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Message Subject Christian here, talk to me:
Poster Handle Anonymous Coward
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So, what exactly are you attempting to communicate?

You've thrown a lot of accusations out, but I'm not quite sure where they're founded in. I'm going to pray for you, Aussie friend. You sound like someone who has never really experienced peace.

I do not agree with Sharia law. I believe in making approaches in kindness, gentleness and meekness. Browbeating someone because they refuse to believe what I believe does not push the point across.

I think a few posts back you mentioned something about only being able to pay attention to what Je'sus said, but paying no attention to what his disciples said later.

To this effect I ask, if these disciples were good enough for Je'sus Himself, why would they not be good enough for you? Paul was a righteous man, and Peter was too (but he had one exceedingly foot-shaped mouth).

Friend, if you're living under the Spirit of God, you are not living under the law.
 Quoting: Nothing 9906991


Don't pray for me...please... It is breaking a spiritual law... Plus I am not quite sure who you actually are praying to.

You are reading your Bible with one eye closed.

Remind yourself of how Jesus became frustrated at times because people just didn't get it!

The first considerations for you regarding Paul (Sorry this is long)

1.What did Jesus say in Matthew 23 about Pharisees.

[link to www.biblegateway.com]

Now I was only really interested in one of the Pharisees – Paul

Acts 23:6 “But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.”

WOW! So now where does Paul show his true Pharisee colours? Remember Satan is rather tricky and devious according to you guys!

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”


Where did Jesus preach this? So by posting here as a woman are women breaking a law, a commandment stated by Paul! I know he is wrong, but do you?

But there is more -

1 Timothy 2:11-14 “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”


So if a woman is trying to teach a man, by posting here, they are also breaking a law stated by Paul! I know he is wrong, but do you?

Paul was just a man! And yet he continued the discrimination against women for a further 2000 years and beyond!

1 Corinthians 11:6 For if a woman is not covered, let her also be shorn. But if it is shameful for a woman to be shorn or shaved, let her be covered.

Where did Paul's righteousness disappear to?

Yes this one Pharisee has authorized 50% of the population to be discriminated against!

So if you believe Paul - should women stop talking on religious matters and only discuss things with their husbands?

I'm sure you have missed most of this in your studies BUT I am opening your closed eye.

Also note - Paul lied in 1 Timothy 2:11-14 to justify his oppression of women “And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.”


What Adam didn't eat of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil? Adam wasn't tempted? That is totally untrue!

Genesis 3:6 "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."

But there is an even bigger problem!

God gave Moses the Ten Commandments.

Jesus (the Son of God) gave two commandments although the first is re-stating Commandment 1 of the 10 commandments.

Mark 12:30-31 "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

And the second like it, is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these."


Are commandments laws? So much for not living under the law!

But hang on Paul a man, and a Pharisee (remind yourself about what Jesus thought of Pharisees in Matthew 23) says this –

1 Corinthians 14:37 “If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.”

Can a man make a commandment – Answer NO! Paul certainly got a bit full of himself here. But no-one notices... Did you know he wrote these things?

If these are commandments from the Lord as Paul claims you had better by some shears to get those uncovered heads in Church shorn. 1rof1

Jesus (the Son of God) made 1 extra commandment BUT Paul says all his instructions are commandments!

So you see your dilemma. Everything Paul said was a commandment from the Lord, he mentions "the law" when telling women to refer to their husbands only, and he teaches things Jesus never said. Should women be shorn?

So who do you believe Jesus or Paul?

If you believe in Jesus’, the Son of God's teachings over Paul’s teachings why hasn’t anyone pointed this out to you?

Why didn’t you notice these problems? If you didn't you are studying poorly.

Why didn't your Preacher teach you this vital information?

I didn't say don't pay attention to the disciples... I said men are often wrong.

Paul is obviously wrong but in his being wrong he wrongs 50% of the population in one fell swoop - WOMEN!

Do you still wish to maintain Paul's righteousness or is that just another Bible Babble word?

So here you have a set of books called the Bible where you can intimately study what Jesus (the Son of GOD says) is alleged to have said and yet you keep wanting to study and quote man.

May your eyes be opened so that you might see!

Please pray for yourself!

peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661



Friend, instead of taking one verse and using to to convey a meaning, use a few verses up, and a few verses down.

Single verses by themselves also have context to the chapter they are written in.

Also, bear in mind the purpose of the epistles to the churches was because they had already gotten off-base from the original visits.

I pray to Yeshua, and will continue to pray to Yeshua; because He IS the Son of God.

And I will maintain that Paul was indeed righteous.
I will not pray to Paul, but I will maintain that he was a righteous man indeed. The Lord used him to do much work.

Will continue to pray for you, friend.
Take care.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9906991


Fell free to stay blind... It is your choice!

If you still consider Paul as righteous after all I have shown you the so be it. I can only show you what the Bible says... I can't force you to understand it.

Thanks for the advice about reading multiple verses... Do you take your own advice? 1rof1

Please don't call me friend it makes you sound insincere. I am NOT your friend!

Also do not pray for me ... I have asked, now I insist!

You are probably a nice person... naive but nice!

ohyeah
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


I probably came across as a bit harsh in this last post and I wasn't meaning to be.

The point I am making regarding Paul is this.

If Paul's terribly flawed teachings on women have caused women to be oppressed by religions and society for a further nearly 2000 years, and those teachings are not what Jesus taught, then they are ONLY the teachings of man.

If a person, like Paul, can cause such oppression to 50% of the population over such a long period how can he be called righteous?

Sure he did some good things - like all of us - but the acceptance of this sort of oppression is unfathomable and unconscionable, isn't it?

The passage that echoes in my mind is this one

Mark 7:7-9 Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.

For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.”

Then he said, “You skilfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition.


So based on Paul's teachings added to the effects of those teachings and the differences between those and Jesus' teachings I can't accept Paul as anything more than a man with an opinion.

If we are judged on sin, by GOD, then Paul's oppressive teachings, about women, have to be up there with some of the most horrendous teachings ever.

Ignore them if you choose... BUT I will not and can not!

People have to study the Bible with an analytical mind, afterall that is one of your gifts from GOD. Weren't we made in his image?

To study it with a totally accepting mind, reading over the atrocities and the oppression and believing they are from GOD says to me at least that you just can't be using the most precious gift from GOD - your inquiring minds.

BUT worse - believing that GOD inspired such atrocities and the oppression of women so eagerly picked up by the churches to me is the greatest insult to GOD.

He wouldn't agree to such things!

I guess I defend GOD more than so called Christians do because I refuse to believe that he could be evil in the ways the Bible presents.

My final piece of evidence for your consideration and to prove my point about man's teachings being represented as from GOD.

According to the GOOD Book he allegedly condones terminations and using curses to test a woman's fidelity.

What is the test for a man's fidelity?

If this wasn't so serious it would be laughable!

Numbers 5:16-22 (NIV) “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord."

Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water.

After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.

Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you.

But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”—

here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell.

May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”

“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”


Do you really believe GOD would have ordered MOSES to instruct the priests to put "tabernacle dust in the holy water"?

How can anyone believe for a second GOD would give such an outrageously stupid & obscene instruction?

Dusty water anyone?

peace
 
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