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what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???

 
Anonymous Coward
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11/29/2012 09:48 PM
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what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
i recently stumbled upon this would like more insight please glp if you know help me out. thank you.
Anonymous Coward
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11/29/2012 09:55 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
in the united states, there is no advantage. it is a concept of law not recognized by our legal system. it does work in canada though, from what i have heard.
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
11/29/2012 10:13 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
It doesn't work anywhere. They still lock your ass up when you don't pay taxes and give you a $10,000 fine when you drive without a licence and insurance.

I wish it worked, believe me. And I studied it hoping to find it would. Some of it may be correct, for instance, we do have a right to travel on the highways. Driving is a right. In 2007 I went up on a driving without insurance charge. I found a BC Provincial Supreme Court case from 1956 where the judges ruled that driving is a right. They said we still have to prove proficiency in automobile driving. but once that is done, there is no further limits to that right.

I brought that into court and argued based on that, mandatory auto insurance is an infringement on my rights to travel the king's highways. The judge totaly ignored the part that said the right goes back to "times immemorial" and ruled that the decision is too old, cancelled out by new legislation and basicaly, fuck you and your rights that go back 800 or 1000 years.

Even when you have them beat on a legal ground that is not even questionable, they just ignore it and find you guilty. When you start talking personal sovreignty to a judge, it's just immediate, you're fucking guilty.

Read up on because there is some interresting material there and some, a few, legal techniques do work. Just don't believe everything you hear. 99% is uttter bullshit.
Goodmen
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11/29/2012 10:16 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Its a total scam with Legal mumbo jumbo where you supposidly have some Magic words you can say and the Courts cannot touch you-

Look up Rob Menard fraud (a canadian Conman) for some good info on the scam- It works much the same in the USA.

The whole FMOTL concept is just...Well...Crazy. If you try it- You will be in trouble. If you drive without Plates and Insurance- You will be in trouble.

The Gurus who teach this stuff have never used it themselves where it has worked but "sell" the process to others who end up losing everything and sometimes even their freedom.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14667725
Poland
11/29/2012 10:16 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
you say them you do not care about their laws - they do not care that you do not care.
you say they act against your religin to you, stilll.....

yeah...

build a spaceship, go to another planet

meditate
Goodmen
User ID: 16778386
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11/29/2012 10:17 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
you say them you do not care about their laws - they do not care that you do not care.
you say they act against your religin to you, stilll.....

yeah...

build a spaceship, go to another planet

meditate
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


LOL- Right.
Anonymous Coward
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Poland
11/29/2012 10:18 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
learn good german go to switzerland
Goodmen
User ID: 16778386
United States
11/29/2012 10:20 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Here ya go Buddy. [link to 67.228.115.45] its nearly 200 pages long but gets very, very in depth and interesting.

Rob menard is a popular Guru up in canada who sells programs for this and gives lectures... Watch him personally come defend his claims and be utterly destroyed, caught in lies and...Well...proven to be a fraud in the end.

Yet he still is selling his bullshit to gullible people .
Fred
User ID: 21515285
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11/29/2012 10:23 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Disadvantages winding up in jail because you don't obey easy to obey laws. If the laws had an opt out don't you think every rich persons lawyer would be advising them to say the magic opt out words?
422

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11/29/2012 10:29 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
The current "justice" system is based on fiction, deception, and trickery. It can not hold itself up and its only a matter of time before the Truth prevails.
“You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.” John Adams, Second President of the United States
Goodmen
User ID: 16778386
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11/29/2012 10:29 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Disadvantages winding up in jail because you don't obey easy to obey laws. If the laws had an opt out don't you think every rich persons lawyer would be advising them to say the magic opt out words?
 Quoting: Fred 21515285


THIS^^^^^^^

Whats also funny is when I debate these people (who claim the Judges all know these "magic words" and have to obey) I bring up Judges being imprisoned and busted for things- Including Links- And I ask why the judge didnt just use the FMOTL concept... Or why judges dont just "claim houses" with a newspaper ad (another scam they pitch)-

Of coarse this is never answered. I am told- "If you want to be a slave, dont believe us" - or I am a "shill".

