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what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20901334
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11/29/2012 10:48 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Here is my take on it.

Fact: their "laws" do not apply equally to those who make the laws.

Therefore, they cannot be laws at all, there must be agreement the law makers have jurisdiction over me. I have asked for proof and they have never provided it.

Oh and I defy anyone on this thread to prove jurisdiction over me.
Anonymous Coward
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Poland
11/29/2012 10:48 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
rewind

anything to do about that?
Goodmen
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11/29/2012 10:50 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
The current "justice" system is based on fiction, deception, and trickery. It can not hold itself up and its only a matter of time before the Truth prevails.
 Quoting: 422


Excellent. Are you a FMOTL? Its only a fiction if it isnt enforced... Me saying I can claim a house IS a fiction. Laws are "fictions" only if they are not enforced.

Go drink and drive and flip off a cop while doing it (of coarse without plates and insurance since those are fictions as well) then tell them the law is a fiction and see what happens- you wil be paying your lawyer and fines with your fictional fiat dollars which you will earn with REAL sweat- once you get out of real jail.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Just because evil and corruption have enforcers does not mean it is right. People will look back in hindsight at these times and laugh at how much shit humans put up with. You have been programmed from day 1 to conform and obey no matter the law, code or statute. The United States has become nothing but a nation of "laws". Tens of thousands of laws on the books that even the judges can't keep up with. Producing more and more criminals out of everyday people. It is people like you that will be laughed at in the end. Truth always prevails in the end. Corruption knows no bounds and it will destroy itself.
 Quoting: 422


Okay. You make some interesting points. its ALL a fiction. its ALL the law of the jungle. You have nothing more than you can protect and when you are old, weak or sick others could take it because there really is no law.

Might makes right. That is the law.

"Law" since Hammurabi is a collective set of values we agree upon (or is imposed upon us) but everything is a fiction. Sure. But its enforced by people with more power than you.

Nations are fictions as well- But ...

You are taking a philosophy and trying to place it in reality. Philosophically its all a fiction.
Anonymous Coward
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Poland
11/29/2012 10:51 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Here is my take on it.

Fact: their "laws" do not apply equally to those who make the laws.

Therefore, they cannot be laws at all, there must be agreement the law makers have jurisdiction over me. I have asked for proof and they have never provided it.

Oh and I defy anyone on this thread to prove jurisdiction over me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


good one
Alexander

User ID: 15635858
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11/29/2012 10:52 PM

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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
In a word (based on past painful financial experince regarding this) DON"T. You'd never collect your social security benefits or medicare - and that's just for starters. Being hounded by the IRS, legal fees to defend your stance and the sheer emotional stress from embarking on this path isn't worth it. The last guy and friend that we know who took this path developed stomach cancer from all the stress and is now dead.
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.
Winston Churchill
Anonymous Coward
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11/29/2012 10:53 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
And, anyone who goes to their private courts and argues they are free is NOT free and doing it wrong.

My freedom is not in question, my freedom is self evident and endowed by my creator, there is nothing for me to argue with any other man who believes he has authority to rule over me and subject me to his rule.

Yes, that includes YOU, judge jack off. Take your STATUTES and shove them, on the record, of course.
Goodmen
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11/29/2012 10:53 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
-Even then you are NOT exempt.

Criminal law cannot be changed. The Mormons are not allowed to marry more than 1 Woman (although their religion was founded on Polygamy and backed by biblical verse) and regardless of your religion you still must abide by consent age laws.

This is going off topic though- Lots of stuff on google I am sure as to what limits are placed (and there are many)-
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Well then I suppose the Mormons forsake their own God because they are not willing to follow their own beliefs in the face of persecution. I'm not Mormon, but I will not allow any made up law to come between me and God.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


okay- If your god demands you break some made up law you can be sure he will bless your time in prison for going there in his name.

Happened to some of Christs disciples- Suffering for your God is par for the coarse. But just be clear- Freedom of religion does NOT make you exempt from the law.

