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For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture

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Anonymous Coward
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Mongolia
05/27/2013 09:19 PM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Brothers and Sisters,

Please be aware that we are all saved by the Lord himself.
Not by our own knowledge.

Be at peace and give glory to the God of heaven and our Lord Jesus Christ.

May the Lord Jesus bless and keep you all

Amen.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18847658


"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." Mark 9:41

Forgetting God's Law is a Harsh Mistress The Whole World Wonders after "the Beast" System that:

* A: Gave us Sunday Worship (a false Sabbath)
* B: Gave us the Secret Rapture Theory
* C: Will cause the whole world to follow it, instead of God
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40631769


Of all the entities that should hate the teaching of the pre-trib rapture, it's the "Beast System". It wishes to rob us of "that blessed hope" and keep us from "keeping watch". It wants us to take our eyes off of Jesus and put them on the Beast instead, awaiting the revealing of the Beast instead of the arrival of the Christ. It makes Christians proud of their "prepping" and "self-reliance". And it makes them attack and slander their brothers and sisters.

Well, at least you slanderers keep my thread bumped so that more and more people will learn the truth of the pre-trib Rapture and be prepared.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode

You teach the Truth, brother! I'll witness to that.

Keep your torch lit in this little dark corner of the Internet! Some of us can see your Light.

Peace

Maranatha!

hf
Anonymous Coward
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05/27/2013 09:20 PM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
God has protected His people in terrible tribulation and persecution, this is His
way not the Rapture. You can't easily disregard calling this message false, Kevin is a Protestant prophet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213


I asked you to stop.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Why, others are disagreeing, your thread is going to your head silly girl. You
are closed to what Jesus is trying to teach you. Wake up friend. I'll post
Kevin's message in the other Rapture thread this evening.

God protects His people, He does not rapture them out, no death, no suffering.

You are misinterpreting the Final Judgment verses.
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
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05/27/2013 09:21 PM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
You teach the Truth, brother! I'll witness to that.

Keep your torch lit in this little dark corner of the Internet! Some of us can see your Light.

Peace

Maranatha!

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31473452


Thanks! God bless.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
05/27/2013 09:22 PM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
God has protected His people in terrible tribulation and persecution, this is His
way not the Rapture. You can't easily disregard calling this message false, Kevin is a Protestant prophet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213


I asked you to stop.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Why, others are disagreeing, your thread is going to your head silly girl. You
are closed to what Jesus is trying to teach you. Wake up friend. I'll post
Kevin's message in the other Rapture thread this evening.

God protects His people, He does not rapture them out, no death, no suffering.

You are misinterpreting the Final Judgment verses.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213


Stop.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20541213
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05/27/2013 09:24 PM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Oh my gosh, I was going to copy the May 2nd Message to Protestant
Kevin Barrett and it is gone! I just posted it, did I miss it? I put in red Our
Lord saying there is no rapture, it is a lie.

You can't take the truth, prayers for your conversion OP.

People, go to Kevin's site, it is the 2nd most recent message, May 2, 2013.

[link to www.hearhisheart.wordpress.com]
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
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05/27/2013 09:25 PM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Oh my gosh, I was going to copy the May 2nd Message to Protestant
Kevin Barrett and it is gone! I just posted it, did I miss it? I put in red Our
Lord saying there is no rapture, it is a lie.

You can't take the truth, prayers for your conversion OP.

People, go to Kevin's site, it is the 2nd most recent message, May 2, 2013.

[link to www.hearhisheart.wordpress.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213


What part of STOP is not clear to you?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20541213
United States
05/27/2013 09:27 PM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Oh my gosh, I was going to copy the May 2nd Message to Protestant
Kevin Barrett and it is gone! I just posted it, did I miss it? I put in red Our
Lord saying there is no rapture, it is a lie.

You can't take the truth, prayers for your conversion OP.

People, go to Kevin's site, it is the 2nd most recent message, May 2, 2013.

[link to www.hearhisheart.wordpress.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213


What part of STOP is not clear to you?
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


You removed Kevin's message, admit it. You are preaching a lie.
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
05/27/2013 09:28 PM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Oh my gosh, I was going to copy the May 2nd Message to Protestant
Kevin Barrett and it is gone! I just posted it, did I miss it? I put in red Our
Lord saying there is no rapture, it is a lie.

You can't take the truth, prayers for your conversion OP.

People, go to Kevin's site, it is the 2nd most recent message, May 2, 2013.

[link to www.hearhisheart.wordpress.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213


What part of STOP is not clear to you?
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


You removed Kevin's message, admit it. You are preaching a lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213


As a non-paying member, I CANNOT DELETE ANY POSTS, EVEN IN MY OWN THREAD.

Now who's the liar?
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31473452
Mongolia
05/27/2013 09:32 PM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
God has protected His people in terrible tribulation and persecution, this is His
way not the Rapture. You can't easily disregard calling this message false, Kevin is a Protestant prophet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213


I asked you to stop.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Why, others are disagreeing, your thread is going to your head silly girl. You
are closed to what Jesus is trying to teach you. Wake up friend. I'll post
Kevin's message in the other Rapture thread this evening.

God protects His people, He does not rapture them out, no death, no suffering.

You are misinterpreting the Final Judgment verses.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213

God has done both, at different times. God has in fact raptured before. He raptured Enoch before the Great Flood. He took Ezekiel before he died. There were even saints resurrected at the same time Yeshua was resurrected. Did they then live forever on earth after that? Doubtful. Even Noah was lifted up out of the flood. He did not have to endure it on the ground where everyone drowned. Even Lot and his family were rescued and taken out of Sodom before God's wrath fell on them. Yeshua was the first fruit of the resurrection. His example of going up to heaven before His Great and Terrible Day of Judgement was to come, is a foreshadow of what He's going to do to the church. Even John was taken up to heaven, which looks very much like a foreshadow of the rapture before the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week, commonly called the Tribulation.

While God never promised us a Rapture from life's trials and tribulations, neither did He promise us protection from them. Yeshua(Jesus) said we'll suffer persecutions, like He did. But He did not promise us God's wrath on us. Instead He promised that we'll be removed from His time of wrath upon a wicked and rebellious world. Why would our Father punish His children for the sins of the unbelieving world? His wrath is for them, not us.

Unless perhaps you feel like you are a part of this wicked and unbelieving world. This is not my home, I'm just passing through.

