TO ALL CHRISTIANS

Actually 4 billion years is 25% of the 16 billion and counting years of the grand scheme of universal evolution... At least to the point we have made it to so far. I agree with you however that Man created the gods as a source of comfort and then control over their peers.

yeah, the universe evolves. let's go with that

Read a REAL history book and not one that is laced with self contradiction and superstition. I'll gladly take the words of someone who doesn't talk to burning bushes, puts 2 of every animal on earth on the same boat, or comes back as a zombie 3 days after being killed over those that do.

You need to read(reread) Genesis. Also, the church in the time Jesus walked the earth was corrupt as it and the gov are now. I have to wonder if your doubt is in Jesus walking the earth, Him being the Messiah or just the Holy Bible in general. History records Jesus of Nazareth lived. Was He the foretold Son of God that brings reconciliation to the world? I believe He is. It cannot denied He was the most influential man to ever live regardless of what you believe.

I can ask any christian how they know what they know is true lol but they have nothing. Look at the pyramids, the tablets, in south america, europe, asia, and probably more than I know. What did your Jesus leave you?

Don't mention the bible or me and anyone who isn't a shill will just laugh lol.

Genesis came from Sumeria too lol

You should re read genesis as well.

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

GEN 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life

So, god created animals, and then man... But because man was lonely he made animals... and because the serpent talked eve into eating from the tree of life (which wasn't really a serpent, but Lucifer in disguise) he took its legs from it and it can only eat dirt.. Bet thats a big relief to all the small rodents out there... oh wait snakes eat them. Wonder if it's because the snakes can't read.

Mesopotamia: The First Civilization

Authorities do not all agree about the definition of civilization. Most accept the view that "a civilization is a culture which has attained a degree of complexity usually characterized by urban life." In other words, a civilization is a culture capable of sustaining a substantial number of specialists to cope with the economic, social, political, and religious needs of a populous society. Other characteristics usually present in a civilization include a system of writing to keep records, monumental architecture in place of simple buildings, and an art that is no longer merely decorative, like that on Neolithic pottery, but representative of people and their activities. All these characteristics of civilization first appeared in Mesopotamia.

[link to history-world.org]

If you would like to read the rest. But I will say that this civ predates Christ by over 3,000 years. Now where is your proof that Christianity is 100% real, original, and based in reality?

P.S. Waiting to hear you debunk my scripture contradictions, should be interesting.

Where do you clowns come from?

Satan has GOT to be laughing his ass off... LOL.

You are one of the seeds that didn't take root.

Lean not unto your own understanding, but acknowledge HIM in all your ways, and HE shall guide thy path.

Good questions.................next time, use PARAGRAPHS, though.

The wicked are destroyed when they are cast into the lake of Fire. Not given eternal life, in torment. The wages of sin, is DEATH.

However, the SMOKE of their torment, will rise forever and ever.

Your biggest enemy, is your own biblical ignorance, and reliance on OTHERS, to explain the scriptures to you. The Roman Catholic church is what first came up with the doctrine of "eternal torment". They did this for OBVIOUS reasons. And to this day, the daughters (most Protestant denominations) of the Harlot (RCC) are also teaching this non-biblical doctrine.

The bible is very clear that the wicked will be ASH. The will be CONSUMED int the smoke and fire, as will Satan. The bible says that they will "be as if they never were". Not "root or branch" left of them.

I never could understand why god needed to sacrifice his own son for some 'original' sin that made no sense to me.

This bothered me also. When I asked , why did Christ have to die for my sin? , the answer was something vague saying that my sin needed to be forgiven. And I thought, if God is so loving why can't he just forgive me when I ask him. After reading Oswald chambers writings I now see why his death was necessary.
If I said that God cannot forgive sin an uproar will occur, every time. Surely he forgives sin doesn't he. Yes, but only on the basis of what Christ did on the cross. Why? It is because God is perfect in every way, love mercy, grace, kindness etc. how does God forgive my sins, if I ask him to, and still have the sins "on record" and in my own presence now and worse yet in Gods presence if he were to take me to heaven. This is not perfection. But God demands us to be perfect. How is this done.
2 Corinthians 5 :19-21 explains the great substitution. " for He was made sin, who knew no sin, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. Think. The perfect Jesus died on the cross for the sin of the WHOLE WORLD , vs 19, and what great feat does God ask of us to do. Nothing, only by faith believe his plan. Belief gives us vs 21 the righteousness of God, which is perfect.
The original sin was a hereditary trait, all we're affected. So that God could remain perfectly just he judged his own son at the cross for our salvation to be possible, and after we believe in His plan God sees the righteous nature that Christ has instead of our sinful nature we were born with. This is the work of his glorious spirit. Don't give up on Christ. People being judgmental hinders us from seeing the truth but it does not relieve the need we desperately have for Christ.