But your God will protect you, right? Or if not- It was "the plan" all along. His will- If you will. =P
Anonymous Coward
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Poland
11/29/2012 10:53 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
i do not recall anyone asking me if i want to take part in this law/country/whatever thing.

i can change my life/name of god/mark of beer, but not the law, it is the NWO or what?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19588417
United States
11/29/2012 10:55 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
The current "justice" system is based on fiction, deception, and trickery. It can not hold itself up and its only a matter of time before the Truth prevails.
 Quoting: 422


Excellent. Are you a FMOTL? Its only a fiction if it isnt enforced... Me saying I can claim a house IS a fiction. Laws are "fictions" only if they are not enforced.

Go drink and drive and flip off a cop while doing it (of coarse without plates and insurance since those are fictions as well) then tell them the law is a fiction and see what happens- you wil be paying your lawyer and fines with your fictional fiat dollars which you will earn with REAL sweat- once you get out of real jail.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Just because evil and corruption have enforcers does not mean it is right. People will look back in hindsight at these times and laugh at how much shit humans put up with. You have been programmed from day 1 to conform and obey no matter the law, code or statute. The United States has become nothing but a nation of "laws". Tens of thousands of laws on the books that even the judges can't keep up with. Producing more and more criminals out of everyday people. It is people like you that will be laughed at in the end. Truth always prevails in the end. Corruption knows no bounds and it will destroy itself.
 Quoting: 422


Okay. You make some interesting points. its ALL a fiction. its ALL the law of the jungle. You have nothing more than you can protect and when you are old, weak or sick others could take it because there really is no law.

Might makes right. That is the law.

"Law" since Hammurabi is a collective set of values we agree upon (or is imposed upon us) but everything is a fiction. Sure. But its enforced by people with more power than you.

Nations are fictions as well- But ...

You are taking a philosophy and trying to place it in reality. Philosophically its all a fiction.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Something that's not fiction: Real laws cannot be broken, "Laws" as you define them are not laws, but fiction. If you agree to obey something that does not exist I wouldn't go about complaining about your ills, you agreed to live in a fantasy world therefore your problems are your own fault.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
11/29/2012 10:57 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
okay- If your god demands you break some made up law you can be sure he will bless your time in prison for going there in his name.

Happened to some of Christs disciples- Suffering for your God is par for the coarse. But just be clear- Freedom of religion does NOT make you exempt from the law.

But your God will protect you, right? Or if not- It was "the plan" all along. His will- If you will. =P
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


My God does not command me to do anything. To obey fictional laws is to live in prison. Those who would throw me in prison are already in prison themselves for they are not free from the fictions they believe in.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20901334
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11/29/2012 10:57 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
In a word (based on past painful financial experince regarding this) DON"T. You'd never collect your social security benefits or medicare - and that's just for starters. Being hounded by the IRS, legal fees to defend your stance and the sheer emotional stress from embarking on this path isn't worth it. The last guy and friend that we know who took this path developed stomach cancer from all the stress and is now dead.
 Quoting: Alexander


The IRS? Why would a free man use Federal Reserve debt to handle his private business?

Remedy is in their law, demand lawful money per 12 USC 411 and do not endorse their slave system, there is no freedom without lawful money!

As for the rest, we are all going to DIE, better to die fighting the SCUM who have set themselves up as gods on earth than to live as a coward and slave.

Your friend died a hero and is more free now than most will ever know.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14667725
Poland
11/29/2012 10:58 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
...


Excellent. Are you a FMOTL? Its only a fiction if it isnt enforced... Me saying I can claim a house IS a fiction. Laws are "fictions" only if they are not enforced.

