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what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???

 
Goodmen
User ID: 16778386
United States
11/29/2012 11:14 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
...


but what if here in this fckn poland you got fined for drinkin beer 2 am going home? you fight - they make sht out of u... cmon whit the natural law... i like to party5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


Money does not exist except as a concept in the imagination. If you did not place the idea of currency as your king then who cares about a fine?

Oops
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


Money is not imaginary. Money is a division of worth of labor. Since I can trade my Dollars for goods and services and I must provide goods or services to make more of that imaginary money- it has value because we agree it does.

The barter system is too hard. I need some Apples but my skill is Home building (not really, but...) there is no way to really trade this- So we provide a "perceived value" attached to the currency (be it Gold, Silver , paper or electronic) which I can parcel out into smaller purchases.

Funny the people who keep hawking this "Imaginary paper fiat money" ideal will gladly take your Dollars for their services (and spend them) and will gladly take your imaginary paper dollars for their "real" Gold.

Again, Philosophically speaking you are correct. real World application, not so much.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Federal Reserve NOTES are not money, they are "legal tender" states it right there in black and white.

There you go, projecting your beliefs on a NOTE and calling it "money", your premiss is flawed because you are ignorant.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334

Its Debt (if you wish to get technical)- But....

Money is a generic term. You work, your paid, you spend...Money.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20901334
United States
11/29/2012 11:14 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Here is my take on it.

Fact: their "laws" do not apply equally to those who make the laws.

Therefore, they cannot be laws at all, there must be agreement the law makers have jurisdiction over me. I have asked for proof and they have never provided it.

Oh and I defy anyone on this thread to prove jurisdiction over me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


Yup, you are a FMOTL or Sovereign. Heard the same thing a million times. nearly the same words (do you guys have a copy/paste site)

"prove jurisdiction"- I do not have to. Your Shit doesnt work, never has and never will. Tell it to the Judge. I challenge you to go drive without plates and insurance (something you guys claim is your "right" to "travel") and film it. Then post the results.

-Ask the Officer and Judge the Jurisdiction question.

You guys are too cute.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


I have done it. And screw you and your labels, I am a living man with unalienable rights,endowed by my creator, prove otherwise. You putting labels on me does not make it true, so keep them to yourself.

You typing words here does not make you have some magic power that makes you right and me wrong.

Prove YOUR jurisdiction that I am not free, right here, right now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


Those not familiar with you and your ilks voodoo are getting a prime example right here of how nuts you guys are.

"prove your jurisdiction" is all you say when we are having a discussion. The burden of proof is not on me, friend. I do not claim to know the secrets of making Judges and Police quake in fear by my superior knowledge.

Does anyone really believe you could stand there (not giving a name) in front of a Judge, question his Jurisdiction and then...Walk... I mean...Really, lol.?
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Still waiting for your proof, big talker.

And yes, I have done it more than once, so whatcha got?

Prove it or shut up, wanker.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 18249172
United States
11/29/2012 11:14 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
I once met a guy that had a rich family member leave him some money and all he does is goes and buys a beater for 500-600 bucks and drives no plates or anything till he gets caught and just lets them keep the car and goes gets another one heh.
He said the longest was 6 months without getting pulled over so its sometimes cheaper than car payment.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19588417
United States
11/29/2012 11:15 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Ever hear the phrase "Time is money?" Yeah. In ancient Egypt for instance many historians actually don't consider the populace as slaves because they didn't work for the empire all year long, they had a certain amount of time they were to work in service of the empire and this was tax, the rest of the time was theirs to do as they please, assuming they didn't break any of the empires laws with that time.

As populations grew it became increasingly hard to keep track of who had paid their "taxes." Currency was invented so that none should be able to give or receive, buy or sell, without having received a mark of service from the emperor. Currency was invented to help keep track of who had paid their taxes to the empire. If you hadn't paid your taxes you could not buy or sell so rather than have people come to your home and bring you to work you would simply come on your own because you needed to receive the mark of service.

