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Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'

 
peckerhead

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11/26/2012 10:18 PM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
Right.

A 64 yr old man is ambushed by two young and strong teenagers who are trying to steal all his shit..but he used excessive force.

What a bunch of bullshit.

I guess Corky shouldn't have laughed at him.

On the bright side, the old man is nearing the end of his life anyway, he wont be in prison for very long if he goes plus he took out a couple of lowlife scums, saved someone else the trouble.
 Quoting: Debauchery


This happened not far from me. I'm very pro 2A and am in no way defending the actions of the kids. The guy admitted to shooting each kid, a few minutes apart, as soon as their hips came into view while descending his basement stairs. He then administering the coup de gras after they fell the rest of the way down the stairs. The killing of the girl was pretty brutal. She apparently laughed at him when his rifle jammed, which pissed him off, so he drew a revolver and shot her in the chest multiple times. When she still didn't die, he stuck the barrel under her chin and shot her again. He's admitted to investigators that he wanted both of them dead, and apparently didn't fess up to killing them until the cops were onto him and wanted to search his house.

He's going away forever, no question about it.
Anonymous Coward
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11/26/2012 10:36 PM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
HOW CAN THEY SAY HE OVERREACTED???

How would he know one wont whip out a pistol and shoot him in the blink of an eye, FFS?
Anonymous Coward
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11/26/2012 10:43 PM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
Do the crime, do the time. Sounds like this guy is a bit off. But how many of these armed to the teeth "off" individuals are there? Not safe being a criminal I guess.
Anonymous Coward
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11/26/2012 10:44 PM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
Cops empty guns into people all the time with no concern for 'overkill'. And under far more questionable circumstances.

If the death rate for burglary was 100%, I doubt most burglars would stay in that line of work.
Debauchery

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11/26/2012 10:53 PM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
Right.

A 64 yr old man is ambushed by two young and strong teenagers who are trying to steal all his shit..but he used excessive force.

What a bunch of bullshit.

I guess Corky shouldn't have laughed at him.

On the bright side, the old man is nearing the end of his life anyway, he wont be in prison for very long if he goes plus he took out a couple of lowlife scums, saved someone else the trouble.
 Quoting: Debauchery


This happened not far from me. I'm very pro 2A and am in no way defending the actions of the kids. The guy admitted to shooting each kid, a few minutes apart, as soon as their hips came into view while descending his basement stairs. He then administering the coup de gras after they fell the rest of the way down the stairs. The killing of the girl was pretty brutal. She apparently laughed at him when his rifle jammed, which pissed him off, so he drew a revolver and shot her in the chest multiple times. When she still didn't die, he stuck the barrel under her chin and shot her again. He's admitted to investigators that he wanted both of them dead, and apparently didn't fess up to killing them until the cops were onto him and wanted to search his house.

He's going away forever, no question about it.
 Quoting: peckerhead


I think they got what they deserved.

The old man is probably fed up with shit in general, add on to that kids that think they're entitled to stroll into someones home, violate a persons space and take their possessions and I'm sure it was the straw that broke the camels back..in addition to the criminal laughing in his face.

People that do shit like that and then laugh about it, well they deserve no sympathy. If they'd had a weapon..what do you think would have happened?

No more sympathy. Shit like this is becoming common, 17-18 yr olds doing whatever they want and expecting no consequences, thinking that you can bully people around and get away with it. Nah..it's time more people started shooting to kill when someone breaks in, if you don't finish the job the first few times please do get closer and put the barrel right up to their face. In this day and age you have to be aware that people aren't going to take your shit anymore. If you come into my house to rob me I'm going empty my weapon and reload if need be. I'm going to make sure you are dead. I don't care if you are defenseless, I don't care how old you are. The second you enter without an invitation you become a threat to my life.

I like the commentary from friends and family. "She was always happy, she had a way that made everyone happy". I bet..except the sorry bastard whose home she was robbing.
She was an addict as well.
And the LORD spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it." Amen.
Anonymous Coward
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11/26/2012 11:44 PM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
Sure it's sad what happened to those kids, but if you break into someones home be prepared to die. How would he know they didn't have guns?
 Quoting: sp26 18366868


It actually doesn't matter if they had weapons or not. Simply having two or more attackers is considered deadly force in most states.

Even that didn't matter. He feared for his life, so fought as best he could. It sounds like a scramble.

He should have reported it instantly, but even then, he might have feared that he'd be seen as guilty, so panicked.
Anonymous Coward
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11/27/2012 12:04 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
That's the way the cops do it. They keep shooting until the victim is dead.
G. House

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11/27/2012 12:14 AM

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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
Friends and family have expressed their outrage over the deaths of two popular students shot by a homeowner while they robbed his home - as he revealed he fired 'more shots than he needed to'.

