Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 2,632 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 1,551,466
Pageviews Today: 2,080,186Threads Today: 519Posts Today: 10,314
04:41 PM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture

 Thread Locked 
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
11/06/2013 02:30 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Still, the thread will remain even if my ban immunity runs out next week. Given all the red I get from members who never identify themselves, it would take a miracle to have enough green to buy immunity for another month. I'm sure the critics will do everything in their power to oppose that and be rid of me.

Keep, I don't understand this what is ban immunity etc. etc. ? Can you explain
Thanks and keep looking up
Ed
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35143314


Members can "buy" various things if they have built up enough "green karma". It takes 25 to buy ban immunity for one month, meaning my IPN will not be swept away with others if they ban a whole range of them. And it isn't determined by the quantity of green karma I have now, but by how much has not been used before or been offset by red karma.

And as always, my good friend, thank you, and I will certainly keep looking up.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35143314
United States
11/06/2013 02:44 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Does this mean the entire thread will be deleted ?
Ed
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 43128129
United States
11/06/2013 02:46 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
I am not a professional writer here OP. I understand you feel under attack so I can see how you might lean to misinterpret what I wrote as judgment.

The scenario I wrote would be future, so any repentance needed by anyone who was decieved by satan would be future as well. What I meant was that should anyone find them in that situation that they could repent. As even that sin can be forgiven up until either death or the real change occurs.

Thanks for expanding on your view of the falling away. I don't think these views complement the subject at hand but can see how you do.
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
11/06/2013 02:48 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Does this mean the entire thread will be deleted ?
Ed
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35143314


No, it would mean I would be unable to even see anything in the whole message board, so of course I wouldn't be able to post anywhere either, including my own threads. Sometimes these bans last several months at a time, and start again after only a few days.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
11/06/2013 02:50 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
I am not a professional writer here OP. I understand you feel under attack so I can see how you might lean to misinterpret what I wrote as judgment.

The scenario I wrote would be future, so any repentance needed by anyone who was decieved by satan would be future as well. What I meant was that should anyone find them in that situation that they could repent. As even that sin can be forgiven up until either death or the real change occurs.

Thanks for expanding on your view of the falling away. I don't think these views complement the subject at hand but can see how you do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43128129

Thanks for clarifying.

I'm not sure how one's understanding of "apostasia" is not applicable to the topic. It's really a critical point in the passage Paul wrote.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35143314
United States
11/06/2013 02:53 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Well that really sucks!!!!! Is there anything I can do to prevent this from happening? For a free speech forum this is unbelievable
Ed
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
11/06/2013 02:57 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Well that really sucks!!!!! Is there anything I can do to prevent this from happening? For a free speech forum this is unbelievable
Ed
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35143314


Not that I know of. It's really just a matter of money. These "IP bans" are simply punishment for failing to pay for an upgrade. The more posts you have, the more often the bans happen. The only way I can stay here is to hope I have 25 more green karma than red in any given month. But unless I break forum rules, they won't delete my threads.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35143314
United States
11/06/2013 03:06 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
How do you receive green karma ? And how can I support you? This is a very important thread and you need to be able to continue to comment
Ed
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
11/06/2013 03:10 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
How do you receive green karma ? And how can I support you? This is a very important thread and you need to be able to continue to comment
Ed
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35143314


Awww... you're such a nice guy, Ed! hf

You have to be a member, I think. You click on the green hand doing the "thumbs up" and it pops up a window where you type a short reason for the karma, and then hit Enter and it adds to the other person's total. You can only give the same member one karma vote per week.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 43128129
United States
11/06/2013 03:18 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
OP If you get rolled into an ISP ban just request an unban associated with your free account. Sometimes you need to ask a couple times via the form but they will typically unban you while logged in.

I will have to look at my Greens and some others to confirm what Paul wrote is "departure" and not departure from the faith. Still the subject in this passage is the return of Christ and the events that immedialty preceded His return.

All those signs are future yet still and the "departure" as it is written in context happens before our gathering together unto Christ. So in my mind this departure does not fit in the context of the change.

I read it as ALL are changed from corruptible body to inncoruptable body when Christ returns. All this that died in Christ or otherwise have already put on incorruption. Mortality or immortality of the incorruptible body is another state of being of its own.

Not being a smartass here, but If satan fiengs a change using his angels as the ones that "made it". Then if we believe that only those "in Christ" are changed we might think we had somehow fell short amd now had been left behind.

