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Colosssians 1:24?

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2012 09:52 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
I'm wondering if we are suffering on behalf of others to make up for th sins of others.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


seems that way sometimes, huh?
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2012 09:54 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
You mean:

(Col 1:24 Vulgate) qui nunc gaudeo in passionibus pro vobis et adimpleo ea quae desunt passionum Christi in carne mea pro corpore eius quod est ecclesia

Have fun.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27972246


The Latin above would seen to give a hint to the English of "Passion" and "Passionings"..

Perhaps it really would be better to translate it as Passion and Passions than 'suffer' and 'suffering'.. etc.

Of course I can't show in this lack of Fonts what the Greek has without some form of Greek letters to English letters transliteration scheme being imposed. Same the sort of problem in speaking of the Hebrew texts or Aramaic... this forum not having put in the full Unicode for posting can be a problem in certain desired discussions.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
It seems to say that the sufferings of Christ are not enough and that when we suffer we also suffer on behalf of others... Is this correct?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


A person who turns their life over to Christ is indwelt by the Spirit.....and connected with God.

They are from that point in time a part of the body of Christ.


Just as He suffered......you will also have a period of suffering.....because you are a part of Him now.


You can research about this "fellowship of suffering."


"But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, AFTER YOU HAVE SUFFERED A WHILE, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you."

1 Peter 5: 10
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29004976


Also helpful: 2 Corinthians 1: 1-14
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/09/2012 09:57 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
I'm wondering if we are suffering on behalf of others to make up for th sins of others. And if this is so, can we also repair for others sins through our own prayers and sufferings. I feel a very strong calling to repair for the past human history through prayer. I feel that is my work I am being called to at this time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Is there any other scripture that would support this calling I feel? Why would I feel this calling? Is possible to repair for the sins of others on their behalf?
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2012 10:01 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
I'm wondering if we are suffering on behalf of others to make up for th sins of others.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


seems that way sometimes, huh?
 Quoting: Neoanderthal Man


Yes, it sure does.. the 'active' sins of others, their shortcomings and failings.. of course that would be all of us as well.. as none of us have it perfectly 'sinless' in that sense.. we are still 'learning' as it were.
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2012 10:01 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
Because it says there is somethIng lacking in the sufferings of Christ. I'm just wondering about people's views on the subject.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


I'm reading different versions, so I can see how you may assume this.


Here's the ESV
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church.

Here's the KJV:
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church

NLT
I am glad when I suffer for you in my body, for I am participating in the sufferings of Christ that continue for his body, the church.

Notice with the ESV, it states, 'lacking'. I believe this was a poor choice of word, or translation, which one may then mistranlate. If you read the KJV, or NLT, you see it doesn't imply that Jesus's sufferings were lacking. Rather, the other two versions, suggests, we're continuing his work. Paul, is preaching and sharing the Gospel with others. And this is what Jesus commanded us to do, although by doing this, we may endure hardships or 'sufferings'.
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2012 10:04 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
I'm wondering if we are suffering on behalf of others to make up for th sins of others. And if this is so, can we also repair for others sins through our own prayers and sufferings. I feel a very strong calling to repair for the past human history through prayer. I feel that is my work I am being called to at this time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Is there any other scripture that would support this calling I feel? Why would I feel this calling? Is possible to repair for the sins of others on their behalf?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


This would 'seem' to tie into the prayers of intercessions for others via the power and manifestation of the gift from the Holy Spirit.

As of "past human history"? Or just the past histories of each person's own history at this time in which they are now living and alive?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/09/2012 10:05 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
I'm wondering if we are suffering on behalf of others to make up for th sins of others.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


seems that way sometimes, huh?
 Quoting: Neoanderthal Man


Yes, sometimes I feel that a person may have a good heart and not be aware of the severity of the harm they are causing. Some people might have a conversion of heart later on in life.. And so in the meantime others take on the burdens that that individual is not carrying for him or herself. My conflict arises with the issue of Jesus sufferings ... They should be sufficient. And anyway how can anyone else possibly make amends for all that goes on in the world? Yet I feel strongly in my heart the desire to repair for everything. So... I don't know if I should feel that way or not. And yet, if the sufferings of Christ were sufficient there would no longer be any suffering.????
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2012 10:07 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
Because it says there is somethIng lacking in the sufferings of Christ. I'm just wondering about people's views on the subject.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


I'm reading different versions, so I can see how you may assume this.


