Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? | |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 140124 Canada 11/28/2012 01:24 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 28147705 United States 11/28/2012 01:25 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? if you're looking for "survival" firearms, you have your criteria exactly backwards. in a survival situation, filling the stew pot is much more important than defense against imaginary hordes. starvation is a survival specter that is known to exist. the handgun that is most effective as a combat arm is least effective at putting bunnies in your freezer. the shotgun that would be effective at quelling a charge by bushmen isnt worth shit for downing a goose. sure, you can pop bambi with an ar or ak, but with the common ammo that they get fed, you better have comfy boots on for following that wounded venison til it keels over or stiffens up enough to stop moving. you also better enjoy tough adrenaline tainted meat. if you honestly expect hordes of unfriendly heathens to be storming your castle, you need artillery, you need a mine field, you need crew served weapons. your deer rifle, goose gun, and bunny buster will work just fine to take the fight out of a couple of anti-social punks. what will be most effective for me might be the worst choice for you. the variables of ammo availability (eventually, you WILL have to scrounge ammo), weather conditions, and local game you might expect to bag make it a highly subjective criteria. even in your "mad max" scenario, the local tribes you intend to defend against is a variable nobody else can factor. if you absolutely have to have military style arms, and you live in north america, then you want .223 (5.56mm) as your rifle round, 12 ga as the feedstock for your pump shotty, and 9mm as your handgun. those are the military issue rounds for the entire continent, so there will be scroungable ammo for them for a long time. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 28613370 United States 11/28/2012 01:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? AK 47 hands down is the best weapon and the most affordable. no if ands or buts...the ar jams consistently and unless you are used to that it could get you killed. I love the ar and so does the military but my weapon of choice is the AK. There is nothing you can do to stop it. |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 140124 Canada 11/28/2012 01:34 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? if you're looking for "survival" firearms, you have your criteria exactly backwards. in a survival situation, filling the stew pot is much more important than defense against imaginary hordes. starvation is a survival specter that is known to exist. the handgun that is most effective as a combat arm is least effective at putting bunnies in your freezer. the shotgun that would be effective at quelling a charge by bushmen isnt worth shit for downing a goose. sure, you can pop bambi with an ar or ak, but with the common ammo that they get fed, you better have comfy boots on for following that wounded venison til it keels over or stiffens up enough to stop moving. you also better enjoy tough adrenaline tainted meat. if you honestly expect hordes of unfriendly heathens to be storming your castle, you need artillery, you need a mine field, you need crew served weapons. your deer rifle, goose gun, and bunny buster will work just fine to take the fight out of a couple of anti-social punks. what will be most effective for me might be the worst choice for you. the variables of ammo availability (eventually, you WILL have to scrounge ammo), weather conditions, and local game you might expect to bag make it a highly subjective criteria. even in your "mad max" scenario, the local tribes you intend to defend against is a variable nobody else can factor. if you absolutely have to have military style arms, and you live in north america, then you want .223 (5.56mm) as your rifle round, 12 ga as the feedstock for your pump shotty, and 9mm as your handgun. those are the military issue rounds for the entire continent, so there will be scroungable ammo for them for a long time. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28147705 We have lots of food and a homestead. But thank you. |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 140124 Canada 11/28/2012 01:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? AK 47 hands down is the best weapon and the most affordable. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28613370 no if ands or buts...the ar jams consistently and unless you are used to that it could get you killed. I love the ar and so does the military but my weapon of choice is the AK. There is nothing you can do to stop it. Thanks. I've been leaning AK for a while, I think it will be my next purchase for sure. I'd still like to buy another three like I mentioned. The handgun for ease of carrying and concealment, the rifle for long range. Shotguns are just good to have and I don't know much about the options. Thanks for the reply and confirming what I am leaning towards. |
