Do you believe that Jesus REALLY existed?

"If you do, on what evidence do you base your conviction/belief? When I say evidence, I don't mean miracles and tradition, but scientific/historical/anthropological research."

Yes I believe he was a real person

You are saying "what evidence do you base your conviction/belief?" and then you say "I don't mean miracles and tradition" But the word "belief" necessarily means miracles and tradition and not scientific/historical/anthropological research.

A "belief" is never scientific.

I studied the bible as literature and nothing made sense to me until I actually had a personal experience with prayer. So, rather than answer the question the way you want it to be answered, I'm going to say yes I believe he was a historical person based on my personal experiences with prayer and the effects of prayers to Jesus in my life which led me to my "convictions" that he is real... which logically followed afterward, my decision to study the bible, especially the four gospels which describe his life and acts. The bible only made "sense" to me after believing in Jesus as a result of my experiences. Reading the bible in this light led me to understand that he was an actual historical person.

Add to all this the fact that not one person accurately recorded the date that Jesus was born. December 25th was created as the date of his supposed birth because it was celebrated at the time by the pagans as the winter solstice. Is it logical to believe a man existed if there is no accurate birth date?

Then we have the fact that Jesus did multitudes of miracles and not one person who lived at the time he supposedly lived recorded anything about them. Every single secular reference to Jesus was written years after he supposedly lived. Imagine people being brought out of the grave today, after rotting in the grave for a few days. Just that one miracle would be plastered everywhere on the news. The Egyptian people were meticulous record keepers and yet no one recorded any of this. There is actually more "historical" evidence for Hercules, than for Jesus.

Jesus miraculously is risen from the dead and hundreds of people witness this. But not one person writes this date down or records this in history. No one carved a bust of the head of Jesus. There is no history of what he did from the age of 12 until 30. Jesus is most certainly a mythical character. How could a star way, way up in the sky lead ANYONE to a stable? Any sane person knows this is the kind of story that is not based on truth. But, anyway, believe what you like.

Jesus didn't die and the bible says so. He survived the crucifxion, he was only in a coma, visited his friends and family and then boarded a craft for Syria where Saul met up with him two years later. He then went on to India , taught the rest of his life, married and had 5 kids. You bible tells you thru Saul. Except where the shit heads added he ascended into "heaven'. Well in a manner of speaking, he was taken out of there by method of ascending into a craft, to get him the hell out of that hell hole so he could continue his work. Which he did. He is remembered in India as St. Issa and he died at about 115 years of age in Srinagar, where his body is buried. These bodies do NOT go to heaven. They return to the dirt.

the folk in "heaven", do know the date of birth, and converted to our modern calendar was on August 21, 7 bc. so you ones 2012 has come and gone already for those buying that story.

I would suspect there are records in ROME that recorded the day of the crucifixion and that could be converted to modern calendars. In fact, it has, but not by rome as far as I know. It was Friday April 7,30 ad.

Last Edited by God Loves ALL on 11/29/2012 10:45 PM

It's 2012 CE.

That A.D. stuff went the way of the dodo when the unholy Roman empire that invented the term lost most of its power and influence in the century or so leading up to WWI.

There was no Jesus. You're worshipping a fabricated 'god'. You'd be better off worshipping a golden calf; at least, when melted down, it would have some intrinsic value.

yes. and i believe he was blond with blue eyes too

Absolutely I believe in the trinity of the Father/Son/Holy Spirit. Exactly how the trinity works is beyond my comrehension at present (3 persons = 1 God) but I will wait until the afterlife to have those questions answered.

Regarding a claim to inherent kinship with God, I have no right to make such a claim. I am created, not the creator nor any relation of his. However, when I accepted Jesus as my saviour, I became a Son of God via the process of adoption. This new position will be fully realised in the next life but for now I'm still a human with all the limitations and failings that go along with that status.

Not much more to be said really. OP asked a question and my answer is listed above. Any further off topic discussion should really have its own topic...

Of course Jesus didn't die; one must first EXIST before they can perish.

Everything after your first 3 words of that post are competely ridiculous BS, so whatever you're smoking, you might want to cut back.

Russ needs to stop this, Jesus does not support this calendar. This is sick use of this great mans holy beingness.

This is a picture from the akashic records of Jesus, Joseph of A, his younger brother James and Simon Peter.




Last Edited by God Loves ALL on 11/29/2012 10:49 PM

You can stop your BS I happen to know him personally and you can stick your head wherever it belongs on this one. He and I formed the 2nd Coming organization as he has returned. I talk to him every day and have sat many at time at the planning table with him and others for this world.

Last Edited by God Loves ALL on 11/29/2012 10:51 PM

Read this:

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Feel free to apologize.

I realize that there are many people suffereing from hysteria and delusions of all sorts but most of them at least TRY to keep it to themselves.

You, on the other hand, want everyone to know just how insane you are. And you've done a good job; you made it perfectly clear that you're a few fries short of a Happy Meal, and not worth taking seriously.

Can I interest you in some beachfront property in Utah?

I am truly sorry that you're batshit crazy. That's not an apology...just pity.


Of course, one must wonder why you would use wikipedia (of all things) as a 'source'...why not just ask your drinking buddy Jesus to stop by my place and give me the facts about his miraculous and divine life?

