The "RAPTURE" Doctrine is a LIE!

Pray and count yourselves worthy to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS that are to come (Meaning the Tribulation) That sure sounds like the Rapture to me????


You have your freedom of choice, but if you don't PRAY AND ASK TO BE COUNTED WORTHY TO GO IN THE RAPTURE, YOU WON'T GO????

I choose Jesus words over peoples words, I'm praying!!!!

Yep, its a FARCE.

These Israelites broke it down COMPLETELY.




You're going to be HIGHLY disappointed if you're waiting on a rapture

YOU NEED TO LOOK NO FURTHER THAN REVELATION 7 FOR THE TRUTH ABOUT THE RAPTURE. After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,

from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,

from the tribe of Gad 12,000,

6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,

from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,

from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,

7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,

from the tribe of Levi 12,000,

from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,

8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,

from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,

from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

The Great Multitude in White Robes

9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:

“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore,

“they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne
will shelter them with his presence.
16 ‘Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat down on them,’[a]
nor any scorching heat.
17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne
will be their shepherd;
‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’
‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’[c]”
The multitude came out of the great tribulation. It was not before or after, but in the midst of it. It happens after the woes of the sixth seal and.. before the seventh seal is opened. It is concurrent with the sealing of the 144,000.

There are many teachings and beliefs that are not true but those who believe them are entitled to believe them!!!
Why do you feel the need to pick on this one?

Damn it! I invested a lot of money in my rapture hatch.

Who then do you say are these; found in Rev 5:

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth..." Rev 5:9-10

[link to godsview.net]

These are also described as being dressed in white, wearing crowns and seated upon thrones.

All things describing the overcoming church in the preceding letters...

The rapture doctrine is less than 200 years old.
I was a devout Christian for many years.
Then, little bits of evidence and contradictions started popping up that made me question not only Christianity but all religions. Most religious believers trip over a truth at some time that should raise doubts about their faith, but brush it of and blindly continue on.

I did not want to suffer in hell but I did not want to go crazy singing Cum By Ya for eternity.

The powers that be control you not only from the barrel of a gun, but we are controlled more subtlely with religious fictions teaching it is morally superior to obey evil Overlords.

People will hold to a beautiful lie with the crowd rather than
stand alone knowing the truth.

If the claim is true that our spirit is eternal going forward from our physical birth, then reason dictates our spirit was eternal going in to the past.

The Eastern idea of reincarnation has a lot more credibility than the belief that you just have one chance to get everything right to get rewarded or punished for eternity.

The one thing I learned here on this time around is that I sure as hell do not want to come back and get beat down again by the powers that be. I want to roam the universe and see what is really out there.

Because it's one of the most commonly accepted false teaching and needs to corrected.

Last Edited by Veresanctus on 12/09/2012 07:52 PM

You are wise. : )

after years of study independantly and reading different commentaries on the matter, I dont see a pre tribulation rapture in the scriptures.

I dont see where Jesus returns multiple times, and I dont see where it says Christians will take off flying into the air just before tribulation.

Ive come to believe it is a lie that is being purpotrated by satan upon the churches.

If god wants to rapture me, im not going to object, but I dont think its something that should be taught on in an intense matter in church, as The scripture just isn't there to prove it 100 percent unless you take some verses out of context, or mis interpret.

The fact is that the modern apostate church wants to escape persecution in America, persecution that all other christians in the last 2000 years has had to endure for their faith. This generation thinks it special and Jesus will save them from that persecution. He didnt promise smooth sailing, he promised soul salvation for those that follow him as best they can no matter what, come hell or high water.

The common teaching that the saved will be secretly raptured away leaving the wicked is NOT TRUE!

PLEASE WATCH BEFORE REFUTING

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Being wrapped up in mainstream chrisitanity in America has left a bad taste in alot of peoples mouths and they want nothing to do with it anymore.

All the different denominations, the creeds, the cliques, the dressing up, the prosperity gospel, the pshycology, the backstabbing, the hypocrits, the lies.

Satan has been in the church for a long time.

You dont have to go to church to be a Christian, that is a myth. There is a few verses below that Mainstream american preachers will use to tell you that you have to come to church, and specifically their church to be a good Christian. The thing is that the things spoke about below are not practiced in the churches today. Majority is just entertainment, show, competition, posistion grabbing, and very little fellowhsip and brotherly love.

I attend an Independant Christian Church (reformation Movement) and we have our problems, but we care for one another, and were not for show.

Hebrews 10:24-25 ESV / 33 helpful votes

And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.



Colossians 3:16 ESV / 27 helpful votes

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.



1 Timothy 3:14-15 ESV / 13 helpful votes

I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these things to you so that, if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth.



The old testament, God Dwelt in the Temple, he no longer dwells in a building, but if your a christian his spirit should dwell in your heart, therefore a building is not required.




Psalm 122:1-9 ESV / 11 helpful votes

A Song of Ascents. Of David. I was glad when they said to me, “Let us go to the house of the Lord!” Our feet have been standing within your gates, O Jerusalem! Jerusalem—built as a city that is bound firmly together, to which the tribes go up, the tribes of the Lord, as was decreed for Israel, to give thanks to the name of the Lord. There thrones for judgment were set, the thrones of the house of David. ...



Psalm 150:2 ESV / 7 helpful votes

Praise him for his mighty deeds; praise him according to his excellent greatness!