Go drink and drive and flip off a cop while doing it (of coarse without plates and insurance since those are fictions as well) then tell them the law is a fiction and see what happens- you wil be paying your lawyer and fines with your fictional fiat dollars which you will earn with REAL sweat- once you get out of real jail.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Just because evil and corruption have enforcers does not mean it is right. People will look back in hindsight at these times and laugh at how much shit humans put up with. You have been programmed from day 1 to conform and obey no matter the law, code or statute. The United States has become nothing but a nation of "laws". Tens of thousands of laws on the books that even the judges can't keep up with. Producing more and more criminals out of everyday people. It is people like you that will be laughed at in the end. Truth always prevails in the end. Corruption knows no bounds and it will destroy itself.
 Quoting: 422


Okay. You make some interesting points. its ALL a fiction. its ALL the law of the jungle. You have nothing more than you can protect and when you are old, weak or sick others could take it because there really is no law.

Might makes right. That is the law.

"Law" since Hammurabi is a collective set of values we agree upon (or is imposed upon us) but everything is a fiction. Sure. But its enforced by people with more power than you.

Nations are fictions as well- But ...

You are taking a philosophy and trying to place it in reality. Philosophically its all a fiction.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Something that's not fiction: Real laws cannot be broken, "Laws" as you define them are not laws, but fiction. If you agree to obey something that does not exist I wouldn't go about complaining about your ills, you agreed to live in a fantasy world therefore your problems are your own fault.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


but what if here in this fckn poland you got fined for drinkin beer 2 am going home? you fight - they make sht out of u... cmon whit the natural law... i like to party5a
422

User ID: 27839260
United States
11/29/2012 10:58 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
The current "justice" system is based on fiction, deception, and trickery. It can not hold itself up and its only a matter of time before the Truth prevails.
 Quoting: 422


Excellent. Are you a FMOTL? Its only a fiction if it isnt enforced... Me saying I can claim a house IS a fiction. Laws are "fictions" only if they are not enforced.

Go drink and drive and flip off a cop while doing it (of coarse without plates and insurance since those are fictions as well) then tell them the law is a fiction and see what happens- you wil be paying your lawyer and fines with your fictional fiat dollars which you will earn with REAL sweat- once you get out of real jail.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Just because evil and corruption have enforcers does not mean it is right. People will look back in hindsight at these times and laugh at how much shit humans put up with. You have been programmed from day 1 to conform and obey no matter the law, code or statute. The United States has become nothing but a nation of "laws". Tens of thousands of laws on the books that even the judges can't keep up with. Producing more and more criminals out of everyday people. It is people like you that will be laughed at in the end. Truth always prevails in the end. Corruption knows no bounds and it will destroy itself.
 Quoting: 422


Okay. You make some interesting points. its ALL a fiction. its ALL the law of the jungle. You have nothing more than you can protect and when you are old, weak or sick others could take it because there really is no law.

Might makes right. That is the law.

"Law" since Hammurabi is a collective set of values we agree upon (or is imposed upon us) but everything is a fiction. Sure. But its enforced by people with more power than you.

Nations are fictions as well- But ...

You are taking a philosophy and trying to place it in reality. Philosophically its all a fiction.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


I never said anything about having NO law. Common law is all that is needed for a society. You can not violate someone else, their property or possessions. Instead what we have now, they can fine or imprison for damn near anything they want. That is the extreme.
“You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.” John Adams, Second President of the United States
Goodmen
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11/29/2012 10:58 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Here is my take on it.

Fact: their "laws" do not apply equally to those who make the laws.

Therefore, they cannot be laws at all, there must be agreement the law makers have jurisdiction over me. I have asked for proof and they have never provided it.

Oh and I defy anyone on this thread to prove jurisdiction over me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


Yup, you are a FMOTL or Sovereign. Heard the same thing a million times. nearly the same words (do you guys have a copy/paste site)

"prove jurisdiction"- I do not have to. Your Shit doesnt work, never has and never will. Tell it to the Judge. I challenge you to go drive without plates and insurance (something you guys claim is your "right" to "travel") and film it. Then post the results.

-Ask the Officer and Judge the Jurisdiction question.

