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A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS

 
Top Hat
Top Hat

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12/07/2012 07:23 AM

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A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
Grantham thinks the number of people on Earth has finally and permanently outstripped the planet's ability to support us.
Grantham believes that the planet can only sustainably support about 1.5 billion humans, versus the 7 billion on Earth right now (heading to 10-12 billion).
Basically, Grantham thinks most of us are going to starve to death.
Why?
In part because we're churning through a finite supply of something that is critical to our ability to produce food: Phosphorus.
Phosphorus is a critical ingredient of fertilizer, and there is a finite supply of it. The consensus is that we will hit "peak phosphorus" production within a few decades, after which point our phosphorus supply will inexorably decline. As it declines, we will be unable to feed ourselves. And you know the rest.


Read more: [link to www.businessinsider.com]



[link to www.businessinsider.com]
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 07:28 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
It'll be ok, Israel has tons of the stuff.
We just need to ask them to help us out.
dzijane

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12/07/2012 07:32 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
If the elite stopped pretending they were gods and interfering and tinkering with dna, food supply etc there would be enough, as it is the world is being manipulated to appear as if people are lacking. All part of the doom plan. They want to destroy billions of people to "save the planet" the truth of this is, they already have so much, they want the rest! Are going to try very hard to get it and no-one in the west realises because a princess just got pregnant, they are busy getting the flu jab and sitting in front of the alter of tv watching Xfactor
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 07:42 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
You'll think it's foolish, but the answer is urine. There has been scientific documentation to prove that applying urine to crops is at least as effective to chemical fertilizers.

The issue is one of learning to channel the urine and fecal matter into two seperate streams. The current means of flushing human waste makes zero sense given it pollutes so badly our water supply. It's likely that in 50 years we won't have toilets anymore, not in their current configuration, but will recycle both kinds of waste to cut our need on declining fertilizers.

If you seperate urine from feces, then the urine can be watered down to directly feed plants. Human waste takes a long time to properly compost, but still it will be done as it just makes good economic sense.

Sometimes the answer to doom is simple, it's just a matter of developing the will and ingenuity to fix it.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 07:53 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
We will depopulate by then. Not to worry.

Don't fear death.
Daybreak

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12/07/2012 08:00 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
never heard this info before...Thanks.
Daybreak
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 08:02 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
Alchemists can make Phosphorus.


Just like we can make Gold.


We practice the art of transmutation.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 08:13 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
Grantham thinks the number of people on Earth has finally and permanently outstripped the planet's ability to support us.
Grantham believes that the planet can only sustainably support about 1.5 billion humans, versus the 7 billion on Earth right now (heading to 10-12 billion).
Basically, Grantham thinks most of us are going to starve to death.
Why?
In part because we're churning through a finite supply of something that is critical to our ability to produce food: Phosphorus.
Phosphorus is a critical ingredient of fertilizer, and there is a finite supply of it. The consensus is that we will hit "peak phosphorus" production within a few decades, after which point our phosphorus supply will inexorably decline. As it declines, we will be unable to feed ourselves. And you know the rest.


Read more: [link to www.businessinsider.com]

[link to www.businessinsider.com]
 Quoting: Top Hat


This article is BS.

When compost breaks down, there is phosphorous. Adding manure to the compost will increase the phosphorous content to the same levels provided by commercial fertilizers.

Plants have grown, survived and thrived for billions of years without the additional application of phosphorous. Bananas contain phosphorous, so obviously it is not a finite source. More phosphorous is being created all of the time.

Feeding the world isn't a problem. Greenhouses and hydroponics located in cities can easily provide enough agriculture for large populations (look at Holland), but the land cannot tolerate more chemicals for wheat and GMO corn for the vegetable oils to meet the universal consumption of junk food. This article is just a scare tactic; mind conditioning for the masses to keep the self-labeled elite in control of the world's resources. If you put every human being on the planet on a 1/4 acre of land, they would all fit in Australia with room left over. Obviously we have enough space to feed ourselves.
Fred
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12/07/2012 08:14 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
As another poster already pointed out, we are wasting sewage.
The Romans even collected waste for fertilizing crops. No reason we can't.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 08:15 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
Alchemists can make Phosphorus.


Just like we can make Gold.


We practice the art of transmutation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15740069


Uh... you know that alchemists distilled and calcinated buckets of urine, right??
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 08:52 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
It's particularly insane to flush our waste into our limited clean water supply. Given high population density, do you really want to drink the water from your municipality? How bizarre is that concept to begin with?

If you want to look at real "doom" do any rational perusal of scientific study of the growing clean water shortage. That's far more realistic. We may be fighting over oil now, but in the future, it likely will be over water rights.

It's true, we can't keep mining rock phosphate in sufficient amounts to provide enough food for the world. We particularly can't produce enough grains if we end up creating ethanol for fuel.

The real issue is probably to alter our agricultural practices and most like (horrors) give up meat consumption. I'm a true carnivore, but I anticipate for economic reasons that if the world population keep increasing, especially in density, that fewer and fewer people will feed grain to livestock to produce meat. It's dumb.

Of course we probably will simply change our diets and farming methods, and the need for chemical fertilizers will go by the wayside since we'll run out. It's that or discover new sources.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 09:10 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
You'll think it's foolish, but the answer is urine. There has been scientific documentation to prove that applying urine to crops is at least as effective to chemical fertilizers.

The issue is one of learning to channel the urine and fecal matter into two seperate streams. The current means of flushing human waste makes zero sense given it pollutes so badly our water supply. It's likely that in 50 years we won't have toilets anymore, not in their current configuration, but will recycle both kinds of waste to cut our need on declining fertilizers.