Part of a story is as helpful as guessing a book by it's cover. I know what God wants me to know. And you never came close to hitting the point I was making to the OP. The answer they seek is there.

So you accept the explanation in the bible of what becomes of the 'wicked' yes?

Do you also accept the other parts of the bible, the ones that condone slavery, stoning, rape, and mass genocide? Surely you must accept everything you read from the bible or else it would be you who is guilty of biblical ignorance, correct?.

So do you accept & condone those atrocities that are also outlined in the bible?

While part of the story is as good as judging a book by its cover, pointing out flaws in said story one need only stick to the relevant parts. I'm pretty sure with the judeo-christian expansion campaign that has been ongoing for the last 2,000 years most people are familiar with the story of Genesis, and what went on in the garden.

If not I'll sum it up.

God made everything some things he made twice.
God tells man "Do not eat of the fruit of the tree of life"
The serpent (Lucifer) tricks Eve into eating of the fruit.
Eve talks Adam into eating of the fruit.
They both gain knowledge because they ate the fruit.
God gets angry.

Now this is just my opinion but doesn't God almost represent TPTB that want to keep the general masses ignorant and placid so they are easily controlled?

Christians will tell you till they are blue in the face that the giant man who lives in the sky is better than all the other giant men, and women who lived in the sky before him, and when this is pointed out to them in a calm, rational manner they will deny it with their dying breath.

God loves all, except for non belivers. They can go to hell, and it is your duty as a christian to send them there. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. ROM 6:23. Isn't it a sin to not believe in God? To have pre-marital sex? To take the lords name in vain? To lie?

Christians stole the pagan holy days and made them their own, tortured hundreds of thousands in the name of Gods love, started wars, and that's just of the top of my head. More atrocities have been committed in the name of God than any other reason, but God is love...

Did you ever think this could have all been fabricated from the beginning by superior beings???

One of the best reasons to trust The Bible…The Word of God, is because it is fully separate from any other text in its ability to accurately predict the future!

Biblical prophecy teaches us that God Is and that He controls events, whether past, present or future!

Isa 48:3,5
“I have foretold the former things from the beginning; and they went out of My mouth; and I made them hear; I acted suddenly; and they came about.
And I declared it to you from the beginning. Before it happened I revealed it to you; lest you should say, My idol has done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, has commanded them.”
Isa 46:9-10
“Remember former things from forever; for I am God, and no other is God, even none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from the past things which were not done, saying, My purpose shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure”
Gen 12:1-9 written about 4,000 years ago concerning the Jews – God called Abram (Abraham) to leave his country with the promise that He (God)would make a nation from Him! God gave Abraham the land that is Israel (Gen 13:14-17 / Canaan) as an *everlasting* possession in Gen 17:7-8! Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael…to which God made the following promise to Isaac: “Sojoun in this land, and I will be with you and bless you; for to you and your descendants I will give all the theses lands; and I will perform the oath which I swore to Abraham your father. And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven, I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the world shall be blessed (Gen 26:3-4) God also promised Jacob; “The land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, I give to you; and to your descendants after you…” (Gen 35;12!
These aforementioned passages deliver *specific* prophecies such as:
– A great nation from Abraham
– Abrahams name will be blessed
– Abraham will be a blessing to all nations (Jesus’ Life and Work on The Cross / Salvation)
– All who bless Abrahams descendants will be blessed
– All who curse Abrahams descendants will be cursed
– Abrahams descendants will own the land forever
– Abrahams descendants will be too numerous to count
In the book of Deuteronomy 28:15,64 God told Abrahams descendants that if they where disobedient He would scatter them among across the earth! God also promised to bring all the descendants of Abraham *back* after being scattered (Deut 30:1-3)
- God would remove them from the land if they were unfaithful to Him…He did!
- God *did* bring them back from the corners of the earth…which constitutes *the only time* in human history that a national people who were thoroughly dispersed reconstituted back into their original land…an amazing prophecy! Now a tid bit; consider what Mark Twain wrote about the Jewish people that highlights their miraculous longevity:
“If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one per cent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way. Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of; but he is heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world’s list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine…are also way out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvelous fight in this world, in all the ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it. The Egyptian, the Babylonian and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in the twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew’ all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?” The “secret” is no secret…it is God Almighty! The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob! The Bible is replete with proven prophecy…I respectfully submit that if one does not believe The Word of God, it is only because that one has chosen unbelief! While Biblical difficulties do exist…they can be answered…The Bible *is* inerrant and to be trusted!

I can see by your words (truly stated without arrogance nor sarcasm) that you are ignorant of what you speak! In fact, all you are doing is pitting your opinions against The Word of God! You and I are totally broken, flawed and fallible…why rage in ignorance against The Most High God? I don’t speak to jet propulsion because I am not a rocket scientist…yet you disdain and mock The Word of God without understanding it? Pride is the absolute *worst* thing a human being can harbor! Why not search out The Scriptures before you reject His Word?

makes a lot more sense than the egocentric arrogance that a magic godmanwizard that always existed created everything and humans are special because they look like him.