Peace
Keep2theCode (OP)

User ID: 20545539
United States
05/27/2013 09:34 PM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
God has protected His people in terrible tribulation and persecution, this is His
way not the Rapture. You can't easily disregard calling this message false, Kevin is a Protestant prophet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213


I asked you to stop.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Why, others are disagreeing, your thread is going to your head silly girl. You
are closed to what Jesus is trying to teach you. Wake up friend. I'll post
Kevin's message in the other Rapture thread this evening.

God protects His people, He does not rapture them out, no death, no suffering.

You are misinterpreting the Final Judgment verses.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213

God has done both, at different times. God has in fact raptured before. He raptured Enoch before the Great Flood. He took Ezekiel before he died. There were even saints resurrected at the same time Yeshua was resurrected. Did they then live forever on earth after that? Doubtful. Even Noah was lifted up out of the flood. He did not have to endure it on the ground where everyone drowned. Even Lot and his family were rescued and taken out of Sodom before God's wrath fell on them. Yeshua was the first fruit of the resurrection. His example of going up to heaven before His Great and Terrible Day of Judgement was to come, is a foreshadow of what He's going to do to the church. Even John was taken up to heaven, which looks very much like a foreshadow of the rapture before the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week, commonly called the Tribulation.

While God never promised us a Rapture from life's trials and tribulations, neither did He promise us protection from them. Yeshua(Jesus) said we'll suffer persecutions, like He did. But He did not promise us God's wrath on us. Instead He promised that we'll be removed from His time of wrath upon a wicked and rebellious world. Why would our Father punish His children for the sins of the unbelieving world? His wrath is for them, not us.

Unless perhaps you feel like you are a part of this wicked and unbelieving world. This is not my home, I'm just passing through.

Peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31473452


Nicely put. hf
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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05/27/2013 09:43 PM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Its one thing to have a so called "Scriptural basis" which is based on weddings and conjecture and a lot of guessing and HOPE..

But its quite another to have actual UNTWISTED plain as day PROOF..

HERE IT IS...

Scriptures that prove the post trib rapture.


The first thing I will say is to prove the post trib rapture you only need to show two things in scripture (although I will do much more than that in this post)

#1 that the 2nd coming is after the Tribulation, and

#2 that the rapture is at the 2nd coming.

(side note: the resurrection of the just is also at the post trib 2nd coming of Christ yet before the rapture, this is important to know as we move on)

So #1 The 2nd coming is after the tribulation
Matthew 24:29-31

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And (THEN)he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

There is no mistaking, the meaning of this verse, nor can you mistake when it will take place.

The coming of the Son of man is immediately after the tribulation of those day. Just to show that this is the Great Tribulation and just one tribulation of many lets start the text at verse 21 and read through verse 31.

Matthew 24:21-31
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days be shortened, there shall no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened.
23 then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.(Kinda hard to do..seeing as you think the ELECT wont BE here huh?)

25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall the coming of the Son of man be. (Yeah..REAL secret aint it??...NOT)
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.(Not a very secret event eh?)

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

There is no doubt that this is referring to The Great Tribulation and not just a tribulation. We also see that it is after the tribulation that Jesus returns. We also see that there is a gathering together of the elect at this point. Some argue that they are gathered from Heaven and not from Earth because they were raptured seven years earlier before the tribulation started. So I will now show in Mark 13:24-27, the sister scripture to Matthew 24:29-31 that they not only gathered from Heaven, but from Heaven and Earth.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

So we see that Jesus gathers the elect from Heaven and Earth at the end of the tribulation from Heaven'' the dead in Christ'' from Earth '' those that are still living''. We also see that this is the Great Tribulation not a tribulation as verse 19 shows

Mark 13:19 For in those day there shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

We can make the case from these scriptures that the resurrection of the just, and the rapture is after the tribulation. However that is not the point I am using them to make. The point is the second coming of Christ is after the Great Tribulation, and biblically you can clearly see that this is the case. Now I will show you that the rapture is at this post trib second coming.

#2 The rapture is at the 2nd coming of Christ (which per point 1 is post trib.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not preceed them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:(THE RESSURECTION OF THE JUST!)
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

There are two main things I would like you to notice about this verse. First ....that the dead in Christ rise first. This is important because, there will be scripture use later that speaks of the resurrection of the just happening at the second coming, and we need to realize that the living will not precede the dead but will be caught up after them. So if the resurrection of the just is post trib then the rapture would be as well. Secondly I will give you the timing of this event that all agree is the rapture.

Verse 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not preceed them which are asleep.

The rapture takes place at the coming of the Lord, which we have already shown is after the tribulation. I could stop right now this is all the proof we need, but I have more. By the way, some thing for you to notice if a pretrib teacher ever teaches on the rapture they will skip verse 15 and quote verse 16 and 17 only. Is this open deception or an over sight? I will let you decide.

1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward that they are Christ's at his coming.
We will all be resurrected and there will be an order. Jesus is first, that has already happen, and then those that are Christ's, those that have been saved (Christians) at His coming. There is no mention of a resurrection of the righteous between Jesus' resurrection and his second coming. As a matter of fact it says that those that belong to Christ will be resurrected at the post trib second coming. We saw in 1st Thessalonians that the dead are raised before the living are raptured. So if the resurrection of the dead in Christ is at the post trib second coming then the rapture has to be as well.

2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, bretheren. by the coming of the Lord and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled in spirit, nor by word, nor by letter from us, and the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there be a falling away first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

In verse 1 Paul is speaking of two events. the coming of the Lord or '' The second coming'' and the gathering together unto him or '' the resurrection of the just and or rapture''. In verse 3 we see that Paul says these two event happen on a singular day ''That day''. Also in verse 3 Paul writes that that day could not happen until after the falling away takes place and the anti christ is revealed. Some pretrib preachers go as far as to say the falling away is the rapture, teaching that the rapture must come before the second coming. However the greek word for falling away is ''apostasia'', which literally means a turning from the truth. So the church itself will turn from the truth (Seems the pre trib rapture doctrine is PROOF of this)and then the anti christ will be revealed and then (AND ONLY THEN)the rapture can take place, not before. This passage excludes the pretrib view because we know that the anti christ will not be revealed before the tribulation starts but AFTER!!!. Further more it proves the post trib view because it declares that the second coming and the rapture take place on the same day. These two events are not seven years apart, not three and a half years apart, not one year, one month or one day apart. They occur on the same exact day.

1st John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
When does Christ appear? At his post trib second coming. When shall we be like him? When we receive our heavenly bodies, which is at the resurrection of the just and or the rapture. So this verse actually says that we will be resurrected and or raptured to receive our heavenly immortal bodies at the post trib second coming. 
I think the scriptural evidence of a post trib rapture that I have presented so far is overwhelming.

BUT THERE IS MUCH MUCH MORE!!!!