Mark o da beast.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


Money is not imaginary. Money is a division of worth of labor. Since I can trade my Dollars for goods and services and I must provide goods or services to make more of that imaginary money- it has value because we agree it does.

The barter system is too hard. I need some Apples but my skill is Home building (not really, but...) there is no way to really trade this- So we provide a "perceived value" attached to the currency (be it Gold, Silver , paper or electronic) which I can parcel out into smaller purchases.

Funny the people who keep hawking this "Imaginary paper fiat money" ideal will gladly take your Dollars for their services (and spend them) and will gladly take your imaginary paper dollars for their "real" Gold.

Again, Philosophically speaking you are correct. real World application, not so much.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Before the invention of currency did not exist the barter system. Economies were called "Gifting" economies where citizens of the empire simply gave to one another without the expectation of immediately receiving something in return. It was assumed that as a citizen of the same empire you were worthy of receiving a gift.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


And by the way the invention of currency was not originally intended to declare a persons worth or the value of their services. It was not originally intended to generate as much hatred and animosity as it does. It was intended to keep track of taxes, to keep track of who had served their emperor and who had not. People later became so dependent upon it that they used it as a means to quantify a persons worth.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14667725
Poland
11/29/2012 11:15 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Ever hear the phrase "Time is money?" Yeah. In ancient Egypt for instance many historians actually don't consider the populace as slaves because they didn't work for the empire all year long, they had a certain amount of time they were to work in service of the empire and this was tax, the rest of the time was theirs to do as they please, assuming they didn't break any of the empires laws with that time.

As populations grew it became increasingly hard to keep track of who had paid their "taxes." Currency was invented so that none should be able to give or receive, buy or sell, without having received a mark of service from the emperor. Currency was invented to help keep track of who had paid their taxes to the empire. If you hadn't paid your taxes you could not buy or sell so rather than have people come to your home and bring you to work you would simply come on your own because you needed to receive the mark of service.

Mark o da beast.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


Money is not imaginary. Money is a division of worth of labor. Since I can trade my Dollars for goods and services and I must provide goods or services to make more of that imaginary money- it has value because we agree it does.

The barter system is too hard. I need some Apples but my skill is Home building (not really, but...) there is no way to really trade this- So we provide a "perceived value" attached to the currency (be it Gold, Silver , paper or electronic) which I can parcel out into smaller purchases.

Funny the people who keep hawking this "Imaginary paper fiat money" ideal will gladly take your Dollars for their services (and spend them) and will gladly take your imaginary paper dollars for their "real" Gold.

Again, Philosophically speaking you are correct. real World application, not so much.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Before the invention of currency did not exist the barter system. Economies were called "Gifting" economies where citizens of the empire simply gave to one another without the expectation of immediately receiving something in return. It was assumed that as a citizen of the same empire you were worthy of receiving a gift.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


that would be nice
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20901334
United States
11/29/2012 11:17 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
...


Money does not exist except as a concept in the imagination. If you did not place the idea of currency as your king then who cares about a fine?

Oops
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


Money is not imaginary. Money is a division of worth of labor. Since I can trade my Dollars for goods and services and I must provide goods or services to make more of that imaginary money- it has value because we agree it does.

The barter system is too hard. I need some Apples but my skill is Home building (not really, but...) there is no way to really trade this- So we provide a "perceived value" attached to the currency (be it Gold, Silver , paper or electronic) which I can parcel out into smaller purchases.

Funny the people who keep hawking this "Imaginary paper fiat money" ideal will gladly take your Dollars for their services (and spend them) and will gladly take your imaginary paper dollars for their "real" Gold.

Again, Philosophically speaking you are correct. real World application, not so much.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Federal Reserve NOTES are not money, they are "legal tender" states it right there in black and white.

There you go, projecting your beliefs on a NOTE and calling it "money", your premiss is flawed because you are ignorant.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334

Its Debt (if you wish to get technical)- But....

