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ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING

 
ANNONYMOUS
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12/06/2012 12:47 PM
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ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
5a

The so called Right to Work battle has come to Michigan. Right to work LEGISLATION is already in both Houses. Gov Rick (the nerd) Snider just announced his support for this Union Busting legislation. The Koch Bros campaign on TV started this morning pouring perhaps mill into the fight against the working man. If this RIGHT TO FREELOAD LEGISLATION PASSES and trust me that is exactly what it is the ultimate result will be the death of unionism which has since 1970 kept the worker on somewhat of a par with inflation unlike that which has happened to unorganized labor. Call your State Rep and Senator and tell them this kind of cabalistic activity will not be tolerated in Michigan. Send the Koch Bros a clear message this State can't be BOUGHT! I would suggest the Union leaders get together and call a GENERAL STRIKE of any and all Union workers in the State including all Government workers and at the same time initiate recall petitions against Gov Rick and any legislator who votes for this abomination.
ANNONYMOUS (OP)
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12/06/2012 01:06 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
bump
Anonymous Coward
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12/06/2012 01:11 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
Not to bust your bubble or anything, but the unions were the primary reason for the auto industry bailout. Unions have been holding GM hostage for decades and a lot of it is complete and total bullshit.
Anonymous Coward
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12/06/2012 01:14 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
Yeah the auto industry employs very few people in the area of MI I live in. The factories around here are all non-union now, paying 8-12/hr. It seems like the service industry is the only thing employing a good deal of people and they're not going to unionize unless you agree to pay $10 for your cheeseburger from now on.
Anonymous Coward
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12/06/2012 01:17 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
The battle for cheap labor continues. The idiots who think unions are a bad thing are either rich or brainwashed. Regardless, the front lines of this fight is with free trade. Where oh where have your jobs gone??
Anonymous Coward
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12/06/2012 01:18 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
My family have lived in MI for many, many years. They came from across the US to work in the auto industry. My grandparents were telling me how they could go work for a Ford plant, and if they didn't like it, walk out, go across the street, and get a job that day at GM. You would wait in a room at factories all around Detroit and a supervisor would come out and pick people to work for the day. If they liked you they hired you. Absolutely insane to me.
PadrePio

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12/06/2012 01:21 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
Yeah the auto industry employs very few people in the area of MI I live in. The factories around here are all non-union now, paying 8-12/hr. It seems like the service industry is the only thing employing a good deal of people and they're not going to unionize unless you agree to pay $10 for your cheeseburger from now on.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11803834


Not to mention, it's because of Teachers unions that a specific teacher from Detroit, after hitting a child, got put on paid leave for 4 weeks. Then after being found guilty, was on 2 week leave and then returned to the class.

You wonder why Detroit is going down? In addition to corruption, you can't fire anyone, no matter how bad they are at their job, and no matter how many good qualified people there are.
ANNONYMOUS (OP)
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12/06/2012 01:34 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
Yeah the auto industry employs very few people in the area of MI I live in. The factories around here are all non-union now, paying 8-12/hr. It seems like the service industry is the only thing employing a good deal of people and they're not going to unionize unless you agree to pay $10 for your cheeseburger from now on.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11803834


Not to mention, it's because of Teachers unions that a specific teacher from Detroit, after hitting a child, got put on paid leave for 4 weeks. Then after being found guilty, was on 2 week leave and then returned to the class.

You wonder why Detroit is going down? In addition to corruption, you can't fire anyone, no matter how bad they are at their job, and no matter how many good qualified people there are.
 Quoting: PadrePio


5a

I'm not sure about your first issue but I can tell you your last paragraph is totally FALSE. In most Districts new teachers are not given TENURE until aqfter they have taught for 3 years. Even when they have been granted TENURE there IS a proceedure for release. The problem as per usual MOST SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS frankly will not do what is necessary by law to fire these teachers. It requires documentation and a TENURE HEARING somewhat cumbersome but established to see to it that JUSTICE is served.
ANNONYMOUS (OP)
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12/06/2012 01:49 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
Yeah the auto industry employs very few people in the area of MI I live in. The factories around here are all non-union now, paying 8-12/hr. It seems like the service industry is the only thing employing a good deal of people and they're not going to unionize unless you agree to pay $10 for your cheeseburger from now on.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11803834