Real quickly I will give three verses that state that we must endure until the very end to be saved.
Matthew 24:12-13, Mark 13:13, and Revelation 2:26.
Matthew 24:12-13
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

(NOTICE IT DIDNT SAY HE WHO ENDURES TO THE START..OR THE MIDDLE..BUT THE END..WHAT PART OF "END" DONT YOU GET YET?)

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Both of these passages say he that endures unto the end, shall be saved. Some teach that this means you must keep your faith until your death to get to heaven. Actually if you will notice, both of these passage are in chapters that are specifically explaining the events of the tribulation.

In Matthew it says that iniquity will abound. In Mark it says we will be hated by all men for Christ's name sake. What these verse are telling us is that only those that do not turn from Christ during the tribulation will be saved. Those of us that endure until the very end shall be saved.Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keeps my works until the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

NOTICE THIS...

It is only those that keep God's holy word until the very end that will reign with Christ during the Millennium. We must endure until the end show let me show you want the end is.

1st Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stabblish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.Notice when the end is, when Jesus returns.

Also notice that it says Jesus will return with all His saints. This is impossible with a pretrib view. If Jesus raptures the righteous before the tribulation then return at the end of it with the raptured saints. The tribulational converts and ''Jewish saints'' would not be with Him. Therefore He would not be returning with all His saints.

Although....if He catches up the righteous as he is returning with the dead in Christ as it say He will in 1st Thessalonians 4:14-17, to meet Him in the air, then come to earth with Him. He would be returning with all His saints. So you just cant have it BOTH ways..did Jesus MEAN what he said OR DINT he??

1st Thessalonians 4:14-17
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them that sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (DEAD)
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:(FIRST RESSURECTION)17 Then (MEANING RIGHT AFTER THE FIRST RESSURECTION)we which are alive and remain (THOSE THAT ENDURED TO THE END AND SURVIVED)shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, (THE RAPTURE)and so we shall ever be with the Lord.
Verse 14 says that the dead in Christ are returning from heaven with Christ, and in verse 16 we see as He is returning their bodied rise from the grave to meet their souls, we know from 1st Corinthians 15:51-53 that this is when they receive their immortal bodies.

Then we which are alive and remain are caught up to meet them in the air. The post trib view is the only view that would allow 1st Thessalonians 3:13 to be true (which we know it is because it is the word of God) after we are caught up, we immediately return from the air to earth with Christ. Then and only then would He be returning will all His saints.

We will be raised at the last day John 6:39, 40, 44, and 54
John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.Jesus repeatedly declares that He will raise us up at the last day. Not seven years before, not three and a half years before, not one year, one month , or one day before, but at the last day.Tell me..WHAT part of "LAST DAY dont you get yet?)

At the last trump,
1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, (THEN..RIGHT AFTER THAT)and we shall be changed.(RAPTURED)[/b]53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

(YEP..THATS THE RAPTURE ALRIGHT..RIGHT AFTER THE FIRST RESSURECTION WHICH IS CLEARLY SEEN WITH NO SCRIPTURE TWISTING NEEDED...TO HAPPEN WHEN???..AT THE LORD RETURN ON THE LAAAAST DAY!!!)

Anyone cane EASILY SEE that this is referring to the event known as the rapture. We see in the passage that it tell us when it will happen ''at the last trump''. We also see in Matthew 24:29-31 that there will be a trumpet sounded after the tribulation has ended.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation (I CANNOT UNDERSTAND HOW PRE TRIBBER CAN IGNORE THIS..PERHAPS IT THREATENS THEIR BOOK SALES TOO MUCH)of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect(RAPTURE THEM) from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
If the rapture is at the last trump, which we know it is because God's word says it does. Then the rapture can not be before the trumpet sounded in Matthew 24, which is sounded after the tribulation is over.

Next I will show two more things #1 that the wicked are destroyed by fire at the post trib 2nd coming of Christ, and #2 that the rapture is on the same day that Christ return at the end of the Tribulation to destroy the wicked.

#1 The destruction of the wicked by fire at the post trib 2nd coming.

Matthew 3:7-12
7 But when he ( John the Baptist) saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, we have Abraham as our father: for I say unto you that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree that brings forth not good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost(FOR THE RIGHTEOUS), and with fire.(FOR THE WICKED)
12 Whose fan is in his hand, he shall throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into his garner, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

There is only three times in the New Testament that the phrase ''wrath to come'' is mentioned. Once in 1st Thessalonians 1:10, once here in Matthew 3:7 and in Luke 3:7 which is telling the same story about John the Baptist warning the masses of the wrath that is to come. So what is the ''wrath to come'' that he was warning them from? It is the purging of the floor mentioned in verse 12. It is the baptism of fire when the wicked will be overwhelmed by fire at the return of Jesus, it is the burning of the chaff which will occur when Jesus returns at the post trib second coming. The wrath to come that Jesus has delivered us from by his death and resurrection, is the destruction of the wicked by fire at the second coming of Christ.
 
1st Thessalonians 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

The destruction of the wicked is not a prolonged seven years period, but it is sudden destruction that will come upon them when Jesus returns at the post trib second coming.

2nd Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

When Jesus returns He is coming in power and great glory, the tribes of the earth shall mourn and every one that is not in Christ including the anti christ will be destroyed immediately by the brightness of His coming.

Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we willfully sin after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that shall devour the adversaries.The wrath to come is the judgment of God were He will destroy all His adversaries with a fiery indignation, when Jesus returns, not the entire tribulation period.

2nd Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burnt up.

This doesn't sound like a pretrib event, there wouldn't be anything left to live on earth for the next seven years. The day of the Lord is a post tribulational event. Where Jesus will destroy all with fire, but first he will resurrect the dead in Christ and catch away the living saints.

I have shown that the wrath is the fiery destruction of the wicked which occurs at the return of Christ. It is not the tribulation period itself. Next, I will give scripture that shows that the second coming, the resurrection of the just, the rapture of the living saints and the destruction of the wicked by fire happen all at once.

#2 The rapture is at the post rib 2nd coming on the same day Christ return to deatroy the wicked.
Pretrib ''Theologians'' boldly proclaim that when ever the second coming is mentioned, there is no mention of the church being raptured, and when ever the rapture is mentioned there is no mention of the destruction of the wicked. Well, I have four passages of scripture that will eliminate that myth once and for all. The first text I will use is Matthew 3:12, I will revisit the words of John the baptist.

Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, he shall throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into his garner, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Notice that when Jesus comes to purge His floor, He first gathers the wheat and then burns the chaff. This is what will occur at the second coming. When Jesus returns at the end of the tribulation, He will resurrect the just, rapture the saints, and then burn the wicked with an unquenchable fire.