Money is a generic term. You work, your paid, you spend...Money.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


It is not a generic term, the law of the land in the Republic is clear on what is legal tender for debts and has been since before this nation existed.

There are many forms of legal tender and there are contractual forms of lawful money, but that is a matter of agreement between two parties and is NOT the law of the land, but is contractually binding (and therefore lawful).

You are a novice at this, I can tell.

Keep trying, you might learn something.
422

User ID: 27839260
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11/29/2012 11:17 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
By the way, I have stood in front of their BAR and controlled the record more than once.

They could do nothing because I did not give them what they needed to argue against me.

I gave them no name, nothing, I simply asked questions, never passed the BAR into their jurisdiction and kept telling "the record" I demanded the court prove its jurisdiction over me.

When the judge tried to threaten and contempt of court jail time, I simply asked "ON and for the record, who, exactly, by name, is the Judge threatening with jail?"

The judge replied "YOU".

I again, to the record, stated "I am not YOU, so keep your hands off me!"

The bailiffs looked at the judge and never touched me, I walked out and never went back, since they did not even know who they were claiming the defendant was.

It is too easy when you really know what their game is!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


They use a fictional character which is your name in all CAPITAL letters. They try to get you to admit that you are this fictional character. If you deny that fictional character is you, there is nothing they can do to you.
 Quoting: 422


Yep, I did not even have to deny it was "me", I told the record me being "me" was self-evident, that cut them off because now they would have to prove otherwise, which is impossible, I can never "be" something I am not!

I do not have a "legal name" and I defy any man or woman walking this earth to prove I do.

And yes, the LEGAL NAME is part of the Mark of the BEAST.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


I AM I AM is all that needs to be said to a judge.
“You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.” John Adams, Second President of the United States
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14667725
Poland
11/29/2012 11:18 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
I once met a guy that had a rich family member leave him some money and all he does is goes and buys a beater for 500-600 bucks and drives no plates or anything till he gets caught and just lets them keep the car and goes gets another one heh.
He said the longest was 6 months without getting pulled over so its sometimes cheaper than car payment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18249172


:)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19588417
United States
11/29/2012 11:19 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Ever hear the phrase "Time is money?" Yeah. In ancient Egypt for instance many historians actually don't consider the populace as slaves because they didn't work for the empire all year long, they had a certain amount of time they were to work in service of the empire and this was tax, the rest of the time was theirs to do as they please, assuming they didn't break any of the empires laws with that time.

As populations grew it became increasingly hard to keep track of who had paid their "taxes." Currency was invented so that none should be able to give or receive, buy or sell, without having received a mark of service from the emperor. Currency was invented to help keep track of who had paid their taxes to the empire. If you hadn't paid your taxes you could not buy or sell so rather than have people come to your home and bring you to work you would simply come on your own because you needed to receive the mark of service.

Mark o da beast.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


Money is not imaginary. Money is a division of worth of labor. Since I can trade my Dollars for goods and services and I must provide goods or services to make more of that imaginary money- it has value because we agree it does.

The barter system is too hard. I need some Apples but my skill is Home building (not really, but...) there is no way to really trade this- So we provide a "perceived value" attached to the currency (be it Gold, Silver , paper or electronic) which I can parcel out into smaller purchases.

Funny the people who keep hawking this "Imaginary paper fiat money" ideal will gladly take your Dollars for their services (and spend them) and will gladly take your imaginary paper dollars for their "real" Gold.

Again, Philosophically speaking you are correct. real World application, not so much.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Before the invention of currency did not exist the barter system. Economies were called "Gifting" economies where citizens of the empire simply gave to one another without the expectation of immediately receiving something in return. It was assumed that as a citizen of the same empire you were worthy of receiving a gift.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19588417


that would be nice
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


Like I said, it was a mistake. The empires who invented currency intended it only to keep track of those who paid taxes to the empire, those that had performed their duty in service to the emperor. Those who invented currency did not know that it would evolve to make people hate one another, they did not know it would evolve to divide people against one another. They did not know it would evolve to make people refuse to help one another.