Here's the ESV
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church.

Here's the KJV:
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church

NLT
I am glad when I suffer for you in my body, for I am participating in the sufferings of Christ that continue for his body, the church.

Notice with the ESV, it states, 'lacking'. I believe this was a poor choice of word, or translation, which one may then mistranlate. If you read the KJV, or NLT, you see it doesn't imply that Jesus's sufferings were lacking. Rather, the other two versions, suggests, we're continuing his work. Paul, is preaching and sharing the Gospel with others. And this is what Jesus commanded us to do, although by doing this, we may endure hardships or 'sufferings'.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16711658

Thank you for providing the Translation indicators of the versions you are using. I wish more would do that.

If you do enough study of the various English translations' versions you will eventually realize they are families of older language text lines.. sort of like Family Trees of Scriptual Text lines.

Those the do such stances as "KJV Only" approaches just seem not to be able to see past a single only version of translators interpretations and editing... which are all artifical in the first place, just as verse divisions are artifical.
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2012 10:07 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
I'm wondering if we are suffering on behalf of others to make up for th sins of others. And if this is so, can we also repair for others sins through our own prayers and sufferings. I feel a very strong calling to repair for the past human history through prayer. I feel that is my work I am being called to at this time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Is there any other scripture that would support this calling I feel? Why would I feel this calling? Is possible to repair for the sins of others on their behalf?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Yes, being an intercessor, or praying for others, is a very high and noble calling.

Ephesians 6:18 Pray in the Spirit at all times and on every occasion. Stay alert and be persistent in your prayers for all believers everywhere.

Acts 1:14 They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.

Luke 18:1 Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up.

1 Timothy 1:1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior...
ceawaves

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12/09/2012 10:09 PM

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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
It seems to say that the sufferings of Christ are not enough and that when we suffer we also suffer on behalf of others... Is this correct?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800

24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,


Paul wrote that, i believe he meant, his sufferings for his faith in Christ, was nothing compared to what Christ went though for him and for 'the church', that his suffering was because of his faith in Christ and for the church to grow, to last, and endure though the ages.
 Quoting: ceawaves


Perhaps much better to take a closer look at the various Greek texts themselves to see how accurate of interpretations into the English are in the first place. Perhaps they have been poorly interpreted into English from the Greek text lines. One has to be careful of the prepositions in particular in the interpretations from the Greek prepositions into the English prepositions.

It is upon such 'cuts' that all the various denominations, including the Orthodox and Roman Catholic theologian make their bread and butter.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27972246


We're also told when we read scripture, we will receive understanding,though the Holy Spirit, don't believe there's a need for all that cross referencing, JK is the only translation I read, when I read that, then put into prospective of all the things Paul went though, and how he was before, when he was Saul..To me means what he said it meant. He suffered for being a disciple of Jesus Christ and for Christ's Church.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/09/2012 10:10 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
I'm wondering if we are suffering on behalf of others to make up for th sins of others. And if this is so, can we also repair for others sins through our own prayers and sufferings. I feel a very strong calling to repair for the past human history through prayer. I feel that is my work I am being called to at this time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Is there any other scripture that would support this calling I feel? Why would I feel this calling? Is possible to repair for the sins of others on their behalf?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


This would 'seem' to tie into the prayers of intercessions for others via the power and manifestation of the gift from the Holy Spirit.

As of "past human history"? Or just the past histories of each person's own history at this time in which they are now living and alive?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27972246


Everything. I feel that we, not just myself but others too might have a special calling to repair for the past, for human history for individuals, countries, events everything so that all will be fulfilled as God had originally intended through prayer. Is there a scriptural basis for this calling I feel?
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2012 10:11 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
I'm wondering if we are suffering on behalf of others to make up for th sins of others.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


seems that way sometimes, huh?
 Quoting: Neoanderthal Man


... And yet, if the sufferings of Christ were sufficient there would no longer be any suffering.????
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


The Christ destroyed the penalty of sin and power of sin OP.... Which is spiritual death.

His suffering was more than sufficient to serve this penalty.

Can we bear others burdens in this life? Of course. We are called to bear others burdens OP.

But if we do, how much more does God?

peace,
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/09/2012 10:19 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
past present and future from the first human beings to the last everything
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2012 10:20 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
Can we bear others burdens in this life? Of course. We are called to bear others burdens OP.

