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A Tribute to Communism

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1582303
United States
12/04/2012 01:24 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
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My jurisprudence system has a far more obvious and simply obvious mechanism for determining guilt and assigning sentence.

cruise

On. Sight.
/done wasting time talking to a future trophy
 Quoting: Carshy McCarsh

That doesn't mean the communists had your jurisprudence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


That is interesting thought. How did millions of people appear in cattle trains at night? What kind of jurispurdence managed constantly to solve more than 20000 cases in one area throughout one night (from arrest until all were loaded to the trains going straight to the death camps)?
 Quoting: EMPerror


It honestly sounds like you are confusing the Nazis with communists. The qulags were labor camps, not death camps, VERY little amount of people died in qulags when penicillin was fully implemented in Soviet Union. LACK of medicine was the PRIMARY cause of death in gulags. Millions of people in Europe and America died due to the Spanish flu, yet NO ONE would accuse those countries of killing their civilians! Yet a variety of causes of deaths in Soviet Union was intentionally labeled to be due to communism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


I take it you also believe in Lysenkoism?
Carshy McCarsh (OP)

User ID: 28994476
United States
12/04/2012 01:24 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
It honestly sounds like you are confusing the Nazis with communists. The qulags were labor camps, not death camps, VERY little amount of people died in qulags when penicillin was fully implemented in Soviet Union. LACK of medicine was the PRIMARY cause of death in gulags. Millions of people in Europe and America died due to the Spanish flu, yet NO ONE would accuse those countries of killing their civilians! Yet a variety of causes of deaths in Soviet Union was intentionally labeled to be due to communism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


hunt
Tell me what this tastes like...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17837699
United States
12/04/2012 01:25 AM
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That doesn't mean the communists had your jurisprudence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


That is interesting thought. How did millions of people appear in cattle trains at night? What kind of jurispurdence managed constantly to solve more than 20000 cases in one area throughout one night (from arrest until all were loaded to the trains going straight to the death camps)?
 Quoting: EMPerror


It honestly sounds like you are confusing the Nazis with communists. The qulags were labor camps, not death camps, VERY little amount of people died in qulags when penicillin was fully implemented in Soviet Union. LACK of medicine was the PRIMARY cause of death in gulags. Millions of people in Europe and America died due to the Spanish flu, yet NO ONE would accuse those countries of killing their civilians! Yet a variety of causes of deaths in Soviet Union was intentionally labeled to be due to communism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


I take it you also believe in Lysenkoism?
I never studied him. Neither was I aware of him until just now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1582303
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17837699
United States
12/04/2012 01:26 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
It honestly sounds like you are confusing the Nazis with communists. The qulags were labor camps, not death camps, VERY little amount of people died in qulags when penicillin was fully implemented in Soviet Union. LACK of medicine was the PRIMARY cause of death in gulags. Millions of people in Europe and America died due to the Spanish flu, yet NO ONE would accuse those countries of killing their civilians! Yet a variety of causes of deaths in Soviet Union was intentionally labeled to be due to communism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


:hunt:
 Quoting: Carshy McCarsh


seal
EMPerror

User ID: 8804293
Lithuania
12/04/2012 01:28 AM
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My jurisprudence system has a far more obvious and simply obvious mechanism for determining guilt and assigning sentence.

cruise

On. Sight.
/done wasting time talking to a future trophy
 Quoting: Carshy McCarsh

That doesn't mean the communists had your jurisprudence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


That is interesting thought. How did millions of people appear in cattle trains at night? What kind of jurispurdence managed constantly to solve more than 20000 cases in one area throughout one night (from arrest until all were loaded to the trains going straight to the death camps)?
 Quoting: EMPerror


It honestly sounds like you are confusing the Nazis with communists. The qulags were labor camps, not death camps, VERY little amount of people died in qulags when penicillin was fully implemented in Soviet Union. LACK of medicine was the PRIMARY cause of death in gulags. Millions of people in Europe and America died due to the Spanish flu, yet NO ONE would accuse those countries of killing their civilians! Yet a variety of causes of deaths in Soviet Union was intentionally labeled to be due to communism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


You're really troubled.