You guys are too cute.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19588417
United States
11/29/2012 11:00 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Something that's not fiction: Real laws cannot be broken, "Laws" as you define them are not laws, but fiction. If you agree to obey something that does not exist I wouldn't go about complaining about your ills, you agreed to live in a fantasy world therefore your problems are your own fault.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


but what if here in this fckn poland you got fined for drinkin beer 2 am going home? you fight - they make sht out of u... cmon whit the natural law... i like to party5a


Money does not exist except as a concept in the imagination. If you did not place the idea of currency as your king then who cares about a fine?
Goodmen
User ID: 16778386
United States
11/29/2012 11:01 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
...


Excellent. Are you a FMOTL? Its only a fiction if it isnt enforced... Me saying I can claim a house IS a fiction. Laws are "fictions" only if they are not enforced.

Go drink and drive and flip off a cop while doing it (of coarse without plates and insurance since those are fictions as well) then tell them the law is a fiction and see what happens- you wil be paying your lawyer and fines with your fictional fiat dollars which you will earn with REAL sweat- once you get out of real jail.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Just because evil and corruption have enforcers does not mean it is right. People will look back in hindsight at these times and laugh at how much shit humans put up with. You have been programmed from day 1 to conform and obey no matter the law, code or statute. The United States has become nothing but a nation of "laws". Tens of thousands of laws on the books that even the judges can't keep up with. Producing more and more criminals out of everyday people. It is people like you that will be laughed at in the end. Truth always prevails in the end. Corruption knows no bounds and it will destroy itself.
 Quoting: 422


Okay. You make some interesting points. its ALL a fiction. its ALL the law of the jungle. You have nothing more than you can protect and when you are old, weak or sick others could take it because there really is no law.

Might makes right. That is the law.

"Law" since Hammurabi is a collective set of values we agree upon (or is imposed upon us) but everything is a fiction. Sure. But its enforced by people with more power than you.

Nations are fictions as well- But ...

You are taking a philosophy and trying to place it in reality. Philosophically its all a fiction.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


I never said anything about having NO law. Common law is all that is needed for a society. You can not violate someone else, their property or possessions. Instead what we have now, they can fine or imprison for damn near anything they want. That is the extreme.
 Quoting: 422


Yes, I get that.

The system is corrupt as hell in a million ways (I could tell you personal stories of my misadventures with the "justice" system)- I do not defend the system and actually staunchly oppose it.

My point is only about the fact that the FMOTL stuff is a scam- And somehow we got on freedom of religion... Just because the "system" is corrupt doesnt mean the conmen who oppose it are correct.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
11/29/2012 11:02 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Something that's not fiction: Real laws cannot be broken, "Laws" as you define them are not laws, but fiction. If you agree to obey something that does not exist I wouldn't go about complaining about your ills, you agreed to live in a fantasy world therefore your problems are your own fault.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


but what if here in this fckn poland you got fined for drinkin beer 2 am going home? you fight - they make sht out of u... cmon whit the natural law... i like to party5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


Money does not exist except as a concept in the imagination. If you did not place the idea of currency as your king then who cares about a fine?

Oops
Anonymous Coward
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11/29/2012 11:04 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
By the way, I have stood in front of their BAR and controlled the record more than once.

They could do nothing because I did not give them what they needed to argue against me.

I gave them no name, nothing, I simply asked questions, never passed the BAR into their jurisdiction and kept telling "the record" I demanded the court prove its jurisdiction over me.

When the judge tried to threaten and contempt of court jail time, I simply asked "ON and for the record, who, exactly, by name, is the Judge threatening with jail?"

The judge replied "YOU".

I again, to the record, stated "I am not YOU, so keep your hands off me!"

The bailiffs looked at the judge and never touched me, I walked out and never went back, since they did not even know who they were claiming the defendant was.

It is too easy when you really know what their game is!!!
Anonymous Coward
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Poland
11/29/2012 11:06 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
money or not you land up in kind of a drunkyard prison... for which you have to pay as for a good hotel
Anonymous Coward
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United States
11/29/2012 11:07 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Money does not exist except as a concept in the imagination. If you did not place the idea of currency as your king then who cares about a fine?