Matthew 24:37-41
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving into marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came and took them all away,(IN OTHER WORKDS..KILLED THEM ALL SUDDENLY) so shall the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field one taken,(KILLED..NOT RAPTURED) and the other left.
41 Two woman shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken and the other left.
The flood came and took them away (DROWNED THEM ALL)when they were unaware, so will the coming of Christ be, but this next flood will be a flood of fire. At this point, at the post trib second coming when Jesus is returning to destroy the wicked is when the rapture takes place. Verse 40 and 41 declare THEN will one be taken (BURNT UP SUDDENLY BY FIRE)and the other left, not before the return of Christ, but at it.

Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.

The very day Noah entered the ark the flood came and destroyed them all, once again it was not a seven year prolonged period of destruction but it was immediate, the very day the righteous were removed.
28 Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.

It very clear the SAME DAY Noah went on the ark the flood came and destroyed them all. The SAME DAY Lot was taken, out of Sodom fire and brimstone rain from heaven and destroyed them all. The text says this is exactly how it will be when Jesus returns. The very SAME DAY Jesus returns at His post trib second coming is the very SAME DAY we will be taken out or '' raptured '' and it is the very SAME DAY He will destroy the wicked. This will be confirmed in my next text 2nd Thessalonins 1:6-10 as well.

2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.We receive our rest when Jesus is revealed with his mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God.

In other words we are raptured at the post trib second coming when Jesus returns to destroy the wicked with fire. Lets look at verse 7 and 8 again.
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
There is no question that this passage places the post trib second coming, the rapture of the saints, and the destruction of the wicked all at the very same time. The pretib ''Theologian'' that claims the Bible never says as much, must of missed this passage. We cannot ignore God's word, so I choose to ignore the pretrib ''Theologian''.

Lastly I will give a reference in Revelation 20:4-6 that tells us that the raptre is after the Tribulation (remember the resurrection of the just comes before rapture of the living saints). In Revelation 20:4-6 it shows us the the 1st resurrection the resurrection of the just is after the Tribulation because it include those that were martyred during the Tribulation.

Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

As CAN CLEARLY AND IRREFUTABLE CAN BE SEEN NOW...The first resurrection is after the tribulation, we know this because it includes the tribulational martyrs.

There can be no resurrection before the first resurrection, otherwise it would be a SECOND ressurection..or a THIRD even, therefore there can not be a mass resurrection of the dead in Christ before the tribulation. Seeing that the first resurrection takes place at the end of the tribulation, the pretrib rapture along with the mid trib, and pre wrath rapture become biblically impossible. The only view that fits is that of a post trib rapture. The first resurrection is the resurrection of the just and the rapture immediately proceeds it.


So to summarise....

The first ressurection happens at the LAST day..the very day Jesus returns to begin his reign and toast the evil ones at armageddon....yes???

The SECOND ressurection happens at the end of the thousand years not long after stan is let loose again to lead his final rebellion..correct??

So...according to the bible...Jesus returns..gathers all who are his...the dead who LOVED him and God..followed by those who are still alive who love himm....and wipes out the antichrist at the end of the tribulation..FIRST ressurection..

There are only TWO ressurections..a "First"..which is for the righteous..and a "Second" which is for the evil.


1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain (SURVIVE)unto the coming of the Lord shall not preceed (GO BEFORE) them which are asleep.

Notice it says "THE COMING OF THE LORD"...so it IS his return then...and it goes on to describe what happens..the ORDER in which they happen..

16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and (THEN)the dead will rise first

Notice the TRUMPET!!..so it HAS to be the LAST trumpet..cause its his RETURN AND THE FIRST RESSURECTION!!

:(THE RESSURECTION OF THE JUST...FIRST ressurection!)

17 Then we which are alive and remain (THE SURVIVORS)shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.


So if THIS is the case...

as is clearly stated...JESUS returns..raises up ALL who are his who have died throughout history..THEN..he changes those who are still alive at this time into immortal beings..THEN he smashes the forces of the antichrist and sets up his 1000 year kindom..all on the SAME DAY


THE LAST DAY

And it CLEARLY states..that the DEAD are raised BEFORE the living are changed..

SO HOW CAN THE RAPTURE HAPPEN BEFORE THE FIRST RESSURECTION???...when it says it happens AFTER??
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18459759


THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^100000000000000000000000000+

If you pre trib FEAR FILLED money making COWARDS who just want to escape any harm while millions BURN STILL cant grasp the TRUTH..as in the above POST...you deserve the MASSIVE SHOCK you will get when your cowardly money making pre trib empire CRUMBLES around you as you SCREAM in agony as they tortture you for being a christian..and MANY will fall away..cause they only followed jesus for the EASY RIDE..that satan DUPED them into by using their favourite false teachers and their OWN WILLFUL IGNORANCE.

Why do I call it that?

Becaiuse the above post is 100% SCRIPTURE..NO parables..NO conjecture..NO twiasting or guessing..its 100% SPOT ON PURE SCRIPTURE..the WORDS.

Most christians HATE the bible..they HATE pure scripture..and they MOSTLY HATE whaever jesus said..because they DO the very oppsite.

Thinking themselves wise..they are FOOLS..decieved..and NON elect.

THE ELECT CANNOT BE DECIEVED.

If you beleive in the pre trib rap..YOU ARE NOT THE ELECT.

ITS THAT SIMPLE!
Keep2theCode (OP)

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05/27/2013 09:48 PM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^100000000000000000000000000+

If you pre trib FEAR FILLED money making COWARDS...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16396300


What a hate-filled, fact-free rant. All it does is prove me right about the enemies of "that blessed hope".

Keep up the thread bumping so more people will see the true teaching of the pre-trib Rapture!
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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05/27/2013 09:51 PM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
God has protected His people in terrible tribulation and persecution, this is His
way not the Rapture. You can't easily disregard calling this message false, Kevin is a Protestant prophet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213


I asked you to stop.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Why, others are disagreeing, your thread is going to your head silly girl. You
are closed to what Jesus is trying to teach you. Wake up friend. I'll post
Kevin's message in the other Rapture thread this evening.

God protects His people, He does not rapture them out, no death, no suffering.