americaisthebattlefield User ID: 28613370 United States 11/28/2012 01:40 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 21645121 United States 11/28/2012 01:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 140124 Canada 11/28/2012 01:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? Yeah, the ar will get you killed. Unless you are trained with it. Quoting: americaisthebattlefield Good choice. Thanks, and for the record I don't expect hordes, but you never know. I think it would be tough to survive in that instance anyways. In the mountains so...the hoards may make there way here eventually, but who knows? I can only prepare for so much. |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 140124 Canada 11/28/2012 01:44 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 9425489 United States 11/28/2012 01:44 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? For me with a budget in mind: 1) Mossberg 500 2) Arsenal SAM 7 (I bought it before they discontinued it for 700, noway I am paying 2 grand for an AK) 3) cz75b Money is not an issue? Hm. 1) AA12 2) FN SCAR heavy 3) SVI 2011 |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 9425489 United States 11/28/2012 01:45 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? Nobody can say what is the absolute best. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9425489 For me with a budget in mind: 1) Mossberg 500 2) Arsenal SAM 7 (I bought it before they discontinued it for 700, noway I am paying 2 grand for an AK) 3) cz75b Money is not an issue? Hm. 1) AA12 2) FN SCAR heavy 3) SVI 2011 Oh, I would take that 2011 in 10mm if money was not an issue. |
americaisthebattlefield User ID: 28613370 United States 11/28/2012 01:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 9425489 United States 11/28/2012 01:48 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? the ak semi auto is better than the ak auto, thats my story and I'm sticking to it Quoting: americaisthebattlefield desert eagle is good too just in case you were wondering Why is a desert eagle good? Way too big, unless you are 6'10" with incredibly large hands, and even then it is probably still too big. You could go for a baby eagle but I am just not sure why you would. Unless you really just want to tell people you own a desert eagle. |
americaisthebattlefield User ID: 28613370 United States 11/28/2012 01:51 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Abraham User ID: 26438866 United States 11/28/2012 01:52 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? Avoid Century Arms Ak-47s/AKM's. these are hit and miss, and usually miss. If you want a solid military style AK, go with Arsenal or M&M. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1430199 United States 11/28/2012 01:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 28622295 Canada 11/28/2012 01:56 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? Thanks. I've been leaning AK for a while, I think it will be my next purchase for sure. I'd still like to buy another three like I mentioned. The handgun for ease of carrying and concealment, the rifle for long range. Shotguns are just good to have and I don't know much about the options. Thanks for the reply and confirming what I am leaning towards. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28613370 Do you live near the border? Order an AK flat and hammer it yourself. Once you've formed the reciever you can order all the rest of the parts from interent sources over the counter and have them shipped to your yank UPS store box. Assemble the pieces and don't tell anybody. Get your flats and kits here: [link to ak-builder.com] or any one of 100 more sources you can easily find. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 23215144 United States 11/28/2012 01:56 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? Handgun: Springfield XD 40 or 45 9mm will not stop anyone in their tracks unless its a perfect shot. Shotgun: Mossberg 500 12ga Cheap, reliable, easy to use, 12ga is the most popular Rifle: AR-15 in 5.56/.223 for self protection It was love at first shot for me, the AK is good too, but I trust the AR and it's ammo more. If you get one, really spend some time getting to know every part of it. Rifle: Ruger 10/22 22lr for survival Very reliable, very basic, cheap ammo, good enough to hunt small game |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 9425489 United States 11/28/2012 01:57 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 23215144 United States 11/28/2012 01:57 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