5a

Well good luck to you on that hourly rate. $10 per hour equates to about $21,000 gross. After taxes and Soc Sec perhaps $18,000 a year clear. Your people are LIVING BELOW the poverty rate!
ANNONYMOUS (OP)
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12/06/2012 02:09 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
bump
Anonymous Coward
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12/06/2012 02:26 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
Yeah the auto industry employs very few people in the area of MI I live in. The factories around here are all non-union now, paying 8-12/hr. It seems like the service industry is the only thing employing a good deal of people and they're not going to unionize unless you agree to pay $10 for your cheeseburger from now on.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11803834


5a

Well good luck to you on that hourly rate. $10 per hour equates to about $21,000 gross. After taxes and Soc Sec perhaps $18,000 a year clear. Your people are LIVING BELOW the poverty rate!
 Quoting: ANNONYMOUS 8415236


No shit, how do you propose the wages are raised without a huge increase in price, or just more off-shoring when workers demand a living wage? The charitable elites decide they won't get paid anymore? Why would they do that? Or, alternately, wages become 'liveable' across the board, prices all rise accordingly, and we're in the same place, but carrying around more pieces of paper than before to get the same things?
Anonymous Coward
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12/06/2012 02:28 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
It's not a problem you can solve. Either we stop having this charade of free markets where we get offended that businesses fulfill the purpose of their design, the highest profits, and transition to communism, or we accept the current conditions as the only possible consequence of a system put in place many years ago. We are fucked.
ANNONYMOUS (OP)
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12/06/2012 03:00 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
Yeah the auto industry employs very few people in the area of MI I live in. The factories around here are all non-union now, paying 8-12/hr. It seems like the service industry is the only thing employing a good deal of people and they're not going to unionize unless you agree to pay $10 for your cheeseburger from now on.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11803834


5a

Well good luck to you on that hourly rate. $10 per hour equates to about $21,000 gross. After taxes and Soc Sec perhaps $18,000 a year clear. Your people are LIVING BELOW the poverty rate!
 Quoting: ANNONYMOUS 8415236


No shit, how do you propose the wages are raised without a huge increase in price, or just more off-shoring when workers demand a living wage? The charitable elites decide they won't get paid anymore? Why would they do that? Or, alternately, wages become 'liveable' across the board, prices all rise accordingly, and we're in the same place, but carrying around more pieces of paper than before to get the same things?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11803834


5a

Wow you must live under a rock. The price increases have and will continue. Prices aren't receeding. 9% actual increase this year alone. It's the wages that for the most part have not kept up with the rate of inflation. In short that means tha the standard of living of a large number of Americans has in reality declined. The only reason this has not created a revolution was EASY CREDIT. Credit took the place of wage increases allowing the average person to maintain their standard of living as long as they payed it back.
smokahontas

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12/06/2012 03:08 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
Not to bust your bubble or anything, but the unions were the primary reason for the auto industry bailout. Unions have been holding GM hostage for decades and a lot of it is complete and total bullshit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18432713


bumpclappa
"I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire

"Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley
smokahontas

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12/06/2012 03:10 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
I lived in Flint when G.M. employees went on strike for a month and lost 55 million dollars for the company over the fucking VISION part of their insurance....

Unions are half the reason the U.S. has closed 56,000 factories since 2001.
"I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire

"Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley
ANNONYMOUS (OP)
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12/06/2012 03:10 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
5a

I have to laugh the Koch Bros are using the same tactics they used to defeat prop 2. Collective Bargaining is protected by Fed Law according to their TV AD unless of course there is no COLLECTIVE which means every man for himself and the devil take the hindmost.
ANNONYMOUS (OP)
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12/06/2012 03:23 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
I lived in Flint when G.M. employees went on strike for a month and lost 55 million dollars for the company over the fucking VISION part of their insurance....

Unions are half the reason the U.S. has closed 56,000 factories since 2001.
 Quoting: smokahontas


5a

I beg to differ with you. Those who claim the UNIONS were greedy seem to overlook the fact that there are 2 parties to any agreement. The reality is for the most part MANAGEMENT rolled over consistently rather then perform its part of the bargaining giving in to the UNIONS at every turn. Don't blame the UNIONS for fighting for their membership that is their FUNCTION.
smokahontas

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12/06/2012 03:36 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
I lived in Flint when G.M. employees went on strike for a month and lost 55 million dollars for the company over the fucking VISION part of their insurance....