Wiki is one of many sources. Clearly you didn't read it. Here's an excerpt:

Testimonium Flavianum

“ Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.[47] ”

The Testimonium Flavianum (meaning the testimony of Flavius [Josephus]) is the name given to the passage found in Book 18, Chapter 3, 3 of the Antiquities in which Josephus describes the condemnation and crucifixion of Jesus at the hands of the Roman authorities.[48][11] The Testimonium is likely the most discussed passage in Josephus and perhaps in all ancient literature.[1]
The earliest secure reference to this passage is found in the writings of the fourth-century Christian apologist and historian Eusebius, who used Josephus' works extensively as a source for his own Historia Ecclesiastica. Writing no later than 324,[49] Eusebius quotes the passage[50] in essentially the same form as that preserved in extant manuscripts. It has therefore been suggested that part or all of the passage may have been Eusebius' own invention, in order to provide an outside Jewish authority for the life of Christ.[51][52] However, it is also possible that others, including the third-century patristic writer Origen also knew of the passage. Although Origen makes no direct reference to the Testimonium, scholars such as Louis Feldman and Zvi Baras have presented arguments that Origen may have seen a copy of the Testimonium and not commented on it for there was no need to complain about its tone.[53][54]

Of the three passages found in Josephus' Antiquities, this passage, if authentic, would offer the most direct support for the crucifixion of Jesus. The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus with a reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate which was then subject to interpolation.[11][12][13][14] James Dunn states that there is "broad consensus" among scholars regarding the nature of an authentic reference to Jesus in the Testimonium and what the passage would look like without the interpolations.[15] Among other things, the authenticity of this passage would help make sense of the later reference in Josephus Antiquities of the Jews Book 20, Chapter 9, 1 where Josephus refers to the stoning of "James the brother of Jesus". A number of scholars argue that the reference to Jesus in this later passage as "the aforementioned Christ" relates to the earlier reference in the Testimonium.[1][2][55]
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Here is what Tacitus wrote concerning the history of Jesus, and the existence of Christians in Rome:

"But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the price could bestow, nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished with the most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also." (Annals XV, 44)1

Here is what Tacitus wrote concerning the history of Jesus, and the existence of Christians in Rome:

"But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the price could bestow, nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished with the most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also." (Annals XV, 44)1

The Mathew 21:12 one; that overturned the tables of the moneychangers and got crucified/// that one did...

the rest is bullshit.

Look up the Shroud of Turin. There was a scientific study done on it.

Read Josh McDowell's "More than A Carpenter"!

aside from all the angry back and forth on this thread, people are offering some fascinating stuff.

lots to think about.

thanx guys!

Ah yes, and of which Jesus would you have photographed? The Blue-eyed gentile version the Catholics idolize or maybe the Arab looking one that was probably closer to true form?

My personal favorite is the nappy headed Jesus with African features sitting at the last supper with 12 men who have similar traits.

Jesus, party of 13, your table is ready!!!

Made up BS based on your own opinion.

The debate whether or not Jesus existed is a new age one. Up until about the last 100 years, everyone considered it fact that a man named Jesus existed, they just questioned his divinity. There are numerous historical accounts outside of the bible. That being the case. Jesus Christ is the son of the one and only God, and the only way to go to heaven. People will try to argue the following fact, but the reality is the bible has been correct 100% of the time both historically and prophetically. It also describes the true nature of mankind to 'T'. Some brief examples concerning Biblical accuracy: they have found archaeological proof of the exodus, as well as egyptian records documenting tehe 10 plagues of pharaoh. Approximately 2000 years later, we are closer than ever before to the 'New World Order,' the one world government/religion that was prophesied in the Bible. Aside from that, the powers that be, the secret societies, not only believe in Jesus and the bible as they teach the 'evil God' wanted to keep man from becoming gods and that 'Jesus was evil' they actually worship Lucifer, and commit mass rituals based on the teachings of professed satanist Allister Crowley (i.e. 9/11 (see book 'The Most Dangerous Book in the world:9/11 mass ritual'). With all that being stated, there has also been around 9 cases of Blood rain, lakes, and other bodies of water, mass species deaths, signs in the earth and the skies that indicate the end times according to Bible Prophecy. If you wanna know how to be saved, or no more about Jesus Christ and how he fulfilled the role as the Saviour for mankind, you may email me gimmiethatchedda@yahoo.com

I pray that God blesses you and opens your eyes to the truth. Best of wishes friends.

Ps. Don't ever listen to anything this guy says, he's always spewing new age lies.

In open it started in the 18th century AD. The Christian churches were so strong you wouldnt be able to express such a thought in public and escape with it in previous times.
(thought we know of the various beliefs of groups within the church from the several councils data we have).

Personally i dont think it is totally fiction. They say "there is no smoke without fire" so i think there must have been a historic person in the backround there but most of his life's stories are probably just imagination and have a teaching role.

More evidence for the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny


idiots

Jesus was a historical figure, so you can't logically deny he existed. But what you do about him, is the important thing.

Attention all you who are deceived and deny the divinity and truth of Jesus Christ/God.... Approximately 2000 years later, we are closer than ever before to the 'New World Order,' the one world government/religion that was prophesied in the Bible. Aside from that, the powers that be, the secret societies, not only believe in Jesus and the bible as they teach the 'evil God' wanted to keep man from becoming gods and that 'Jesus was evil' they actually worship Lucifer, and commit mass rituals based on the teachings of professed satanist Allister Crowley (i.e. 9/11 (see book 'The Most Dangerous Book in the world:9/11 mass ritual'). With all that being stated, there has also been around 9 cases of Blood rain, lakes, and other bodies of water, mass species deaths, signs in the earth and the skies that indicate the end times according to Bible Prophecy. do the research. Need I say more?

This says it best
The Proof and Evidence is Clear – Jesus Christ Really Existed

[link to beginningandend.com]