How can you call a place in arctic permafrost regions where people were simply unloaded behind barbed wire in the middle of nowhere and left without proper clothes and food. Did Russkies have industrialized arctic there?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1582303
United States
12/04/2012 01:29 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
Lysenkoism:
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

5a
Carshy McCarsh (OP)

User ID: 1531528
Germany
12/04/2012 01:29 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
It honestly sounds like you are confusing the Nazis with communists. The qulags were labor camps, not death camps, VERY little amount of people died in qulags when penicillin was fully implemented in Soviet Union. LACK of medicine was the PRIMARY cause of death in gulags. Millions of people in Europe and America died due to the Spanish flu, yet NO ONE would accuse those countries of killing their civilians! Yet a variety of causes of deaths in Soviet Union was intentionally labeled to be due to communism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


hunt
 Quoting: Carshy McCarsh


seal
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


hf
Tell me what this tastes like...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 10783814
United States
12/04/2012 01:41 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
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So that's why they were literally dying to get out?

Because it was so equal and everybody shared and felt so well taken care of by one another?

Morons.

Let go of your phony definitions and look at HISTORY.

It repeats because idiots like you REFUSE to LEARN from it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10783814


I don't deny that post-Stalin Soviet Union was oppressive, but I deny that Soviet Union was EVER a communist country. They were a socialist country under Stalin, and reverted back to state capitalism shortly before Stalin's death. Implementing communism takes stages and progress, from capitalism to socialism to communism. Just because communists won revolutions Doesnt mean they instantly implemented communism, it would be absurd to think that economic systems change overnight.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699

Oh, I see...so the millions upon millions slaughtered in the PROGRESSION to Communism are ok....cause, you know, it was only the FIRST STEP to Communism....not actually the glory of Communism itself?

It really is a mental illness, isn't it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10783814

Well of course, do you think the capitalists just freely gives up their power? those millions upon millions killed are capitalists. Here, you try to implement communism and see if you can do it without anyone trying to stop you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


Here's an idea. Move to a Communist country.

If some of us are content in a capitalistic society, why wouldn't we try to stop you?

Why is it ok for you to kill 20 people or 20 million to impose your beliefs on others?

There are countries that exist that you could expatriate to that already practice what you want. Go there.

Then NOBODY has to get killed.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17837699
United States
12/04/2012 01:48 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
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That doesn't mean the communists had your jurisprudence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


That is interesting thought. How did millions of people appear in cattle trains at night? What kind of jurispurdence managed constantly to solve more than 20000 cases in one area throughout one night (from arrest until all were loaded to the trains going straight to the death camps)?
 Quoting: EMPerror


It honestly sounds like you are confusing the Nazis with communists. The qulags were labor camps, not death camps, VERY little amount of people died in qulags when penicillin was fully implemented in Soviet Union. LACK of medicine was the PRIMARY cause of death in gulags. Millions of people in Europe and America died due to the Spanish flu, yet NO ONE would accuse those countries of killing their civilians! Yet a variety of causes of deaths in Soviet Union was intentionally labeled to be due to communism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


You're really troubled.

How can you call a place in arctic permafrost regions where people were simply unloaded behind barbed wire in the middle of nowhere and left without proper clothes and food. Did Russkies have industrialized arctic there?
 Quoting: EMPerror


There isn't a single prison in the world in the history where prisoners are without food, water, and clothes as long as the country itself was doing reasonably fine.

Nazis Germany for example clothed, fed, and gave their Jewish prisoners water. If they wanted to kill the Jewish they didnt starve them, they killed them. Those starving Jewish pictures were taken during an era where the Germans were low on supply. Soviet Union wasn't low on supply. Nazis had death camps but even there the Jewish still had food, water, and clothes, Soviet Union didn't have any death camps. Those dead bodies of Jewish without clothes was because the Jewish took their clothes off before entering the gas chambers.

Certainly the Jewish suffered from frost bite and I'm sure the prisoners in gulag camps also suffered from such, but they certainly had food, water, and clothes.

You probably are talking about the struggle between the Kulaks which are the 10 million rich peasants in Soviet Union who didnt like Stalin. That was a struggle between 10 million peasants who resisted agriculture collectivization vs 110 million peasants who supported Stalin and his collectivization.

In the case of the counter-revolutionaries, it is also necessary to consider the crimes of which they were accused. Let us give two examples to show the importance of this question: the first is the kulaks sentenced at the beginning of the 1930s, and the second is the conspirators and counter-revolutionaries convicted in 1936-38.