The bodies of cousins Haile Kifer, 18, and Nicholas Brady Schaeffel, 17, were found in Byron Smith's basement in Little Falls, Minnesota on Friday - the day after they were shot dead on Thanksgiving.

When police arrived at his home after reports of suspicious activity, Smith, 64, confessed to shooting the teenagers repeatedly and stashing their bodies after they broke into his home, authorities said.

On Monday, he was charged with second-degree murder and police revealed he told them he fired more shots than necessary after his gun jammed and Kifer laughed at him.

While Minnesota law stipulates people are allowed to use deadly force when defending their homes, relatives, friends, police and prosecutors claimed Smith reacted too drastically by killing them.

'A person has every right to defend themselves and their homes, even employing deadly force if necessary,' Morrison County Sheriff Michel Wetzel said. 'Circumstances of this case however, led deputies to believe that Smith went beyond that point.'


[link to www.dailymail.co.uk]
 Quoting: ET*Dude


Seems to me they got what they asked for.

There is no justification of robbing peoples homes.

Especially on the holidays.
"Everybody lies."
Anonymous Coward
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11/27/2012 12:24 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
Hard way to learn one of life's basic principals.
Generation Doom

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11/27/2012 12:36 AM

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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
He tried to shoot her again with his rifle, but the gun jammed and Kifer laughed at him, the complaint noted.


wtf She got shot, fell down the stairs, and laughed at him? This is either a lie or this girl was not right in the head... The article tries to gain sympathy for the teenagers, repeatedly mentioning how he didn't need to kill them, "beyond self defense", talking about how great they were as people, but completely overlook the fact that they broke into this man's house with intent to steal from him or hurt him. People see what they want to see I guess. These two were no angels.
Anonymous Coward
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11/27/2012 12:38 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
The old man had his home robbed 8 times. He probably felt traumatized by it. He probably shot them thinking they were armed. A lot of comments stated that he could have wounded them and called the cops, but if he thought they were armed, it could have been suicidal for him to do that.
Some of the stuff stated in the article doesn't make sense.
Ralph--a house dog

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11/27/2012 12:40 AM

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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
Getting shot is a occupational hazard of being a burglar.

As far as overkill goes, if the burglar is still moving and trying to get up then they are still a threat and you need to keep shooting to eliminate the threat.

What else would you do? Stop firing and wait for them to pull out a gun and shoot you or throw a knife at you? Run away and get caught by their accomplice outside?

Unfortunately, one must assume that anyone breaking into their home means them harm. Failure to effectively counter that intent is suicidal. It is not nice, it is not kind and is very unpleasant to contemplate but the intruder is the one who made the choice. Deal with it or suffer the consequences.
"Who decides?"
---Robert A. Heinlein

[link to www.westcoasttruth.com]

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Anonymous Coward
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11/27/2012 12:56 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
The old man had his home robbed 8 times. He probably felt traumatized by it. He probably shot them thinking they were armed. A lot of comments stated that he could have wounded them and called the cops, but if he thought they were armed, it could have been suicidal for him to do that.
Some of the stuff stated in the article doesn't make sense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12582603


The story still sounds flaky.....

Seems the article is trying to make the burglars look good and the old guy a nutjob....

In a self defense shoot you fire until the threat is neutralized....not wound or shot once and see if the attacker is hit....you shoot until the attacker no longer poses a threat....
rickky

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11/27/2012 01:00 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
So if he would have used a 12 gauge or 45 he would have been ok, Moral of the story, don't use a 22 for home defense.

Edit: I just found out he used a mini-14 then use the 22.

People are just getting tired of being robbed all the time.

Last Edited by rickky on 11/27/2012 01:10 AM
Anonymous Coward
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11/27/2012 01:23 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
It is all over the local news and the old man is screwed.

The "Castle Law" is ambiguous on purpose. It states you can use deadly but reasonable force to save your life.

Reasonable force is in the eye of the beholder.

I remember a incident during the Iraq war that was similar to a point. Men were in a Mosque shooting at Marines,a explosion took out the room they were in. A Marine and camera man went into the room and the Marine said"this one is still alive"he then shot the man several times in the back and said"Now he's not". This all got filmed and the general public was shocked by the murder of the injured man. The Marine went to a Courts Martial but was found not guilty because the mans hand was under his body and it could have had a weapon in it.