The devil is going to be revealed of his disguise on earth before we gather back to Christ. That we have to agree on as its clearly written.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35143314
United States
11/06/2013 03:19 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Ok let's. see what we condo about this
Ed
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35143314
United States
11/06/2013 03:20 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Ok let see what we can do about this
Ed
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
11/06/2013 03:30 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
OP If you get rolled into an ISP ban just request an unban associated with your free account. Sometimes you need to ask a couple times via the form but they will typically unban you while logged in.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43128129

I've tried that before, but it doesn't always work. And they don't tell you why. But if God wants me here, he'll make it happen.


I will have to look at my Greens and some others to confirm what Paul wrote is "departure" and not departure from the faith. Still the subject in this passage is the return of Christ and the events that immedialty preceded His return.
 Quoting:

I use the Liddell/Scott Greek/English Lexicon primarily. Many people cite Strong's but don't realize that it is limited to how the KJV renders the words. I'm not familiar with Greens. But I do know that the early English translations used "departure" rather than the KJV's transliteration.

All those signs are future yet still and the "departure" as it is written in context happens before our gathering together unto Christ. So in my mind this departure does not fit in the context of the change.
 Quoting:

Our gathering is the Departure, in my opinion. Paul wrote 2 Thes. to debunk a forgery that had claimed they missed the Departure and would now be entering the Tribulation... much like many people teach today. The fact that the people were disturbed about the forgery is evidence for this, since no one would be upset if they had missed the Tribulation. Paul was writing to reassure them that no such thing had happened, and to remind them of the sequence of events. And then he told them to "comfort each other with these words". Nobody would be comforted to be told they would surely suffer through the Tribulation.


I read it as ALL are changed from corruptible body to inncoruptable body when Christ returns. All this that died in Christ or otherwise have already put on incorruption. Mortality or immortality of the incorruptible body is another state of being of its own.
 Quoting:

Both the dead and the living in Christ will be transformed from mortal to immortal. Paul speaks at length about the various "kinds of flesh" to make the point that what dies is not like what it will be when it is made alive. So the dead have not yet put on incorruption but are without bodies until the Rapture.


Not being a smartass here, but If satan fiengs a change using his angels as the ones that "made it". Then if we believe that only those "in Christ" are changed we might think we had somehow fell short amd now had been left behind.
 Quoting:

I find this scenario highly improbable. As I explained before, we who are in Christ will have no choice about the matter. Jesus will meet us in the air and take us to heaven, whether we're ready or not, and we will not have to choose or discern anything. So it follows that if someone appears and claims to be Jesus, yet we're still on earth in our mortal bodies, they are the impostor. Not even angels posing as transformed believers can give us immortal bodies.


The devil is going to be revealed of his disguise on earth before we gather back to Christ. That we have to agree on as its clearly written.
 Quoting:

I disagree. The AC cannot be revealed until after The Departure, as it is clearly written.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
11/06/2013 03:42 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Ok let see what we can do about this
Ed
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35143314


hf

Whatever God wants, he will make happen.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35143314
United States
11/06/2013 03:55 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Started a new thread

How do we keep this forum open for free speech


I have been following a thread on this forum for a couple of months by "
Keep to the code" about this persons views on the pre trib rapture. There has been some good freewheeling debate and some very good information and I have been greatly blessed by. There have also been some very vicious attacks by those that disagree with the pre trib viewpoint.
Now it looks like because of some ridiculous rules about karma that I really don't quite understand its possible that this person will be banned from posting on the thread " For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture"
I would like to ask all of you, weather you agree or disagree with this persons views, to support free speech on this forum and supply the
needed green karma that would allow "keep to the code " to be able to continue to comment and defend that thread!
Thank you in advance
Ed

Hope this helps
Ed
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 43128129
United States
11/06/2013 03:55 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Yes Greens interlinear. The four volume set is nice. You might look into it.

In the preface it documents the sources of the Hebrew and Greek texts contained within as the essentally the same as those the KJV translators used for thier translation. KJV is very good overall but misses the mark in a few places.. For instance translating Passover as Easter in Acts 12:4.
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
11/06/2013 03:57 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Started a new thread

How do we keep this forum open for free speech


I have been following a thread on this forum for a couple of months by "
Keep to the code" about this persons views on the pre trib rapture. There has been some good freewheeling debate and some very good information and I have been greatly blessed by. There have also been some very vicious attacks by those that disagree with the pre trib viewpoint.
Now it looks like because of some ridiculous rules about karma that I really don't quite understand its possible that this person will be banned from posting on the thread " For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture"
I would like to ask all of you, weather you agree or disagree with this persons views, to support free speech on this forum and supply the
needed green karma that would allow "keep to the code " to be able to continue to comment and defend that thread!
Thank you in advance
Ed

Hope this helps
Ed
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35143314

I hope so, thanks. hf

But to clarify, banning isn't about free speech except on certain topics, and GLP doesn't seem to have a problem with most Christian threads. It's all about not paying to upgrade.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
11/06/2013 03:58 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Yes Greens interlinear. The four volume set is nice. You might look into it.

