For Christians: The scriptural basis for the pre-tribulational Rapture

Do not be negative, in disguise. I was replying to the underlined above. This is a discussion forum, someone posts and another comments on
what is posted. It is important to read prophecy, Protestant and Catholic.

Perhaps your heart can be changed toward the faith, God can do it, trust
Him.




God bless you,

The Word "Rapture" now has been "Hijacked" it use to be a singular Event Word meaning When Christ Returns, That Great Hope, a pre-trib was and is an invention of the Catholic Church The Beast who Christ showed John The Revelator to teach His people "to come out of Her", If we Eat from The Beasts table we are in Her Home.

The Fact that we are discussing a Secret Rapture a before Event, a time when Christ comes and secretly takes Some of His people Away and comes back later for other people,

to save them from persecution Doesn't Gel with The Scriptures, Christ taught that:
"Today is the Day of Salvation",
The Scriptures Teach That Whoever Reads Revelation and Daniel will be Blessed, Saying that Somehow the Beast would be upset with someone Teaching Her Errors that she intentionally sent to sabotage others with makes ZERO sense.

I suggest Also if that Lady is Reading things on Her computer that is there one minute and Gone the Next She should Pray to Christ About it (for once)

Like 10 pages in so far,and the pre trib rapture is still as big a lie as it ever was.You preach no truth,merely your delusions that you refuse to let go of no matter what is posted to refute them.

BTW this is the other guy that made an anti pre trib rapture thread the other day,and was smacking you around with the other indoctrinated pawns of the Babylonian church.

You still were never able to answer my very simple question OP.There are only 2 resurrections..no disputing that whatsoever.

Ok well Paul also made it clear that the rapture happens at the same time as the first resurrection did he not?Once again 100% indisputable.

And lastly the bible outright states that the first resurrection is happening right around the time that the beast and his followers are destroyed and the 1000 yr reign of christ begins.Need I say it again...indisputable.

Logical conclusion= Rapture/resurrection happens near the end of the tribulation.


No one cares about your twisting scripture verses to make pre trib work,or ridiculous man made theories of comparing end time events to jewish weddings etc etc.

This is 100% bible based and without alternate interpretations,which why it is the nail in pre trib raptures coffin.


The sooner this deceptive doctrine dies off the better.

The Rapture~ Rooted in Catholicism

The foundation of the rapture theory was laid over 400 years ago upon the specific orders of the Catholic Church.

Every Christian needs to understand how this fabrication of error was designed to neutralize the great Protestant Reformation.

If the facts of history were known by protestants today who defend with such great emotion the rapture theory and the futurist antichrist doctrine, they would be horrified.

Luther and his fellow reformers boldly identified the pope as the "man of sin," and labeled the Catholic Church as the antichrist of prophecy. In response to those charges, the hierarchy assigned two Jesuit priests to develop counter-interpretations which would turn the onus away from the Catholic Church.

In spite of the fact that the two men founded opposing schools of interpretation, their theories have survived to form the basis of most modern Protestant theology today. Not only did they effectively blunt Luther's assessment of the papacy as the antichrist, but they cleverly divided and diluted the "protest" of all the churches which grew out of the Reformation movement.

Modern religious observers were astounded in January, 1984, when men like Billy Graham and Jerry Falwell meekly accepted and defended the establishment of United States political ties with the Vatican.

Why could those famous Protestant spokesmen see no danger in being allied with the Church of Rome? Because they are deceived, along with millions of others, by the Catholic-contrived theories of those two priests which have almost eclipsed the historic, biblical position of the Reformers.

If the spiritual descendants of Luther and Wesley
now had the same doctrine which they taught, not a single Lutheran or Methodist would favor any kind of alliance with the papacy today.

Now let's take a look at these two Spanish priests who flooded the sixteenth century with their counter- Reformation propaganda.

"Alcazar of Seville" applied all the beast prophecies to "Antiochus Epiphanes", who lived long before the popes began to rule in Rome. His system of interpretation came to be known as the "Preterist School" of prophecy. On the other hand,

"Jesuit Francisco Rivera" invented a system known as the Futurist School(FUTURISM)of interpretation. He taught that the antichrist was to be some future superman who would appear near the end of time and continue in power for three and a half years.

It is his clever, unscriptural theory which has been resurrected by modern evangelical Protestant Christians. And today millions of Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, etc., hold this anti-Protestant concoction of the Jesuits as some kind of infallible doctrine.

Yet, those same denominations claim to be faithful supporters of Protestant theology. Luther and other stalwart protestors against Catholic errors would be astounded if they were suddenly resurrected to hear what is being taught in the name of Protestantism.

