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| 11:07 AM | ||
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Justified or not? Homeowner shoots in cold blood, kills two teens in home break-in | |
| <<FOCUS>> User ID: 660580  United States11/28/2012 01:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 13159682 United States11/28/2012 01:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Whats more excessive his calculated killing of two people who knowingly broke into property that was not theirs with intent to commit some act of premeditated theft or even possibly murder. Or somebody using a meat cleaver on an intruder hacking them to death in a wild melee. I agree it seems a bit excessive, however the very act of defense often means making excessive decisions to protect ones person from harm. Even a clean single shot blowing someones head to pieces is excessive, using a baseball bat to brain an intruder is excessive, however it would have all been avoided if the two teens didnt use their arrogance to think their decision was justified to break into a persons house. Sad day for all parties, but again STOP FUCKING ROBBING and the world wouldn't have to resort to such insanity. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 18401048 United States11/28/2012 01:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | why the Fck did the girl not Ran away after hear the first gun shoot??? Quoting: red/mx something just dont fit in the story.. Sounds like she might not have been in the house yet when her cousin got shot. The shooter said he heard glass break after the first was down. she still would have heard the shot |
BRIEF  User ID: 381742 United States11/28/2012 01:06 PM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | so if your kids were trespassing, and the homeowner raped them, you would be ok with that? Taught my kids better than that...didn't really need to teach them that specifically because they aren't stupid like you are... it's called a hypothetical smart guy. i'm not surprised you can't grasp the concept. anyone that condones torture and rape should be eliminated from the gene pool No parent likes when their child is hurt moron... I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked.  |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 6493463 United States11/28/2012 01:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Bottom line is this. These two darwin award winners should not have broken into this guys house. Too bad for them they broke into a home where the guy was a psycho. Live and learn. Or not. Quoting: BioReaper Yup. Yes it's harsh but true. If this happened more, then fewer punks would break into other people's homes. They thought they would have an easy romp over an old man. They were wrong. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 6493463 United States11/28/2012 01:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanksgiving Day Horror: Minnesota Teens Killed in Alleged Break-In Quoting: strikeforce1 Nicholas Brady, 17, and Haile Kifer, 18, were shot repeatedly and their bodies left for nearly 24 hours in Byron Smith’s house before police were called. He says he killed them out of fear they were armed robbers. Matthew DeLuca reports. On Thanksgiving Day around noon, Byron David Smith was sitting in the basement of his home on eight acres of land in Little Falls, Minn., a woodsy town of about 8,000 people, when he thought he heard intruders moving around upstairs. How Smith, 64, ended up killing two teenagers in cold blood that day, as he later told police, is laid out in icy detail (PDF) in a criminal complaint filed in the state’s Seventh District Court on Monday. Smith, who was worried the intruders might be armed, waited quietly downstairs with a Mini-14 rifle, a semi-automatic carbine, in his hand, according to the complaint, which details what he told police. He had a .22-caliber revolver strapped to his body, he said. He heard a window break, and later he showed police officers a broken window in his bedroom. He listened to footsteps above him, on the first floor of the house. Then he saw someone walking down the stairwell into the basement, where he sat, and a pair of legs became visible. Then he fired. Twice. The person he shot was Nicholas Brady, a 17-year-old who also used the last name Schaeffel. Brady was looking up at Smith after he fell down the stairs. Smith, who has been reported to be a former security officer for the U.S. State Department, told police he shot Brady in the face. The reason? “I want him dead,” Smith told officers. Smith put Brady on a tarp and dragged him into a basement workshop, leaving the body there, he said. Then he went back to his seat. He waited. It took a few minutes, but soon another pair of legs came down the basement stairs, It was Haile Kifer, a gymnast and diver for Little Falls High School. Smith told police he fired as the 18-year-old girl’s hips appeared. She too fell down the stairs. Smith’s Mini-14 jammed. Kifer laughed up at the man who would kill her. That made him mad, he said, even though it was only a short laugh because she was in so much pain. “If you’re trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again,” Smith explained to police as his logic for what he did next. Smith said he shot Kifer in the chest with his .22-caliber revolver, not once but several times. That was “more shots than I needed to,” Smith later told police. Kifer was still alive. Smith dragged her over to where he had left Brady’s body. The young woman gasped for air. Smith had a solution for that—what he later