But these people are conmen. making cash selling bullshit dreams and getting their "followers" in lots of trouble. Recently a couple who used menards program for claiming houses (with newspaper ads) were jailed for B and E... Of coarse he closed the thread on his Forum... They are excellent at censorship on their own forums.
Anonymous Coward
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11/29/2012 10:30 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Its a total scam with Legal mumbo jumbo where you supposidly have some Magic words you can say and the Courts cannot touch you-

Look up Rob Menard fraud (a canadian Conman) for some good info on the scam- It works much the same in the USA.

The whole FMOTL concept is just...Well...Crazy. If you try it- You will be in trouble. If you drive without Plates and Insurance- You will be in trouble.

The Gurus who teach this stuff have never used it themselves where it has worked but "sell" the process to others who end up losing everything and sometimes even their freedom.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


That's pretty much what it is. It's a mixture of 50% pipe dreams, 49% legal rediculousness and 1% actual argueable legal position.

On a very small number of points they are correct, however, the valid legal points get lost in all that shit and rediculousness, they never have a chance. But even when you separate the rediculous from the 1% and go with the 1% you still get shot down.

I'll give you another example. It is a long acknowlwdged principle of justice going back to the Roman Empire 2000 years ago that the law cannot compel a person to do something that is impossible. For instance there can never be a law that states you have to jump in the air and remain there for 10 minutes at the request of a peace officer. That's simply not possible. Gravity makes it impossible.

I was caught driving without my licence with me a few years ago. Naturaly it was impossible for me to hand it to the police officer. I was ticketed for "failure to hand over licence." I argued that since I didn't have the licence in my posession, it was impossible for me to hand it over. The law cannot compel me to do that which is impossible. I said the charge should be "failure to carry licence on my person while driving." That is not impossible.

The prosecutor didn't even have a satisfactory rebuttal for my defense. Again, the judge totaly ingored that 2000 year old principle of justice and found me guilty. In the end, if they want you guilty, you're guilty. You start challenging their system, you're guilty.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
11/29/2012 10:32 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
It should work in the US. You just have to make it your religion. It is against my religion to place a king or ruler before God therefore I shall not obey any who is not God such as a president or police officer. Then you just use the freedom of religion defense.
Anonymous Coward
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Poland
11/29/2012 10:32 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
just trick the fckn sistema by not be registered in this and that, before underskin chips come
Goodmen
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11/29/2012 10:32 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
The current "justice" system is based on fiction, deception, and trickery. It can not hold itself up and its only a matter of time before the Truth prevails.
 Quoting: 422


Excellent. Are you a FMOTL? Its only a fiction if it isnt enforced... Me saying I can claim a house IS a fiction. Laws are "fictions" only if they are not enforced.

Go drink and drive and flip off a cop while doing it (of coarse without plates and insurance since those are fictions as well) then tell them the law is a fiction and see what happens- you wil be paying your lawyer and fines with your fictional fiat dollars which you will earn with REAL sweat- once you get out of real jail.
Goodmen
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11/29/2012 10:34 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
It should work in the US. You just have to make it your religion. It is against my religion to place a king or ruler before God therefore I shall not obey any who is not God such as a president or police officer. Then you just use the freedom of religion defense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


...Are you serious?

Ummm. Doesnt work that way- Even close.

Sometimes I think some people post just to hear themselves type. That is some really, really bad advice.
Anonymous Coward
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Poland
11/29/2012 10:35 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???

I'll give you another example. It is a long acknowlwdged principle of justice going back to the Roman Empire 2000 years ago that the law cannot compel a person to do something that is impossible. For instance there can never be a law that states you have to jump in the air and remain there for 10 minutes at the request of a peace officer. That's simply not possible. Gravity makes it impossible.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


will u marry me?
Anonymous Coward
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11/29/2012 10:35 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
It should work in the US. You just have to make it your religion. It is against my religion to place a king or ruler before God therefore I shall not obey any who is not God such as a president or police officer. Then you just use the freedom of religion defense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


...Are you serious?

Ummm. Doesnt work that way- Even close.