Not talking about the garden either. Wasn't meant for you. Let it go or ask God for sight. You don't have to believe to ask and get what you ask for. And I am unaware of God condoning/requiring the deaths of anyone since Jesus Christ was born. I would love to ask the Pope what the hell was up with the crusades. This was men using God's name in their interests. I'm sure it wasn't the 1st or last time that happened. why were we not given ALL the Books of the Gospel in the published New Testament? Most are unaware of the books banned from the Bible. 12 disciples and 4 witness accounts out of them. another instance of men deciding what we need and dont need to know. Another wonder of whether or not that was the intent.
For all that the Bible does say, following the quotes of Jesus in his parables and instructions on how we should be to each other, you won't go wrong as long as you remember who He is. The Christ.

Last Edited by GoldenRuled on 12/09/2012 03:27 AM

From JDB
– All who bless Abrahams descendants will be blessed

This I had not remembered. I have always supported Isreal and their right to exist. Perhaps why the majority of Christians support them.

Yes,

We may not know God's whole purpose for us but to see a glimpse we can just look at the end of the bible.

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.

God's people will be his temple and God will dwell with them. God does not dwell in a temple made by hand. He created the temple he will dwell in and that temple is mankind.

Acts 7:48 “However, the Most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands, as saith the prophet:


1 Corinthians 6:19 What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you and which ye have from God, and that ye are not your own?

There are plenty of transitional fossils. You're just saying there aren't cos you need to lie to yourself to keep your picture of the world from shattering.

If god designed humans why did he make our knees, ankles and lower backs so weak and vulnerable to injury and damage?

What proof do you have the bible is true?

Come on convert me. Prove the bible is true. Not what you believe - prove it to me - thanks ....waiting.

evolution is thoroughly debunked by former professor of evolution Walter Veith... there are three presentations important to see, covering dna, fossils and other problems...

just one example... (he has many)

mountain ranges erode at the rate of up to 2 meters every 1,000 years. Scientist say that the mountains exist over huge expanses of time because the earth continues to push itself upwards, thus the mountain range does not erode away completely. However, the fossil record that is supposed to be millions of years old certainly would!

103 - Bones in Stones / Genesis Conflict - Walter Veith

[link to www.youtube.com]



OP--I am not so good w faith... but have a list of some good places to start if you want truth:

Thread: John Lear is wrong about Christ (much as I like him) :)

when bell was trying to invent the phone did he know this could be done? absolutely not, he had to have faith that if he just kept up long enough he might be proven right and we really could talk through wires.

or what of the airplane? if they had not had the faith in themselves to believe it true we may still be walking.

faith and belief in things not yet seen are what drives us, no?

and without doubt you too have a form of faith and belief, one that says, "god didn't do this".

yeah, how do you know? put some logical thought into that!!

you don't... you just believe through things you've read and heard, you have a belief. only difference twixt us is you think your belief is rooted in "reality" and mine in "fiction".

fact is however both must rely on faith in what information led to the belief; that the information is correct.

you all have your scientists to prove your reality and I have my proof in myself for that is where the kingdom of god is and where his spirit is, in us.

and the proof in myself manifests in the fruit produced and the things i have been taught by the spirit of Jesus Christ which is in me. I can no more deny the witness in myself than i could deny my own daughter.

i need no outside proofs to teach me he is true for he has taught me himself. he is forever faithful and loves me enough to correct me in measure, a father.

through my mouth my father has warned others of calamity to come, yet unheeded the word was and the prophesied words came... not of myself but of him who is in me, Jesus, my Father.

i asked him once, a time when I thought death had come calling, to spare my life for my children's sake. i saw as it were a form of a man sitting on a throne saying, "be it unto you as you wish", and immediately i was whole again and could feel the fat return to my skin.

my friends, Jesus indeed lives and so does his Father. he created all that you see and all belongs to him for his pleasure. if you spend your time doting on the weeds you may never see the flowers.

Ok...let's look at this from another perspective, shall we?

The Scriptures say that 'a day is as a thousand years with the Lord and a thousand years is a day.'

Soooo, if that is the case, Adam and Eve were created on the sixth day. What if that is an example/analogy of 'all mankind' were created on the sixth day?

During the sixth day, the serpent tempted Eve who seduced Adam and they sinned, which is what mankind has been doing all of these years.

The Scriptures say that on the seventh day God rested and Jesus said that the seventh day (Sabbath) was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

I'm not a normal 'Christian' because I try to rely on what our Father tells me personally and keep Him in a very large box. When a person is referring to the Creator of all things, it's best to not even put Him in a box, to be honest.

That's just my two cents, for what it's worth....