It will be found that a reasonable man would not have shot the girl in the head after she was shot several times in the chest.

Never talk to cops,only talk to your lawyer. Anything you say can and will be used against you.

I also believe the whole story is not out. The old man claims that the bay came down the stairs and he shot him. He stated that the girl came down stairs after the shooting. BS.
peckerhead

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11/27/2012 01:51 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
Right.

A 64 yr old man is ambushed by two young and strong teenagers who are trying to steal all his shit..but he used excessive force.

What a bunch of bullshit.

I guess Corky shouldn't have laughed at him.

On the bright side, the old man is nearing the end of his life anyway, he wont be in prison for very long if he goes plus he took out a couple of lowlife scums, saved someone else the trouble.
 Quoting: Debauchery


This happened not far from me. I'm very pro 2A and am in no way defending the actions of the kids. The guy admitted to shooting each kid, a few minutes apart, as soon as their hips came into view while descending his basement stairs. He then administering the coup de gras after they fell the rest of the way down the stairs. The killing of the girl was pretty brutal. She apparently laughed at him when his rifle jammed, which pissed him off, so he drew a revolver and shot her in the chest multiple times. When she still didn't die, he stuck the barrel under her chin and shot her again. He's admitted to investigators that he wanted both of them dead, and apparently didn't fess up to killing them until the cops were onto him and wanted to search his house.

He's going away forever, no question about it.
 Quoting: peckerhead



I think they got what they deserved.

The old man is probably fed up with shit in general, add on to that kids that think they're entitled to stroll into someones home, violate a persons space and take their possessions and I'm sure it was the straw that broke the camels back..in addition to the criminal laughing in his face.

People that do shit like that and then laugh about it, well they deserve no sympathy. If they'd had a weapon..what do you think would have happened?

No more sympathy. Shit like this is becoming common, 17-18 yr olds doing whatever they want and expecting no consequences, thinking that you can bully people around and get away with it. Nah..it's time more people started shooting to kill when someone breaks in, if you don't finish the job the first few times please do get closer and put the barrel right up to their face. In this day and age you have to be aware that people aren't going to take your shit anymore. If you come into my house to rob me I'm going empty my weapon and reload if need be. I'm going to make sure you are dead. I don't care if you are defenseless, I don't care how old you are. The second you enter without an invitation you become a threat to my life.

I like the commentary from friends and family. "She was always happy, she had a way that made everyone happy". I bet..except the sorry bastard whose home she was robbing.
She was an addict as well.
 Quoting: Debauchery

Easy, there.

You guys have to remember that you're no good to your families if you're rotting in prison, which is where you'll be if you "shoot to kill" and are convicted of it.

I ignored the commentary because that crap is slanted. If the story is true, he may have been alright up until he decided to finish them off. But what he did totally crossed the line, and he's going away for that forever.

Be careful what you post. Login information is discoverable in court.
peckerhead

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11/27/2012 02:00 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
So if he would have used a 12 gauge or 45 he would have been ok, Moral of the story, don't use a 22 for home defense.

Edit: I just found out he used a mini-14 then use the 22.

People are just getting tired of being robbed all the time.
 Quoting: rickky


I've seen video footage of a man being shot nine times with a .45, and running away afterward. I've read numerous stories about people being hit by 12 gauge rounds and running off. I've also read accounts of people being killed by a single .22 round.

Caliber is secondary. Shoot straight and use good SD ammo.
-
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11/27/2012 02:09 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
Mankind will never evolve.
 Quoting: pool


such as yourself...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28549021


Never have, never will.
Anonymous Coward
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11/27/2012 02:16 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
He was charged with going beyond deadly force???

That charge doesn't make any sense, what so ever...
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11/27/2012 02:20 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
Probably no need to shoot those two at all, unless he just needed to. I had neighbor's kids sneak in my back door when I was out and put a snake in the bedroom. Never know if they are actual thieves or just up to mischief/trespass. Looks more like these two got it because his house had been robbed a few times before. Still you need to be sure before you pull the trigger that the victim posses an actual threat. What if it had been two unarmed females, or young kids? Might as well have been from the looks of it.
Anonymous Coward
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11/27/2012 02:34 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
He was charged with going beyond deadly force???

That charge doesn't make any sense, what so ever...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2134890


You have a right to defend yourself. He was never attacked. The danger was over once the thieves were shot. He claimed he killed them to put them out of their misery. He actually broke several laws. You can only attempt to kill a intruder if they are committing a felony,the thieves didn't. You must call the police immediately after the attack,he didn't. You must render aid to the injured,his aid was to finish them off.