In the early 1800s the futurist view of Jesuit Rivera passed through certain refinements and additions, including the seven-year tribulation and the snatching away of the saints. For the first time, it was espoused by Protestant teachers who were seeking ways of reconciliation with Rome. Through the influence and writings of John Nelson Darby of the Plymouth Brethren Church in England, the new doctrine spread to the United States. During the middle and latter nineteenth century, it received its biggest boost from Cyrus Scofield, who incorporated it into the notes of his Scofield Reference Bible published in 1909.

Its Runaway Catholic Jesuit Doctrines Meant to Confuse Protestants into a Heart Ache at the Repeated failure to appear raptures, eventually they get sick of Being wrong and Go and Join with Catholicism (THE Beast)
The Very Power that tricked them in the first place.

We will however being seeing signs and wonders in the last days Unfortunately they will be false Miracles from False Christs, When The World has totally turn its back on The Christ of the Bible and His Law when Everyone is in Full Blown Apostasy against God, saying "God will Not Judge Us, Hes to Merciful and No longer Recognizes Sin as Sin"
Then Christ will return and This Planet Cooks because Sin cannot Survive in the Presence of God.

Thank you.

There really is a lot of disinfo about pre-tribbers, which is why I made the thread. But as you can see, the facts of what we actually believe don't matter to them. We don't treat them as they treat us, but the mistreatment continues. I just have to wonder what it is about only this eschatological view that makes its opponents so hateful and aggressive.

Thanks to you as well. I just said something very similar re. the hateful attitudes before I read your comment. No matter how many times I've tried to tell them that my view does not make me fearful or unprepared, they don't want to hear it.

I see no such option. You have to be a PAYING member to have that feature.

Very well said!

Yes, we pre-tribbers "prep" for the things we see coming, since we never know how bad it will get before we go. And you made a very key point as well: that nothing will be wasted. I myself have built up supplies to leave behind for the poor souls who will go through the Tribulation. And of course, I've spread warnings about immediate dangers to everyone I could, including the spiritual prepping you mentioned. The pre-trib view has a rightful place at the prep table.

I am a Christian and I could care less about the "rapture". There is no crown for it, so why trouble yourself with it?

Wouldn't it be better to pray to be made worthy for martyrdom ? We only have one death, so why waste it ...

Stoned Prophet

Do you understand why I asked you to leave?

It's because of your insulting, condescending attitude.

In another thread you went on to assign all who hold to the pre-trib view as having some kind of emotional defect. That is slander, and you're doing it to fellow believers.

Aside from that, you still don't seem to grasp the topic here: why I believe as I do. I didn't start it to discuss any and all prophecy theories, as there are plenty of other threads already. I started it to state my beliefs, precisely because of all the disinfo and slander about it. Yet you and others have ignored the thread's purpose and tried valiantly to derail it into your own soapboxes; more than that, you all used it to slander and demonize me and everyone who believes as I do.

I hold no hope that you understand or care what I'm saying, but I had to say it.

Who are you of all people to say "don't be negative"??

Wow.

Now please, for the last time, STOP!

And to the Australians who posted most recently:

READ THE OP. Stop the slander. You have believed many lies about the pre-trib view and this thread will set them straight if you just take the time to read.

After all these trolling posts, you drop in here and make more!

Yeah, I've learned a lot about the anti-pre-tribbers... filled with hate and aggressive against us, treating us worse than unbelievers. They don't read, don't care, and don't stop. "By their fruit you will know them".

Looky what I found:


That speaks for itself, really... as does this most recent red karma: "5/27/2013 You are stupid, lost, deluded, rebellious, fearful, and most of all a false teacher"

Christians don't say such things.

BTW, thank you to the givers of "green"!

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 05/28/2013 07:22 AM

You could care less about the Rapture but posted here anyway?

You don't know this promise? "2 Timothy 4:8
Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

You haven't read this? "Revelation 1:3
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."

And why do you think that a person cannot pray and prepare while also holding to "that blessed hope"?

"Stoned Prophet"... o.O

Last Edited by Keep2theCode on 05/28/2013 07:47 AM

i support you OP
not mainly with Verses but by context in them

see,
rapture hás to happen, befóre the start of the 1st white horse
[ which is False Light, and has Complete Dominion ]

suppose,
that evils dominion would happen befóre rapture ?
- then 6 billion souls would be Doomed.

so theres a compagny, 144000,
who He protected to be not Tricked before this false light will close off Heaven,
and these [ later named two witnesses] will still get out millions, who gót tricked

bless

Thank you, lone.