It was only supposed to keep track of taxes.
Goodmen
User ID: 16778386
United States
11/29/2012 11:21 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
...


Yup, you are a FMOTL or Sovereign. Heard the same thing a million times. nearly the same words (do you guys have a copy/paste site)

"prove jurisdiction"- I do not have to. Your Shit doesnt work, never has and never will. Tell it to the Judge. I challenge you to go drive without plates and insurance (something you guys claim is your "right" to "travel") and film it. Then post the results.

-Ask the Officer and Judge the Jurisdiction question.

You guys are too cute.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


I have done it. And screw you and your labels, I am a living man with unalienable rights,endowed by my creator, prove otherwise. You putting labels on me does not make it true, so keep them to yourself.

You typing words here does not make you have some magic power that makes you right and me wrong.

Prove YOUR jurisdiction that I am not free, right here, right now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


Those not familiar with you and your ilks voodoo are getting a prime example right here of how nuts you guys are.

"prove your jurisdiction" is all you say when we are having a discussion. The burden of proof is not on me, friend. I do not claim to know the secrets of making Judges and Police quake in fear by my superior knowledge.

Does anyone really believe you could stand there (not giving a name) in front of a Judge, question his Jurisdiction and then...Walk... I mean...Really, lol.?
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Still waiting for your proof, big talker.

And yes, I have done it more than once, so whatcha got?

Prove it or shut up, wanker.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334

LOL.

I posted a 200 page thread where Rob Menard (major FMOTL leader and lecturer) tries to use those same arguments and after YEARS still has not one piece of proof.

Claim after claim after claim (with people trying this shit getting jailed) always becomes "they didnt do it right" (after spending THOUSANDS to "learn" how to do it.)

Then you idiots try playing internet lawyer and asking things like "prove your jurisdiction"

Look, the burden of proof is on you. Your shit doesnt work. its a joke and you are a liar...If not, prove it. I am not making claims, I am laughing at yours.

So what do I have to prove? Want links to major news stories? Want more links to other Gurus who never have proof? And these guys are the "masters" who give lectures on this shit. Since they cannot prove it neither can you because it is LIES. =)

Or is this menard? If so I miss you on Randi and on Icke and your new scam of making your own money didnt work too well huh?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20901334
United States
11/29/2012 11:22 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
I once met a guy that had a rich family member leave him some money and all he does is goes and buys a beater for 500-600 bucks and drives no plates or anything till he gets caught and just lets them keep the car and goes gets another one heh.
He said the longest was 6 months without getting pulled over so its sometimes cheaper than car payment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18249172


I did it for nearly 2 years, when they towed the car, I said goodbye to it, earthy products mean nothing to me, if they want it so badly, let them keep it.

Nothing in my life changed and the car needed work anyway, there are others like it and I could buy another one today if I wanted to, but have not had the need to do so.

Screw them, they have nothing I want nor need, that includes social security and other worldly BS others claim are so important.

I do not see it has having any value, so I let the dead bury the dead.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14667725
Poland
11/29/2012 11:23 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
lots of wise ppl here, but how to manage if you are just an average, or how to help friends if they cannot speak?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20901334
United States
11/29/2012 11:24 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
...


I have done it. And screw you and your labels, I am a living man with unalienable rights,endowed by my creator, prove otherwise. You putting labels on me does not make it true, so keep them to yourself.

You typing words here does not make you have some magic power that makes you right and me wrong.

Prove YOUR jurisdiction that I am not free, right here, right now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


Those not familiar with you and your ilks voodoo are getting a prime example right here of how nuts you guys are.

"prove your jurisdiction" is all you say when we are having a discussion. The burden of proof is not on me, friend. I do not claim to know the secrets of making Judges and Police quake in fear by my superior knowledge.

Does anyone really believe you could stand there (not giving a name) in front of a Judge, question his Jurisdiction and then...Walk... I mean...Really, lol.?
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Still waiting for your proof, big talker.