He had just retired from the State department as a intelligence gatherer.
Phillip J. Fry
Glp

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11/27/2012 05:01 AM

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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
'A person has every right to defend themselves and their homes, even employing deadly force if necessary,' Morrison County Sheriff Michel Wetzel said. 'Circumstances of this case however, led deputies to believe that Smith went beyond that point.'

 Quoting: ET*Dude


What point is beyond deadly force?

Dead is dead.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26119495


Beyond is....shot a girl with a rifle, she tumbles down the stairs, at this point he knows she's un-armed, drags her over to the dead cousin, shoots her multiple times in the chest with a 2nd gun, sticks the gun under her chin and fires one into her brain. Understand now? scratching
"Don't do anything that affects anything. Unless it turns out you were supposed to do it, in which case for the love of God. Don't not do it!"
pool
Netizen Ribbonmind

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11/27/2012 05:13 AM

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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
I don't rule out much. He could have dragged them into his house, then shot them.
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Integrity101

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11/27/2012 05:23 AM

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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
I would defend my home from robbers too....
NSF001

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United Kingdom
11/27/2012 05:26 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
Don't see the problem.

Minnesota law allows use of lethal force

May have used excessive force.

dead is dead is dead

Last Edited by NSF001 on 11/27/2012 05:26 AM
I don't think so,
he's up there with the others laying low,
vying with those who you've traded your life to to bless your soul,
ming

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11/27/2012 05:33 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
Right.

A 64 yr old man is ambushed by two young and strong teenagers who are trying to steal all his shit..but he used excessive force.

What a bunch of bullshit.

I guess Corky shouldn't have laughed at him.

On the bright side, the old man is nearing the end of his life anyway, he wont be in prison for very long if he goes plus he took out a couple of lowlife scums, saved someone else the trouble.
 Quoting: Debauchery


The old man is nearing the end of his life???

Good grief, he's only 64!
Out of this ugliness may come,
Some day, so beautiful a flower,
That men will wonder at that hour,
Remembering smoke and flowerless slum,
And ask-glimpsing the agony
Of the slaves who wrestle to be free-
'But why were all the poets dumb?'
-William Montgomerie

So many gods, so many creeds,
So many paths that wind and wind,
While just the art of being kind
Is all the sad world needs.
-Ella Wheeler Wilcox
Anonymous Coward
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11/27/2012 06:05 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
If ANYONE breaks into my home, I must assume they're there to hurt me or steal my stuff. Castle doctrine is on your side if someone is in your home uninvited. Granted the man went overboard with the execution-style killings, but if he had a good head shot with one bullet and killed them what would be the difference? They would both still be dead, so it doesn't really matter how they died. They we're a couple of stupid addicts, he had every right to use deadly force. I would have threatened them and if they made ANY movement beside running out my door as fast as they could I would have done the same. Two less scumbags in the world, it's so funny all of these "friends" of these low life criminals are defending them like they're perfect innocent little children. No, they we're grown teenagers who knew exactly what they were doing. They knew the risks involved and still broke into this mans home. That is why they're now six feet under.
Anonymous Coward
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11/27/2012 06:08 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
These "popular kids" sound like junkies.

Why were they burglarizing homes on Thanksgiving and not with parents or sleeping off a feast like the rest of America?

Why, after her cousin got blasted, did the girl continue his same path moments later (only to be shot too) and not scream or run instead?

Why, after watching her cousin get shot to death, then shot herself, then tumbling wounded down a flight of stairs, then shot some more, was she in the mood for laughing?

Seems like 3 crazy people collided on this one. Now two are dead and the third's facing life.
Debauchery

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11/27/2012 06:19 AM
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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
Right.

A 64 yr old man is ambushed by two young and strong teenagers who are trying to steal all his shit..but he used excessive force.

What a bunch of bullshit.

I guess Corky shouldn't have laughed at him.

On the bright side, the old man is nearing the end of his life anyway, he wont be in prison for very long if he goes plus he took out a couple of lowlife scums, saved someone else the trouble.
 Quoting: Debauchery


The old man is nearing the end of his life???

Good grief, he's only 64!
 Quoting: ming


chuckle

I guess my point is he's not going to sit in there for 50 yrs or so..like a 20 yr old might be forced to do.
And the LORD spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it." Amen.
Newheart
ISA

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11/27/2012 09:37 AM

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Re: Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'
Why not just shoot them in the legs and call the police? They are just kids from broken homes.
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Faith to me is having left the sanctuaries of men and their theology, and to come out from among them that dance around a golden calf, by the making of their own hands, entrusting completely and without reserve to God within.

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