You are misinterpreting the Final Judgment verses.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213

God has done both, at different times. God has in fact raptured before. He raptured Enoch before the Great Flood. He took Ezekiel before he died. There were even saints resurrected at the same time Yeshua was resurrected. Did they then live forever on earth after that? Doubtful. Even Noah was lifted up out of the flood. He did not have to endure it on the ground where everyone drowned. Even Lot and his family were rescued and taken out of Sodom before God's wrath fell on them. Yeshua was the first fruit of the resurrection. His example of going up to heaven before His Great and Terrible Day of Judgement was to come, is a foreshadow of what He's going to do to the church. Even John was taken up to heaven, which looks very much like a foreshadow of the rapture before the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week, commonly called the Tribulation.

While God never promised us a Rapture from life's trials and tribulations, neither did He promise us protection from them. Yeshua(Jesus) said we'll suffer persecutions, like He did. But He did not promise us God's wrath on us. Instead He promised that we'll be removed from His time of wrath upon a wicked and rebellious world. Why would our Father punish His children for the sins of the unbelieving world? His wrath is for them, not us.

Unless perhaps you feel like you are a part of this wicked and unbelieving world. This is not my home, I'm just passing through.

Peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31473452


I cannot help the OP deleted the Protestant message with Our Lord repeating
the Rapture is a lie.

Your examples of a Rapture are all wrong except for God's exception, Enoch
and Elijah. Interesting how non-Catholics accept God makes exceptions,
Enoch and Elijah but because of ant-Mary they've been taught cannot see that
Our Lord's mother is an exception of God. She would carry God inside her!
God made her without Original Sin. Mary is sinless, the Father's greeting for
Mary was "Hail full of grace." The KJV changes His greeting. Grace is God's
presence, Mary is sinless.

Back to your reply, thank you for it, Noah wasn't raptured. He followed God's
instruction and was protected on the earth on the boat God asked him to
build. I do not know if you are aware, John died on the earth, the only Apostle
not to be martyred. Many a saint throughout 2000 years of Christianity have
been shown Heaven.

God protects His people during serious persecution and this time when His
judgment comes, the faithful will be protected on the earth. How do you say
it, from His "wrath." The Chastisement is prophesied to be by fire.
Keep2theCode (OP)

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05/27/2013 09:55 PM
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I cannot help the OP deleted the Protestant message with Our Lord repeating
the Rapture is a lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213


I DID NOT DELETE ANYTHING. I CANNOT.

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 05/27/2013 09:55 PM
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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05/27/2013 09:58 PM
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...


I asked you to stop.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Why, others are disagreeing, your thread is going to your head silly girl. You
are closed to what Jesus is trying to teach you. Wake up friend. I'll post
Kevin's message in the other Rapture thread this evening.

God protects His people, He does not rapture them out, no death, no suffering.

You are misinterpreting the Final Judgment verses.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213

God has done both, at different times. God has in fact raptured before. He raptured Enoch before the Great Flood. He took Ezekiel before he died. There were even saints resurrected at the same time Yeshua was resurrected. Did they then live forever on earth after that? Doubtful. Even Noah was lifted up out of the flood. He did not have to endure it on the ground where everyone drowned. Even Lot and his family were rescued and taken out of Sodom before God's wrath fell on them. Yeshua was the first fruit of the resurrection. His example of going up to heaven before His Great and Terrible Day of Judgement was to come, is a foreshadow of what He's going to do to the church. Even John was taken up to heaven, which looks very much like a foreshadow of the rapture before the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week, commonly called the Tribulation.

While God never promised us a Rapture from life's trials and tribulations, neither did He promise us protection from them. Yeshua(Jesus) said we'll suffer persecutions, like He did. But He did not promise us God's wrath on us. Instead He promised that we'll be removed from His time of wrath upon a wicked and rebellious world. Why would our Father punish His children for the sins of the unbelieving world? His wrath is for them, not us.

Unless perhaps you feel like you are a part of this wicked and unbelieving world. This is not my home, I'm just passing through.

Peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31473452


I cannot help the OP deleted the Protestant message with Our Lord repeating
the Rapture is a lie.

Your examples of a Rapture are all wrong except for God's exception, Enoch
and Elijah. Interesting how non-Catholics accept God makes exceptions,
Enoch and Elijah but because of ant-Mary they've been taught cannot see that
Our Lord's mother is an exception of God. She would carry God inside her!
God made her without Original Sin. Mary is sinless, the Father's greeting for
Mary was "Hail full of grace." The KJV changes His greeting. Grace is God's
presence, Mary is sinless.

Back to your reply, thank you for it, Noah wasn't raptured. He followed God's
instruction and was protected on the earth on the boat God asked him to
build. I do not know if you are aware, John died on the earth, the only Apostle
not to be martyred. Many a saint throughout 2000 years of Christianity have
been shown Heaven.

God protects His people during serious persecution and this time when His
judgment comes, the faithful will be protected on the earth. How do you say
it, from His "wrath." The Chastisement is prophesied to be by fire.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213


Interesting. . .tell us more
Keep2theCode (OP)

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Interesting. . .tell us more
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578


Don't feed the troll.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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05/27/2013 10:02 PM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
Meh, yer not stupid or an idiot. If that is what you believe, then go ahead and believe it. Just dont be surprised when you go through suffering like everyone else and end up being beheaded in the end.

Most will realize they are not being "raptures out" and will come to believe that there is no God and that they were wrong. Many will even get to the point of being martyred as a saint and deny Christ to save their own lives since they were not "raptured out."

That is the danger of believing in a pre-trib rapture. There is a very specific reason why Jesus tells us to be faithful until the very end. Because many will expect Him to save them and He won't, because he never told us to not worry about it, instead, He very clearly tells us what we will face and then reminds us to endure and be faithful until the very end.

Another thing that I believe will also surprise many Christians is the fact that Jesus tells us in Revelations that only thise who have been martyred by having their heads cut off will return as the priests and rulers ofthe Earth during the mellenial rule if Christ. Dont believe me? Open up Revelations and look for it and then read the verse carefully and you will see.

I dont really much care what people believe anymore. When I try to guide them they usually make a huge argument in anger over it. So I have come to the point where I Just dont care to bother with it. Let them believe what they will. In the end, salvation is an individual thing, As is learning, we are each responsible to learn and understand on our own. You wont be able to have the excuse before God of: "but this pasture TOLD me it was like this and not like that! Its his fault!!"

Like everything in life, you are responsible for yourself and your choices.
Keep2theCode (OP)

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05/27/2013 10:19 PM
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Meh, yer not stupid or an idiot. If that is what you believe, then go ahead and believe it. Just dont be surprised when you go through suffering like everyone else and end up being beheaded in the end.

Most will realize they are not being "raptures out" and will come to believe that there is no God and that they were wrong. Many will even get to the point of being martyred as a saint and deny Christ to save their own lives since they were not "raptured out."