Oops
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


Ever hear the phrase "Time is money?" Yeah. In ancient Egypt for instance many historians actually don't consider the populace as slaves because they didn't work for the empire all year long, they had a certain amount of time they were to work in service of the empire and this was tax, the rest of the time was theirs to do as they please, assuming they didn't break any of the empires laws with that time.

As populations grew it became increasingly hard to keep track of who had paid their "taxes." Currency was invented so that none should be able to give or receive, buy or sell, without having received a mark of service from the emperor. Currency was invented to help keep track of who had paid their taxes to the empire. If you hadn't paid your taxes you could not buy or sell so rather than have people come to your home and bring you to work you would simply come on your own because you needed to receive the mark of service.

Mark o da beast.
Goodmen
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11/29/2012 11:07 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Something that's not fiction: Real laws cannot be broken, "Laws" as you define them are not laws, but fiction. If you agree to obey something that does not exist I wouldn't go about complaining about your ills, you agreed to live in a fantasy world therefore your problems are your own fault.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


but what if here in this fckn poland you got fined for drinkin beer 2 am going home? you fight - they make sht out of u... cmon whit the natural law... i like to party5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


Money does not exist except as a concept in the imagination. If you did not place the idea of currency as your king then who cares about a fine?

Oops
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


Money is not imaginary. Money is a division of worth of labor. Since I can trade my Dollars for goods and services and I must provide goods or services to make more of that imaginary money- it has value because we agree it does.

The barter system is too hard. I need some Apples but my skill is Home building (not really, but...) there is no way to really trade this- So we provide a "perceived value" attached to the currency (be it Gold, Silver , paper or electronic) which I can parcel out into smaller purchases.

Funny the people who keep hawking this "Imaginary paper fiat money" ideal will gladly take your Dollars for their services (and spend them) and will gladly take your imaginary paper dollars for their "real" Gold.

Again, Philosophically speaking you are correct. real World application, not so much.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
11/29/2012 11:08 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Here is my take on it.

Fact: their "laws" do not apply equally to those who make the laws.

Therefore, they cannot be laws at all, there must be agreement the law makers have jurisdiction over me. I have asked for proof and they have never provided it.

Oh and I defy anyone on this thread to prove jurisdiction over me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


Yup, you are a FMOTL or Sovereign. Heard the same thing a million times. nearly the same words (do you guys have a copy/paste site)

"prove jurisdiction"- I do not have to. Your Shit doesnt work, never has and never will. Tell it to the Judge. I challenge you to go drive without plates and insurance (something you guys claim is your "right" to "travel") and film it. Then post the results.

-Ask the Officer and Judge the Jurisdiction question.

You guys are too cute.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


I have done it. And screw you and your labels, I am a living man with unalienable rights,endowed by my creator, prove otherwise. You putting labels on me does not make it true, so keep them to yourself.

You typing words here does not make you have some magic power that makes you right and me wrong.

Prove YOUR jurisdiction that I am not free, right here, right now.
Goodmen
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11/29/2012 11:10 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
By the way, I have stood in front of their BAR and controlled the record more than once.

They could do nothing because I did not give them what they needed to argue against me.

I gave them no name, nothing, I simply asked questions, never passed the BAR into their jurisdiction and kept telling "the record" I demanded the court prove its jurisdiction over me.

When the judge tried to threaten and contempt of court jail time, I simply asked "ON and for the record, who, exactly, by name, is the Judge threatening with jail?"

The judge replied "YOU".

I again, to the record, stated "I am not YOU, so keep your hands off me!"

The bailiffs looked at the judge and never touched me, I walked out and never went back, since they did not even know who they were claiming the defendant was.

It is too easy when you really know what their game is!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


All these success stories and no proof. We are always told "I know the secret" but never proof.

I am sure you wouldnt mind providing a case # and city (since your name was never given) so I can confirm?