called “a good clean finishing shot.” He placed his gun underneath her chin and fired it “up into the cranium.” Smith said he acted out of fear. He was afraid Brady or Kifer might have a weapon. Minnesota state law allows homeowners to defend themselves and their property if they believe they are in danger. Smith acknowledged to police that neither of the two teens in his home had a weapon. The two bodies remained in the basement of Smith’s home overnight. The next morning, Smith seems to have become worried about how his actions might affect him. He called a neighbor on Friday and asked him if he knew lawyers, according to the complaint. Smith didn’t call the police, he later said, but asked the neighbor to call them. That call was placed at 1 p.m. on Nov. 23. Officers arrived at Smith’s home, where he showed them the bodies of the two teens in his basement. He was arrested. Appearing in court in Morrison County on Monday morning, Smith was charged with two counts of unpremeditated murder in the second degree. Bail was set at $2 million. “Mr. Smith intentionally killed two teenagers in his home in a manner that goes well beyond self-defense,” Morris County Attorney Brian Middendorf said on Monday. Many questions remain unanswered in the town of Little Falls, where Kifer worked at the Falls Cinema, according to her Facebook page. [link to www.thedailybeast.com] It sounds horrific, but there are some complex elements here: 1. Sounds like he told the whole truth. He could've made up an excuse about how they "came for me" even after being shot in the legs, and he had to blow them away 2. When someone is coming down stairs, you have to shoot before they get their gun on you, so yes he had to shoot them in the legs. 3. Now that he's shot them in the legs, he might have prevented them from running but he hasn't prevented them from pulling a gun out of their pockets and blowing him away. Would YOU sit around and wait to see if they have a gun? 4. A trained cop might know how to disarm a disabled crimina. But an average elderly citizen? No way! You can't expect this old guy to approach and get close enough to inspect and disarm the person. Even if the criminal doesn't have a gun on him, he could reach out and pull the old guy down and then beat him to death. Under the heat and fear of the moment, it's perfectly reasonable for the elderly citizen to shoot again! I would. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1219974 United States11/28/2012 01:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 6493463 United States11/28/2012 01:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanksgiving Day Horror: Minnesota Teens Killed in Alleged Break-In Quoting: strikeforce1 Nicholas Brady, 17, and Haile Kifer, 18, were shot repeatedly and their bodies left for nearly 24 hours in Byron Smith’s house before police were called. He says he killed them out of fear they were armed robbers. Matthew DeLuca reports. On Thanksgiving Day around noon, Byron David Smith was sitting in the basement of his home on eight acres of land in Little Falls, Minn., a woodsy town of about 8,000 people, when he thought he heard intruders moving around upstairs. How Smith, 64, ended up killing two teenagers in cold blood that day, as he later told police, is laid out in icy detail (PDF) in a criminal complaint filed in the state’s Seventh District Court on Monday. Smith, who was worried the intruders might be armed, waited quietly downstairs with a Mini-14 rifle, a semi-automatic carbine, in his hand, according to the complaint, which details what he told police. He had a .22-caliber revolver strapped to his body, he said. He heard a window break, and later he showed police officers a broken window in his bedroom. He listened to footsteps above him, on the first floor of the house. Then he saw someone walking down the stairwell into the basement, where he sat, and a pair of legs became visible. Then he fired. Twice. The person he shot was Nicholas Brady, a 17-year-old who also used the last name Schaeffel. Brady was looking up at Smith after he fell down the stairs. Smith, who has been reported to be a former security officer for the U.S. State Department, told police he shot Brady in the face. The reason? “I want him dead,” Smith told officers. Smith put Brady on a tarp and dragged him into a basement workshop, leaving the body there, he said. Then he went back to his seat. He waited. It took a few minutes, but soon another pair of legs came down the basement stairs, It was Haile Kifer, a gymnast and diver for Little Falls High School. Smith told police he fired as the 18-year-old girl’s hips appeared. She too fell down the stairs. Smith’s Mini-14 jammed. Kifer laughed up at the man who would kill her. That made him mad, he said, even though it was only a short laugh because she was in so much pain. “If you’re trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again,” Smith explained to police as his logic for what he did next. Smith said he shot Kifer in the chest with his .22-caliber revolver, not once but several times. That was “more shots than I needed to,” Smith later told police. Kifer was still alive. Smith dragged her over to where he had left Brady’s body. The young woman gasped for air. Smith had a solution for that—what he later called “a good clean finishing shot.” He placed his gun underneath her chin and fired it “up into the cranium.” Smith said he acted out of fear. He was afraid Brady or Kifer might have a weapon. Minnesota state law allows homeowners to defend themselves and their property if they believe they are in