No rapture here,what I read is that those people have to DIE see Rev. 6:11,in otherwords you have to die for the testimony.As a Martyr

The 144000 stay on earth and go where ever the Lamb goes.

You are incorrect.

JOHN 14:



Jesus Comforts His Disciples

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

The 144,000 are earmarked for testament to this earth. They have Book of Life names and the seal of God. No harm comes to them. The multitude goes on. The two witnesses will die at the end of their 1260 day ministry.

1 COrinthians 15:52

in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.


Matthew 24:31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.


John 5:28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice


1 Corinthians 15:23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

You are correct. Time is nigh. I suggest people start praying to be members of the Kingdom of the one true God, saved through his Son Jesus and be given their eternal names in the Book of Life and reborn in water. Thank him for it now.

Does it not say "All things are possible with God?" Then why would people want less?

Our Savior Lord Jesus said that the only sign that would be given to those who questioned faith and did not understand the signs would be the sign of Jonah. There are wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes of greater magnitude and more frequent in divers places, famine, signs in the heavens, etc, but yet many do not see the time is nigh. Father is correct. Not until three days of darkness encompass this earth will the doubters be convinced just as Jonah was within the belly of a whale for three dark days and nights. Then know when all lands are moved from their place and then.. the winds stop, the Son of Man will return in a cloud of glory.

Like to see your face on the day of the rapture.
SURPRISE!!!!

If you look at Revelation, the marytred go to a place under an altar where they are upset; asking when will their deaths be avenged ... and they are told to be patient just a little while longer. It states their souls rest under the altar. However, contrast that with the ones dressed in white robes who cast their crowns before the throne. Two different states ...the raptured are the ones dressed in white robes. Physical, resurrected beings just like Jesus -with a body that went from corruptable to incorruptable. However the souls that are under the altar are killed during the Tribulation and have been told to patiently wait. All are up in heaven until Jesus brings his kingdom back down to earth for the battle of Armageddon.

Furthermore, the bible states the Lord will descend with a shout - drawing all true believers to him. Never says his feet touch down (like later on the Mount of Olives when he comes back and the mountain splits)

Two different events.

Not my words and not the words of some woman two hundred years ago. He descends with a shout. The resurrection first and then the rapture. Makes no sense for a resurrection to happen...fly up to heaven and then come right back down. No. When the resurrection happens, the Tribulation will be going on and it's not time for Armageddon yet. The armies of heaven come down for that - that means raptured saints, marytred saints and resurrected saints.

The work of the 144,000, they will be Deliverers just as Moses was a deliverer when the church came out of Egypt, this time 144,000 assemblies of Mt Zion in the Greater Exodus from all the nations

They are upon Mount Zion

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Zion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand, having His Father's name written in their foreheads. Rev 14:1

They are deliverers

And deliverers shall come up on Mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be YHWH's Ob 21

They will escort the assemblies in the Greater Exodus

And YHWH will create upon every dwelling place of Mount Zion, and upon her Assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence Is 4:5

According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I show unto him marvelous things.

Greater Exodus

Therefore, behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that they shall no more say, YHWH lives, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, YHWH lives, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land. Jer 23:7-8

When > The Great Tribulation, during Jacobs Trouble

As a shepherd seeks out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out My sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. Ez 34:12

Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it. Jer 30:7

That which has been is now; and that which is to be has already been; and ELOHIYM requires that which is past. Ecc 3:15

Look to the past to see the future, How YHWH did it in the past, Is how He will do it in the future

And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you Face to face. Ez 20:33-35

Watch you therefore, and pray always, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man. Lu 21:36

The Woman with the twelve stars/ Tribes of Israel

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of ELOHIYM, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. Rev 12:6,14

You have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto Myself. Ex 19:4

Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her. And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of trouble for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt. Hosea 2:14-15

Just because you come out in an assembly, It doesn't mean you will enter the land of Israel.

And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against Me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and you shall know that I am YHWH. Ez 20:38

As He did it in the past, Is how He will do it in the Future

And Deliverers shall come up on Mount Zion to judge the mount of esau; and the kingdom shall be YHWH's. Ob 21

Moreover, brethren, I would not that you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 1 Cor 10:1

So is the lie that we're "cast out" of the garden, whereas in reality we chose to walk out and started playing with fire instead of sitting around it(don't get me wrong, fireworks are neat).

Consider this information carefully--

God's wrath is upon those who have rejected Gods love extended to us through Jesus Christ and his finished work of the cross.

God's wrath was poured out on Jesus Christ for our sin. Why would he save wrath and punishment for a later date for believers on the earth? That doesn't make any sense. True believers are the bride of Christ. Why would Christ beat up his bride by sending her through the tribulation and wrath intended for the unbelievers? When Christ said, "It is finished"--- It was finished.

"...and to wait for his Son from heaven, who he raised from the dead , even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."
1Thess.1:10

"For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him."
1Thess.5:9,10

As believers we are the bride of Christ. Why would he beat up his bride by s

All the sinners of My people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor precede us. In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen… Amos 9:10-11

I pray not that thou should take them out of the world, but that thou should keep them from the evil…Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; John 17:15,20

The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth. Proverbs 10:30

Because thou has kept the Word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The First Commandment, Believe in Me

I am YHWH thy ELOHIYM, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. Ex 20:2-3

Those who believe the Evil will not precede them, go before them saying they will be raptured are the foolish virgins running out of oil and will not be kept from the hour of trial, for not believing His Word.