In the preface it documents the sources of the Hebrew and Greek texts contained within as the essentally the same as those the KJV translators used for thier translation. KJV is very good overall but misses the mark in a few places.. For instance translating Passover as Easter in Acts 12:4.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 43128129


Interlinears are great study tools, but again, they are constrained by the need to try and pick the part of the semantic range they feel is best.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35143314
United States
11/06/2013 04:03 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
We'll then how much does an upgrade cost? And how long is it good for?
Ed
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
11/06/2013 04:05 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
We'll then how much does an upgrade cost? And how long is it good for?
Ed
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35143314


Not sure about either, but I think it's something like 10 bucks a month. But please don't feel the need to pay; my reasons for not paying aren't just financial.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34104390
United States
11/06/2013 04:09 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
7th Seal.......6th trumpet judgment.

People have already taken the mark and sold themselves out to satan. They will not repent.


Then the sixth angel sounded: And I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates."

So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind. Now the number of the army of the horsemen was two hundred million, and I heard the number of them.

And thus I saw the horses in the vision; those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone.

By these three plagues a THIRD OF MANKIND WAS KILLED----by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths. For their power is in their mouth and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents, having heads; and with them they do harm.

But THE REST OF MANKIND, WHO WERE NOT KILLED BY THESE PLAGUES, DID NOT REPENT of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver ,brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk;

And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts. (Rev. 9: 13-21)


The population of the world has been under severe wrath from God for the first 6 trumpet judgments......yet they still will not repent. The reason is simple.....they have already taken the mark and given themselves over to satan.


The abomination of desolation and persecution by the man of evil took place earlier........prior to God's wrath.


The midpoint of Daniel's 70th week is not at the 7th trumpet as you have claimed. With just the 6th trumpet.....one third of the world's population has recently perished......and people are still shaking their fist at God. They will not repent.


An during the 5th trumpet......they were tormented by locusts for 5 months......receiving terrible stings......experiencing much pain....seeking death but not allowed.


They will not repent. Why? They have already received the mark and given themselves over to satan.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49144885


Fantastic post!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34104390


Sorry for the confusion OP, my apologies. I guess what I was agreeing with here is that believers who think they will be here until the end of the Tribulation when Christ returns (with the belief that there is no pre-trib rapture) doesn't jive with scripture in that the ones at the end are still not repenting and shaking their fists at God. They have all taken the mark. "But the rest of mankind..." This means that there are no more believers left on earth...these people did not repent. The believers have been either raptured or beheaded. There is no one to "rapture" in this scenario. That's what I meant. This, if anything, still points to a pre-trib rapture. I also believe there is the possibility that after the anti-Christ is revealed that we could be out of here soon after that...but no mid or late trib rapture.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 34104390
United States
11/06/2013 04:15 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Also, I am to understand that the Abomination of Desolation happens exactly at mid trib since the Anti-Christ confirms a covenant with many at the beginning and midway through breaks the agreement and walks into the temple, proclaiming to be God and demands worship, etc....(Abomination of Desolation)

Is that right? At what point does the wrath of God judgments start in relationship to this point? I thought after but you do such a good job laying things out I would appreciate the comments.
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
11/06/2013 04:52 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Sorry for the confusion OP, my apologies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34104390

No problem. hf


I guess what I was agreeing with here is that believers who think they will be here until the end of the Tribulation when Christ returns (with the belief that there is no pre-trib rapture) doesn't jive with scripture in that the ones at the end are still not repenting and shaking their fists at God. They have all taken the mark. "But the rest of mankind..." This means that there are no more believers left on earth...these people did not repent. The believers have been either raptured or beheaded. There is no one to "rapture" in this scenario. That's what I meant. This, if anything, still points to a pre-trib rapture. I also believe there is the possibility that after the anti-Christ is revealed that we could be out of here soon after that...but no mid or late trib rapture.
 Quoting:

And if the Rapture is post-trib, no one is left in a mortal body to repopulate the earth during the Millennium.