And yes, I have done it more than once, so whatcha got?

Prove it or shut up, wanker.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334

LOL.

I posted a 200 page thread where Rob Menard (major FMOTL leader and lecturer) tries to use those same arguments and after YEARS still has not one piece of proof.

Claim after claim after claim (with people trying this shit getting jailed) always becomes "they didnt do it right" (after spending THOUSANDS to "learn" how to do it.)

Then you idiots try playing internet lawyer and asking things like "prove your jurisdiction"

Look, the burden of proof is on you. Your shit doesnt work. its a joke and you are a liar...If not, prove it. I am not making claims, I am laughing at yours.

So what do I have to prove? Want links to major news stories? Want more links to other Gurus who never have proof? And these guys are the "masters" who give lectures on this shit. Since they cannot prove it neither can you because it is LIES. =)

Or is this menard? If so I miss you on Randi and on Icke and your new scam of making your own money didnt work too well huh?
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


200 pages? Sounds very obsessive to me, I suppose you feel empowered by your own bullshit?

Good for you!

Now, proceed with your damn proof anything you say or do has any power over me and we can go from there.

You still have not provided any proof.
Goodmen
User ID: 16778386
United States
11/29/2012 11:27 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
...


Money is not imaginary. Money is a division of worth of labor. Since I can trade my Dollars for goods and services and I must provide goods or services to make more of that imaginary money- it has value because we agree it does.

The barter system is too hard. I need some Apples but my skill is Home building (not really, but...) there is no way to really trade this- So we provide a "perceived value" attached to the currency (be it Gold, Silver , paper or electronic) which I can parcel out into smaller purchases.

Funny the people who keep hawking this "Imaginary paper fiat money" ideal will gladly take your Dollars for their services (and spend them) and will gladly take your imaginary paper dollars for their "real" Gold.

Again, Philosophically speaking you are correct. real World application, not so much.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Federal Reserve NOTES are not money, they are "legal tender" states it right there in black and white.

There you go, projecting your beliefs on a NOTE and calling it "money", your premiss is flawed because you are ignorant.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334

Its Debt (if you wish to get technical)- But....

Money is a generic term. You work, your paid, you spend...Money.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


It is not a generic term, the law of the land in the Republic is clear on what is legal tender for debts and has been since before this nation existed.

There are many forms of legal tender and there are contractual forms of lawful money, but that is a matter of agreement between two parties and is NOT the law of the land, but is contractually binding (and therefore lawful).

You are a novice at this, I can tell.

Keep trying, you might learn something.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


It was a generic term in my usage since this thread isnt about money, legal tender or currency and this whole line was a sidetrack since the whole "Money is a fiction" came up.

Anyhow, I wouldnt consider myself a novice on monetary policy but no expert either. In fact, I have read a couple books which touched on it and watched a few you tube vids (like Money masters and Money as Debt) but my take was on the Anthropological use of money- i.e. barter is impossible on a large scale so we break our labor into ...Money.

But yes, Money is not something I have extensively studied (nor plan to) but its real enough that it keeps me in a warm dry house, food in my belly and occasionally a few beers. I couldnt possibly barter with all the people who provide services for me- So...It works. =)

Plus you guys need to use a damn name tag- I am not sure if you are the FMOTL guy or someone else. Seriously...
Anonymous Coward
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United States
11/29/2012 11:27 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
lots of wise ppl here, but how to manage if you are just an average, or how to help friends if they cannot speak?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


How do you manage now? This earth was given to US, as men and women, nobody is special and allowed to live off the labor of others by any law, it is only your belief that others have something you need to survive, that is coveting and it is a sin.

Are you going to give a damn about any of this when you are dead? So die before you die and see what happens.