According to the research reports insofar as they deal with the kulaks, the rich peasants, there were 381,000 families, i.e., about 1.8 million people sent into exile. A small number of these people were sentenced to serve terms in labour camps or colonies. But what gave rise to these punishments?

The rich Russian peasant, the kulak, had subjected poor peasants for hundreds of years to boundless oppression and unbridled exploitation. Of the 120 million peasants in 1927, the 10 million kulaks lived in luxury while the remaining 110 million lived in poverty. Before the revolution they had lived in the most abject poverty. The wealth of the kulaks was based on the badly-paid labour of the poor peasants. When the poor peasants began to join together in collective farms, the main source of kulak wealth disappeared. But the kulaks did not give up. They tried to restore exploitation by use of famine. Groups of armed kulaks attacked collective farms, killed poor peasants and party workers, set fire to the fields and killed working animals. By provoking starvation among poor peasants, the kulaks were trying to secure the perpetuation of poverty and their own positions of power. The events which ensued were not those expected by these murderers. This time the poor peasants had the support of the revolution and proved to be stronger than the kulaks, who were defeated, imprisoned and sent into exile or sentenced to terms in labour camps.

Of the 10 million kulaks, 1.8 million were exiled or convicted. There may have been injustices perpetrated in the course of this massive class struggle in the Soviet countryside, a struggle involving 120 million people. But can we blame the poor and the oppressed, in their struggle for a life worth living, in their struggle to ensure their children would not be starving illiterates, for not being sufficiently `civilised' or showing enough `mercy' in their courts? Can one point the finger at people who for hundreds of years had no access to the advances made by civilisation for not being civilised? And tell us, when was the kulak exploiter civilised or merciful in his dealings with poor peasants during the years and years of endless exploitation.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17837699
United States
12/04/2012 01:49 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1582303


I have no opinion.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/04/2012 01:54 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
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I don't deny that post-Stalin Soviet Union was oppressive, but I deny that Soviet Union was EVER a communist country. They were a socialist country under Stalin, and reverted back to state capitalism shortly before Stalin's death. Implementing communism takes stages and progress, from capitalism to socialism to communism. Just because communists won revolutions Doesnt mean they instantly implemented communism, it would be absurd to think that economic systems change overnight.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699

Oh, I see...so the millions upon millions slaughtered in the PROGRESSION to Communism are ok....cause, you know, it was only the FIRST STEP to Communism....not actually the glory of Communism itself?

It really is a mental illness, isn't it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10783814

Well of course, do you think the capitalists just freely gives up their power? those millions upon millions killed are capitalists. Here, you try to implement communism and see if you can do it without anyone trying to stop you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


Here's an idea. Move to a Communist country.

If some of us are content in a capitalistic society, why wouldn't we try to stop you?

Why is it ok for you to kill 20 people or 20 million to impose your beliefs on others?

There are countries that exist that you could expatriate to that already practice what you want. Go there.

Then NOBODY has to get killed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10783814

I already hinted at why I am choosing to stay in America. Go ahead, take a guess.
Are you sure you are content here? You don't have a single iota of worry that you might become impoverished if you come across a accident requiring expensive medical care? What about college? College inflated 400% in the past decade. Food prices? Some food prices have doubled. Worker's wages aren't keeping up. Unemployment is at 14% according to U6 government numbers. U3 says 7.9, but the government has another set of data which is U6. But hey, sure keep saying America's a great place to live! I'm sure delusions help you somehow!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28621784
Canada
12/04/2012 01:54 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
'The workers have to rebel against their masters, and to become masters of themselves. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains' - Karl Marx
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/04/2012 01:57 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
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Oh, I see...so the millions upon millions slaughtered in the PROGRESSION to Communism are ok....cause, you know, it was only the FIRST STEP to Communism....not actually the glory of Communism itself?

It really is a mental illness, isn't it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10783814

Well of course, do you think the capitalists just freely gives up their power? those millions upon millions killed are capitalists. Here, you try to implement communism and see if you can do it without anyone trying to stop you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


Here's an idea. Move to a Communist country.

If some of us are content in a capitalistic society, why wouldn't we try to stop you?

Why is it ok for you to kill 20 people or 20 million to impose your beliefs on others?

There are countries that exist that you could expatriate to that already practice what you want. Go there.