That is the danger of believing in a pre-trib rapture. There is a very specific reason why Jesus tells us to be faithful until the very end. Because many will expect Him to save them and He won't, because he never told us to not worry about it, instead, He very clearly tells us what we will face and then reminds us to endure and be faithful until the very end.

Another thing that I believe will also surprise many Christians is the fact that Jesus tells us in Revelations that only thise who have been martyred by having their heads cut off will return as the priests and rulers ofthe Earth during the mellenial rule if Christ. Dont believe me? Open up Revelations and look for it and then read the verse carefully and you will see.

I dont really much care what people believe anymore. When I try to guide them they usually make a huge argument in anger over it. So I have come to the point where I Just dont care to bother with it. Let them believe what they will. In the end, salvation is an individual thing, As is learning, we are each responsible to learn and understand on our own. You wont be able to have the excuse before God of: "but this pasture TOLD me it was like this and not like that! Its his fault!!"

Like everything in life, you are responsible for yourself and your choices.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15583309

You can say these same things about any prophetic viewpoint. Whoever winds up being right, all the rest will be shaken and their faith questioned. But thanks for at least allowing people to hold opinions without rancor.

I explained why I believe as I do. In various comments and links I've also shown that the alleged "dangers" of my view are false, and the alleged sources of my view are lies.

If anyone is set up to accept the AC, it's the anti-pre-tribbers, since they are looking for Jesus to appear on the earth at the Rapture rather than in the air/clouds as Jesus promised and Paul agreed. And I've already explained the danger of those who are so very proud of their ability to endure by their own strength; they are in for a huge surprise.

I have said all I can possibly say and have repeated it many times. And it really is irrelevant to a topic about what I believe to present all these other theories.

Well, I'm sure when I wake up tomorrow the thread will be crawling with more of this. It is to be expected and... endured.
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? (Gal. 4:16)
Anonymous Coward
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05/27/2013 10:23 PM
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I'm chiming in a little late in the thread, but after reading all the posts, I didn't see anyone mention the fact that Noah was told by God to go into the Ark 7 Days (Years0 before the flood, and God was the one who closed and sealed the door.

OP I tend to agree with you on the pre-trib viewpoint, although I've held the Mid, Post and Pre-Wrath viewpoints in the past. I've noticed a trend among Pentecostal denomination of being frothers when it comes to Post-trib rapture.They are adamant that the rest of us are idiots.

The Bride needs to be purged, refined and made white through many travails. They have mindset that is works based.

FYI, to all concerned... The timing of the Harpazo is NOT a salvation issue. Most of the elect I've know for the past 30+ years who believe in pre-trib also undertand fully that they could be totally wrong on the timing and are prepared to "endure to the end" even if that means getting head sawed off with a dull knife like certain types are fond of doing right now everyday in some countries.
Anonymous Coward
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05/27/2013 10:32 PM
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...


I asked you to stop.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Why, others are disagreeing, your thread is going to your head silly girl. You
are closed to what Jesus is trying to teach you. Wake up friend. I'll post
Kevin's message in the other Rapture thread this evening.

God protects His people, He does not rapture them out, no death, no suffering.

You are misinterpreting the Final Judgment verses.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213

God has done both, at different times. God has in fact raptured before. He raptured Enoch before the Great Flood. He took Ezekiel before he died. There were even saints resurrected at the same time Yeshua was resurrected. Did they then live forever on earth after that? Doubtful. Even Noah was lifted up out of the flood. He did not have to endure it on the ground where everyone drowned. Even Lot and his family were rescued and taken out of Sodom before God's wrath fell on them. Yeshua was the first fruit of the resurrection. His example of going up to heaven before His Great and Terrible Day of Judgement was to come, is a foreshadow of what He's going to do to the church. Even John was taken up to heaven, which looks very much like a foreshadow of the rapture before the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week, commonly called the Tribulation.

While God never promised us a Rapture from life's trials and tribulations, neither did He promise us protection from them. Yeshua(Jesus) said we'll suffer persecutions, like He did. But He did not promise us God's wrath on us. Instead He promised that we'll be removed from His time of wrath upon a wicked and rebellious world. Why would our Father punish His children for the sins of the unbelieving world? His wrath is for them, not us.

Unless perhaps you feel like you are a part of this wicked and unbelieving world. This is not my home, I'm just passing through.

Peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31473452


I cannot help the OP deleted the Protestant message with Our Lord repeating
the Rapture is a lie.

Your examples of a Rapture are all wrong except for God's exception, Enoch
and Elijah. Interesting how non-Catholics accept God makes exceptions,
Enoch and Elijah but because of ant-Mary they've been taught cannot see that
Our Lord's mother is an exception of God. She would carry God inside her!
God made her without Original Sin. Mary is sinless, the Father's greeting for
Mary was "Hail full of grace." The KJV changes His greeting. Grace is God's
presence, Mary is sinless.

Back to your reply, thank you for it, Noah wasn't raptured. He followed God's
instruction and was protected on the earth on the boat God asked him to
build. I do not know if you are aware, John died on the earth, the only Apostle
not to be martyred. Many a saint throughout 2000 years of Christianity have
been shown Heaven.

God protects His people during serious persecution and this time when His
judgment comes, the faithful will be protected on the earth. How do you say
it, from His "wrath." The Chastisement is prophesied to be by fire.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213

I believe in the literal interpretation of the bible whenever possible, not an allegorical catholic version. The two interpretations are mutually exclusive. And an allegorical view can and does create any meaning desired from scriptures, because anything goes and there are no rules. Sorry, I reject the heresies from the Roman Catholic Church. Nothing personal.

Seek faith in Yeshua(Jesus) through a personal relationship with Him. Neither Mary nor the pope can save you. Only repentance and faith in Yeshua can do so. No other doctrines really matter (such as the rapture) if you do not have a personal relationship with Yeshua, our savior. That is the only place to start.

Peace.
me777
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05/27/2013 10:35 PM

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hf
When thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Isaiah 26:9

"Exposing Those Who Contradict"
[link to bible-truths.com]

"For as in Adam ALL die, so also in the Messiah will ALL be made alive."
[link to www.tentmaker.org]
Anonymous Coward
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05/27/2013 11:17 PM
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I'm chiming in a little late in the thread, but after reading all the posts, I didn't see anyone mention the fact that Noah was told by God to go into the Ark 7 Days (Years0 before the flood, and God was the one who closed and sealed the door.

OP I tend to agree with you on the pre-trib viewpoint, although I've held the Mid, Post and Pre-Wrath viewpoints in the past. I've noticed a trend among Pentecostal denomination of being frothers when it comes to Post-trib rapture.They are adamant that the rest of us are idiots.