danger. Smith acknowledged to police that neither of the two teens in his home had a weapon. The two bodies remained in the basement of Smith’s home overnight. The next morning, Smith seems to have become worried about how his actions might affect him. He called a neighbor on Friday and asked him if he knew lawyers, according to the complaint. Smith didn’t call the police, he later said, but asked the neighbor to call them. That call was placed at 1 p.m. on Nov. 23. Officers arrived at Smith’s home, where he showed them the bodies of the two teens in his basement. He was arrested. Appearing in court in Morrison County on Monday morning, Smith was charged with two counts of unpremeditated murder in the second degree. Bail was set at $2 million. “Mr. Smith intentionally killed two teenagers in his home in a manner that goes well beyond self-defense,” Morris County Attorney Brian Middendorf said on Monday. Many questions remain unanswered in the town of Little Falls, where Kifer worked at the Falls Cinema, according to her Facebook page. [link to www.thedailybeast.com] It sounds horrific, but there are some complex elements here: 1. Sounds like he told the whole truth. He could've made up an excuse about how they "came for me" even after being shot in the legs, and he had to blow them away 2. When someone is coming down stairs, you have to shoot before they get their gun on you, so yes he had to shoot them in the legs. 3. Now that he's shot them in the legs, he might have prevented them from running but he hasn't prevented them from pulling a gun out of their pockets and blowing him away. Would YOU sit around and wait to see if they have a gun? 4. A trained cop might know how to disarm a disabled crimina. But an average elderly citizen? No way! You can't expect this old guy to approach and get close enough to inspect and disarm the person. Even if the criminal doesn't have a gun on him, he could reach out and pull the old guy down and then beat him to death. Under the heat and fear of the moment, it's perfectly reasonable for the elderly citizen to shoot again! I would. Also. The laughing thing? If true, then aside from being creepy, it would tell me that the girl thinks she's going to get me back, and is about to pull a howitzer out of her bra to blow me away. |
| strikeforce1 (OP) User ID: 1349884  Canada11/28/2012 01:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It sounds horrific, but there are some complex elements here: Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6493463 1. Sounds like he told the whole truth. He could've made up an excuse about how they "came for me" even after being shot in the legs, and he had to blow them away 2. When someone is coming down stairs, you have to shoot before they get their gun on you, so yes he had to shoot them in the legs. 3. Now that he's shot them in the legs, he might have prevented them from running but he hasn't prevented them from pulling a gun out of their pockets and blowing him away. Would YOU sit around and wait to see if they have a gun? 4. A trained cop might know how to disarm a disabled crimina. But an average elderly citizen? No way! You can't expect this old guy to approach and get close enough to inspect and disarm the person. Even if the criminal doesn't have a gun on him, he could reach out and pull the old guy down and then beat him to death. Under the heat and fear of the moment, it's perfectly reasonable for the elderly citizen to shoot again! I would. Average elderly citizen?!? Are you fucking kidding? The guy is retired State Dept. Security a.k.a. Secret Service ffs! He has more tha a little training in disarming people, much less teenagers. And elderly? 64 yo? More like nearing retirement age for most folks. Not talking some backwoods 85 yo w/ a squirrel gun here. You don't go down to the corner gun store and pick one of these up: The United States Navy Mark 14 Enhanced Battle Rifle (EBR) is an American selective fire military rifle chambered for the 7.62x51mm NATO cartridge. It is a variant of the M14 battle rifle and was originally built for use with units of the United States Naval Special Warfare Command, such as the United States Navy SEALs and US Army 1st SFOD-D and task specific ODA units.[6][7] The EBRs are made with the intention of carrying out both designated marksman and CQB roles in combat. [link to en.wikipedia.org] This guy has serious training, serious skills and serious connections. He ain't no friggin hapless senior citizen. •*¨¨*•-:¦ Mahamedus erat porcus agricola ¦:-•*¨¨*• |
| strikeforce1 (OP) User ID: 1349884 Canada11/28/2012 01:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanksgiving Day Horror: Minnesota Teens Killed in Alleged Break-In Quoting: strikeforce1 Nicholas Brady, 17, and Haile Kifer, 18, were shot repeatedly and their bodies left for nearly 24 hours in Byron Smith’s house before police were called. He says he killed them out of fear they were armed robbers. Matthew DeLuca reports. On Thanksgiving Day around noon, Byron David Smith was sitting in the basement of his home on eight acres of land in Little Falls, Minn., a woodsy town of about 8,000 people, when he thought he heard intruders moving around upstairs. How Smith, 64, ended up killing two teenagers in cold blood that day, as he later told police, is laid out in icy detail (PDF) in a criminal complaint filed in the state’s Seventh District Court on Monday. Smith, who was worried the intruders might be armed, waited quietly downstairs with a Mini-14 rifle, a semi-automatic carbine, in his hand, according to the complaint, which details what he told