But if we do, how much more does God?

peace,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370


I would add, that this is the essence of the eternal priesthood; the order of Melchizedek... Of whom The Christ is the High Priest.

peace,
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2012 10:23 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
Can we bear others burdens in this life? Of course. We are called to bear others burdens OP.

But if we do, how much more does God?

peace,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370


I would add, that this is the essence of the eternal priesthood; the order of Melchizedek... Of whom The Christ is the High Priest.

peace,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370


"For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity.

And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.

And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing"

[link to godsview.net]

peace,
CeeLite

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12/09/2012 10:28 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
Wasn't he in prison when he wrote that? (Someone could have posted that if so sorry). Many of the epistles are written while he was in prison. Makes more sense if you read it in that context, at least to me it makes sense.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/09/2012 10:29 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
I'm wondering if we are suffering on behalf of others to make up for th sins of others.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


seems that way sometimes, huh?
 Quoting: Neoanderthal Man


... And yet, if the sufferings of Christ were sufficient there would no longer be any suffering.????
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


The Christ destroyed the penalty of sin and power of sin OP.... Which is spiritual death.

His suffering was more than sufficient to serve this penalty.

Can we bear others burdens in this life? Of course. We are called to bear others burdens OP.

But if we do, how much more does God?

peace,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370


Thanks for your input peace to you
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2012 10:29 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
I'm wondering if we are suffering on behalf of others to make up for th sins of others. And if this is so, can we also repair for others sins through our own prayers and sufferings. I feel a very strong calling to repair for the past human history through prayer. I feel that is my work I am being called to at this time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Is there any other scripture that would support this calling I feel? Why would I feel this calling? Is possible to repair for the sins of others on their behalf?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


I'm gonna from the jump admit I'm likely gonna be labled a heretic.
I have issues redefining christianity by way of those claimed to be apostles that somehow apply any number of apparent varying dictates that dont seem to come directly from the words of jesus himself, and as such, I have a hard time calling what paul or others come up with strict 'christianity'.
Furthermore, the various gospel authors seem to be more hebraic generally that even the hebrew jesus was in application of rules and codes and regulations that have nothing to do with the specific words of christ himself or his acts.
That being said, my assessment of the general thrust of jesus' directives is personal responsibility, and not formulaeic ritualism pervasive throughout the hebrew doctrine.
I dont get much about any emphasis on trying to do for others what they didnt or wouldnt do for themselves while alive. Exhortations to consider other peoples pasts seem to be more for reinforcment of ones own appreciations of christs life and words, rather than the casting of spells or incantations more involved with process than principle of selfdetermination.

So maybe that may redirect your quest from seeking validation by taking on the cause of others in the past and already in their reward, such as it is, at the present time.
and more for introspection and finding some method of easing the burden of those which can be redirected to a better future while here still on the planet and afterwards.

Best regards
Zerubbabel

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12/09/2012 10:37 PM

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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
The MAINLINE understanding of Christ's sacrifice is that it was ALL finished at the cross. None of us need suffer nor die to satisfy the claims of the Law (of which Paul was an EXPERT, hand picked by the scholars of the day). However, Christ said that He must leave so that the Comforter may come (to finish a work IN THEM) and so that He could return and "prepare the Mansions" in heaven.

Christ is the Mediator between the Father and man. That is not just a "passive" undertaking. Each and EVERY person who has ever lived must have his "record" examined in the Heavenly court. Every prophecy in the Scriptures is conditional upon the acts of man. Many a prophet has stated "conditions" for their fulfillment and the activity of angels (even the Savior, Himself) has resulted in changing the minds of others to bring about a desired effect. Jonah warned of the destruction of Ninevah, but the destruction was averted by the repentance of the people. Jonah tried everything to avoid this warning, but eventually (by divine intervention) he gave in and gave the warning which was heeded.

Jesus, Himself, said that I and the Father work. That is not a small statement. They are not just sitting on some cloud waiting for man to get it together. They are ACTIVELY engaged in our salvation. The prayers of the saints are heard and acted upon. When it is all done and the statement is made to "let those who are unjust be unjust still, ..." the censor which holds the incense (which rises to God and is a sween smell in His nostrils) is cast down indicating that His mediation for fallen man is over. His "work" is done. The example that He was on earth, is for us who travel the same road that He did and "carry their cross"--just by claiming His righteousness in place of their shortcomings. Christ was the "first fruit" and we are the "first fruits" of His suffering and sacrifice. In a very real sense, the word Tamid which is used for the word sacrifice means it is a continual sacrifice. In other words, that sacrifice (once and for all) reaches all the way into the past to give the sacrifice of animals legitimacy to cover the sin of the people in the Old Testament Sanctuary service--all the way to the end of time in the future. Remember, Paul was and EXPERT on the Law and shows how Christ fulfilled every single demand of the Law--right down to minute detail.