Unions are half the reason the U.S. has closed 56,000 factories since 2001.
 Quoting: smokahontas


5a

I beg to differ with you. Those who claim the UNIONS were greedy seem to overlook the fact that there are 2 parties to any agreement. The reality is for the most part MANAGEMENT rolled over consistently rather then perform its part of the bargaining giving in to the UNIONS at every turn. Don't blame the UNIONS for fighting for their membership that is their FUNCTION.
 Quoting: ANNONYMOUS 8415236


With all due respect, I know personally..people who work for Ford, G.M. and Chrysler.. All of them are spoiled, brainwashed and overpaid. I have been a journeyman painter for 17 years and never belonged to, or needed a union. They were a great thing in the 30's but like everything are a corrupt, greedy org. now. It may not be fair but in order to compete in the manufacturing world these union workers are gonna have to bite the bullet or lose it all.
"I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire

"Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley
ANNONYMOUS (OP)
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12/06/2012 03:44 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
5a

With all due respect your last reply sounds like sour grapes to me.
smokahontas

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12/06/2012 03:51 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
Hostess.... over 8% paycut... Saw Flint city workers go on strike and get layed off over a 4% paycut. Have you stopped and had a look at the economy? The U.s's number one export is trash, number two is the dollar. Our GDP is flat, our debt is unsustainible, we have offshored manufacturing. We do not invent or make shit anymore. We have lived the high life for 60 years and now we have to pay for it. As of 2/9/12 70% of the Federal Gov budget goes to individual assistance programs. This is the end of empire, All democracies end in Tyranny. So honestly the Unions are a moot point. When the lights go out and the FEMA camps open it will not matter.hf
"I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire

"Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley
smokahontas

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12/06/2012 04:04 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
If all the states around michigan it will ruin the state EVEN MORE... Cant fight the change. But I hear the idiots are trying to rush the senate chamber and getting their asses pepper sprayed.
"I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire

"Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley
ANNONYMOUS (OP)
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12/06/2012 04:06 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
Hostess.... over 8% paycut... Saw Flint city workers go on strike and get layed off over a 4% paycut. Have you stopped and had a look at the economy? The U.s's number one export is trash, number two is the dollar. Our GDP is flat, our debt is unsustainible, we have offshored manufacturing. We do not invent or make shit anymore. We have lived the high life for 60 years and now we have to pay for it. As of 2/9/12 70% of the Federal Gov budget goes to individual assistance programs. This is the end of empire, All democracies end in Tyranny. So honestly the Unions are a moot point. When the lights go out and the FEMA camps open it will not matter.hf
 Quoting: smokahontas


5a

The pure problem with Hostess is its brand is no longer sustainable in our current society and the way it looks at food. The only way they had a prayer was to secure concessions up the wazoo and even then there was no guarantee they would survive. What about the EXECS who got $1.8 mill bonus for five or six so they would stick around and close the door. As for the rest you can lay that in the lap of your wages not keeping up with the rate of inflation. This has forced the unfetttered use of credit which led to the collapse. Along the way we began outsourcing and BUYING a shitload of foreign goods. Cheaper and therefore the declineing pay went further. Just for your edification back in 2007 the Fed Res was so intent on the poor balance of payments they completely missed the housing fiasco.
ANNONYMOUS (OP)
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12/06/2012 04:10 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
5a

Channel 4 just reported protestors are being locked out of the Legislative building and 5 have been pepper sprayed. Yep, Democracy at its finest! Rick you are nothing more than a TOOL admit it already!
smokahontas

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12/06/2012 04:11 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
would you rather have Jenifer back?
"I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire

"Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley
smokahontas

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12/06/2012 04:13 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
I agree with your take on Hostess, but in the end the Unions are part of the reason companies fled to the south and the American worker union or not is who made it flee the country all together. We invented the coffee break. we require a lunch, insurance, vacation, holidays, sick time, overtime, ect ect. The rest of the world doesnt, it does not make it Right but it is the facts.
"I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire

"Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored." Aldous Huxley
Anonymous Coward
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12/06/2012 04:13 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
Not to bust your bubble or anything, but the unions were the primary reason for the auto industry bailout. Unions have been holding GM hostage for decades and a lot of it is complete and total bullshit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18432713


bumpclappa
 Quoting: smokahontas


moren that, the unions are the actual ones responsible for the wage-price spiral, what with holding the economy hostage periodically and pissing on the only ones not at the bargaining table, the non union or self employed worker.
Make no mistake about unions, you cant start your own, you have to be one of the annointed organized crime ones.
You try to start your own union, and you end up in a shallow grave in the desert or in a cubed junk car being fed into a foundry pot.
The only fair method of negotiations with a union is to have a non union entity also in the bargain, but unions have, in collusion with the dems made any version of competition impossible, having been granted a de facto monopoly for the public to pay for.
Anonymous Coward
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12/06/2012 04:14 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
Yeah the auto industry employs very few people in the area of MI I live in. The factories around here are all non-union now, paying 8-12/hr. It seems like the service industry is the only thing employing a good deal of people and they're not going to unionize unless you agree to pay $10 for your cheeseburger from now on.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11803834