The Bride needs to be purged, refined and made white through many travails. They have mindset that is works based.

FYI, to all concerned... The timing of the Harpazo is NOT a salvation issue. Most of the elect I've know for the past 30+ years who believe in pre-trib also undertand fully that they could be totally wrong on the timing and are prepared to "endure to the end" even if that means getting head sawed off with a dull knife like certain types are fond of doing right now everyday in some countries.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32966559

Yes, Noah's story is a foreshadow of the rapture. Not exact, but indicative. Noah and his family were saved out of God's wrath on the world. They didn't have to hold their breath for 6 months or so, or swim around with supernatural protection during that time. They were carried up out of danger. It was not a spiritual rapture, but I think it was illustrative of God's plan to take His children out of harm's way when He pours out His wrath on a rebellious and unbelieving (and demon-blood tainted) generation.

I don't understand why so many believers seem so hateful toward their fellow Christians who interpret the rapture differently than they do. It is as if they have no love in their hearts for their brothers. Their vitriol is certainly not Christ-like, thus they discredit themselves many times from their very first sentence of their message.

Yes, if I'm wrong about the rapture, then all I can say is "God's will be done." I will be willing to accept God's plan, no matter what it turns out to be. I don't think true Christians will turn their backs on Yeshua if they don't get raptured. The nominal professing ones might, which is true of all different rapture viewpoint believers.

In the end, all of God's children will be together with Christ. How many Christians will be embarrassed at that time by their poor and unloving behavior they've had towards other of God's children?
ANHEDONIC

User ID: 26795689
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05/27/2013 11:40 PM

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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
I cannot help the OP deleted the Protestant message with Our Lord repeating
the Rapture is a lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213


I DID NOT DELETE ANYTHING. I CANNOT.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Actually as a registered member and the OP of this thread, you do have the option to both remove (delete) posts from the thread as well as ban users from posting in it.... Look at the options listed in blue to the left of each post.

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Anonymous Coward
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05/27/2013 11:45 PM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
"How many Christians will be embarrassed at that time by their poor and unloving behavior they've had towards other of God's children?"


***********************************


Embarrased???



Warning Jews not to get into the boxcars would not embarrass me in the slightest. I would feel in fact that it is my duty to do so.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25355248
Mongolia
05/28/2013 12:09 AM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
"How many Christians will be embarrassed at that time by their poor and unloving behavior they've had towards other of God's children?"


***********************************


Embarrased???



Warning Jews not to get into the boxcars would not embarrass me in the slightest. I would feel in fact that it is my duty to do so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40260170

I agree. I would plead with them in love. Not rather as some have accused me before of going to burn in hell for my heresy. How helpful would it be to hatefully tell those in the boxcars that their decision would make them burn in hell forever? That's just one example of the vitriol I've personally seen.

However, your analogy is flawed. Christians who believe one non-salvation-oriented doctrine differently than you do are not by that belief "getting into boxcars."

Students of bible prophesy will realize that if the Antichrist is revealed, or when he confirms the covenant with many (esp. with Israel) for 7 yrs, or when he sets up the abomination of desolation, or when 1/3 of the planet dies off, or when the oceans and rivers turn to blood, or any of the many other judgements will come about during the Tribulation, that the Tribulation will then be underway. Then they will likely have time to prepare themselves spiritually for the hell on earth that is to come.

Those who don't know bible prophecy might be caught off-guard.

And Christ told us that we will suffer persecution in this world. It does happen now, and it will happen more in the future, even likely before the rapture happens. That's why it's prudent for all Christians, even pre-tribbers, to be preppers to be ready for anything that might happen in their time here on earth before the rapture. And if they are prepared (as well as one can be), then they will be in a better position to endure the Tribulation if their rapture belief proves to be flawed.

Many of us see the handwriting on the wall, and we are all tasked to be watchers for the end times, so we all have a responsibility to be as ready as we can be, whether that is for pre-rapture disasters, or the Tribulation. Even when we are raptured, we'll likely have friends and/or family that are not believers, who will be left behind. And our normal disaster preps will help those who are left behind to better survive the Tribulation.

So, no matter what, we should all be Preppers in these end times. There is no excuse not to be. Having said that, the greatest and most important prep of all is our spiritual preps. Our relationship with Christ, and that of our family's relationship with Christ, are the most important things we should get right, here and now.

Everything else, including rapture doctrine, is secondary.

Peace
Anonymous Coward
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05/28/2013 12:18 AM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
I cannot help the OP deleted the Protestant message with Our Lord repeating
the Rapture is a lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213


I DID NOT DELETE ANYTHING. I CANNOT.
 Quoting: Keep2theCode


Actually as a registered member and the OP of this thread, you do have the option to both remove (delete) posts from the thread as well as ban users from posting in it.... Look at the options listed in blue to the left of each post.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20541213
United States
05/28/2013 12:22 AM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
"How many Christians will be embarrassed at that time by their poor and unloving behavior they've had towards other of God's children?"


***********************************


Embarrased???



Warning Jews not to get into the boxcars would not embarrass me in the slightest. I would feel in fact that it is my duty to do so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40260170


There were 20 plus anti-Catholic threads at GLP today. I totally agree.
Catholics explain the faith, the objections (protests) continue, it doesn't matter.
Kinda know how conservative speakers feel.

For 15 years of my reading, the Protestant and Catholic messages from
Heaven have said the Remnant is Roman Catholic. God is preparing
non-Catholic Christians to accept the faith.

Again, not a word about the "last Trumpet." Please figure it out.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 40260170
United States
05/28/2013 12:40 AM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
"How many Christians will be embarrassed at that time by their poor and unloving behavior they've had towards other of God's children?"


***********************************


Embarrased???



Warning Jews not to get into the boxcars would not embarrass me in the slightest. I would feel in fact that it is my duty to do so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40260170

I agree. I would plead with them in love. Not rather as some have accused me before of going to burn in hell for my heresy. How helpful would it be to hatefully tell those in the boxcars that their decision would make them burn in hell forever? That's just one example of the vitriol I've personally seen.

However, your analogy is flawed. Christians who believe one non-salvation-oriented doctrine differently than you do are not by that belief "getting into boxcars."

Students of bible prophesy will realize that if the Antichrist is revealed, or when he confirms the covenant with many (esp. with Israel) for 7 yrs, or when he sets up the abomination of desolation, or when 1/3 of the planet dies off, or when the oceans and rivers turn to blood, or any of the many other judgements will come about during the Tribulation, that the Tribulation will then be underway. Then they will likely have time to prepare themselves spiritually for the hell on earth that is to come.