Our suffering, of course, is not even close to Christ's. He was ONE with the Father, and His suffering had nothing to do with physical pain. His suffering was being separated from God with the weight of the sin of the world upon Him. Before He died, His soul was satisfied as He looked at His sacrifice and saw that it was enough. Peter would not even let himself be crucified in the same way and was hung upside down instead--not willing to be equated with the infinite sacrifice of Christ. Even in the very last moments of this earth's history, the angels desire to come to our aid, but it is written that we must "drink of the cup, and be baptised with the baptism." This is the final finishing work IN US. We cannot do this by ourselves. We need help. Christ and the Father work--right to the very end of time.
The TRUTH is stranger than FICTION.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/09/2012 10:51 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
I'm wondering if we are suffering on behalf of others to make up for th sins of others. And if this is so, can we also repair for others sins through our own prayers and sufferings. I feel a very strong calling to repair for the past human history through prayer. I feel that is my work I am being called to at this time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Is there any other scripture that would support this calling I feel? Why would I feel this calling? Is possible to repair for the sins of others on their behalf?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Yes, being an intercessor, or praying for others, is a very high and noble calling.

Ephesians 6:18 Pray in the Spirit at all times and on every occasion. Stay alert and be persistent in your prayers for all believers everywhere.

Acts 1:14 They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.

Luke 18:1 Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up.

1 Timothy 1:1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16711658


Thank you, for all these scriptures. I understand the role of intercessor, but can one also repair for sins on behalf of others? I feel that maybe we are to participate in Christ's purpose in this way?
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2012 10:55 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
It seems to conflict with the teaching that Christ suffered once for all? It also implies another possible purpose or reason for human suffering?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


If we suffer because of our beliefs in Jesus Christ then we should rejoice. That is what it is talking about.

here are different translation of the verse and at the bottom more commentary.

[link to bible.cc]
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2012 11:01 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
The MAINLINE understanding of Christ's sacrifice is that it was ALL finished at the cross. None of us need suffer nor die to satisfy the claims of the Law (of which Paul was an EXPERT, hand picked by the scholars of the day). However, Christ said that He must leave so that the Comforter may come (to finish a work IN THEM) and so that He could return and "prepare the Mansions" in heaven.

Christ is the Mediator between the Father and man. That is not just a "passive" undertaking. Each and EVERY person who has ever lived must have his "record" examined in the Heavenly court. Every prophecy in the Scriptures is conditional upon the acts of man. Many a prophet has stated "conditions" for their fulfillment and the activity of angels (even the Savior, Himself) has resulted in changing the minds of others to bring about a desired effect. Jonah warned of the destruction of Ninevah, but the destruction was averted by the repentance of the people. Jonah tried everything to avoid this warning, but eventually (by divine intervention) he gave in and gave the warning which was heeded.

Jesus, Himself, said that I and the Father work. That is not a small statement. They are not just sitting on some cloud waiting for man to get it together. They are ACTIVELY engaged in our salvation. The prayers of the saints are heard and acted upon. When it is all done and the statement is made to "let those who are unjust be unjust still, ..." the censor which holds the incense (which rises to God and is a sween smell in His nostrils) is cast down indicating that His mediation for fallen man is over. His "work" is done. The example that He was on earth, is for us who travel the same road that He did and "carry their cross"--just by claiming His righteousness in place of their shortcomings. Christ was the "first fruit" and we are the "first fruits" of His suffering and sacrifice. In a very real sense, the word Tamid which is used for the word sacrifice means it is a continual sacrifice. In other words, that sacrifice (once and for all) reaches all the way into the past to give the sacrifice of animals legitimacy to cover the sin of the people in the Old Testament Sanctuary service--all the way to the end of time in the future. Remember, Paul was and EXPERT on the Law and shows how Christ fulfilled every single demand of the Law--right down to minute detail.