Also, I am to understand that the Abomination of Desolation happens exactly at mid trib since the Anti-Christ confirms a covenant with many at the beginning and midway through breaks the agreement and walks into the temple, proclaiming to be God and demands worship, etc....(Abomination of Desolation)

Is that right? At what point does the wrath of God judgments start in relationship to this point? I thought after but you do such a good job laying things out I would appreciate the comments.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 34104390


Yes, mid-trib, at the 7th trumpet, after the 2 witnesses are killed and rise again.

Some say the wrath of God isn't until after the Bowls; some say it's at the start of the Bowls; some say it starts at the 6th Seal. My view is that if a judgment only happens as a result of God ordering it, it's the wrath of God. And since the Lamb is also God, and the Lamb opens the Seals, and the judgments of the Seals do not happen without the Lamb ordering them, then the wrath of God begins with the first Seal.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 11/06/2013 05:40 PM
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
11/06/2013 09:59 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Take a peek here: Thread: Is the 6th SEAL next??

Notice something?

No nasty comments yet. Plenty of positive comments. It seems that as long as a person doesn't believe the rapture predates the seals, everybody's okay with that.

So the thing people hate is apparently not the idea of escaping the wrath of God, but when.

Which makes the bitter attacks on pre-trib all the more telling. If people are okay with escaping, then what is it they hate and fear so much about the timing?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 35143314
United States
11/07/2013 07:07 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
bump
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
11/07/2013 07:24 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
bump
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35143314


Hey Ed, how's it going?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 49472418
United States
11/07/2013 10:12 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
"Sorry for the confusion OP, my apologies. I guess what I was agreeing with here is that believers who think they will be here until the end of the Tribulation when Christ returns (with the belief that there is no pre-trib rapture) doesn't jive with scripture in that the ones at the end are still not repenting and shaking their fists at God. They have all taken the mark. "But the rest of mankind..." This means that there are no more believers left on earth...these people did not repent. The believers have been either raptured or beheaded. There is no one to "rapture" in this scenario. That's what I meant. This, if anything, still points to a pre-trib rapture. I also believe there is the possibility that after the anti-Christ is revealed that we could be out of here soon after that...but no mid or late trib rapture."


***************************************


Yes they all are shaking their fists at God after enduring the six trumpet judgements.


But the OP puts the midpoint of Daniel's week at the 7th trumpet. The midpoint is where the abomination is set up and the man of evil persecute and try to get people to take the mark.


This makes no sense............as the whole world has already given themselves over the satan as indicated at the end of the 6th trumpet judgment. There is no one left to convert to the dark side.
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
11/07/2013 10:18 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Yes they all are shaking their fists at God after enduring the six trumpet judgements.


But the OP puts the midpoint of Daniel's week at the 7th trumpet. The midpoint is where the abomination is set up and the man of evil persecute and try to get people to take the mark.


This makes no sense............as the whole world has already given themselves over the satan as indicated at the end of the 6th trumpet judgment. There is no one left to convert to the dark side.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 49472418


On what do you base this? Nothing in the 6th trumpet indicates that absolutely everyone has turned to Satan by then. If that were the case, who is the Beast fighting against and persecuting? His own people? 3.5 years of fighting those who already belong to him? Or how short do you think the Bowls are?

Also, what about 16:15 where Jesus says, ""Look, I am coming like a thief! Blessed are those who stay alert and keep their clothes on, so that they don't walk around naked and people see their indecency." Who is he talking about, since this is during the Bowl judgments?

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 11/07/2013 10:26 PM
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 49472418
United States
11/07/2013 10:45 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
"It is YOU who demand that I accept YOUR views and YOU who are quite upset, even enraged, that I refuse. Talk about insanity!"


*******************************


It is not all about you OP. There are other readers who stop by.........and perhaps do not even post anything......just read.


I for one am not posting in the expectation of changing your mind one bit..........as that can only come from God.


I only post for the benefit of other people who might be reading this thread.......to show them that there are alternative viewpoints.


No need to feel like a picked on minority person........as the vast majority of church goers adhere to your views.


The position that I believe is correct is known as Pre-Wrath.......and only a tiny minority know about it and believe it to be true.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 49472418
United States
11/07/2013 10:53 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
"On what do you base this? Nothing in the 6th trumpet indicates that absolutely everyone has turned to Satan by then."


*******************************


5th trumpet...........humans stung and tormented by locusts for five months.

6th trumpet.........large army released; one third of mankind killed.


Following this.....regarding the survivors:


"But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent.........(Rev. 9: 20)

News