For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture

The entire world save Gods election and His two witnesses will have been decieved by the spurious messiah having come in peace and prosperity.his war against the saint is more spiritual in nature until the very end when He loses his cool having been tormented continual by the witnesses and Gods election scattered mostly abroad having the Holy Spirit bear testament against him in thier trials.

These trials with the Holy Spirit speaking through the election will turn some to and/or back to God once they realize they have been decieved. So satan starts losing ground he has made and loses his cool, kills the two witnesses and kicks off the two final battles in hopes to quell the headway Gods election is making. Of course God fights these tel final battles himself. And Christ returns at the sounding of the 7th trump just 3.5 days after the witness are killed.

When Christ makes reference to those that are naked it is reference to all those that have no righteous acts under thier belt having been wholly decieved. It is reference to after the change when all are in spiritual bodies.

"If ye are prepared, ye shall not fear"

One of the BEST scripture quotes ever

Thank you, mister obvious.

Try to remember what I was responding to. A false charge, especially one that the accuser made being true of them instead, deserves a response with the truth.

And if it's not all about me, THEN START YOUR OWN THREAD. Why are you still here attacking me? You are NOT here to change other people's minds; they're all reading the ANTI pre-trib threads. You're only here because you want to shout me down.



Baloney. Your view is clearly the MAJORITY in this place. Try and find the same vitriol spewed at other threads espousing other timings for the Rapture.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 11/08/2013 06:50 AM

On what do you base this? Nothing in the 6th trumpet indicates that absolutely everyone has turned to Satan by then. If that were the case, who is the Beast fighting against and persecuting? His own people? 3.5 years of fighting those who already belong to him? Or how short do you think the Bowls are?

Also, what about 16:15 where Jesus says, ""Look, I am coming like a thief! Blessed are those who stay alert and keep their clothes on, so that they don't walk around naked and people see their indecency." Who is he talking about, since this is during the Bowl judgments?

Not everyone takes the mark. The scripture says "WHOEVER" takes it; that means not all do.

And none of this means nobody is saved during that time. What is the purpose of witnesses, or eagles or angels flying around spreading the gospel of the kingdom, if no one is left without the mark that doomed them? And who would be left in their mortal bodies to repopulate the earth during the millennium?

Your choice of gif indicates you think this is funny.

It's not.

Christians should always be prepared, since Jesus promised persecution... which can also come in the form of mockers who despise people who don't agree with their particular view of eschatology. So yes, being prepared means having no fear... and none of you have made me afraid. My confidence is in Jesus and his righteousness, not my own. Those who are so eager to endure the wrath of God rely on their own strength and preparation.

Also take a look at how my thread is rated. Then try to tell me my view is in the majority.

Of course, it could be that one person who keeps a revolving IPN and votes it down every day. But you'd have to prove that.

Anyone can repent at anytime before they either die or are changed at the end when Christ returns at the 7th trump. Will many? Likely not as God has plans to redeem many during the millineum as it it is written in the later chapters of Ezekiel.

The purpose of Gods witnesses is to bring truth and also provide that little help that Gods election will require in thier trials when each is thrown in prison 10 days.

There will no longer be corruptible flesh bodies upon the earth after Christ returns and the change occurs. All will be in incorruptible bodies but this clearly is not immortality as many will still refuse to Love God and each other after being taught the difference between the holy and profane for 1000 years. These same souls will follow satan into the lake of fire which is destruction not torment.

One really needs to look close with understanding the rest of what is written in the book to understand what is meant in Revelation 14:11. God is not like satan to torment souls for ever and ever. This is something other than the smoke of the soul rising up.

We talked the other day about the true meaning of apostacia with some texts translating it as a falling away and others as a departure.

This is where wisdom in the rest of Gods book brings understanding to the meaning so we don't follow the traditions of men's teachings and instead follow Gods instruction.

The Old Testament is chock loaded full of examples of how things would be in the end times and how things are today. Those examples witness for the New Testament sometimes scripture for scripture and certainly by example to the T. That is how God teaches and provides wisdom, which is by example otherwise none would never understand and recieve His seal in thier mind.

