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Need some chemist help - anyone?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3558872
United States
12/03/2012 07:54 PM
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Need some chemist help - anyone?
I was wondering how much Ammonium nitrate is required per liter of water to drop the temperature, and how much will it actually drop the temp to - freezing? Also, is ammonium nitrate toxic, can you get a food grade, etc? Finally, with all the security these days, can you buy small amounts from a chem house or hobby store or do you need permits and crap? Trying to figure out a way to drop water temps on a prototype item I am constructing, and temperature has become an issue for one device in general... thanks!!
Travis Bickle
Vigilantes need love too....

User ID: 26788702
United States
12/03/2012 08:14 PM

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Re: Need some chemist help - anyone?
I was wondering how much Ammonium nitrate is required per liter of water to drop the temperature, and how much will it actually drop the temp to - freezing? Also, is ammonium nitrate toxic, can you get a food grade, etc? Finally, with all the security these days, can you buy small amounts from a chem house or hobby store or do you need permits and crap? Trying to figure out a way to drop water temps on a prototype item I am constructing, and temperature has become an issue for one device in general... thanks!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3558872


It seems to me that you're some kind of inventor who really has no chemical or scientific background.... Maybe you should team up with a local chemical engineer or even Chemistry teacher to bounce ideas off of.

The reason I say this that you offer no volume information what so ever, so there can either be no answer to your question or a multitude of answers, accounting for the volume and temperature variables.


Using NH4NO3 as a coolant is not very efficient, and the resulting dilution is mildly/moderately toxic if ingested.

How much water are you trying to cool and to what temperature?

Last Edited by Travis Bickle on 12/03/2012 09:41 PM
One of these days... A *REAL* rain is gonna come and wash all this scum off the streets.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 29027413
Netherlands
12/03/2012 08:29 PM
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Re: Need some chemist help - anyone?
Emmm hmmm eh eeh eeeh ? No that isnt so bad.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 3558872
United States
12/04/2012 04:45 PM
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Re: Need some chemist help - anyone?
I was wondering how much Ammonium nitrate is required per liter of water to drop the temperature, and how much will it actually drop the temp to - freezing? Also, is ammonium nitrate toxic, can you get a food grade, etc? Finally, with all the security these days, can you buy small amounts from a chem house or hobby store or do you need permits and crap? Trying to figure out a way to drop water temps on a prototype item I am constructing, and temperature has become an issue for one device in general... thanks!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3558872


It seems to me that you're some kind of inventor who really has no chemical or scientific background.... Maybe you should team up with a local chemical engineer or even Chemistry teacher to bounce ideas off of.

The reason I say this that you offer no volume information what so ever, so there can either be no answer to your question or a multitude of answers, accounting for the volume and temperature variables.


Using NH4NO3 as a coolant is not very efficient, and the resulting dilution is mildly/moderately toxic if ingested.

How much water are you trying to cool and to what temperature?
 Quoting: Travis Bickle



Thanks. Maybe I can find a local chemist at the uni. Not that much water, probably, 8 oz max. Need a way to chill water peridocally without the use of power. Temperature of water will run from ambient to approx 150 degrees before it needs to be cooled down as far as possible, preferabbly ambient or less. Do you have any ideas on coolants that I can look at before talking to a chemist? Trying to get some ideas to see if plausible before spending all that time and money (which is tight). Thanks.
Travis Bickle
Vigilantes need love too....

User ID: 26788702
United States
12/04/2012 07:31 PM

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Re: Need some chemist help - anyone?
I was wondering how much Ammonium nitrate is required per liter of water to drop the temperature, and how much will it actually drop the temp to - freezing? Also, is ammonium nitrate toxic, can you get a food grade, etc? Finally, with all the security these days, can you buy small amounts from a chem house or hobby store or do you need permits and crap? Trying to figure out a way to drop water temps on a prototype item I am constructing, and temperature has become an issue for one device in general... thanks!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3558872


It seems to me that you're some kind of inventor who really has no chemical or scientific background.... Maybe you should team up with a local chemical engineer or even Chemistry teacher to bounce ideas off of.

The reason I say this that you offer no volume information what so ever, so there can either be no answer to your question or a multitude of answers, accounting for the volume and temperature variables.


Using NH4NO3 as a coolant is not very efficient, and the resulting dilution is mildly/moderately toxic if ingested.