SEIU is currently "on strike" in front of an old age home near me in Connecticut. They've had this "picket line" up for about a year now, it looks ridiculous.

But the service workers, heavily Mexican, are big into unionization. Really it's unfair that this facility has to put up with this nonsense from these people. They should just be fired and replaced at market wage, otherwise care will be too expensive for the old folks in the facility.
ANNONYMOUS (OP)
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12/06/2012 04:16 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
would you rather have Jenifer back?
 Quoting: smokahontas


5a

wtf does that mean? The simple truth is we are doing better now not because of the NERD but rather SIMPLE ECONOMICS. Francis the talking mule could have been elected with the same results. Yep, I guess we got Rick the talking ass so thats OK.
Anonymous Coward
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12/06/2012 04:17 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
Hostess.... over 8% paycut... Saw Flint city workers go on strike and get layed off over a 4% paycut. Have you stopped and had a look at the economy? The U.s's number one export is trash, number two is the dollar. Our GDP is flat, our debt is unsustainible, we have offshored manufacturing. We do not invent or make shit anymore. We have lived the high life for 60 years and now we have to pay for it. As of 2/9/12 70% of the Federal Gov budget goes to individual assistance programs. This is the end of empire, All democracies end in Tyranny. So honestly the Unions are a moot point. When the lights go out and the FEMA camps open it will not matter.hf
 Quoting: smokahontas


5a

The pure problem with Hostess is its brand is no longer sustainable in our current society and the way it looks at food. The only way they had a prayer was to secure concessions up the wazoo and even then there was no guarantee they would survive. What about the EXECS who got $1.8 mill bonus for five or six so they would stick around and close the door. As for the rest you can lay that in the lap of your wages not keeping up with the rate of inflation. This has forced the unfetttered use of credit which led to the collapse. Along the way we began outsourcing and BUYING a shitload of foreign goods. Cheaper and therefore the declineing pay went further. Just for your edification back in 2007 the Fed Res was so intent on the poor balance of payments they completely missed the housing fiasco.
 Quoting: ANNONYMOUS 8415236


Hostess workers were stupid, killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. Bimbo will just buy all the factories and the brand name, and start over without contracts or pension obligations in place, neat and clean.
Anonymous Coward
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12/06/2012 04:19 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
Not to bust your bubble or anything, but the unions were the primary reason for the auto industry bailout. Unions have been holding GM hostage for decades and a lot of it is complete and total bullshit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18432713


bumpclappa
 Quoting: smokahontas


moren that, the unions are the actual ones responsible for the wage-price spiral, what with holding the economy hostage periodically and pissing on the only ones not at the bargaining table, the non union or self employed worker.
Make no mistake about unions, you cant start your own, you have to be one of the annointed organized crime ones.
You try to start your own union, and you end up in a shallow grave in the desert or in a cubed junk car being fed into a foundry pot.
The only fair method of negotiations with a union is to have a non union entity also in the bargain, but unions have, in collusion with the dems made any version of competition impossible, having been granted a de facto monopoly for the public to pay for.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25390958


I don't mind the unions organizing private employers quite so much.

What is really bad is the public employee unions like teacher unions. They have an actual monopoly and can force us to pay taxes to pay their contracts. As FDR said such unions should be outlawed.
ANNONYMOUS (OP)
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12/06/2012 04:20 PM
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Re: ATTENTION MICHIGANDERS the Unholy CABAL is After Your Standard of LIVING
I agree with your take on Hostess, but in the end the Unions are part of the reason companies fled to the south and the American worker union or not is who made it flee the country all together. We invented the coffee break. we require a lunch, insurance, vacation, holidays, sick time, overtime, ect ect. The rest of the world doesnt, it does not make it Right but it is the facts.
 Quoting: smokahontas


5a

The fact is that most westernized nations do have all of those things. The 3rd world doesn't because they don't even have a pot to piss in until they bring us down to their level.

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