Students Found Murdered In Man's Basement After 'They Robbed His Home On Thanksgiving'

HOW CAN THEY SAY HE OVERREACTED???

How would he know one wont whip out a pistol and shoot him in the blink of an eye, FFS?

Do the crime, do the time. Sounds like this guy is a bit off. But how many of these armed to the teeth "off" individuals are there? Not safe being a criminal I guess.

Cops empty guns into people all the time with no concern for 'overkill'. And under far more questionable circumstances.

If the death rate for burglary was 100%, I doubt most burglars would stay in that line of work.

I think they got what they deserved.

The old man is probably fed up with shit in general, add on to that kids that think they're entitled to stroll into someones home, violate a persons space and take their possessions and I'm sure it was the straw that broke the camels back..in addition to the criminal laughing in his face.

People that do shit like that and then laugh about it, well they deserve no sympathy. If they'd had a weapon..what do you think would have happened?

No more sympathy. Shit like this is becoming common, 17-18 yr olds doing whatever they want and expecting no consequences, thinking that you can bully people around and get away with it. Nah..it's time more people started shooting to kill when someone breaks in, if you don't finish the job the first few times please do get closer and put the barrel right up to their face. In this day and age you have to be aware that people aren't going to take your shit anymore. If you come into my house to rob me I'm going empty my weapon and reload if need be. I'm going to make sure you are dead. I don't care if you are defenseless, I don't care how old you are. The second you enter without an invitation you become a threat to my life.

I like the commentary from friends and family. "She was always happy, she had a way that made everyone happy". I bet..except the sorry bastard whose home she was robbing.
She was an addict as well.

It actually doesn't matter if they had weapons or not. Simply having two or more attackers is considered deadly force in most states.

Even that didn't matter. He feared for his life, so fought as best he could. It sounds like a scramble.

He should have reported it instantly, but even then, he might have feared that he'd be seen as guilty, so panicked.

That's the way the cops do it. They keep shooting until the victim is dead.

Seems to me they got what they asked for.

There is no justification of robbing peoples homes.

Especially on the holidays.

Hard way to learn one of life's basic principals.

He tried to shoot her again with his rifle, but the gun jammed and Kifer laughed at him, the complaint noted.


She got shot, fell down the stairs, and laughed at him? This is either a lie or this girl was not right in the head... The article tries to gain sympathy for the teenagers, repeatedly mentioning how he didn't need to kill them, "beyond self defense", talking about how great they were as people, but completely overlook the fact that they broke into this man's house with intent to steal from him or hurt him. People see what they want to see I guess. These two were no angels.

The old man had his home robbed 8 times. He probably felt traumatized by it. He probably shot them thinking they were armed. A lot of comments stated that he could have wounded them and called the cops, but if he thought they were armed, it could have been suicidal for him to do that.
Some of the stuff stated in the article doesn't make sense.

Getting shot is a occupational hazard of being a burglar.

As far as overkill goes, if the burglar is still moving and trying to get up then they are still a threat and you need to keep shooting to eliminate the threat.

What else would you do? Stop firing and wait for them to pull out a gun and shoot you or throw a knife at you? Run away and get caught by their accomplice outside?

Unfortunately, one must assume that anyone breaking into their home means them harm. Failure to effectively counter that intent is suicidal. It is not nice, it is not kind and is very unpleasant to contemplate but the intruder is the one who made the choice. Deal with it or suffer the consequences.

The story still sounds flaky.....

Seems the article is trying to make the burglars look good and the old guy a nutjob....

In a self defense shoot you fire until the threat is neutralized....not wound or shot once and see if the attacker is hit....you shoot until the attacker no longer poses a threat....

So if he would have used a 12 gauge or 45 he would have been ok, Moral of the story, don't use a 22 for home defense.

Edit: I just found out he used a mini-14 then use the 22.

People are just getting tired of being robbed all the time.

Last Edited by rickky on 11/27/2012 01:10 AM

It is all over the local news and the old man is screwed.

The "Castle Law" is ambiguous on purpose. It states you can use deadly but reasonable force to save your life.

Reasonable force is in the eye of the beholder.

I remember a incident during the Iraq war that was similar to a point. Men were in a Mosque shooting at Marines,a explosion took out the room they were in. A Marine and camera man went into the room and the Marine said"this one is still alive"he then shot the man several times in the back and said"Now he's not". This all got filmed and the general public was shocked by the murder of the injured man. The Marine went to a Courts Martial but was found not guilty because the mans hand was under his body and it could have had a weapon in it.

It will be found that a reasonable man would not have shot the girl in the head after she was shot several times in the chest.

