that my actions effect yours and yours effect mine even if we've never met. My actions affect those around me and they affect those around them and around them and around them until ultimately everyone has felt the effect of my actions.

For instance, lets say you try to disconnect yourself, which is impossible. Lets say you live in a cabin with no human contact. You still have contact with nature to which we all have contact with. You might unintentionally kick a small rock down a hill scaring a deer which proceeds to run into the street without looking, causing a car to swerve into incoming traffic resulting in a 6 car pile up. 4 people died creating 4 funerals with a combined visitorship of 250 people all taking time off of work creating extra work load for their co-workers, 438 of which had to stay late to finish the workload. On their way home each of them caused a combined additional 1,000 cars to wait 10 extra seconds at a street light they otherwise would have waited 10 seconds less for. Rather than continue until I reach every human in existence from now to infinity lets just say that 10 second difference changed everything they will ever do their entire lives by AT LEAST 10 seconds which in turn effects everyone around them and so on...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/26/2012 10:34 PM
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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
The RIGHT (as in Conservatives) do nothing of the sort. naughty

If you think they do....you have been indoctrinated by the LEFTIES to believe they do.
LIES, SPIN, MISDIRECTION, TRICKERY are tools of evil...and the LEFTY movement ONLY.

Wake up! thwak
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


The irony of the song ironic is that nothing in it is a good description of irony. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
 Quoting: Stanfiem


:)

For the record I am neither left or right.
Burt Gummer

User ID: 7702124
United States
11/26/2012 10:35 PM

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Re: Logic Behind the Existence of Shills
The RIGHT (as in Conservatives) do nothing of the sort. naughty

If you think they do....you have been indoctrinated by the LEFTIES to believe they do.
LIES, SPIN, MISDIRECTION, TRICKERY are tools of evil...and the LEFTY movement ONLY.

Wake up! thwak
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


The irony of the song ironic is that nothing in it is a good description of irony. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
 Quoting: Stanfiem


:)

For the record I am neither left or right.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


Impossible.
That would mean you are someone living on Mars or Saturn and not in the USA.
Everyone has a position based on their thoughts and values.

Care to try again and get back to reality this time? rolleyes

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