Then NOBODY has to get killed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10783814

I already hinted at why I am choosing to stay in America. Go ahead, take a guess.
Are you sure you are content here? You don't have a single iota of worry that you might become impoverished if you come across a accident requiring expensive medical care? What about college? College inflated 400% in the past decade. Food prices? Some food prices have doubled. Worker's wages aren't keeping up. Unemployment is at 14% according to U6 government numbers. U3 says 7.9, but the government has another set of data which is U6. But hey, sure keep saying America's a great place to live! I'm sure delusions help you somehow!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699

Considering that exploitation is he norm in capitalist countries one could say that communists are acting in self defense against slavery!
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/04/2012 01:58 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
'The workers have to rebel against their masters, and to become masters of themselves. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains' - Karl Marx
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28621784


Couldn't have said it better.
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
12/04/2012 02:00 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
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That is interesting thought. How did millions of people appear in cattle trains at night? What kind of jurispurdence managed constantly to solve more than 20000 cases in one area throughout one night (from arrest until all were loaded to the trains going straight to the death camps)?
 Quoting: EMPerror


It honestly sounds like you are confusing the Nazis with communists. The qulags were labor camps, not death camps, VERY little amount of people died in qulags when penicillin was fully implemented in Soviet Union. LACK of medicine was the PRIMARY cause of death in gulags. Millions of people in Europe and America died due to the Spanish flu, yet NO ONE would accuse those countries of killing their civilians! Yet a variety of causes of deaths in Soviet Union was intentionally labeled to be due to communism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


You're really troubled.

How can you call a place in arctic permafrost regions where people were simply unloaded behind barbed wire in the middle of nowhere and left without proper clothes and food. Did Russkies have industrialized arctic there?
 Quoting: EMPerror


There isn't a single prison in the world in the history where prisoners are without food, water, and clothes as long as the country itself was doing reasonably fine.

Nazis Germany for example clothed, fed, and gave their Jewish prisoners water. If they wanted to kill the Jewish they didnt starve them, they killed them. Those starving Jewish pictures were taken during an era where the Germans were low on supply. Soviet Union wasn't low on supply. Nazis had death camps but even there the Jewish still had food, water, and clothes, Soviet Union didn't have any death camps. Those dead bodies of Jewish without clothes was because the Jewish took their clothes off before entering the gas chambers.

Certainly the Jewish suffered from frost bite and I'm sure the prisoners in gulag camps also suffered from such, but they certainly had food, water, and clothes.

You probably are talking about the struggle between the Kulaks which are the 10 million rich peasants in Soviet Union who didnt like Stalin. That was a struggle between 10 million peasants who resisted agriculture collectivization vs 110 million peasants who supported Stalin and his collectivization.

In the case of the counter-revolutionaries, it is also necessary to consider the crimes of which they were accused. Let us give two examples to show the importance of this question: the first is the kulaks sentenced at the beginning of the 1930s, and the second is the conspirators and counter-revolutionaries convicted in 1936-38.

According to the research reports insofar as they deal with the kulaks, the rich peasants, there were 381,000 families, i.e., about 1.8 million people sent into exile. A small number of these people were sentenced to serve terms in labour camps or colonies. But what gave rise to these punishments?

The rich Russian peasant, the kulak, had subjected poor peasants for hundreds of years to boundless oppression and unbridled exploitation. Of the 120 million peasants in 1927, the 10 million kulaks lived in luxury while the remaining 110 million lived in poverty. Before the revolution they had lived in the most abject poverty. The wealth of the kulaks was based on the badly-paid labour of the poor peasants. When the poor peasants began to join together in collective farms, the main source of kulak wealth disappeared. But the kulaks did not give up. They tried to restore exploitation by use of famine. Groups of armed kulaks attacked collective farms, killed poor peasants and party workers, set fire to the fields and killed working animals. By provoking starvation among poor peasants, the kulaks were trying to secure the perpetuation of poverty and their own positions of power. The events which ensued were not those expected by these murderers. This time the poor peasants had the support of the revolution and proved to be stronger than the kulaks, who were defeated, imprisoned and sent into exile or sentenced to terms in labour camps.

