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Christians, did jesus use the KJV?

 
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 27211004
Canada
12/09/2012 07:24 AM
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Re: Christians, did jesus use the KJV?
Yes, Jesus used the Masoretic text found in the KJV
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29002615


Hmm, the masoretic text was not finnished till 1000 Ad.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27211004



The oldest copy may be that date but it is identical to the DSS.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29002615


What language was the DSS writen in?

As I recall only the jews and the RC church had acsess to the DSS.
Anonymous Coward
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Netherlands
12/09/2012 08:20 AM
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Re: Christians, did jesus use the KJV?
Christ did not "use" the Word.. Christ IS the Word .

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29371972


Then why didn't he write a single word of the NT?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/09/2012 08:26 AM
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Re: Christians, did jesus use the KJV?
Christ did not "use" the Word.. Christ IS the Word .

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29371972


Then why didn't he write a single word of the NT?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22089462


He was the word.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24488287
United States
12/09/2012 08:35 AM
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Re: Christians, did jesus use the KJV?
Christ did not "use" the Word.. Christ IS the Word .

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29371972



Yes but every Sabbath he went to the Synagogues and preached from the Law & Prophets, and often quoted from them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29002615


Thats right. What I wanna know is what book did he point to?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27211004
Do you have evidence, that he pointed to any?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 29385174
Brazil
12/09/2012 01:19 PM
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Re: Christians, did jesus use the KJV?
It seems that the techniques employed in standardizing the text were already present at the time of Jesus. With great rigour (the scribes of that time didn't fail at this).

The scribes didn't tolerate errors, and my unsderstanding is that one only error would cause all the page to be not just discared, but to be burnt so it was guarranted not to be mixed into other books or being read accidentally by other people.

Since KJV (1611) follows Masoretic, and Masoretic is closest to what they had at the time (probably identical, given the rigour), then KJV (1611) is the closest to what Jesus was reading/quoting at His time.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/09/2012 01:42 PM
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Re: Christians, did jesus use the KJV?
I would so well no.

But now matter which translation you go with they all same about the same thing

download e-sword [link to www.e-sword.net]
compare them all.
Pretty much the same
 Quoting: reaperz73


But e-Sword.net doesn't have all the texts in existence, it does not even have any of the Aramaic Text lines at all.

And it does not yet have any of the Dead Sea Scrolls Hebrew texts either. And there are many Greek texts that are not to be found on e-Sword yet. e-Sword also gets liked to the inexhaustive Hebrew to Englsih and Greek to English lexicons of Strong's.

e-Sword is a good start, but only a good start. sorta like the 1st week of 5th Grade.

The Old Testament, aka, the Tanach even of the older manuscripts and codice of Hebrew never had any vowel markings. It is the Oral Law(or Traditions of the Pharisees) that decided between 137 A.D. and into the 1100 A.D., to decide what vowels of the Hebrew 'should be' as to be inserted. The Tradition of pronouncitation was considered to be The Authority. Go figure.

At least the LXX has vowels in it.

Was it originally KJV.. no way in hell, or wait, yes, Only in Hell was the KJV the 'original Bible'. Same could be said of the NIV for that matter.

Did Abraham write a Book? If so, in what Language? He was of Ur of the Chaldeans according to the later 'Bible'.. what language writing system did Abraham use?

Abraham is reckoned to have lived somewhere around 2,300 B.C. to 2,100 B.C.

Do we have any of Jacob-Isreal's 'book'? If he had written it down for his prosperity? What writing system would Jacob-Israel have used? We don't know.

What we have or at least many thing they have is a line of textual descend apparently down from the time of Ezra and Neimiah's day. What writing system did they use or discover in the ruins of Solomon's Temples? WE don't know.

Lots Not Known -- Lot's no longer in existence in its original forms.

In 300 more years will the original parchament of the U.S COnstituion even still be in physical existence? Or will only copies of copies of copies of it then still exist?

Big questions...

Its all By Faith.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27972246
United States
12/09/2012 02:00 PM
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Re: Christians, did jesus use the KJV?
You cannot change the words and meaning of the original languages so that is the constant. The variable is the English translation; just how accurate does the English version convey the meaning of the original. I've done the work. I can tell you hands down the KJV is the most correct. But it does contain errors and even the 50 original KJV translators wrote a 50 page letter to the reader for guidance and info pertaining to the translation effort and possible mistakes.

So have you done the due diligence yourself before trying to make an issue where there is not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18225135


"You cannot change the words and meaning of the original languages so that is the constant."

That claim is fraudulent.

Take the Torah. The Hebrew of the Torah, alleged by many to have been written down allegedly in Moses' own hand.

Moses is thought to have lives somewhere between 1,900 B.C. and 1,300 B.C. depending on what chronologies one takes as their favorite one.

Ezra and Nehemiah writing or copying in somewhere around 500 B.C. (very roughly speaking)... would have been speaking a Hebrew language that was around 800 years newer or more recently than Moses...