americaisthebattlefield User ID: 28613370 United States 11/28/2012 02:02 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? My best Gun is Obama. He is popular with unions. And in return I sell him politics. I tell him that unions are good and that he can never fail because the tax payers will always bail him out. In return he sends me weapons of mass destruction, handguns an rifles galore. He didn't stop until I asked him about the deficit to which he said, God is your worst enemy. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 28147705 United States 11/28/2012 02:18 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? ok, so now a few questions OP. how far do you envision having to engage a target with aimed fire (ill assume you are talking civi spec models)? what situation do you envision using the shotgun for? you mention concealabilty as a criteria for your handgun, is that something you are willing to sacrifice either stopping power or mag capacity for? the tactical doctrine the akm (sheet metal receiver version of the ak) was spec'd out for is vastly different than that of the ar. the ar is a semi-auto battle rifle of small enough caliber to be used in full auto effectively. it is designed for a combat doctrine of deliberate aimed fire at a specific target. the akm is spec'd for being the replacement for the ppsh submachinegun. it is designed for a combat doctrine of full auto fire on massed troops with a fixed bayonet. it's a 3 to 7 MOA weapon (beaten zone). that means at 300 yds, your ak is just as likely to miss as hit a human sized target with a COM aiming point on semi auto. beyond 300 yds, you are more likely to miss than hit. you will see ar's used in rifle matches, you will NEVER see an akm used in one, for that very reason. for shotguns, an 18-20 inch cylinder bore barreled PUMP shotgun is the only choice. a mossberg 500 variant is one of the more robust choices you can make. in the late 80s, the mossy was the ONLY shotgun that passed the military field trials the us army held. that said, the remington 870, the winchester 1200, and the ithaca 37 are good reliable shotguns as well (the ithaca has the added advantage of downward ejection, thus is equally usable by left handed shooters, and has one less opening in the receiver for crap to get in). 12 ga will be the bore with the most versatile availability of loaded round choices, 20 ga is a very close 2nd. if stopping power is the only criteria in your handgun, a .45 acp is the choice. a .40 s&w can be a very effective manstopper, and usually holds a round or 2 more. 9mm still has decent stopping power, and will come in much more compact sizes while still holding a good quantity of ammo. nothing smaller than 9mm para can be considered a reliable manstopper. as to which pistol would be best, that is too subjective to call. my suggestion is hit the gunshops and find the one that "feels right" in your hand. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 18097583 Canada 11/28/2012 02:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? Well if you are in Canada you're not going to find an AK. They are prohibited here. Also you can't technically purchase a firearm for the purpose of self defence unless you have a reason like you're a game warden or armoured car driver or whatever. So what sporting firearms should you buy to start? SKS: [link to www.tradeexcanada.com] $169 Ammo is dirt cheap for rifle ammo but it's not as cheap as .22lr and it is corrosive.. still you can bet your life on 7.62X39... still it's great for fun because it's so cheap at about 20 cents a shot. Money no object? Take a look around here: [link to www.tacticalimports.ca] |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 140124 Canada 11/28/2012 02:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? Well if you are in Canada you're not going to find an AK. They are prohibited here. Also you can't technically purchase a firearm for the purpose of self defence unless you have a reason like you're a game warden or armoured car driver or whatever. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18097583 So what sporting firearms should you buy to start? SKS: [link to www.tradeexcanada.com] $169 Ammo is dirt cheap for rifle ammo but it's not as cheap as .22lr and it is corrosive.. still you can bet your life on 7.62X39... still it's great for fun because it's so cheap at about 20 cents a shot. Money no object? Take a look around here: [link to www.tacticalimports.ca] Pretty sure you can get special licenses. Not 100% on this though. This feedback is great, thanks everyone. Keep it comin! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 11339483 Canada 11/28/2012 02:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 140124 Canada 11/28/2012 02:56 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? Handgun: Springfield XD 40 or 45 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23215144 9mm will not stop anyone in their tracks unless its a perfect shot. Shotgun: Mossberg 500 12ga Cheap, reliable, easy to use, 12ga is the most popular Rifle: AR-15 in 5.56/.223 for self protection It was love at first shot for me, the AK is good too, but I trust the AR and it's ammo more. If you get one, really spend some time getting to know every part of it. Rifle: Ruger 10/22 22lr for survival Very reliable, very basic, cheap ammo, good enough to hunt small game Thanks, great post. |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 140124 Canada 11/28/2012 03:02 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? ok, so now a few questions OP. how far do you envision having to engage a target with aimed fire (ill assume you are talking civi spec models)? what situation do you envision using the shotgun for? you mention concealabilty as a