Corruption and incorruption are opposites, just as mortal and immortal are opposites. To be immortal is to be incorruptible. As Paul said,

There must be mortal (corruptible) bodies on the earth to repopulate it during the Millennium. Otherwise there would be no one for Satan to deceive at the end, when all of the rebels are killed by Jesus and thrown into the Lake of Fire.

I will not debate Universalism in this thread. This is about the timing of the Rapture.

(I realize you think that one MUST be a Universalist in order to interpret scripture "properly", but Uni itself is subject to debate. I will only give you a link to a quick rebuttal at my blog. I will not discuss it further here.)
[link to www.fether.net]

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 11/08/2013 10:13 AM

As I said, there has been a falling away from the faith since the apostles died. No one disputes that the church today is largely dead on its feet. But the context of Paul's letter to the Thessalonians is not about heresy or defection, but about what they should expect to happen before the Day of the Lord.

This is on topic of the pretrib rapture as the theory use these topics to build its foundation.

There a two places for souls right now in the kingdom of God. Righteous in Christ go one place and the unrighteous another. There is a gulf that separates them. Although the scripture you quoted may sound like immortality it is not. It's talking about glory and power of the spiritual body which has nothing to do with the righteousness of ones soul in Christ.

But where is it written that there must be corruptable bodies on the earth to repopulate it? If that is the case then how is the lion going to lay with the lamb if it still needs to eat flesh to sustain itself? There will be no more sun for light in the eternity to sustain this world as we know it today. God has much more grand plans in store for the eternity.

The timing of the rapture does not depend on believing that God will not send anyone to eternal torment.



The unrighteous do not enter the kingdom of God in any place at all. You're thinking of how it was before the cross, in the account of the rich man and Lazarus. But Jesus "led captivity captive" and now "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord". So the unrighteous are still in Hades, while the righteous are in heaven with God.

The scripture I quoted states quite clearly that we will be given immortal bodies. Paul couldn't have stated it any more clearly.



Look at Rev. 20:7–8

Tell me how that can happen to incorruptible bodies.

Also, there is nothing saying the lion must continue to eat the lamb. And remember, immortality is only specified for people anyway; we are not told if the animals will also be immortal.

To clarify. Verses above 50 you have quoted speak to incorruptable bodies. It is only below 50 that immortality is brought into the discussion and this has reference to the 1st resurrection. Which are those, specifically Gods election, that remain true to Christ and do not apostacise to satan up until all are changed and the mystery of God is revealed to all.

The rest also in incorruptable bodies, can participate in the 2nd resurrection after being tested by satan once more at the end of the millennium.

All that are still alive when Christ returns are changed to bodies that no longer age. Some are graced with immortality right there on the spot, but not the majority.

God is a consuming fire. After the great white throne of judgment any in incorruptable bodies that still cling to evil rudiments are going to burnt up and perish forever as of they never existed. Just gone. Incorruption is not immortality.

You're trying to dissect the context into two parts and create novel definitions for the words. Paul continually contrasts mortal/immortal and perishable/imperishable throughout. A close look at the Greek words shows that the only difference is in whether the body is still in the process of dying or has already died. Aging is what mortals do.

So contextually and grammatically, I reject your interpretation of the passage to somehow make the words mean something other than what they say. And to use your own reasoning, "If you don't have this right, you also won't have eschatology right".

Points have been made so I don't mean to debate up your thread anymore.

But consider satan and his fallen angels do not age. They too are in incorruptable bodies right at this very moment. The elements of this earth can do them no harm. Satan is still in heaven even, about to be kicked out. There is fighting going on there but it's about to go silent.

God is a consuming fire. He can certainly burn up and consume away an incorruptable body at anytime He so choses. And that is exactly what He will do to satan and his remnant of fallen angels, as well as those that while in incorruptable bodies having been taught full truth, still chose to follow satan in rebellion against God.

Satan and his fallen angels were never human and never mortal. Even human souls are immortal. But our bodies are not. Only people and animals have corruptible bodies, so Satan, the fallen angels, and the demons have no bodies to burn up.

Hey Ed, how's it going?