Just go back to the spoken English (where are the MP3 recording of people actualy speaking in English in 1,200 A.D. btw) the English speaker of today would not have the sligthest idea what that 1,200 A.D. English speaker was saying. Attempt to read Old English and see how far you get unless you have deeply studied it... for instance.

The meanings of words change over generations, do they now? Even to the place where "True" is "Lie".. in standard Orwellians fashion.

Who writes the Lexicons of translation tools? Ah.. but there is the rub.

He that Controls the Lexicons is the True Magi.

Even Luther understood that. As did all the Popes of antiquity.

Even Jerome understood that -- in his 405 A.D. Vulgate, understood that.

The KJV is nothing more than a Politically Correct version of an English Translation. Just as in its day the Bishop's Bible or the Geneava Bible translations were also seen as the 'politicaly correct' translation version of the Bible in those culutres.

We don't have any of the original hand written texts of any of this all in existence today. The closest we can come seems to be those texts found in the Dead Sea Scroll themselves in their thousands of fragments at that.
Anonymous Cowherder
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User ID: 28230270
United States
12/09/2012 02:38 PM

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Re: Christians, did jesus use the KJV?
You cannot change the words and meaning of the original languages so that is the constant. The variable is the English translation; just how accurate does the English version convey the meaning of the original. I've done the work. I can tell you hands down the KJV is the most correct. But it does contain errors and even the 50 original KJV translators wrote a 50 page letter to the reader for guidance and info pertaining to the translation effort and possible mistakes.

So have you done the due diligence yourself before trying to make an issue where there is not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18225135


"You cannot change the words and meaning of the original languages so that is the constant."

That claim is fraudulent.

Take the Torah. The Hebrew of the Torah, alleged by many to have been written down allegedly in Moses' own hand.

Moses is thought to have lives somewhere between 1,900 B.C. and 1,300 B.C. depending on what chronologies one takes as their favorite one.

Ezra and Nehemiah writing or copying in somewhere around 500 B.C. (very roughly speaking)... would have been speaking a Hebrew language that was around 800 years newer or more recently than Moses...

Just go back to the spoken English (where are the MP3 recording of people actualy speaking in English in 1,200 A.D. btw) the English speaker of today would not have the sligthest idea what that 1,200 A.D. English speaker was saying. Attempt to read Old English and see how far you get unless you have deeply studied it... for instance.

The meanings of words change over generations, do they now? Even to the place where "True" is "Lie".. in standard Orwellians fashion.

Who writes the Lexicons of translation tools? Ah.. but there is the rub.

He that Controls the Lexicons is the True Magi.

Even Luther understood that. As did all the Popes of antiquity.

Even Jerome understood that -- in his 405 A.D. Vulgate, understood that.

The KJV is nothing more than a Politically Correct version of an English Translation. Just as in its day the Bishop's Bible or the Geneava Bible translations were also seen as the 'politicaly correct' translation version of the Bible in those culutres.

We don't have any of the original hand written texts of any of this all in existence today. The closest we can come seems to be those texts found in the Dead Sea Scroll themselves in their thousands of fragments at that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27972246


have you ever read "The Gods of the Copybook Headings" by Kipling.

speaks to this same matter, language being changed and manipulated...

[link to www.kipling.org.uk]
I'm a Libertarian Constitutionalist.

I don't give a shit what you do with your own life, whether you make it a success or a failure, that is an outcome of the choices you make, but please take responsibility for yourself and don't make ME pay for YOUR choices and we're all good.

Repeal the 17th Amendment and the Apportionment Act of 1911!

Thread: First steps down the road to a return to the Constitutional Republic that we were intended to be.

Restore the Republic.

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cow - Moo!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 27211004
Canada
12/09/2012 03:35 PM
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Re: Christians, did jesus use the KJV?
Christ did not "use" the Word.. Christ IS the Word .

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29371972



Yes but every Sabbath he went to the Synagogues and preached from the Law & Prophets, and often quoted from them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29002615


Thats right. What I wanna know is what book did he point to?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27211004
Do you have evidence, that he pointed to any?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24488287


He was always useing scripture so the scripture he studied and used had to be written down as a reference.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 27211004
Canada
12/09/2012 04:01 PM
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Re: Christians, did jesus use the KJV?
It seems that the techniques employed in standardizing the text were already present at the time of Jesus. With great rigour (the scribes of that time didn't fail at this).

The scribes didn't tolerate errors, and my unsderstanding is that one only error would cause all the page to be not just discared, but to be burnt so it was guarranted not to be mixed into other books or being read accidentally by other people.

Since KJV (1611) follows Masoretic, and Masoretic is closest to what they had at the time (probably identical, given the rigour), then KJV (1611) is the closest to what Jesus was reading/quoting at His time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29385174


Greek was the high language of jesus' day. Masorite was an invened language of best guesses to reconstruct a dead language. Arabic was a common/low language. The real israelites probably spoke greek because it was close to the ancient hebrew language of moses who spoke phonecian.