You will find you go on. That is what we are here to learn, WE are immortal and eternal, no man can stop you but you.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14667725
Poland
11/29/2012 11:30 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
can i be without nationality?
no

i just have to have one

but why?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 14667725
Poland
11/29/2012 11:31 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
lots of wise ppl here, but how to manage if you are just an average, or how to help friends if they cannot speak?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


How do you manage now? This earth was given to US, as men and women, nobody is special and allowed to live off the labor of others by any law, it is only your belief that others have something you need to survive, that is coveting and it is a sin.

Are you going to give a damn about any of this when you are dead? So die before you die and see what happens.

You will find you go on. That is what we are here to learn, WE are immortal and eternal, no man can stop you but you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


i know that, but in practice? i cannot meditate or sit on glp 24
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20901334
United States
11/29/2012 11:31 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
...


Federal Reserve NOTES are not money, they are "legal tender" states it right there in black and white.

There you go, projecting your beliefs on a NOTE and calling it "money", your premiss is flawed because you are ignorant.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334

Its Debt (if you wish to get technical)- But....

Money is a generic term. You work, your paid, you spend...Money.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


It is not a generic term, the law of the land in the Republic is clear on what is legal tender for debts and has been since before this nation existed.

There are many forms of legal tender and there are contractual forms of lawful money, but that is a matter of agreement between two parties and is NOT the law of the land, but is contractually binding (and therefore lawful).

You are a novice at this, I can tell.

Keep trying, you might learn something.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


It was a generic term in my usage since this thread isnt about money, legal tender or currency and this whole line was a sidetrack since the whole "Money is a fiction" came up.

Anyhow, I wouldnt consider myself a novice on monetary policy but no expert either. In fact, I have read a couple books which touched on it and watched a few you tube vids (like Money masters and Money as Debt) but my take was on the Anthropological use of money- i.e. barter is impossible on a large scale so we break our labor into ...Money.

But yes, Money is not something I have extensively studied (nor plan to) but its real enough that it keeps me in a warm dry house, food in my belly and occasionally a few beers. I couldnt possibly barter with all the people who provide services for me- So...It works. =)

Plus you guys need to use a damn name tag- I am not sure if you are the FMOTL guy or someone else. Seriously...
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


There you go trying to label me again, screw your FMOTL, sovereign citizen labels.

You are a man and NOTHING gives you any more rights, privileges or powers over me or anyone else.

I could not care less about TITLES, jobs or "elections" nobody on this earth has any power not granted to all, that is the fact.

I defy you to prove otherwise.

As for the Federal Reserve, it does not "work" and is going to be the device that destroys us all eventually.

Still no proof you (or anyone) has any power over me.

Waiting...(but not really).
Anonymous Coward
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United States
11/29/2012 11:32 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
can i be without nationality?
no

i just have to have one

but why?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


Just because someone or some piece of paper says you have a nationality does not mean that you do. You do not have to have a nationality, if they believe you are a citizen of some empire it is their folly in believing a falsehood.
Goodmen
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United States
11/29/2012 11:32 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
...


Those not familiar with you and your ilks voodoo are getting a prime example right here of how nuts you guys are.

"prove your jurisdiction" is all you say when we are having a discussion. The burden of proof is not on me, friend. I do not claim to know the secrets of making Judges and Police quake in fear by my superior knowledge.

Does anyone really believe you could stand there (not giving a name) in front of a Judge, question his Jurisdiction and then...Walk... I mean...Really, lol.?
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Still waiting for your proof, big talker.

And yes, I have done it more than once, so whatcha got?

Prove it or shut up, wanker.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334

LOL.

I posted a 200 page thread where Rob Menard (major FMOTL leader and lecturer) tries to use those same arguments and after YEARS still has not one piece of proof.

Claim after claim after claim (with people trying this shit getting jailed) always becomes "they didnt do it right" (after spending THOUSANDS to "learn" how to do it.)

Then you idiots try playing internet lawyer and asking things like "prove your jurisdiction"

Look, the burden of proof is on you. Your shit doesnt work. its a joke and you are a liar...If not, prove it. I am not making claims, I am laughing at yours.