Another "macro" point that is often overlooked is that Daniel gives the expressed purpose of the final 7 years: to purge Israel and punish the unbelieving world. The church is neither of these, so nothing in those 7 years applies to us. And as I mentioned earlier about the seals possibly being before the AC signs the covenant, I completely agree with your reasons that the white horse (1st seal) must also be after the Rapture.

those, who think they believe in post-tribulation rapture,
are, with respect, naive and too immersed in Self still;

because they have really No Clue about Evil,
and how Evil is about to Take Over Consciousness.

..they expect some fake heroic standing martyrdome,
which is Utterly Useless.

since the whole point of rapture is,
that it is the Legal Moment, when He establishes His kingdom [ rev12:10 ]

so it is Useless to want to be ' martyrs' áfter that point in time.

but hey
i know very well i wont convince anyone.

i just say to those who sense:
i support you; dont give up; its about to happen any day now

bless

ufff OP now you get difficult onto me.

'israel '[ if you mean that little country] is but a total Hoax. And is satans counterfeit. It was satan himself who devised the false seperation between ' israel and the church ' . I dont blame you for thinking along these lines - because edom has been pressing this false theology for decades now. Just please wake up. There IS no 'difference ' between ' the church ' and ' this country israel'. BOTH are satans children.

then; there is no 'covenant that will be signed '. Dont wait for any visible AC. Because the ' man of sin ' does NOT refer to some visible antichrist: but to ' lightworkers who have completed ' . Meaning: humans, who have followed satan so much, that they became Images of satans energies.

Forget whatever happens in the Meast.
it was MENT to keep you blind.
and not see the false light coming upon you.

Well... that was quick. One minute you "support" me and the next you're telling me I need to "wake up"?

Is this thread about the Rapture or about Replacement Theology?

Are you yet another who didn't bother to read the OP?

Those are rhetorical questions. And if you want to know what I think about Replacement Theology, visit my blog.

in fact,
all these Mid and PoST rapture folks do nothing else

but like the jews in 70 AD

' fighting for jerusalem against the roman siege '

' expecting God to help them '

But He DIDNT.


because they refused to listen to His words of escape.

So it is now.

Stuuborn, naiv believers.
Who know all better as He.
Desiring ' post trib rapture ' .
Which is an axioma.

well
be it is they desire.

no OP i ve read your initial post and i agreed.
But then your response to my post contained possible heresies - thats all.

see; the opinion that pre-rapture will happen, is NOT because of the Hoax of the present ' country of israel' but for completely DIFferent reasons. Meaning: those, who support zionist-christianism, may be right in their pre-rapture: but THEY WONT BE RAPTURED, THEMSELVES.

Because they wish it for the wrong reason:
to sustain their own Ego
and to aid Satan.

bless

Possible heresies?

I'm sorry, but you're doing exactly what the anti-pre-tribbers have been doing: telling me I'm blind or been fooled and accept heresies. You don't know why people hold other opinions, that you can judge them egotistical. This is the kind of attitude that divides the Body of Christ.

I haven't judged you as a heretic or a fool or an egotist, even though I completely disagree with you about who the church is and who Israel is. I would hope that others would give me the same consideration, but that hope is gone.

re-posted for comments - I hope you all have a blessed day.

You're absolutely right! I also believe the Noah account is the lesser fulfillment and the rapture is the greater fulfillment.

God did have them enter in and He shut the door 7 days before the flood started. I believe this is symbolic of god's people (144k) being sealed before the great tribulation starts a we see from many scriptures in Revalation that those with the seal on their heads are protected. Revelation 7:3 ""Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." From what I've read, this is right before the 7th seal and before any of the trumpets.

Revelation 13:7 shows that "we", God's people will be there during the tribulation "It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them."

There are many other verses in Revelation that prove God's people will be there during the tribulation, too many to list.......

_______________________

Also interesting to note that there is 1260 days between the 6th and 7th trumpet.......i think........

In Revelation 11:18, at the 7th trumpet we see this "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

Revelation 12: 5-6 "And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne (jesus). The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days."

Revelation 12:14 "The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach."

The "woman" I believe is the 144k, as they are the "firstfruits" and they are taken out of here at that point, the 3.50 year mark. The rest of us are the woman's offspring who remain, unfortunately....atleast that's how I interpret it. The whole chapter of revelation 12 is very hard to interpret and understand who the symbolic characters are. The only one I'm 100% sure of is the "manchild" who is Jesus Christ. I believe the woman is the 144k and her offspring is the rest of the believers. I did a thread on revelation 12 before, but not many people were interested.

If this is correct, then the 7th trumpet blows at the 3.50 year mark........not the end of the 7th year....atleast that's how I'm interpreting it..........could be wrong.