Of the 10 million kulaks, 1.8 million were exiled or convicted. There may have been injustices perpetrated in the course of this massive class struggle in the Soviet countryside, a struggle involving 120 million people. But can we blame the poor and the oppressed, in their struggle for a life worth living, in their struggle to ensure their children would not be starving illiterates, for not being sufficiently `civilised' or showing enough `mercy' in their courts? Can one point the finger at people who for hundreds of years had no access to the advances made by civilisation for not being civilised? And tell us, when was the kulak exploiter civilised or merciful in his dealings with poor peasants during the years and years of endless exploitation.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


clappa
I was watching some European news and they showed a booth which a man sells pictures and postcards. The news lady seen a picture of Jesus, and another one of Stalin. She asked him, what card/picture do you sell the most on a day to day basis out of all of these? The man said, Stalin.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28763511
Mexico
12/04/2012 02:03 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
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those workers were the ones executing capitalists under Stalin's orders. Why would stalin execute his largest supporters? Communism is SPECIFICALLY designed to appeal to the worker's class and is where communists draw their power, why be so absurd and think that communists would betray their comrades.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699



 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1582303


Not even Hitler randomly killed people. Use your own sense and logic rather than using secondary sources. Perhaps Some evidence that Stalin killed because people were out past curfew would be nice, but not even capitalist sources that I have read have claimed something so absurd as this video above implies.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


The commies would kill you for having smooth hand because that meant you were an intellectual and not a laborer.

Commies murdered over 66,000,000 in Russia alone. Communism, like you, is pure evil.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1582303


I've heard that "smooth hand over a rough hand". But the 66 million? Read some research on the subject. I'll give you a hint, the numbers of deaths and those attributable to Communism have been exaggerated and continue to be so..

based on Soviet archives..

Turning to executions and custodial deaths in the entire Stalin period, we know that, between 1934 and 1953, 1,053,829 persons died in the camps of the GULAG. We have data to the effect that some 86,582 people perished in prisons between 1939 and 1951. (We do not yet know exactly how many died in labor colonies.) We also know that, between 1930 and 1952-1953, 786,098 “counter-revolutionaries” were executed (or, according to another source, more than 775,866 persons “on cases of the police” and for “political crimes”). Finally, we know that, from 1932 through 1940, 389,521 peasants died in places of “kulak” resettlement. Adding these figures together would produce a total of a little more than 2.3 million, but this can in no way be taken as an exact number. First of all, there is a possible overlap between the numbers given for GULAG camp deaths and “political” executions as well as between the latter and other victims of the 1937-1938 mass purges and perhaps also other categories falling under police jurisdiction. Double-counting would deflate the 2.3 million figure. On the other hand, the 2.3 million does not include several suspected categories of death in custody. It does not include, for example, deaths among deportees during and after the war as well as among categories of exiles other than “kulaks.” Still, we have some reason to believe that the new numbers for GULAG and prison deaths, executions as well as deaths in peasant exile, are likely to bring us within a much narrower range of error than the estimates proposed by the majority of authors who have written on the subject.

Even the highest estimate conceived by Olga Shatunovskaia puts it at under 20 million, and the authors with their new evidence totally discredit that.

Your figure is pure sensational nonsense...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28763511
Mexico
12/04/2012 02:03 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
here's the link..


[link to web.archive.org]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 17837699
United States
12/04/2012 02:04 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
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It honestly sounds like you are confusing the Nazis with communists. The qulags were labor camps, not death camps, VERY little amount of people died in qulags when penicillin was fully implemented in Soviet Union. LACK of medicine was the PRIMARY cause of death in gulags. Millions of people in Europe and America died due to the Spanish flu, yet NO ONE would accuse those countries of killing their civilians! Yet a variety of causes of deaths in Soviet Union was intentionally labeled to be due to communism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


You're really troubled.

How can you call a place in arctic permafrost regions where people were simply unloaded behind barbed wire in the middle of nowhere and left without proper clothes and food. Did Russkies have industrialized arctic there?
 Quoting: EMPerror


There isn't a single prison in the world in the history where prisoners are without food, water, and clothes as long as the country itself was doing reasonably fine.

Nazis Germany for example clothed, fed, and gave their Jewish prisoners water. If they wanted to kill the Jewish they didnt starve them, they killed them. Those starving Jewish pictures were taken during an era where the Germans were low on supply. Soviet Union wasn't low on supply. Nazis had death camps but even there the Jewish still had food, water, and clothes, Soviet Union didn't have any death camps. Those dead bodies of Jewish without clothes was because the Jewish took their clothes off before entering the gas chambers.

Certainly the Jewish suffered from frost bite and I'm sure the prisoners in gulag camps also suffered from such, but they certainly had food, water, and clothes.