So what do I have to prove? Want links to major news stories? Want more links to other Gurus who never have proof? And these guys are the "masters" who give lectures on this shit. Since they cannot prove it neither can you because it is LIES. =)

Or is this menard? If so I miss you on Randi and on Icke and your new scam of making your own money didnt work too well huh?
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


200 pages? Sounds very obsessive to me, I suppose you feel empowered by your own bullshit?

Good for you!

Now, proceed with your damn proof anything you say or do has any power over me and we can go from there.

You still have not provided any proof.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


YOU REALLY ARE DENSE.I am sure you "eat those Judges alive with your knowledge"

I posted a 200 page thread - How is that Obsessive? Its not MY thread. Its a thread about one of your leaders which was done over several years- And he joins in from page 1. The proof is all there.

I dont want to have power over you? I dont even get that? But someone stronger and more powerful and with the LAW on their side (i.e. the Police) most certainly do- In the same way Mike Tyson would have "power over you" if you were alone in a dark Forest with him and he wanted to.

Jesus fucking christ.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20901334
United States
11/29/2012 11:33 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
lots of wise ppl here, but how to manage if you are just an average, or how to help friends if they cannot speak?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


How do you manage now? This earth was given to US, as men and women, nobody is special and allowed to live off the labor of others by any law, it is only your belief that others have something you need to survive, that is coveting and it is a sin.

Are you going to give a damn about any of this when you are dead? So die before you die and see what happens.

You will find you go on. That is what we are here to learn, WE are immortal and eternal, no man can stop you but you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


i know that, but in practice? i cannot meditate or sit on glp 24
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


I am not interested in what you "cannot" do. Only you can free you.

I cannot do it for you, nor can anyone else. Do not look for answers where they do not exist.

Good night.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20901334
United States
11/29/2012 11:36 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
...


Still waiting for your proof, big talker.

And yes, I have done it more than once, so whatcha got?

Prove it or shut up, wanker.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334

LOL.

I posted a 200 page thread where Rob Menard (major FMOTL leader and lecturer) tries to use those same arguments and after YEARS still has not one piece of proof.

Claim after claim after claim (with people trying this shit getting jailed) always becomes "they didnt do it right" (after spending THOUSANDS to "learn" how to do it.)

Then you idiots try playing internet lawyer and asking things like "prove your jurisdiction"

Look, the burden of proof is on you. Your shit doesnt work. its a joke and you are a liar...If not, prove it. I am not making claims, I am laughing at yours.

So what do I have to prove? Want links to major news stories? Want more links to other Gurus who never have proof? And these guys are the "masters" who give lectures on this shit. Since they cannot prove it neither can you because it is LIES. =)

Or is this menard? If so I miss you on Randi and on Icke and your new scam of making your own money didnt work too well huh?
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


200 pages? Sounds very obsessive to me, I suppose you feel empowered by your own bullshit?

Good for you!

Now, proceed with your damn proof anything you say or do has any power over me and we can go from there.

You still have not provided any proof.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


YOU REALLY ARE DENSE.I am sure you "eat those Judges alive with your knowledge"

I posted a 200 page thread - How is that Obsessive? Its not MY thread. Its a thread about one of your leaders which was done over several years- And he joins in from page 1. The proof is all there.

I dont want to have power over you? I dont even get that? But someone stronger and more powerful and with the LAW on their side (i.e. the Police) most certainly do- In the same way Mike Tyson would have "power over you" if you were alone in a dark Forest with him and he wanted to.

Jesus fucking christ.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


Still not proof...

bye.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19588417
United States
11/29/2012 11:36 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
lots of wise ppl here, but how to manage if you are just an average, or how to help friends if they cannot speak?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


How do you manage now? This earth was given to US, as men and women, nobody is special and allowed to live off the labor of others by any law, it is only your belief that others have something you need to survive, that is coveting and it is a sin.

Are you going to give a damn about any of this when you are dead? So die before you die and see what happens.