Our suffering, of course, is not even close to Christ's. He was ONE with the Father, and His suffering had nothing to do with physical pain. His suffering was being separated from God with the weight of the sin of the world upon Him. Before He died, His soul was satisfied as He looked at His sacrifice and saw that it was enough. Peter would not even let himself be crucified in the same way and was hung upside down instead--not willing to be equated with the infinite sacrifice of Christ. Even in the very last moments of this earth's history, the angels desire to come to our aid, but it is written that we must "drink of the cup, and be baptised with the baptism." This is the final finishing work IN US. We cannot do this by ourselves. We need help. Christ and the Father work--right to the very end of time.
 Quoting: Zerubbabel


yeah, I know, I'm the heretic here, so, I'm still gonna bother this thread for a well intentioned disagreement not intended to derail anything, but to broaden perception.
I have nothing but respect for those that step down from their privilege to suffer with the rest of us down here, and without a doubt for a deity that could be otherwise occupied being comfortably praised for eternity but there is a maybe teeny difference, for jesus would always know even in human incarnation where he was from and where he was going back to.
None of us here can say the same thing with the same kind of certainty outside of faith in the promises of others alive or dead and you all know that those questions crop up from time to time, if youre honest about it.
I'll suggest that all pain is personal, and not directly comparable or infinitely measurable or comparable to anyone elses, and the pain of separation from even the concept of god is not unique to the son of god, but applicable to gods creations.
In addition, no pain is as severe and perceptually painful to the human spirit when the limits, purpose or consequences of the pain are unknown and potentially indefinate.
I'm not exactly sure why someones pain needs quantification to anyone elses, or why there is anything inherently disrespectful or arrogant in copying ones teacher for any respectful reason as the student sees fit.
Or, to put it simply, because paul had certain issues regarding the possible motivations for his choices, doesnt mean that it's identical or applicable as a lesson to anyone elses, at least with any authority.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/09/2012 11:01 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
It seems to conflict with the teaching that Christ suffered once for all? It also implies another possible purpose or reason for human suffering?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


If we suffer because of our beliefs in Jesus Christ then we should rejoice. That is what it is talking about.

here are different translation of the verse and at the bottom more commentary.

[link to bible.cc]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1550123


Thank you
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/09/2012 11:13 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
Maybe the work of Jesus' and his suffering on the cross was to obtain the salvation of everyone. That is his work. SALVATION.

Does his work, life and suffering also REPAIR everything too?

Maybe that's what we are supposed to do. Maybe God wants humankind to take responsibility for that? Because nothing is really fixed, he left that part up to us, right?

If I felt a calling to start a ministry of prayer of reparation for the world, how would that be looked at by other Christians, as a good thing? Contrary to scriptures? Unnecessary? What do you think?
Xthys
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12/09/2012 11:18 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
[link to www.blueletterbible.org]

The sufferings Paul is experiencing may well be different from those bodily sufferings of Christ; however, just as "Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it", so Paul is willing to endure physical pain and suffering for the "body" of Christ, the church/assembly. The sufferings that Christ did not experience are now being inflicted on Paul and he accepts these willingly; both he and his Lord suffered for the same ultimate purpose, sacrificing their own well-being for a higher cause.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/09/2012 11:19 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
The MAINLINE understanding of Christ's sacrifice is that it was ALL finished at the cross. None of us need suffer nor die to satisfy the claims of the Law (of which Paul was an EXPERT, hand picked by the scholars of the day). However, Christ said that He must leave so that the Comforter may come (to finish a work IN THEM) and so that He could return and "prepare the Mansions" in heaven.

Christ is the Mediator between the Father and man. That is not just a "passive" undertaking. Each and EVERY person who has ever lived must have his "record" examined in the Heavenly court. Every prophecy in the Scriptures is conditional upon the acts of man. Many a prophet has stated "conditions" for their fulfillment and the activity of angels (even the Savior, Himself) has resulted in changing the minds of others to bring about a desired effect. Jonah warned of the destruction of Ninevah, but the destruction was averted by the repentance of the people. Jonah tried everything to avoid this warning, but eventually (by divine intervention) he gave in and gave the warning which was heeded.