You probably are talking about the struggle between the Kulaks which are the 10 million rich peasants in Soviet Union who didnt like Stalin. That was a struggle between 10 million peasants who resisted agriculture collectivization vs 110 million peasants who supported Stalin and his collectivization.

In the case of the counter-revolutionaries, it is also necessary to consider the crimes of which they were accused. Let us give two examples to show the importance of this question: the first is the kulaks sentenced at the beginning of the 1930s, and the second is the conspirators and counter-revolutionaries convicted in 1936-38.

According to the research reports insofar as they deal with the kulaks, the rich peasants, there were 381,000 families, i.e., about 1.8 million people sent into exile. A small number of these people were sentenced to serve terms in labour camps or colonies. But what gave rise to these punishments?

The rich Russian peasant, the kulak, had subjected poor peasants for hundreds of years to boundless oppression and unbridled exploitation. Of the 120 million peasants in 1927, the 10 million kulaks lived in luxury while the remaining 110 million lived in poverty. Before the revolution they had lived in the most abject poverty. The wealth of the kulaks was based on the badly-paid labour of the poor peasants. When the poor peasants began to join together in collective farms, the main source of kulak wealth disappeared. But the kulaks did not give up. They tried to restore exploitation by use of famine. Groups of armed kulaks attacked collective farms, killed poor peasants and party workers, set fire to the fields and killed working animals. By provoking starvation among poor peasants, the kulaks were trying to secure the perpetuation of poverty and their own positions of power. The events which ensued were not those expected by these murderers. This time the poor peasants had the support of the revolution and proved to be stronger than the kulaks, who were defeated, imprisoned and sent into exile or sentenced to terms in labour camps.

Of the 10 million kulaks, 1.8 million were exiled or convicted. There may have been injustices perpetrated in the course of this massive class struggle in the Soviet countryside, a struggle involving 120 million people. But can we blame the poor and the oppressed, in their struggle for a life worth living, in their struggle to ensure their children would not be starving illiterates, for not being sufficiently `civilised' or showing enough `mercy' in their courts? Can one point the finger at people who for hundreds of years had no access to the advances made by civilisation for not being civilised? And tell us, when was the kulak exploiter civilised or merciful in his dealings with poor peasants during the years and years of endless exploitation.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17837699


clappa
I was watching some European news and they showed a booth which a man sells pictures and postcards. The news lady seen a picture of Jesus, and another one of Stalin. She asked him, what card/picture do you sell the most on a day to day basis out of all of these? The man said, Stalin.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28621784

Which is why communism persists so strongly. It is because the killings that the capitalists accuse the communists of doing was all a myth. Vast majority of it didnt happen. period. But of course those people won't take that! Some evidence is needed, which is what I presented.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/04/2012 02:06 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
blah blah blah, propaganda bullshit, blah, blah blah...


based on Soviet archives..

blah blah blah, more Commie propaganda...blah.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28763511


I trust you see the difficulty here.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2012 02:06 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
"Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it, and hell where they already have it."
"How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
"The years ahead will be great ones for our country, for the cause of freedom and the spread of civilization. The West will not contain Communism, it will transcend Communism. We will not bother to denounce it, we'll dismiss it as a sad, bizarre chapter in human history whose last pages are even now being written."
"In an ironic sense, Karl Marx was right. We are witnessing today a great revolutionary crisis – a crisis where the demands of the economic order are colliding directly with those of the political order. But the crisis is happening not in the free, non-Marxist West, but in the home of Marxism-Leninism, the Soviet Union ... [Communism will be] left on the ash heap of history."
–Ronald Reagan
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2012 02:08 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
Well, the commies are out in force now. Obviously none of you work for a living.

Oh...that's right...
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2012 02:08 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
blah blah blah, propaganda bullshit, blah, blah blah...


based on Soviet archives..

blah blah blah, more Commie propaganda...blah.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28763511


I trust you see the difficulty here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10783814


Bureaucrats like to keep detailed records. Plus they were top secret until the archive were opened. So no, I dont see any difficulty.

I see you didnt even bother to check it out, which means you are a shill...
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2012 02:09 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
Well, the commies are out in force now. Obviously none of you work for a living.

Oh...that's right...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10783814


Speak for yourself. I just dont like liars...
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2012 02:11 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
Moses Hess began both Communism and Zionism, which are one in the same.