Those who don't know bible prophecy might be caught off-guard.

And Christ told us that we will suffer persecution in this world. It does happen now, and it will happen more in the future, even likely before the rapture happens. That's why it's prudent for all Christians, even pre-tribbers, to be preppers to be ready for anything that might happen in their time here on earth before the rapture. And if they are prepared (as well as one can be), then they will be in a better position to endure the Tribulation if their rapture belief proves to be flawed.

Many of us see the handwriting on the wall, and we are all tasked to be watchers for the end times, so we all have a responsibility to be as ready as we can be, whether that is for pre-rapture disasters, or the Tribulation. Even when we are raptured, we'll likely have friends and/or family that are not believers, who will be left behind. And our normal disaster preps will help those who are left behind to better survive the Tribulation.

So, no matter what, we should all be Preppers in these end times. There is no excuse not to be. Having said that, the greatest and most important prep of all is our spiritual preps. Our relationship with Christ, and that of our family's relationship with Christ, are the most important things we should get right, here and now.

Everything else, including rapture doctrine, is secondary.

Peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25355248


248


What you say is very well written.


I am not really welcome to post on this thread......but will attempt to post my words as tactfully as possible.


If a Christian is here when bread goes to a day's wages per loaf.......you should probably agree that the Pre-Trib position is not correct. You are at the 3rd Seal.


And the 4th Seal appears to be approx. 25% of the world's population perishing by such things as plague, etc.


If a person sees these things......and also a person coming back from the dead......you know that you are approaching the mid-point of Daniel's 70th week. A great persecution, beginning from Jerusalem, will then be unleased.


Christ has warned us in advance.......and told us what to do.


Those in the immediate area.....leave everything behind......and flee to the wilderness.


Those are His instructions.


This is not the easiest thing to do on short notice.......just to begin walking (or running) away from the home that you have known your whole life......leaving everything behind......and trusting fully in God to take care of you.


Yet that is what Christ has said to do.


It needs to be practiced in one's mind in advance.......so that a person will have the faith to do such a thing when the time comes.


To those who ignore Christ's instructions.....and just remain in their homes......they will probably be arrested.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25355248
Mongolia
05/28/2013 12:50 AM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
"How many Christians will be embarrassed at that time by their poor and unloving behavior they've had towards other of God's children?"


***********************************


Embarrased???



Warning Jews not to get into the boxcars would not embarrass me in the slightest. I would feel in fact that it is my duty to do so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40260170


There were 20 plus anti-Catholic threads at GLP today. I totally agree.
Catholics explain the faith, the objections (protests) continue, it doesn't matter.
Kinda know how conservative speakers feel.

For 15 years of my reading, the Protestant and Catholic messages from
Heaven have said the Remnant is Roman Catholic. God is preparing
non-Catholic Christians to accept the faith.

Again, not a word about the "last Trumpet." Please figure it out.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20541213

It seems you have gotten off track. Are you trying to derail this thread? Why not instead make your own thread where you can expound on the virtues, as you see them, of Roman Catholicism? I'm sure you will get many responces there.

Or perhaps you can go start up a chat with New Jerusalem Russ. I'm sure he'd love to hear your views on Roman Catholicism.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25355248
Mongolia
05/28/2013 12:56 AM
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Re: For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture
"How many Christians will be embarrassed at that time by their poor and unloving behavior they've had towards other of God's children?"


***********************************


Embarrased???



Warning Jews not to get into the boxcars would not embarrass me in the slightest. I would feel in fact that it is my duty to do so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40260170

I agree. I would plead with them in love. Not rather as some have accused me before of going to burn in hell for my heresy. How helpful would it be to hatefully tell those in the boxcars that their decision would make them burn in hell forever? That's just one example of the vitriol I've personally seen.

However, your analogy is flawed. Christians who believe one non-salvation-oriented doctrine differently than you do are not by that belief "getting into boxcars."

Students of bible prophesy will realize that if the Antichrist is revealed, or when he confirms the covenant with many (esp. with Israel) for 7 yrs, or when he sets up the abomination of desolation, or when 1/3 of the planet dies off, or when the oceans and rivers turn to blood, or any of the many other judgements will come about during the Tribulation, that the Tribulation will then be underway. Then they will likely have time to prepare themselves spiritually for the hell on earth that is to come.

Those who don't know bible prophecy might be caught off-guard.

And Christ told us that we will suffer persecution in this world. It does happen now, and it will happen more in the future, even likely before the rapture happens. That's why it's prudent for all Christians, even pre-tribbers, to be preppers to be ready for anything that might happen in their time here on earth before the rapture. And if they are prepared (as well as one can be), then they will be in a better position to endure the Tribulation if their rapture belief proves to be flawed.

Many of us see the handwriting on the wall, and we are all tasked to be watchers for the end times, so we all have a responsibility to be as ready as we can be, whether that is for pre-rapture disasters, or the Tribulation. Even when we are raptured, we'll likely have friends and/or family that are not believers, who will be left behind. And our normal disaster preps will help those who are left behind to better survive the Tribulation.

So, no matter what, we should all be Preppers in these end times. There is no excuse not to be. Having said that, the greatest and most important prep of all is our spiritual preps. Our relationship with Christ, and that of our family's relationship with Christ, are the most important things we should get right, here and now.

Everything else, including rapture doctrine, is secondary.

Peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25355248


248


What you say is very well written.


I am not really welcome to post on this thread......but will attempt to post my words as tactfully as possible.


If a Christian is here when bread goes to a day's wages per loaf.......you should probably agree that the Pre-Trib position is not correct. You are at the 3rd Seal.


And the 4th Seal appears to be approx. 25% of the world's population perishing by such things as plague, etc.


If a person sees these things......and also a person coming back from the dead......you know that you are approaching the mid-point of Daniel's 70th week. A great persecution, beginning from Jerusalem, will then be unleased.


Christ has warned us in advance.......and told us what to do.


Those in the immediate area.....leave everything behind......and flee to the wilderness.


Those are His instructions.


This is not the easiest thing to do on short notice.......just to begin walking (or running) away from the home that you have known your whole life......leaving everything behind......and trusting fully in God to take care of you.


Yet that is what Christ has said to do.


It needs to be practiced in one's mind in advance.......so that a person will have the faith to do such a thing when the time comes.


To those who ignore Christ's instructions.....and just remain in their homes......they will probably be arrested.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40260170

Yes, these things will happen. And new believers who are on earth at that time will need to take heed.

And also, some of these things may come to pass in varying degrees of severity even before the Tribulation happens, so we should all be ready for these things always.