No offense but not everyone is truthful online. ;)
422

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11/29/2012 11:10 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
By the way, I have stood in front of their BAR and controlled the record more than once.

They could do nothing because I did not give them what they needed to argue against me.

I gave them no name, nothing, I simply asked questions, never passed the BAR into their jurisdiction and kept telling "the record" I demanded the court prove its jurisdiction over me.

When the judge tried to threaten and contempt of court jail time, I simply asked "ON and for the record, who, exactly, by name, is the Judge threatening with jail?"

The judge replied "YOU".

I again, to the record, stated "I am not YOU, so keep your hands off me!"

The bailiffs looked at the judge and never touched me, I walked out and never went back, since they did not even know who they were claiming the defendant was.

It is too easy when you really know what their game is!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


They use a fictional character which is your name in all CAPITAL letters. They try to get you to admit that you are this fictional character. If you deny that fictional character is you, there is nothing they can do to you.
“You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.” John Adams, Second President of the United States
Anonymous Coward
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11/29/2012 11:10 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Something that's not fiction: Real laws cannot be broken, "Laws" as you define them are not laws, but fiction. If you agree to obey something that does not exist I wouldn't go about complaining about your ills, you agreed to live in a fantasy world therefore your problems are your own fault.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


but what if here in this fckn poland you got fined for drinkin beer 2 am going home? you fight - they make sht out of u... cmon whit the natural law... i like to party5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


Money does not exist except as a concept in the imagination. If you did not place the idea of currency as your king then who cares about a fine?

Oops
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


Money is not imaginary. Money is a division of worth of labor. Since I can trade my Dollars for goods and services and I must provide goods or services to make more of that imaginary money- it has value because we agree it does.

The barter system is too hard. I need some Apples but my skill is Home building (not really, but...) there is no way to really trade this- So we provide a "perceived value" attached to the currency (be it Gold, Silver , paper or electronic) which I can parcel out into smaller purchases.

Funny the people who keep hawking this "Imaginary paper fiat money" ideal will gladly take your Dollars for their services (and spend them) and will gladly take your imaginary paper dollars for their "real" Gold.

Again, Philosophically speaking you are correct. real World application, not so much.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Federal Reserve NOTES are not money, they are "legal tender" states it right there in black and white.

There you go, projecting your beliefs on a NOTE and calling it "money", your premiss is flawed because you are ignorant.
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
11/29/2012 11:11 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
It also prohibits the government from interfering with the practice of one's religion so long as it is practiced within the laws of the United States.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Actualy that's wrong. Article 6 of your constitution says "this constitution is the supreme law of the land... laws... to the contrary notwithstanding.

So in regards to the guarantee "...nor prohibit the free exercise therof," no law is above that. That is the supreme law of the land. Or should be.

The bone of contention of course is the supreme court's position that since the first amendment was added later than Article 6, article 6 does not apply to that amendment. And that is absolute legaly rediculous bullshit that makes no sense whatsoever.

It's like me compiling a list of crimes like this:

1)Any person who,

a)steals
or
b)murders
or
c)embezzles

commits a crime.

Amendment to above:

d)rapes


In that case, if you believe the supreme court, rape is not a crime, since it was listed after the words "commits a crime." It's just total and utter bullshit. That's what I'm talking about when I say you can't win. They'll go to any lengths, no matter how silly to get what they want.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19588417
United States
11/29/2012 11:12 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Ever hear the phrase "Time is money?" Yeah. In ancient Egypt for instance many historians actually don't consider the populace as slaves because they didn't work for the empire all year long, they had a certain amount of time they were to work in service of the empire and this was tax, the rest of the time was theirs to do as they please, assuming they didn't break any of the empires laws with that time.

As populations grew it became increasingly hard to keep track of who had paid their "taxes." Currency was invented so that none should be able to give or receive, buy or sell, without having received a mark of service from the emperor. Currency was invented to help keep track of who had paid their taxes to the empire. If you hadn't paid your taxes you could not buy or sell so rather than have people come to your home and bring you to work you would simply come on your own because you needed to receive the mark of service.