police. He had a .22-caliber revolver strapped to his body, he said. He heard a window break, and later he showed police officers a broken window in his bedroom. He listened to footsteps above him, on the first floor of the house. Then he saw someone walking down the stairwell into the basement, where he sat, and a pair of legs became visible. Then he fired. Twice. The person he shot was Nicholas Brady, a 17-year-old who also used the last name Schaeffel. Brady was looking up at Smith after he fell down the stairs. Smith, who has been reported to be a former security officer for the U.S. State Department, told police he shot Brady in the face. The reason? “I want him dead,” Smith told officers. Smith put Brady on a tarp and dragged him into a basement workshop, leaving the body there, he said. Then he went back to his seat. He waited. It took a few minutes, but soon another pair of legs came down the basement stairs, It was Haile Kifer, a gymnast and diver for Little Falls High School. Smith told police he fired as the 18-year-old girl’s hips appeared. She too fell down the stairs. Smith’s Mini-14 jammed. Kifer laughed up at the man who would kill her. That made him mad, he said, even though it was only a short laugh because she was in so much pain. “If you’re trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again,” Smith explained to police as his logic for what he did next. Smith said he shot Kifer in the chest with his .22-caliber revolver, not once but several times. That was “more shots than I needed to,” Smith later told police. Kifer was still alive. Smith dragged her over to where he had left Brady’s body. The young woman gasped for air. Smith had a solution for that—what he later called “a good clean finishing shot.” He placed his gun underneath her chin and fired it “up into the cranium.” Smith said he acted out of fear. He was afraid Brady or Kifer might have a weapon. Minnesota state law allows homeowners to defend themselves and their property if they believe they are in danger. Smith acknowledged to police that neither of the two teens in his home had a weapon. The two bodies remained in the basement of Smith’s home overnight. The next morning, Smith seems to have become worried about how his actions might affect him. He called a neighbor on Friday and asked him if he knew lawyers, according to the complaint. Smith didn’t call the police, he later said, but asked the neighbor to call them. That call was placed at 1 p.m. on Nov. 23. Officers arrived at Smith’s home, where he showed them the bodies of the two teens in his basement. He was arrested. Appearing in court in Morrison County on Monday morning, Smith was charged with two counts of unpremeditated murder in the second degree. Bail was set at $2 million. “Mr. Smith intentionally killed two teenagers in his home in a manner that goes well beyond self-defense,” Morris County Attorney Brian Middendorf said on Monday. Many questions remain unanswered in the town of Little Falls, where Kifer worked at the Falls Cinema, according to her Facebook page. [link to www.thedailybeast.com] It sounds horrific, but there are some complex elements here: 1. Sounds like he told the whole truth. He could've made up an excuse about how they "came for me" even after being shot in the legs, and he had to blow them away 2. When someone is coming down stairs, you have to shoot before they get their gun on you, so yes he had to shoot them in the legs. 3. Now that he's shot them in the legs, he might have prevented them from running but he hasn't prevented them from pulling a gun out of their pockets and blowing him away. Would YOU sit around and wait to see if they have a gun? 4. A trained cop might know how to disarm a disabled crimina. But an average elderly citizen? No way! You can't expect this old guy to approach and get close enough to inspect and disarm the person. Even if the criminal doesn't have a gun on him, he could reach out and pull the old guy down and then beat him to death. Under the heat and fear of the moment, it's perfectly reasonable for the elderly citizen to shoot again! I would. Also. The laughing thing? If true, then aside from being creepy, it would tell me that the girl thinks she's going to get me back, and is about to pull a howitzer out of her bra to blow me away. If he's not outright making that up about the laughing he's prolly confusing shrieks of horror for laughing. •*¨¨*•-:¦ Mahamedus erat porcus agricola ¦:-•*¨¨*• |
| Epic Beard Guy User ID: 26240425 United States11/28/2012 01:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The first one was self defense, anyone would do the same when an intruder comes looking for them. The execution of the girl was obviously murder. But, that does not excuse the fact that they broke into his house, and went looking for him. In the same situation, I would assume they were armed also. Two stupid kids made a fatal mistake, and the home owner killed one in self defense, then murdered a girl. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 1219974 United States11/28/2012 01:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The first one was self defense, anyone would do the same when an intruder comes looking for them. The execution of the girl was obviously murder. But, that does not excuse the fact that they broke into his house, and went looking for him. In the same situation, I would assume they were armed also. Two stupid kids made a fatal mistake, and the home owner killed one in self defense, then murdered a girl. Quoting: Epic Beard Guy I said it once and will say it again. When kids play adult games, they should expect adult consequences. You say he murdered the girl, well, how do you reset the incident where the boy killed was legitimate but not for the girl? They were both there at the same time with the same intent. Once things went wrong for them, it was too late to make it all stop. She, as tragic as it may be, got what she got. A little fore thought beforehand on her part would have went a long way. |