If you seperate urine from feces, then the urine can be watered down to directly feed plants. Human waste takes a long time to properly compost, but still it will be done as it just makes good economic sense.

Sometimes the answer to doom is simple, it's just a matter of developing the will and ingenuity to fix it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1110734


I read that during World War II the people used to go out on the street and pick up the horse poop to use in their gardens as fertilizer .... They were having a fertilizer shortage then, so they used what was at hand
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 09:15 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
[link to www.scientificamerican.com]

One of the most respected scientific journals says that urine is as good as chemical fertilizer (if not better based upon size and yield).

The issue is people changing their ways. Of course if we have a collapse, it's either grow your garden and compost yourself, or starve and sit in your own filth.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 09:17 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
[link to www.scientificamerican.com]

One of the most respected scientific journals says that urine is as good as chemical fertilizer (if not better based upon size and yield).

The issue is people changing their ways. Of course if we have a collapse, it's either grow your garden and compost yourself, or starve and sit in your own filth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1110734


Last I heard, there's no shortage of piss and shit.

We're saved! 5a
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 09:24 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
Peak resources of any kind is fear mongering bullshit. We live on a planet of over-abundant raw materials.

'Natural resources' simply don't exist. Raw materials are converted into resources via the ingenuity and creativity of men. We have barley begun to tap into what this planet has to offer, and that's not even considering what else is near by in the solar system.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 09:28 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
It's particularly insane to flush our waste into our limited clean water supply. Given high population density, do you really want to drink the water from your municipality? How bizarre is that concept to begin with?

If you want to look at real "doom" do any rational perusal of scientific study of the growing clean water shortage. That's far more realistic. We may be fighting over oil now, but in the future, it likely will be over water rights.

It's true, we can't keep mining rock phosphate in sufficient amounts to provide enough food for the world. We particularly can't produce enough grains if we end up creating ethanol for fuel.

The real issue is probably to alter our agricultural practices and most like (horrors) give up meat consumption. I'm a true carnivore, but I anticipate for economic reasons that if the world population keep increasing, especially in density, that fewer and fewer people will feed grain to livestock to produce meat. It's dumb.

Of course we probably will simply change our diets and farming methods, and the need for chemical fertilizers will go by the wayside since we'll run out. It's that or discover new sources.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1110734


Don't worry new sources are being discovered all the time. Methane hydrates in particular, represent 5000 times more energy then all the petrochemical reserves of the world. Methane hydrates will begin to be harvested from sea-floor deposits em masse within the next 5-10 years. Like coal these hydrocarbon compounds can be manufactured into a wide variety of chemicals, plastics, drugs, fertilizers, explosives etc. There is also huge amounts of coal too.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 09:34 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
Grantham thinks the number of people on Earth has finally and permanently outstripped the planet's ability to support us.
Grantham believes that the planet can only sustainably support about 1.5 billion humans, versus the 7 billion on Earth right now (heading to 10-12 billion).
Basically, Grantham thinks most of us are going to starve to death.
Why?
In part because we're churning through a finite supply of something that is critical to our ability to produce food: Phosphorus.
Phosphorus is a critical ingredient of fertilizer, and there is a finite supply of it. The consensus is that we will hit "peak phosphorus" production within a few decades, after which point our phosphorus supply will inexorably decline. As it declines, we will be unable to feed ourselves. And you know the rest.
 Quoting: Top Hat

Food production is chemical in nature. Since it doesn't break up elements like in a nuclear reaction, the phosporus is just "elsewhere".
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 09:36 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
Alchemists can make Phosphorus.


Just like we can make Gold.


We practice the art of transmutation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15740069


Uh... you know that alchemists distilled and calcinated buckets of urine, right??
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18432713



Yes because we are after the Salt in the Urine.

With the correct salt you can dis-incorporate metal and steal its soul.

Once you have the soul its easy to multiply more and use it for Projections.


Did you know that everything in nature contains a Salt once it is calcinated ?


When you combine Salt with Mercury you obtain the menstruum. Which is a key that unlocks all metals.


This is how you can steal its sulphur.




Alchemy hint 101:

Salt, Sulphur and Mercury are not the common Table Salt, Yellow brimstone or Quick Silver.

These are roles which are taken on by matter. Their are a number of Salts, Sulphurs and Mercuries.

It is the combination and proportion of this Alchemical Trinity that forms an Element.
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 09:46 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
Alchemists can make Phosphorus.


Just like we can make Gold.


We practice the art of transmutation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15740069


Uh... you know that alchemists distilled and calcinated buckets of urine, right??
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18432713



Yes because we are after the Salt in the Urine.

With the correct salt you can dis-incorporate metal and steal its soul.

Once you have the soul its easy to multiply more and use it for Projections.


Did you know that everything in nature contains a Salt once it is calcinated ?


When you combine Salt with Mercury you obtain the menstruum. Which is a key that unlocks all metals.


This is how you can steal its sulphur.




Alchemy hint 101:

Salt, Sulphur and Mercury are not the common Table Salt, Yellow brimstone or Quick Silver.

These are roles which are taken on by matter. Their are a number of Salts, Sulphurs and Mercuries.

It is the combination and proportion of this Alchemical Trinity that forms an Element.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15740069


You could also use regular chemistry and physics, IE metallurgy. It works really well, but you have to learn calculus...
Anonymous Coward
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12/07/2012 10:10 AM
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Re: A Genius Investor Thinks Billions Of People Are Going To Starve To Death — PEAK PHOSPHORUS
Take a look at this pic and I will explain what you are seeing.


[link to i48.tinypic.com]


This is a modern glassware flask inside a sand bath which is digitally controlling the Fire.


Inside you can see the Menstruum of Salt and Mercury dissolving some Gold Chain Links.