You will find you go on. That is what we are here to learn, WE are immortal and eternal, no man can stop you but you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20901334


i know that, but in practice? i cannot meditate or sit on glp 24
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


Start your own Gifting Economy. Start sharing with people, stop requiring them to prove their worth with currency and accept that they are worthy of receiving. The gifting economy is about sharing and acceptance, accepting the fact that we are all worthy of receiving, all worthy.
Goodmen
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11/29/2012 11:37 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
A person is not just a legal fiction. According to Cornell University’s U.S. Code Collection a person includes a natural person (including an individual Indian), a corporation, a partnership, an unincorporated association, a trust, or an estate, or any other public or private entity, including a State or local government or an Indian tribe. TITLE 28 > PART VI > CHAPTER 176 > SUBCHAPTER A > § 3002. So the myth that a natural person and legal person are separate in the case of representing an actual human being in court, is entirely false.
-There is 1 piece of proof.
Goodmen
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11/29/2012 11:38 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
[link to www.examiner.com]
Here is a short article for your attention span.
Anonymous Coward
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Poland
11/29/2012 11:41 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Native Americans were proposed to buy land.

How can land be bought?
422

User ID: 27839260
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11/29/2012 11:42 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
A person is not just a legal fiction. According to Cornell University’s U.S. Code Collection a person includes a natural person (including an individual Indian), a corporation, a partnership, an unincorporated association, a trust, or an estate, or any other public or private entity, including a State or local government or an Indian tribe. TITLE 28 > PART VI > CHAPTER 176 > SUBCHAPTER A > § 3002. So the myth that a natural person and legal person are separate in the case of representing an actual human being in court, is entirely false.
-There is 1 piece of proof.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


It is on the courts to PROVE you are that legal fiction they are claiming. They can't do this and that is why they use deception and trickery to get you to ADMIT you are this legal fiction. There is a loophole in ALL of the "laws" because they are fiction and not Truth.
“You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.” John Adams, Second President of the United States
Goodmen
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11/29/2012 11:42 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
[link to www.youtube.com]

This "Police Officer" seems to have juristiction. hmmmmmm.
Anonymous Coward
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11/29/2012 11:44 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
Native Americans were proposed to buy land.

How can land be bought?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14667725


It can't. Property and ownership are concepts of the imagination. If you physically occupy a piece of land than it is yours for it is physically impossible for two people to occupy the exact same space at the same time. If the space is empty than it is free to be occupied by anyone or anything.
Goodmen
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11/29/2012 11:46 PM
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Re: what are the advantages and disadvantages of declaring personal sovereignty???
A person is not just a legal fiction. According to Cornell University’s U.S. Code Collection a person includes a natural person (including an individual Indian), a corporation, a partnership, an unincorporated association, a trust, or an estate, or any other public or private entity, including a State or local government or an Indian tribe. TITLE 28 > PART VI > CHAPTER 176 > SUBCHAPTER A > § 3002. So the myth that a natural person and legal person are separate in the case of representing an actual human being in court, is entirely false.
-There is 1 piece of proof.
 Quoting: Goodmen 16778386


It is on the courts to PROVE you are that legal fiction they are claiming. They can't do this and that is why they use deception and trickery to get you to ADMIT you are this legal fiction. There is a loophole in ALL of the "laws" because they are fiction and not Truth.
 Quoting: 422


Is there any evidence of this ever working?
I have been following this for years and personally have spoken with menard and several others and never (not once) have they done anything but make claims.

When the plethora of evidence is shown of people being arrested for this they claim" they did it wrong" (even though they received their advice (paid for it) from the very same gurus.

Its difficult to prove a negative. Prove to me Puirple fairies do not inhabit the White house? hmmmm, you cannot, so they must- BUT it doesnt work this way. If I make the claim about these fairies the proof is on me.

Something FMOTL cannot grasp since thus far there is no proof but lots of claims and stories and "I know a guy" who got feree Houses, Millions for birth certificates and the Police cannot mess with them even when they "travel" with no plates.

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