Jesus, Himself, said that I and the Father work. That is not a small statement. They are not just sitting on some cloud waiting for man to get it together. They are ACTIVELY engaged in our salvation. The prayers of the saints are heard and acted upon. When it is all done and the statement is made to "let those who are unjust be unjust still, ..." the censor which holds the incense (which rises to God and is a sween smell in His nostrils) is cast down indicating that His mediation for fallen man is over. His "work" is done. The example that He was on earth, is for us who travel the same road that He did and "carry their cross"--just by claiming His righteousness in place of their shortcomings. Christ was the "first fruit" and we are the "first fruits" of His suffering and sacrifice. In a very real sense, the word Tamid which is used for the word sacrifice means it is a continual sacrifice. In other words, that sacrifice (once and for all) reaches all the way into the past to give the sacrifice of animals legitimacy to cover the sin of the people in the Old Testament Sanctuary service--all the way to the end of time in the future. Remember, Paul was and EXPERT on the Law and shows how Christ fulfilled every single demand of the Law--right down to minute detail.

Our suffering, of course, is not even close to Christ's. He was ONE with the Father, and His suffering had nothing to do with physical pain. His suffering was being separated from God with the weight of the sin of the world upon Him. Before He died, His soul was satisfied as He looked at His sacrifice and saw that it was enough. Peter would not even let himself be crucified in the same way and was hung upside down instead--not willing to be equated with the infinite sacrifice of Christ. Even in the very last moments of this earth's history, the angels desire to come to our aid, but it is written that we must "drink of the cup, and be baptised with the baptism." This is the final finishing work IN US. We cannot do this by ourselves. We need help. Christ and the Father work--right to the very end of time.
 Quoting: Zerubbabel


yeah, I know, I'm the heretic here, so, I'm still gonna bother this thread for a well intentioned disagreement not intended to derail anything, but to broaden perception.
I have nothing but respect for those that step down from their privilege to suffer with the rest of us down here, and without a doubt for a deity that could be otherwise occupied being comfortably praised for eternity but there is a maybe teeny difference, for jesus would always know even in human incarnation where he was from and where he was going back to.
None of us here can say the same thing with the same kind of certainty outside of faith in the promises of others alive or dead and you all know that those questions crop up from time to time, if youre honest about it.
I'll suggest that all pain is personal, and not directly comparable or infinitely measurable or comparable to anyone elses, and the pain of separation from even the concept of god is not unique to the son of god, but applicable to gods creations.
In addition, no pain is as severe and perceptually painful to the human spirit when the limits, purpose or consequences of the pain are unknown and potentially indefinate.
I'm not exactly sure why someones pain needs quantification to anyone elses, or why there is anything inherently disrespectful or arrogant in copying ones teacher for any respectful reason as the student sees fit.
Or, to put it simply, because paul had certain issues regarding the possible motivations for his choices, doesnt mean that it's identical or applicable as a lesson to anyone elses, at least with any authority.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25390958


Far be it from me to label anyone a heretic, I welcome all opinions/interpretations said with heartfelt sincerity with the intention of broadening perspectives or for finding the truth. Thank you for your input.
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2012 11:23 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
I'm wondering if we are suffering on behalf of others to make up for th sins of others. And if this is so, can we also repair for others sins through our own prayers and sufferings. I feel a very strong calling to repair for the past human history through prayer. I feel that is my work I am being called to at this time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Is there any other scripture that would support this calling I feel? Why would I feel this calling? Is possible to repair for the sins of others on their behalf?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


This would 'seem' to tie into the prayers of intercessions for others via the power and manifestation of the gift from the Holy Spirit.

As of "past human history"? Or just the past histories of each person's own history at this time in which they are now living and alive?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27972246


Everything. I feel that we, not just myself but others too might have a special calling to repair for the past, for human history for individuals, countries, events everything so that all will be fulfilled as God had originally intended through prayer. Is there a scriptural basis for this calling I feel?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Is there a scriptural basis for this calling I feel?

Keep on searching.
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2012 11:24 PM
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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
see also

Romans 5:3 We can rejoice, too, when we run into problems and trials, for we know that they help us develop endurance.

1 peter 4:13 But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.


1 corinthians 12:25-27 explains why you should be happy even while in pain.
"Now you are the body of Christ."
telling it straight

User ID: 1461054
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12/09/2012 11:26 PM

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Re: Colosssians 1:24?
The Amplified version of the bible gives you a clearer picture of the passage--a fuller look into the Greek words and their meaning.


24 [Even] now I rejoice in the midst of my sufferings on your behalf. And in my own person I am making up whatever is still lacking and remains to be completed [[v]on our part] of Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of His body, which is the church.


It isn't that Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf was lacking, it's that WE must do our part and endure suffering for the advancement and benefit of the Body, the church.

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