| strikeforce1 (OP) User ID: 1349884 Canada11/28/2012 02:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Apparently drugs and other items from a previous robbery were found in the teens' car after the shooting. The source is not allowed here but google 'Little Falls shootings: Drugs, other items reported stolen found in car teens used' to find it. Go figure. •*¨¨*•-:¦ Mahamedus erat porcus agricola ¦:-•*¨¨*• |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 10372663 United States11/28/2012 02:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | In cold blood? REALLY??? That language tells me he went out of his way to kill two unsuspecting individuals but that's not the case here. THEY ROBBED HIS HOUSE!!!!! That makes them first not innocent and not unsuspecting of problems. Second criminals!!! IN COLD BLOOD?? I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 27811635 United States11/28/2012 02:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If I am a juror: Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15091083 As for unpremeditated murder in the 2nd degree of the male = Not Guilty. As for the same charge with regard to the female = Guilty. The situation had changed significantly between the two deaths, and the second person (female) was killed execution style, when no further fear for his life could be demonstrated. He'll go to jail for killing the girl, and the lapse in judgement when he didn't call the cops. I think if someone breaks into your home, your sanctuary, it should be legal to torture, rape, or do anything you damn well please to them... so you would've raped the bitch before the pigs got there, huh? figures but then you don't get any pussy anyways....LOL |
| BRIEF User ID: 381742 United States11/28/2012 05:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If I am a juror: Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15091083 As for unpremeditated murder in the 2nd degree of the male = Not Guilty. As for the same charge with regard to the female = Guilty. The situation had changed significantly between the two deaths, and the second person (female) was killed execution style, when no further fear for his life could be demonstrated. He'll go to jail for killing the girl, and the lapse in judgement when he didn't call the cops. I think if someone breaks into your home, your sanctuary, it should be legal to torture, rape, or do anything you damn well please to them... so you would've raped the bitch before the pigs got there, huh? figures but then you don't get any pussy anyways....LOL I didn't say I would torture or rape, but I don't think it should be taken away as a legal option...guess you don't know I have children, retard. I never forgive and I never forget I am a licensed firearm holder. I will, under protection of law, use lethal force if attacked. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 27590487 United States11/28/2012 05:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 9231012 United States11/28/2012 06:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | What say you? Justified self-defense, or cold blooded murder? I don't consider a "nice, clean finishing shot" to an incapacitated teenage girl's head to be "self defense". This fucker I think should get what's coming to him with the murder 2 charge. Sure the teens shouldn't have broken into the guy's house but one shot, fall down the stairs, and call the fucking cops, don't blow their fucking heads off motherfucker! Quoting: strikeforce1 If you only injure them they will sue and take your house...but he screwed up in many ways...he should have killed them and called the cops and claimed self defense... ^This^ If anyone even under the age of 10 breaks in on me I'm going to glock their ass dead, survivors sue. Why don't all these concerned parents and schools tell the kids people like me will kill them if found messing in my house or messing with my car. It's legal in Texas to shoot someone over our vehicles or almost any property. My X kicked out his apartment screen window and popped off some rounds at someone poking tacks into the side of his new racing slick tires of a race car on his car trailer. I rushed down to see some 6 yr old kid that was in shock, breathing hard and pissed his pants..Apparently never been shot at before, then realized what was happening.....Too funny! We couldn't see how small or big he was because he was on the trailer in a crouched position. No charges ever came of it....Gotta Love Texas laws! |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 610727  Australia11/28/2012 06:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | The guy went too far by finishing them off like that. Having said that, I have ZERO mercy for the two intruders. FUCK people who break the law but then expect everyone else to follow the law when dealing with them. I'm glad they're dead. (and yes, I have children of my own) |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 28314857 United States11/28/2012 06:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Laughing User ID: 15405508 United States11/28/2012 07:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