Well sense you asked

My wife of 38 years lost her battle with the beast that the doctors call melanoma about 6 months ago. I am absolutely sure she is with Jesus as Paul says "to be absent from the body is to be present with The Lord "
I guess my question is do you have any insights as to what form that mite be? I know it must be some sort of spirit body, so I wonder about things like, do they see and hear, can they talk to each other. I think they must be able to do these things and a lot more. I have studied the story of laserus and the rich man but it seems to me that was more of a place for old testament saints than new and that Jesus led them to heaven. So do you know of anywhere in the bible that describes what it's like for them now?
I know this is not really related to the topic of pre trib but you seem to have an extraordinary grasp of the scriptures and my heart is very heavy

I'm so anxious to see my wife again

As ever keep looking up
Ed

Ed, I'm so sorry. May God soothe and comfort you.

Yes, she is surely with Jesus. It's my understanding that people there don't have bodies but can recognize each other. When my grandpa was dying, he would tell of people he knew from years ago who were waiting for him and talking to him. He eventually asked grandma to stop praying for him to get better so he could stay there. So I do believe they are recognizable but not physical, and that they are enjoying themselves and probably speculating as we do about the time we will all be reunited.

The Bible doesn't really say much explicitly though. We get a glimpse here and there in Revelation, but not much on a personal basis. In those glimpses, we do know that they are aware of this life, and I do believe we will all remember at least parts of it. Personally, I'm hoping we all get a Q and A session; there are so many mysteries in this life that I'd really like the answers for. Whatever they're doing in the meantime, I'm sure it's awesome and indescribable.

In the past decade or so, we've lost my dad, aunt, and uncle, and my husband's dad, mom, and young niece. But my husband was given a dream in which he was promised his mom would be the last one. Since then, one of my sisters was diagnosed with stage IV ovarian cancer and we all considered it a death sentence. But I remembered the dream and clung to it, and several years later she is still cancer-free! Mom is still with us as well, though she is in her mid-80s. I am convinced from all this that the time is very short in order for the promise in the dream to hold--- as I'm sure it will.

We're all very tired of this life, of Satan's kingdom of grief and suffering. One of the many reasons my hope is in Jesus' return is so Satan's kingdom will finally end soon after and the suffering of the innocent and righteous will stop. I pray that we will not have to endure separation from our loved ones much longer, and that in the meantime God will grant you and all who grieve a measure of comfort and peace.

Also, Ed, feel free to email me from the Contact page at my blog: [link to www.fether.net] .

Keep
Thank you for your words of encouragement. I do have something that I want to share with you and i'll send t you at your web site the story of the dream I had about Linda tomorrow it is just extraordinary
Again god bless you and your family

Your friend in Christ
Ed

And as always, thank you for your encouragement. I look forward to hearing about your dream.

Ed,

I'm the AC who posted about Mary and Martha earlier in the thread.

My dad passed away a few years ago very suddenly and since I was out of state at the time, I never had the chance to say good-bye. We are, of course, prohibited from attempting to contact the dead through occult means, but I knew my Dad was saved and was with the Lord....

SO....I prayed and asked the Lord to please give a message to him (from me)....NO prohibition against that of which I am aware.

That night I had a brief dream of my dad in which he specifically replied to the message I had asked the Lord to pass on to him.

In short, the Lord graciously passed on my message to my Dad and even more graciously allowed him to respond with a message back to me which was way beyond my expectations and something I had certainly not asked for in prayer.

Rest assured.....the spirits of our saved loved ones are definitely with the Lord....they are in constant communication with Him and eagerly awaiting our arrival. They are every bit as "alive" and aware as we are...just physically separated from us for a short time. They are also aware of how much we are grieving and missing their physical presence with us.


I hope this brings you some comfort.

Thanks for sharing this. I hope we can all spend more time "comforting each other with these words" as the glorious day approaches. And I think Jesus is as eager to take us home as we are to see him.

Amen. May that glorious day be soon!

Wow thanks to you both for sharing and your compassion. This is a beautiful example of the body of Christ loving one another. I'm sure our Lord is smiling. I'm kind of overwhelm right now
Thanks Ed

It sure is. And it's such a welcome relief from the turmoil that has plagued this thread. Thank you both.

Oh you poor people who struggle with basic concepts because you lack knowledge freely given to those that believe the restored gospel.

Can you even properly define what a soul is and it's relation to spirit and body?

Who are you? And speaking of spirit, have you noticed what was going on here before your comment?

Please take your holier-than-thou attitude elsewhere. We are in no need of another "teacher" who wants to put us in our place.