Sometimes I think some people post just to hear themselves type. That is some really, really bad advice.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


It's easy to say it's bad advice, but is it easy to say why it's bad advice?
DonHeau

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11/29/2012 10:36 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
About the same...
We opened doors by thinking.
Anonymous Coward
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Poland
11/29/2012 10:37 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
It should work in the US. You just have to make it your religion. It is against my religion to place a king or ruler before God therefore I shall not obey any who is not God such as a president or police officer. Then you just use the freedom of religion defense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


tried that, does not work
Anonymous Coward
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11/29/2012 10:37 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
The advantages are you no longer have to pay taxes or obey the law. The disadvantage is that federal agents will come and kill you.
Anonymous Coward
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11/29/2012 10:39 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
It should work in the US. You just have to make it your religion. It is against my religion to place a king or ruler before God therefore I shall not obey any who is not God such as a president or police officer. Then you just use the freedom of religion defense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


tried that, does not work
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


First it works best if it's actually your religion, which is to say you didn't make something up just to declare sovereignty. If it's real then your arguments can shoot down anything the prosecution throws at you.
Goodmen
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11/29/2012 10:41 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
It should work in the US. You just have to make it your religion. It is against my religion to place a king or ruler before God therefore I shall not obey any who is not God such as a president or police officer. Then you just use the freedom of religion defense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


...Are you serious?

Ummm. Doesnt work that way- Even close.

Sometimes I think some people post just to hear themselves type. That is some really, really bad advice.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


It's easy to say it's bad advice, but is it easy to say why it's bad advice?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


Yes, Freedom of Religion has no bearing on criminal law.

Years ago a group tried to form under a "Church of Cannabis" in order to claim that their use of cannabis was a religion. They even built an actual church. They were not exempt from the law and were arrested for use or possesion.

Even native Americans only recently (last 10 years I think- Could be wrong) in certain tribes were allowed to perform some of their ceremonies because it used Illicit Drugs (Peyote) although it was an Ancient Ritual-

I really cannot believe you are asking "why" that is bad advice.

Think of it this way- if that were the case can you imagine the plethora of religions which would form allowing you to skirt any and every law?

...
Anonymous Coward
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11/29/2012 10:41 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
The current "justice" system is based on fiction, deception, and trickery. It can not hold itself up and its only a matter of time before the Truth prevails.
 Quoting: 422


That may be true, but right now they own the system and you're not getting out without a fine. In fact in Canada it is a fact that if you demand your right to a trial on a charge like an auto insurance fine you automaticly get double the fine you would have if you had just plead guilty.

I've gone both ways. It's a thousand if you plead and 3500 if you go to court. You're fucking guilty no matter what either way. I can tell you why they do that.

The first time I went in and asked for a trial there was a docket of about 150 cases in the court that morning. One ofter the other we all waited our turn. I was the only one to demand a trial. Judge sent me to the clerk's office to book a date. I went in there and the clerk pulled out the schedule book and opened it up to the first available day. There was a total of 6 slots open. Three in the morning and three in the afternoon. You tell me how they're going to fit 150 trials into 6 slots for that entire week?

If everybody who went in there in one day said fuck it I demand a trial... there would be an immediate 25 week backup of cases. Next week it would be 49 week backup. In one month it would be two years and every case thereafter would have to be thrown out on speedy trial grounds. That's why they don't want you going to trial.

If we all had the guts to bite the bullet and go to trial on everything, none of us would ever reach court. That's how close (and how far) we are from winning.
Anonymous Coward
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Poland
11/29/2012 10:41 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
It should work in the US. You just have to make it your religion. It is against my religion to place a king or ruler before God therefore I shall not obey any who is not God such as a president or police officer. Then you just use the freedom of religion defense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


tried that, does not work
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


First it works best if it's actually your religion, which is to say you didn't make something up just to declare sovereignty. If it's real then your arguments can shoot down anything the prosecution throws at you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


let's make it even more interesting... that is why eastern wars are still on? but that is not the topic please
Anonymous Coward
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11/29/2012 10:43 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
It should work in the US. You just have to make it your religion. It is against my religion to place a king or ruler before God therefore I shall not obey any who is not God such as a president or police officer. Then you just use the freedom of religion defense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


...Are you serious?

Ummm. Doesnt work that way- Even close.

Sometimes I think some people post just to hear themselves type. That is some really, really bad advice.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


It's easy to say it's bad advice, but is it easy to say why it's bad advice?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


Yes, Freedom of Religion has no bearing on criminal law.