After that, Revelation 12:17 "Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring — those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus." <--- the rest of us christians

Revelation 14:9-12 tells us what will happen next "A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus." <-------God's people still here on earth during the final 3.50 years.

Then time goes by, tribulation continues, many are beheaded for their faith, and then the final wrath and the earth is destroyed and Jesus reigns for 1000 years on a cleansed earth.

______________________________

But, now here's another important part about Noah........the ark didn't lift up until the 7th day.

The lifting up of the ark is the symbolism of the rapture, and it didn't happen until after the 7 days and at the start of the wrath of God, the destruction of the earth. Noah had to build his own ark and stock it full of supplies. It was his preparations that saved him and his family. God just told him what to do ahead of time and gave him advance warning.

Same with Joseph storing grain for the upcoming famine in Egypt and the 7 years of famine. Notice the 7 year reoccurring number? 7 days waiting for the ark to lift up when the rains came. 7 years famine in the land of Egypt, 7 year tribulation period at the end of this age.

Thread: Insight Into the Old Testament

Matthew 24:37 "As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man."

Th story of Lot and Sodom was also a lesser fulfillment of the final destruction of the earth.

The angels came and took Lot and his family out at the very day God poured out His wrath and destroyed the city. They were not taken out days, years, ahead of time. They were removed that very day.

Luke 17:28-29 "“It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all."

The bible is rock solid on the post tribulation.......there is no argument on it for someone who is a serious study on the scriptures.

Sorry again.....nobody really wants to prepare for tribulation, but the whole bible says that we will be there.

I absolutely could have my Revelation timeline wrong, it's very confusing.

But, I'm not wrong about Lot and Noah, and the words of jesus that tell us specifically that we will be here for the tribulation, and that nobody is taken out of here until the last trump....the rest of us, and the details are up for interpretation, but the basis is rock solid.

I do not care about any scriptures. I am in direct contact to Jesus Christ and he told me that the rapture will happen about 2 months after the start of the great tribulation. However, you can relax. At a maximum about 0,3 % of the population will leave the earth in a magical way. (20 million people). So you have a good chance to stay here.
Concerning preparation: You cannot prepare for the rapture. If you spread love and your life task is fulfilled and a new task waits for you then you will leave the earth.

I do not care about self-proclaimed prophets. I am in direct contact with the Holy Spirit and the scriptures, as is every truly saved person.

I have nothing to worry about, regardless of whose theory turns out to be right. But I am concerned that you may be contacting a lying spirit. The real Jesus rose physically from the dead and will return for his Bride, and only after that can the Antichrist appear and the Tribulation begin. Put your trust in the real Jesus alone, and you will be saved.

What is the "Last Trump?"

It has a very specific meaning in Judaism. It means the "Last Trump" of the shofar, which is always blown on Yom Teruah. (Rosh HaShaha)

[link to philologos.org]

The Apostle Paul wrote about the "Last Trump" in 1 Corinthians 15:52, when he told the Corinthians that:

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

[link to biblehub.com]

The thing is, this letter was written to the Corinthians by Paul while he was in Ephasus around 53-57 AD, before God revealed the mystery of the 7 trumpet judgments in the Book of Revelation to the Apostle John while in exile on the island of Patmos around 90 AD, some 33-37 years later, and after the sacking of Jerusalem. There is no evidense that Paul knew of the later-to-be-revealed 7 Trumpet Judgements over 3 decades before God revealed them to John.

It is clear then that Paul, a Jewish person, was referring to the Jewish "Last Trump" shofar calling of the people from the fields to the Yom Teruah festival in Jerusalem that all Jewish people at the time were well aware of. It's only today in our modern gentile Christian society, where we've long since forgotten our early Judeo-Christian roots (thanks to the Roman Catholic church), that we forget God's history and the meaning of God's holy feast days.

But some time soon, the shofar will sound again, perhaps on Yom Teruah, and it will gather the elect from the fields back to our Lord in His holy city. But this time that holy city will be in heaven. And that will be our rapture. Amen.

Peace

I am glad that you (think) to know everything about my contact to Jesus. Congrats!

Another excellent comment. Yes, it's the shofar and shout we listen for, the Christ coming in the clouds we look for. All other Rapture views must look for the Antichrist and his mark.

But I've raised the issue of the "last" trump before to that same person (don't recall if it was this thread), and the response was basically, "Last means last and the 7th trump of Rev. is the last of the last of the last, and it doesn't matter whether Paul knew about it, and there is no possible argument to refute this plain and simple proof". Yet we're the ones who allegedly don't want to talk.

I never said that. Congrats on burning a straw man.