How much water are you trying to cool and to what temperature?
 Quoting: Travis Bickle



Thanks. Maybe I can find a local chemist at the uni. Not that much water, probably, 8 oz max. Need a way to chill water peridocally without the use of power. Temperature of water will run from ambient to approx 150 degrees before it needs to be cooled down as far as possible, preferabbly ambient or less. Do you have any ideas on coolants that I can look at before talking to a chemist? Trying to get some ideas to see if plausible before spending all that time and money (which is tight). Thanks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3558872


I'm assuming here that you're talking about 150 Fahrenheit and not Celsius. The problem your going to run into with Endothermic reactions of any kind is that they are short lived and not renewable. You would need a constant supply of chemicals and provide a way to deal with the waste. The endothermic reaction is an absorption of energy (heat) to complete the chemical process:

NH4NO3 + H2O ----> NH4OH + HNO3

So mixing water and Ammonium Nitrate results in a solution of ammonium ions, nitrate ions, ammonia, and acid protons. Once that process is complete, it's done.

You may want to look at a Peltier cooler to suit your needs, but it will require power.

Last Edited by Travis Bickle on 12/04/2012 07:32 PM
One of these days... A *REAL* rain is gonna come and wash all this scum off the streets.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 3558872
United States
12/04/2012 07:38 PM
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Re: Need some chemist help - anyone?
Thanks. Thats what I was thinking, temp, short solution. I wonder if they make micro steam coolers? The heat byproduct that the unit generates could be used to produce heat energy...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1499591
Netherlands
12/04/2012 07:39 PM
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Re: Need some chemist help - anyone?
All about the storage... Must spread it on large surface , more efficient Is u have 1 liter intween large glasplates u can cool in secconds.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22323395
United States
12/04/2012 07:42 PM
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Re: Need some chemist help - anyone?
Releasing ammonia gas or any number of similar compounds to anyone's breathing zone is really asking for trouble, as anyone who's ever gotten a snootful can attest.

Is this thing for indoor use?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20679797
United Kingdom
12/04/2012 07:42 PM
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Re: Need some chemist help - anyone?
Are you trying to make a free energy device by any chance?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 3558872
United States
12/04/2012 07:43 PM
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Re: Need some chemist help - anyone?
Are you trying to make a free energy device by any chance?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20679797


No.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25390958
United States
12/04/2012 07:49 PM
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Re: Need some chemist help - anyone?
I was wondering how much Ammonium nitrate is required per liter of water to drop the temperature, and how much will it actually drop the temp to - freezing? Also, is ammonium nitrate toxic, can you get a food grade, etc? Finally, with all the security these days, can you buy small amounts from a chem house or hobby store or do you need permits and crap? Trying to figure out a way to drop water temps on a prototype item I am constructing, and temperature has become an issue for one device in general... thanks!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3558872


for your purposes this is simple.

Since the instant cold packs are water and the evil oxidizer. buy one and measure the water and chemical components and scale it up.

Be cautious as not all instant cold packs use the evil oxidizer.
And just so you know, the solution can burn sensitive skin
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25390958
United States
12/04/2012 07:50 PM
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Re: Need some chemist help - anyone?
Releasing ammonia gas or any number of similar compounds to anyone's breathing zone is really asking for trouble, as anyone who's ever gotten a snootful can attest.

Is this thing for indoor use?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22323395


no gas is released with the chemicals the op discussed.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25390958
United States
12/04/2012 07:54 PM
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Re: Need some chemist help - anyone?
just so you know, you can use the used instant cold packs as the excellent fertilizer it is. It's not a chemical reaction that changes anything from what it was, it remains water and fertilizer 0-0-34
Travis Bickle
Vigilantes need love too....

User ID: 26788702
United States
12/04/2012 08:02 PM

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Re: Need some chemist help - anyone?
just so you know, you can use the used instant cold packs as the excellent fertilizer it is. It's not a chemical reaction that changes anything from what it was, it remains water and fertilizer 0-0-34
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25390958


Ummm... NO!


Fertilizer              &     Water
|-------------------------------|
NH4NO3 (Ammonium Nitrate) + H2O


Mix them together and you get:

Ammonium Hydroxide &   Nitric Acid
|----------------------|
NH4OH        +        HNO3

in an Aqueous soution.

Last Edited by Travis Bickle on 12/04/2012 08:04 PM
One of these days... A *REAL* rain is gonna come and wash all this scum off the streets.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22048331
United States
12/06/2012 08:27 PM
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Re: Need some chemist help - anyone?
Um...try ice or dry ice?

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