Never talk to cops,only talk to your lawyer. Anything you say can and will be used against you.

I also believe the whole story is not out. The old man claims that the bay came down the stairs and he shot him. He stated that the girl came down stairs after the shooting. BS.

Easy, there.

You guys have to remember that you're no good to your families if you're rotting in prison, which is where you'll be if you "shoot to kill" and are convicted of it.

I ignored the commentary because that crap is slanted. If the story is true, he may have been alright up until he decided to finish them off. But what he did totally crossed the line, and he's going away for that forever.

Be careful what you post. Login information is discoverable in court.

I've seen video footage of a man being shot nine times with a .45, and running away afterward. I've read numerous stories about people being hit by 12 gauge rounds and running off. I've also read accounts of people being killed by a single .22 round.

Caliber is secondary. Shoot straight and use good SD ammo.

Never have, never will.

He was charged with going beyond deadly force???

That charge doesn't make any sense, what so ever...

Probably no need to shoot those two at all, unless he just needed to. I had neighbor's kids sneak in my back door when I was out and put a snake in the bedroom. Never know if they are actual thieves or just up to mischief/trespass. Looks more like these two got it because his house had been robbed a few times before. Still you need to be sure before you pull the trigger that the victim posses an actual threat. What if it had been two unarmed females, or young kids? Might as well have been from the looks of it.

You have a right to defend yourself. He was never attacked. The danger was over once the thieves were shot. He claimed he killed them to put them out of their misery. He actually broke several laws. You can only attempt to kill a intruder if they are committing a felony,the thieves didn't. You must call the police immediately after the attack,he didn't. You must render aid to the injured,his aid was to finish them off.


He had just retired from the State department as a intelligence gatherer.

Beyond is....shot a girl with a rifle, she tumbles down the stairs, at this point he knows she's un-armed, drags her over to the dead cousin, shoots her multiple times in the chest with a 2nd gun, sticks the gun under her chin and fires one into her brain. Understand now?

I don't rule out much. He could have dragged them into his house, then shot them.

I would defend my home from robbers too....

Don't see the problem.

Minnesota law allows use of lethal force

May have used excessive force.

dead is dead is dead

Last Edited by NSF001 on 11/27/2012 05:26 AM

The old man is nearing the end of his life???

Good grief, he's only 64!

If ANYONE breaks into my home, I must assume they're there to hurt me or steal my stuff. Castle doctrine is on your side if someone is in your home uninvited. Granted the man went overboard with the execution-style killings, but if he had a good head shot with one bullet and killed them what would be the difference? They would both still be dead, so it doesn't really matter how they died. They we're a couple of stupid addicts, he had every right to use deadly force. I would have threatened them and if they made ANY movement beside running out my door as fast as they could I would have done the same. Two less scumbags in the world, it's so funny all of these "friends" of these low life criminals are defending them like they're perfect innocent little children. No, they we're grown teenagers who knew exactly what they were doing. They knew the risks involved and still broke into this mans home. That is why they're now six feet under.

These "popular kids" sound like junkies.

Why were they burglarizing homes on Thanksgiving and not with parents or sleeping off a feast like the rest of America?

Why, after her cousin got blasted, did the girl continue his same path moments later (only to be shot too) and not scream or run instead?

Why, after watching her cousin get shot to death, then shot herself, then tumbling wounded down a flight of stairs, then shot some more, was she in the mood for laughing?

Seems like 3 crazy people collided on this one. Now two are dead and the third's facing life.

I guess my point is he's not going to sit in there for 50 yrs or so..like a 20 yr old might be forced to do.

Why not just shoot them in the legs and call the police? They are just kids from broken homes.

There are a lot of idiots out there. Anyone who suggested that has no business handling a firearm. You never, ever, ever shoot to "wound" in a self-defense situation. And not just because of the tactical implications.

A gun is a lethal force weapon, if you attempt to shoot it at someone in a deliberately non-lethal way (to wound or maim) then that demonstrates that you did not assess the threat as requiring a lethal force response, but because you used the gun you have automatically used what is legally considered lethal force no matter where on the person you were aiming. You make yourself legally and financially vulnerable by shooting to "wound" rather than kill. If you don't want to use lethal force then you shouldn't be firing the gun in the first place.

On the other hand, if a group of kids are break into your house and you have to use lethal force to stop the threat, fine, but failing to immediately report the incident indicates guilt and outright telling the cops you used more force than you had to is a great way to get yourself a nice prison sentence. If you were legitimately defending yourself, all you should be saying to the cops is that you feared for your life and you fired until the threat was stopped.