Mark o da beast.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


Money is not imaginary. Money is a division of worth of labor. Since I can trade my Dollars for goods and services and I must provide goods or services to make more of that imaginary money- it has value because we agree it does.

The barter system is too hard. I need some Apples but my skill is Home building (not really, but...) there is no way to really trade this- So we provide a "perceived value" attached to the currency (be it Gold, Silver , paper or electronic) which I can parcel out into smaller purchases.

Funny the people who keep hawking this "Imaginary paper fiat money" ideal will gladly take your Dollars for their services (and spend them) and will gladly take your imaginary paper dollars for their "real" Gold.

Again, Philosophically speaking you are correct. real World application, not so much.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Before the invention of currency did not exist the barter system. Economies were called "Gifting" economies where citizens of the empire simply gave to one another without the expectation of immediately receiving something in return. It was assumed that as a citizen of the same empire you were worthy of receiving a gift.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14667725
Poland
11/29/2012 11:12 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
in fact i was thinking about barter exchange today.
but what if my services are high quality and for exchange i just got some craps because the law states so?

should i cheat or steal? become a whore? die?
Goodmen
User ID: 16778386
United States
11/29/2012 11:12 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Here is my take on it.

Fact: their "laws" do not apply equally to those who make the laws.

Therefore, they cannot be laws at all, there must be agreement the law makers have jurisdiction over me. I have asked for proof and they have never provided it.

Oh and I defy anyone on this thread to prove jurisdiction over me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


Yup, you are a FMOTL or Sovereign. Heard the same thing a million times. nearly the same words (do you guys have a copy/paste site)

"prove jurisdiction"- I do not have to. Your Shit doesnt work, never has and never will. Tell it to the Judge. I challenge you to go drive without plates and insurance (something you guys claim is your "right" to "travel") and film it. Then post the results.

-Ask the Officer and Judge the Jurisdiction question.

You guys are too cute.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


I have done it. And screw you and your labels, I am a living man with unalienable rights,endowed by my creator, prove otherwise. You putting labels on me does not make it true, so keep them to yourself.

You typing words here does not make you have some magic power that makes you right and me wrong.

Prove YOUR jurisdiction that I am not free, right here, right now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


Those not familiar with you and your ilks voodoo are getting a prime example right here of how nuts you guys are.

"prove your jurisdiction" is all you say when we are having a discussion. The burden of proof is not on me, friend. I do not claim to know the secrets of making Judges and Police quake in fear by my superior knowledge.

Does anyone really believe you could stand there (not giving a name) in front of a Judge, question his Jurisdiction and then...Walk... I mean...Really, lol.?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20901334
United States
11/29/2012 11:13 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
By the way, I have stood in front of their BAR and controlled the record more than once.

They could do nothing because I did not give them what they needed to argue against me.

I gave them no name, nothing, I simply asked questions, never passed the BAR into their jurisdiction and kept telling "the record" I demanded the court prove its jurisdiction over me.

When the judge tried to threaten and contempt of court jail time, I simply asked "ON and for the record, who, exactly, by name, is the Judge threatening with jail?"

The judge replied "YOU".

I again, to the record, stated "I am not YOU, so keep your hands off me!"

The bailiffs looked at the judge and never touched me, I walked out and never went back, since they did not even know who they were claiming the defendant was.

It is too easy when you really know what their game is!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


They use a fictional character which is your name in all CAPITAL letters. They try to get you to admit that you are this fictional character. If you deny that fictional character is you, there is nothing they can do to you.
 Quoting: 422


Yep, I did not even have to deny it was "me", I told the record me being "me" was self-evident, that cut them off because now they would have to prove otherwise, which is impossible, I can never "be" something I am not!

I do not have a "legal name" and I defy any man or woman walking this earth to prove I do.

And yes, the LEGAL NAME is part of the Mark of the BEAST.

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