Communism is a Jewish Mafia System for Jews who would rather work with Atheist dupes, and Zionism is the same Jewish Mafia System for Jews who would rather work with religious dupes.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2012 02:14 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
Debate in the West about the precise numbers of victims has appeared in the scholarly press for several years and has been characterized by wide disparity, often of several millions, between high and low estimates. Using census and other data, scholars have put forward conflicting computations of birth, mortality, and arrests in order to calculate levels of famine deaths due to agricultural collectivization (1932-1933), victims of the Great Terror (1936-1939), and total “unnatural” population loss in the Stalin period. Anton Antonov-Ovseenko, Robert Conquest, Steven Rosefielde, and others have posited relatively high estimates (see Table 1). On the other hand, Stephen Wheatcroft and others working from the same sources have put forth lower totals. Both “high” and “low” estimators have bemoaned the lack of solid archival evidence and have claimed that should such materials become available, they would confirm the author’s projection. T

Now, for the first time, Soviet secret police documents are available that permit us to narrow sharply the range of estimates of victims of the Great Purges. These materials are from the archival records of the Secretariat of GULAG, the Main Camp Administration of the NKVD/MVD (the USSR Ministry of the Interior). They were housed in the formerly “special” (that is, closed) sections of the Central State Archive of the October Revolution of the USSR (TsGAOR), which is now part of the newly organized State Archive of the Russian Federation (GARF). A few Moscow scholars (among them V. N. Zemskov) had access to some of them in the past but were not allowed to cite them properly. Now, according to the liberalized access regulations in Russian archives, scholars are able to consult these documents and to publish exact citations.
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2012 02:14 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
Well, the commies are out in force now. Obviously none of you work for a living.

Oh...that's right...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10783814


Speak for yourself. I just dont like liars...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28763511


I can see you can handle this thread by yourself, I gotta get going to sleep, will check back tomorrow to defend communism some more.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/04/2012 02:17 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
blah blah blah, propaganda bullshit, blah, blah blah...


based on Soviet archives..

blah blah blah, more Commie propaganda...blah.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28763511


I trust you see the difficulty here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10783814


Bureaucrats like to keep detailed records. Plus they were top secret until the archive were opened. So no, I dont see any difficulty.

I see you didnt even bother to check it out, which means you are a shill...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28763511


jerkit
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
12/04/2012 02:18 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
Moses Hess began both Communism and Zionism, which are one in the same.

Communism is a Jewish Mafia System for Jews who would rather work with Atheist dupes, and Zionism is the same Jewish Mafia System for Jews who would rather work with religious dupes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1582303



The biggest threat to Capitalistic/Fascistic Zionism IS Communism. It's working very well in North America since everyone here is completely brainwashed into supporting the rich elites without even realizing it. You people just love using the word 'Commie' for everything. You people show your under-developed intellectual capabilities by believing that Obama is a Communist which is ridiculous.
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
12/04/2012 02:31 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
Moses Hess began both Communism and Zionism, which are one in the same.

Communism is a Jewish Mafia System for Jews who would rather work with Atheist dupes, and Zionism is the same Jewish Mafia System for Jews who would rather work with religious dupes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1582303



The biggest threat to Capitalistic/Fascistic Zionism IS Communism. It's working very well in North America since everyone here is completely brainwashed into supporting the rich elites without even realizing it. You people just love using the word 'Commie' for everything. You people show your under-developed intellectual capabilities by believing that Obama is a Communist which is ridiculous.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28621784


and to add,

the United States is Fascism at it's PUREST form. Same goes with all other NATO Fourth Reich countries as well.

The USA and it's Obama Corporate fat cats have nothing to do with Communism. Absolutely NOTHING. Those who believe Obama is a Communist are complete fools. How is the USA in anyway related to Communism? There is no free education, no free health care, no free dental, and so on. People have to starve themselves to pay their debt back for their education cost. If you don't have money to buy medication you are left to die. If you have no money to fix your teeth you are left toothless. What kind of 'freedom' is this you fools? And how does any of this relate to Communism? Tell me, how in the hell is the USA showing itself to being related to Communism?
Anonymous Coward
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12/04/2012 02:37 AM
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Re: A Tribute to Communism
You people show your under-developed intellectual capabilities by believing that Obama is a Communist which is ridiculous.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28621784


Communist Party doesn't think so.

[link to www.cpusa.org]

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