criteria for your handgun, is that something you are willing to sacrifice either stopping power or mag capacity for? the tactical doctrine the akm (sheet metal receiver version of the ak) was spec'd out for is vastly different than that of the ar. the ar is a semi-auto battle rifle of small enough caliber to be used in full auto effectively. it is designed for a combat doctrine of deliberate aimed fire at a specific target. the akm is spec'd for being the replacement for the ppsh submachinegun. it is designed for a combat doctrine of full auto fire on massed troops with a fixed bayonet. it's a 3 to 7 MOA weapon (beaten zone). that means at 300 yds, your ak is just as likely to miss as hit a human sized target with a COM aiming point on semi auto. beyond 300 yds, you are more likely to miss than hit. you will see ar's used in rifle matches, you will NEVER see an akm used in one, for that very reason. for shotguns, an 18-20 inch cylinder bore barreled PUMP shotgun is the only choice. a mossberg 500 variant is one of the more robust choices you can make. in the late 80s, the mossy was the ONLY shotgun that passed the military field trials the us army held. that said, the remington 870, the winchester 1200, and the ithaca 37 are good reliable shotguns as well (the ithaca has the added advantage of downward ejection, thus is equally usable by left handed shooters, and has one less opening in the receiver for crap to get in). 12 ga will be the bore with the most versatile availability of loaded round choices, 20 ga is a very close 2nd. if stopping power is the only criteria in your handgun, a .45 acp is the choice. a .40 s&w can be a very effective manstopper, and usually holds a round or 2 more. 9mm still has decent stopping power, and will come in much more compact sizes while still holding a good quantity of ammo. nothing smaller than 9mm para can be considered a reliable manstopper. as to which pistol would be best, that is too subjective to call. my suggestion is hit the gunshops and find the one that "feels right" in your hand. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28147705 300 yards would be max for sure. I'd love to go more, but that's getting into sniper rifle territory. Not real practical. The shotgun I'm hoping not to use, but if someone sneaks up, better have one in case they get by the cameras or perimeter watch. Most of your post is over my head, not gonna lie. I have a lot to learn, grew up on a farm shooting a .22. I'm gonna keep reading through your reply and see what I can figure out here. Thanks. |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 140124 Canada 11/28/2012 03:03 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? Well if you are in Canada you're not going to find an AK. They are prohibited here. Also you can't technically purchase a firearm for the purpose of self defence unless you have a reason like you're a game warden or armoured car driver or whatever. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18097583 So what sporting firearms should you buy to start? SKS: [link to www.tradeexcanada.com] $169 Ammo is dirt cheap for rifle ammo but it's not as cheap as .22lr and it is corrosive.. still you can bet your life on 7.62X39... still it's great for fun because it's so cheap at about 20 cents a shot. Money no object? Take a look around here: [link to www.tacticalimports.ca] Thanks for the links. That SKS looks niiiice... |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 28622295 Canada 11/28/2012 03:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Survival Gun Discussion - List Your Favorite 3. Best Handgun, Best Shotgun, Best Rifle. And Why? Well if you are in Canada you're not going to find an AK. They are prohibited here. Also you can't technically purchase a firearm for the purpose of self defence unless you have a reason like you're a game warden or armoured car driver or whatever. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18097583 So what sporting firearms should you buy to start? SKS: [link to www.tradeexcanada.com] $169 Ammo is dirt cheap for rifle ammo but it's not as cheap as .22lr and it is corrosive.. still you can bet your life on 7.62X39... still it's great for fun because it's so cheap at about 20 cents a shot. Money no object? Take a look around here: [link to www.tacticalimports.ca] Pretty sure you can get special licenses. Not 100% on this though. This feedback is great, thanks everyone. Keep it comin! You can't get licences for ARs or pistols anymore. They just plain don't hand them out anymore. If you already have one they'll renew it, but you will never be approved for a new one, I guarantee it. They only give those out now for cops who want to own one offduty, people who might need one for Olympic shooting sports, that kind of shit. Your best bet is to look up private sales in a US border town, go there buy the guns and smuggle them back. If you havn't got the guts to say fuck the bullshit laws and do it anyway, you havn't got the guts to shoot anybody or defend your freedom so don't even bother. |
lostinalaska User ID: 21099438 United States 11/28/2012 03:46 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |