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Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in

 
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 10:20 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
If you only injure them they will sue and take your house...but he screwed up in many ways...he should have killed them and called the cops and claimed self defense...
 Quoting: BRIEF


I don't get that. So if you shoot and kill someone its ok but if you shoot and they survive you will get sued? How does that work? So its only self defence if you kill the person that is violating you? How is that not a massive flaw?
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 10:22 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
What say you? Justified self-defense, or cold blooded murder? I don't consider a "nice, clean finishing shot" to an incapacitated teenage girl's head to be "self defense". This fucker I think should get what's coming to him with the murder 2 charge. Sure the teens shouldn't have broken into the guy's house but one shot, fall down the stairs, and call the fucking cops, don't blow their fucking heads off motherfucker!
 Quoting: strikeforce1


If you only injure them they will sue and take your house...but he screwed up in many ways...he should have killed them and called the cops and claimed self defense...
 Quoting: BRIEF


BS
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 10:23 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
he had every right to shoot them. no doubt about that.

but i can see how this could be considered an overkill since it sounds like he had incapacitated them prior to the final shot(s)
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11/28/2012 10:23 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
If you only injure them they will sue and take your house...but he screwed up in many ways...he should have killed them and called the cops and claimed self defense...
 Quoting: BRIEF


I don't get that. So if you shoot and kill someone its ok but if you shoot and they survive you will get sued? How does that work? So its only self defence if you kill the person that is violating you? How is that not a massive flaw?
 Quoting: Phill


no, the moron who posted that doesn't know wtf he's talking about. he's probably trying to figure out a way to blame obama is i type this.
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 10:24 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
If you only injure them they will sue and take your house...but he screwed up in many ways...he should have killed them and called the cops and claimed self defense...
 Quoting: BRIEF


I don't get that. So if you shoot and kill someone its ok but if you shoot and they survive you will get sued? How does that work? So its only self defence if you kill the person that is violating you? How is that not a massive flaw?
 Quoting: Phill


we have a fucked up legal system
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 10:27 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
If I see two figures in my house that don't belong there, I have every right to assume they are there to kill me and therefore I will shoot them in the face.
 Quoting: Apocalypse Troll


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^
TheGypsy

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11/28/2012 10:30 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
Thanksgiving Day Horror: Minnesota Teens Killed in Alleged Break-In

Nicholas Brady, 17, and Haile Kifer, 18, were shot repeatedly and their bodies left for nearly 24 hours in Byron Smith’s house before police were called. He says he killed them out of fear they were armed robbers. Matthew DeLuca reports.

On Thanksgiving Day around noon, Byron David Smith was sitting in the basement of his home on eight acres of land in Little Falls, Minn., a woodsy town of about 8,000 people, when he thought he heard intruders moving around upstairs.

How Smith, 64, ended up killing two teenagers in cold blood that day, as he later told police, is laid out in icy detail (PDF) in a criminal complaint filed in the state’s Seventh District Court on Monday.

Smith, who was worried the intruders might be armed, waited quietly downstairs with a Mini-14 rifle, a semi-automatic carbine, in his hand, according to the complaint, which details what he told police. He had a .22-caliber revolver strapped to his body, he said. He heard a window break, and later he showed police officers a broken window in his bedroom. He listened to footsteps above him, on the first floor of the house. Then he saw someone walking down the stairwell into the basement, where he sat, and a pair of legs became visible. Then he fired. Twice.

The person he shot was Nicholas Brady, a 17-year-old who also used the last name Schaeffel. Brady was looking up at Smith after he fell down the stairs. Smith, who has been reported to be a former security officer for the U.S. State Department, told police he shot Brady in the face.

The reason? “I want him dead,” Smith told officers.

Smith put Brady on a tarp and dragged him into a basement workshop, leaving the body there, he said. Then he went back to his seat. He waited.

It took a few minutes, but soon another pair of legs came down the basement stairs, It was Haile Kifer, a gymnast and diver for Little Falls High School. Smith told police he fired as the 18-year-old girl’s hips appeared. She too fell down the stairs. Smith’s Mini-14 jammed. Kifer laughed up at the man who would kill her. That made him mad, he said, even though it was only a short laugh because she was in so much pain.

“If you’re trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again,” Smith explained to police as his logic for what he did next. Smith said he shot Kifer in the chest with his .22-caliber revolver, not once but several times. That was “more shots than I needed to,” Smith later told police.

Kifer was still alive. Smith dragged her over to where he had left Brady’s body. The young woman gasped for air. Smith had a solution for that—what he later called “a good clean finishing shot.” He placed his gun underneath her chin and fired it “up into the cranium.”

Smith said he acted out of fear. He was afraid Brady or Kifer might have a weapon. Minnesota state law allows homeowners to defend themselves and their property if they believe they are in danger. Smith acknowledged to police that neither of the two teens in his home had a weapon.

The two bodies remained in the basement of Smith’s home overnight. The next morning, Smith seems to have become worried about how his actions might affect him. He called a neighbor on Friday and asked him if he knew lawyers, according to the complaint. Smith didn’t call the police, he later said, but asked the neighbor to call them. That call was placed at 1 p.m. on Nov. 23.

Officers arrived at Smith’s home, where he showed them the bodies of the two teens in his basement. He was arrested. Appearing in court in Morrison County on Monday morning, Smith was charged with two counts of unpremeditated murder in the second degree. Bail was set at $2 million.

“Mr. Smith intentionally killed two teenagers in his home in a manner that goes well beyond self-defense,” Morris County Attorney Brian Middendorf said on Monday.

Many questions remain unanswered in the town of Little Falls, where Kifer worked at the Falls Cinema, according to her Facebook page.

[link to www.thedailybeast.com]
 Quoting: strikeforce1

Good post but to many "what ifs" what if they did have guns? Why did they break into his house other them to steal? I would have shot them both in a heart beat to many risks maybe the fucking thieves should have considered that (common knowledge to have guns in your state) breaking in and taking this guys shit may cost them their lives. That man killed them slopily but none the less never knew the wholw time who was in his house or if THEY were armed. I would have unloaded on those stupid bastards to, teach low lives why you work if your to stupid to carry a gun yourself while ruinining other peoples lives. Just 2 more stupid sloths outa the gene pool.
BioReaper
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11/28/2012 10:30 AM

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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
deadrocket
"Blood and destruction shall be so in use And dreadful objects so familiar That mothers shall but smile when they behold Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war"
TheGypsy

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11/28/2012 10:32 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
What say you? Justified self-defense, or cold blooded murder? I don't consider a "nice, clean finishing shot" to an incapacitated teenage girl's head to be "self defense". This fucker I think should get what's coming to him with the murder 2 charge. Sure the teens shouldn't have broken into the guy's house but one shot, fall down the stairs, and call the fucking cops, don't blow their fucking heads off motherfucker!
 Quoting: strikeforce1


If you only injure them they will sue and take your house...but he screwed up in many ways...he should have killed them and called the cops and claimed self defense...
 Quoting: BRIEF


BS
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14207070


That's bs for sure I guess ill make sure they don't survive.
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 10:32 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
If you only injure them they will sue and take your house...but he screwed up in many ways...he should have killed them and called the cops and claimed self defense...
 Quoting: BRIEF


I don't get that. So if you shoot and kill someone its ok but if you shoot and they survive you will get sued? How does that work? So its only self defence if you kill the person that is violating you? How is that not a massive flaw?
 Quoting: Phill


we have a fucked up legal system
 Quoting: Oyster


true, but the original comment is complete bullshit
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 10:33 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
?? idk what to think.


given the limited information..guess i have to fall on the side of the property owner.
not guilty.

those kids put themselves into that position, not even saying they were bad kids- they just made a really bad choice.
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 10:34 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
What say you? Justified self-defense, or cold blooded murder? I don't consider a "nice, clean finishing shot" to an incapacitated teenage girl's head to be "self defense". This fucker I think should get what's coming to him with the murder 2 charge. Sure the teens shouldn't have broken into the guy's house but one shot, fall down the stairs, and call the fucking cops, don't blow their fucking heads off motherfucker!
 Quoting: strikeforce1


If you only injure them they will sue and take your house...but he screwed up in many ways...he should have killed them and called the cops and claimed self defense...
 Quoting: BRIEF


BS
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14207070


That's bs for sure I guess ill make sure they don't survive.
 Quoting: TheGypsy


BS as in that statement is not true. you dumbed down righties are like mindless drones
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 10:36 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
?? idk what to think.


given the limited information..guess i have to fall on the side of the property owner.
not guilty.

those kids put themselves into that position, not even saying they were bad kids- they just made a really bad choice.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27851254


limited info? we know the kids were unarmed. we know the kids were shot in the legs and rendered immobile. we know the homeowner then executed these kids unnecessarily. he even admitted taking it too far. what else is there to find out about this case?
BioReaper
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11/28/2012 10:39 AM

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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
Bottom line is this. These two darwin award winners should not have broken into this guys house. Too bad for them they broke into a home where the guy was a psycho. Live and learn. Or not.
"Blood and destruction shall be so in use And dreadful objects so familiar That mothers shall but smile when they behold Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war"
Ralph--a house dog

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11/28/2012 10:43 AM

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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
The initial shots where clear self defense. You are in clear fear for your life from home invaders. He should have called 9/11 not continued shooting once safe.
 Quoting: Fred 21515285



The thing is, how does one determine in the heat of the moment exactly when they are safe?

The injured burglar could pull a gun out of a leg holster or pocket; they could throw a knife. If you run away you could be fired on by an accomplice of the burglar(s) (getaway car driver or outside guard)

In every one of the 5 defensive firearms courses I have taken (in 2 different states-- one before they had a Castle Doctrine) the instructors have said to keep shooting at an intruder until you run out of ammo. The objective of all parties involved is always to survive the encounter.

I still think the guy probably had Post Traumatic Stress from having been broken in on 8 times previously.

Last Edited by Ralph--a house dog on 11/28/2012 10:47 AM
"Who decides?"
---Robert A. Heinlein

[link to www.westcoasttruth.com]

"Do Not Go Gentle into that Good Night.....Rage, rage against the dying of the light"
----Dylan Thomas
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 10:45 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
Justified or not? I guess that depends on where you live.
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 10:46 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
?? idk what to think.


given the limited information..guess i have to fall on the side of the property owner.
not guilty.

those kids put themselves into that position, not even saying they were bad kids- they just made a really bad choice.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27851254


limited info? we know the kids were unarmed. we know the kids were shot in the legs and rendered immobile. we know the homeowner then executed these kids unnecessarily. he even admitted taking it too far. what else is there to find out about this case?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14207070

well in that case my verdict stands..not guilty.

people sneaking around in my house will be fired upon until the threat is stopped.
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 10:47 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
If you only injure them they will sue and take your house...but he screwed up in many ways...he should have killed them and called the cops and claimed self defense...
 Quoting: BRIEF


I don't get that. So if you shoot and kill someone its ok but if you shoot and they survive you will get sued? How does that work? So its only self defence if you kill the person that is violating you? How is that not a massive flaw?
 Quoting: Phill


no, the moron who posted that doesn't know wtf he's talking about. he's probably trying to figure out a way to blame obama is i type this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14207070


Lol, if you ever see him in a thread just make your story more exaggerated than his. It shuts him right up :)
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 10:51 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
The initial shots where clear self defense. You are in clear fear for your life from home invaders. He should have called 9/11 not continued shooting once safe.
 Quoting: Fred 21515285



The thing is, how does one determine in the heat of the moment exactly when they are safe?

The injured burglar could pull a gun out of a leg holster or pocket; they could throw a knife. If you run away you could be fired on by an accomplice of the burglar(s) (getaway car driver or outside guard)

In every one of the 5 defensive firearms courses I have taken (in 2 different states-- one before they had a Castle Doctrine) the instructors have said to keep shooting at an intruder until you run out of ammo. The objective of all parties involved is always to survive the encounter.

I still think the guy probably had Post Traumatic Stress from having been broken in on 8 times previously.
 Quoting: Ralph--a house dog


He could have probably dumped every round, but when you put the gun under her chin, that's a little different. Obviously by that point he was out of danger.
Sneetch

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11/28/2012 10:54 AM

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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
If you only injure them they will sue and take your house...but he screwed up in many ways...he should have killed them and called the cops and claimed self defense...
 Quoting: BRIEF


I don't get that. So if you shoot and kill someone its ok but if you shoot and they survive you will get sued? How does that work? So its only self defence if you kill the person that is violating you? How is that not a massive flaw?
 Quoting: Phill


no, the moron who posted that doesn't know wtf he's talking about. he's probably trying to figure out a way to blame obama is i type this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14207070


Lol, if you ever see him in a thread just make your story more exaggerated than his. It shuts him right up :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28581989


[link to www.huffingtonpost.com]

Hes talking about shit like this.
We were meant to live for so much more, have we lost ourselves?
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 10:55 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
If you only injure them they will sue and take your house...but he screwed up in many ways...he should have killed them and called the cops and claimed self defense...
 Quoting: BRIEF


I don't get that. So if you shoot and kill someone its ok but if you shoot and they survive you will get sued? How does that work? So its only self defence if you kill the person that is violating you? How is that not a massive flaw?
 Quoting: Phill


no, the moron who posted that doesn't know wtf he's talking about. he's probably trying to figure out a way to blame obama is i type this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14207070


Lol, if you ever see him in a thread just make your story more exaggerated than his. It shuts him right up :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28581989


Or, just make a really good point. POOF!

A hard question will do it too. lol
BRIEF
Rebel with morals

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11/28/2012 10:56 AM

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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
If you only injure them they will sue and take your house...but he screwed up in many ways...he should have killed them and called the cops and claimed self defense...
 Quoting: BRIEF


I don't get that. So if you shoot and kill someone its ok but if you shoot and they survive you will get sued? How does that work? So its only self defence if you kill the person that is violating you? How is that not a massive flaw?
 Quoting: Phill


It can't be explained with logic because it's a Liberal issue...
With freedom comes responsibility.

Heterosexual pride!

Briefcut4892
BRIEF
Rebel with morals

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11/28/2012 11:00 AM

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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
...


I don't get that. So if you shoot and kill someone its ok but if you shoot and they survive you will get sued? How does that work? So its only self defence if you kill the person that is violating you? How is that not a massive flaw?
 Quoting: Phill


no, the moron who posted that doesn't know wtf he's talking about. he's probably trying to figure out a way to blame obama is i type this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14207070


Lol, if you ever see him in a thread just make your story more exaggerated than his. It shuts him right up :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28581989


[link to www.huffingtonpost.com]

Hes talking about shit like this.
 Quoting: Sneetch


Yup, and the women that got sued when a burglar cut himself on a kitchen knife while crawling through a window...everyone has heard these crazy cases...

Last Edited by BRIEF on 11/28/2012 11:02 AM
With freedom comes responsibility.

Heterosexual pride!

Briefcut4892
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11/28/2012 11:03 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
If I am a juror:

As for unpremeditated murder in the 2nd degree of the male = Not Guilty.

As for the same charge with regard to the female = Guilty.

The situation had changed significantly between the two deaths, and the second person (female) was killed execution style, when no further fear for his life could be demonstrated.

He'll go to jail for killing the girl, and the lapse in judgement when he didn't call the cops.
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 11:04 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
?? idk what to think.


given the limited information..guess i have to fall on the side of the property owner.
not guilty.

those kids put themselves into that position, not even saying they were bad kids- they just made a really bad choice.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27851254


limited info? we know the kids were unarmed. we know the kids were shot in the legs and rendered immobile. we know the homeowner then executed these kids unnecessarily. he even admitted taking it too far. what else is there to find out about this case?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14207070

well in that case my verdict stands..not guilty.

people sneaking around in my house will be fired upon until the threat is stopped.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27851254


no shit. he's not guilty in your eyes despite what logic, the law, and human compassion says
BRIEF
Rebel with morals

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11/28/2012 11:06 AM

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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
If I am a juror:

As for unpremeditated murder in the 2nd degree of the male = Not Guilty.

As for the same charge with regard to the female = Guilty.

The situation had changed significantly between the two deaths, and the second person (female) was killed execution style, when no further fear for his life could be demonstrated.

He'll go to jail for killing the girl, and the lapse in judgement when he didn't call the cops.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15091083


I think if someone breaks into your home, your sanctuary, it should be legal to torture, rape, or do anything you damn well please to them...
With freedom comes responsibility.

Heterosexual pride!

Briefcut4892
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11/28/2012 11:06 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
Darwin award winners, I hope.

Break into someone's house, die.
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 11:06 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
As for unpremeditated murder in the 2nd degree of the male = Not Guilty.


The situation had changed significantly between the two deaths, and the second person (female) was killed execution style, when no further fear for his life could be demonstrated.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15091083


He also executed the boy by shooting him in the face after he shot him in the legs.
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 11:08 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
...


I don't get that. So if you shoot and kill someone its ok but if you shoot and they survive you will get sued? How does that work? So its only self defence if you kill the person that is violating you? How is that not a massive flaw?
 Quoting: Phill


no, the moron who posted that doesn't know wtf he's talking about. he's probably trying to figure out a way to blame obama is i type this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14207070


Lol, if you ever see him in a thread just make your story more exaggerated than his. It shuts him right up :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28581989


[link to www.huffingtonpost.com]

Hes talking about shit like this.
 Quoting: Sneetch


do you not know what the difference between a civil lawsuit and a criminal trial is? granted the lawsuit is frivilous and will be thrown out, but the homeowner was never charged with a crime. did you even read the article or is reading comprehension just not your thing?
Anonymous Coward
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11/28/2012 11:08 AM
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Re: Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in
If I am a juror:

As for unpremeditated murder in the 2nd degree of the male = Not Guilty.

As for the same charge with regard to the female = Guilty.

The situation had changed significantly between the two deaths, and the second person (female) was killed execution style, when no further fear for his life could be demonstrated.

He'll go to jail for killing the girl, and the lapse in judgement when he didn't call the cops.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15091083


I think if someone breaks into your home, your sanctuary, it should be legal to torture, rape, or do anything you damn well please to them...
 Quoting: BRIEF


you're a sick fuck

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