Years ago a group tried to form under a "Church of Cannabis" in order to claim that their use of cannabis was a religion. They even built an actual church. They were not exempt from the law and were arrested for use or possesion.

Even native Americans only recently (last 10 years I think- Could be wrong) in certain tribes were allowed to perform some of their ceremonies because it used Illicit Drugs (Peyote) although it was an Ancient Ritual-

I really cannot believe you are asking "why" that is bad advice.

Think of it this way- if that were the case can you imagine the plethora of religions which would form allowing you to skirt any and every law?

...
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Like I said earlier it must be a real religion, not something made up just to get around certain laws. The fact is that following a president condemns one to hell. I'm willing to go to jail for my beliefs because they are real.
Anonymous Coward
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Poland
11/29/2012 10:44 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
AUM
Goodmen
User ID: 16778386
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11/29/2012 10:45 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
It should work in the US. You just have to make it your religion. It is against my religion to place a king or ruler before God therefore I shall not obey any who is not God such as a president or police officer. Then you just use the freedom of religion defense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


tried that, does not work
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


First it works best if it's actually your religion, which is to say you didn't make something up just to declare sovereignty. If it's real then your arguments can shoot down anything the prosecution throws at you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


-Even then you are NOT exempt.

Criminal law cannot be changed. The Mormons are not allowed to marry more than 1 Woman (although their religion was founded on Polygamy and backed by biblical verse) and regardless of your religion you still must abide by consent age laws.

This is going off topic though- Lots of stuff on google I am sure as to what limits are placed (and there are many)-
422

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11/29/2012 10:45 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
The current "justice" system is based on fiction, deception, and trickery. It can not hold itself up and its only a matter of time before the Truth prevails.
 Quoting: 422


Excellent. Are you a FMOTL? Its only a fiction if it isnt enforced... Me saying I can claim a house IS a fiction. Laws are "fictions" only if they are not enforced.

Go drink and drive and flip off a cop while doing it (of coarse without plates and insurance since those are fictions as well) then tell them the law is a fiction and see what happens- you wil be paying your lawyer and fines with your fictional fiat dollars which you will earn with REAL sweat- once you get out of real jail.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Just because evil and corruption have enforcers does not mean it is right. People will look back in hindsight at these times and laugh at how much shit humans put up with. You have been programmed from day 1 to conform and obey no matter the law, code or statute. The United States has become nothing but a nation of "laws". Tens of thousands of laws on the books that even the judges can't keep up with. Producing more and more criminals out of everyday people. It is people like you that will be laughed at in the end. Truth always prevails in the end. Corruption knows no bounds and it will destroy itself.
“You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.” John Adams, Second President of the United States
Goodmen
User ID: 16778386
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11/29/2012 10:46 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Actually, freedom of religion according to the Constitution means that Congress cannot pass any laws respecting the establishment of religion, e.g. Congress cannot deem Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam or any other religion as official nor can they create a State religion. It also prohibits the government from interfering with the practice of one's religion so long as it is practiced within the laws of the United States. Abortion and gay rights has less to do with religion than it does the American value of life (hence the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in the Declaration of Independence and the right to life, liberty and property under due process of the law according to the 14th Amendment of the Constitution)
The limitations on religious freedom primarily come in where there is a conflict between the practice of religion and local, state or federal laws. And in rare instances when a child's health depends on medical treatment that a particular religion otherwise prohibits, the Courts may decide to overrule religious freedom of the parents for the safety, health and welfare of that child.
Freedom of religion is not limited by hate speech, in fact, hate speech is not limited at all. It is still a part of the protections afforded under the 1st Amendment.
Anonymous Coward
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11/29/2012 10:47 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
-Even then you are NOT exempt.

Criminal law cannot be changed. The Mormons are not allowed to marry more than 1 Woman (although their religion was founded on Polygamy and backed by biblical verse) and regardless of your religion you still must abide by consent age laws.

This is going off topic though- Lots of stuff on google I am sure as to what limits are placed (and there are many)-
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Well then I suppose the Mormons forsake their own God because they are not willing to follow their own beliefs in the face of persecution. I'm not Mormon, but I will not allow any made up law to come between me and God.

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