Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 2,512 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 1,787,189
Pageviews Today: 2,365,473Threads Today: 532Posts Today: 10,727
05:26 PM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Colosssians 1:24?

 
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1034800
United States
12/09/2012 11:27 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Colosssians 1:24?
...


Is there any other scripture that would support this calling I feel? Why would I feel this calling? Is possible to repair for the sins of others on their behalf?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


This would 'seem' to tie into the prayers of intercessions for others via the power and manifestation of the gift from the Holy Spirit.

As of "past human history"? Or just the past histories of each person's own history at this time in which they are now living and alive?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27972246


Everything. I feel that we, not just myself but others too might have a special calling to repair for the past, for human history for individuals, countries, events everything so that all will be fulfilled as God had originally intended through prayer. Is there a scriptural basis for this calling I feel?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Is there a scriptural basis for this calling I feel?

Keep on searching.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27972246


Do you know something I don't know? If so, please share it.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1034800
United States
12/09/2012 11:29 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Colosssians 1:24?
The Amplified version of the bible gives you a clearer picture of the passage--a fuller look into the Greek words and their meaning.


24 [Even] now I rejoice in the midst of my sufferings on your behalf. And in my own person I am making up whatever is still lacking and remains to be completed [[v]on our part] of Christís afflictions, for the sake of His body, which is the church.


It isn't that Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf was lacking, it's that WE must do our part and endure suffering for the advancement and benefit of the Body, the church.
 Quoting: telling it straight


remains to be completed... hmmmm
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1034800
United States
12/09/2012 11:33 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Colosssians 1:24?
The Amplified version of the bible gives you a clearer picture of the passage--a fuller look into the Greek words and their meaning.


24 [Even] now I rejoice in the midst of my sufferings on your behalf. And in my own person I am making up whatever is still lacking and remains to be completed [[v]on our part] of Christís afflictions, for the sake of His body, which is the church.


It isn't that Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf was lacking, it's that WE must do our part and endure suffering for the advancement and benefit of the Body, the church.
 Quoting: telling it straight


remains to be completed... hmmmm
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


With this version, it seems to be saying... Jesus did his part and it was complete in him; but now we need to do our part. So we are participants in Christ's purpose, and in order to fulfill it, we still need to do our part which includes suffering.

I still wonder if we can repair for other's mistakes. I don't see why not... but I'm wondering what others think.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22054163
United States
12/09/2012 11:51 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Colosssians 1:24?
1 Peter 3:12
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

There is a difference between the body of Christ and the world we are to remain separate from.

And there is the one that makes all attempts to break down that partitioning wall.....and allow all manners of evil and darkness to enter the kingdom of the beloved son.

But the gate of hell shall not pervail against it.



[link to bible-truth.org]
telling it straight

User ID: 1461054
United States
12/09/2012 11:53 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Colosssians 1:24?
The Amplified version of the bible gives you a clearer picture of the passage--a fuller look into the Greek words and their meaning.


24 [Even] now I rejoice in the midst of my sufferings on your behalf. And in my own person I am making up whatever is still lacking and remains to be completed [[v]on our part] of Christís afflictions, for the sake of His body, which is the church.


It isn't that Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf was lacking, it's that WE must do our part and endure suffering for the advancement and benefit of the Body, the church.
 Quoting: telling it straight


remains to be completed... hmmmm
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Yes, remains to be completed within himself as it does for all of us.

He's referring to the ongoing process of sanctification process does in all of us who belong to Jesus. You really need to read the preceding passages and not isolate one phrase or you'll miss the context. You will see that Paul is very clear in laying out the supremacy of Jesus, the deity of Jesus (GOD Himself in human form) and the purpose of Jesus for us individually and the Church corporately.

Let's look at the whole passage.

Colossians 1
Amplified Bible (AMP)

1 Paul, an apostle (special messenger) of Christ Jesus (the Messiah), by the will of God, and Timothy [our] brother,

2 To the saints (the consecrated people of God) and [a]believing and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colossae: Grace (spiritual favor and blessing) to you and [heart] peace from God our Father.

3 We continually give thanks to God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah), as we are praying for you,

4 For we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus [[c]the leaning of your entire human personality on Him in absolute trust and confidence in His power, wisdom, and goodness] and of the love which you [have and show] for all the saints (Godís consecrated ones),

5 Because of the hope [of experiencing what is] laid up ([d]reserved and waiting) for you in heaven. Of this [hope] you heard in the past in the message of the truth of the Gospel,

6 Which has come to you. Indeed, in the whole world [that Gospel] is bearing fruit and still is growing [e][by its own inherent power], even as it has done among yourselves ever since the day you first heard and came to know and understand the grace of God in truth. [You came to know the grace or undeserved favor of God in reality, deeply and clearly and thoroughly, becoming accurately and intimately acquainted with it.]

7 You so learned it from Epaphras, our beloved fellow servant. He is a faithful minister of Christ in our stead and as our representative and [f]yours.
8 Also he has informed us of your love in the [Holy] Spirit.

9 For this reason we also, from the day we heard of it, have not ceased to pray and make [[g]special] request for you, [asking] that you may be filled with the [h]full (deep and clear) knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom [in comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God] and in understanding and discernment of spiritual thingsó

10 That you may walk (live and conduct yourselves) in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to Him and [j]desiring to please Him in all things, bearing fruit in every good work and steadily growing and increasing in and by the knowledge of God [with fuller, deeper, and clearer insight, [k]acquaintance, and recognition].

11 [We pray] that you may be invigorated and strengthened with all power according to the might of His glory, [to exercise] every kind of endurance and patience (perseverance and forbearance) with joy,

12 Giving thanks to the Father, Who has qualified and made us fit to share the [l]portion which is the inheritance of the saints (Godís holy people) in the Light.

13 [The Father] has delivered and [m]drawn us to Himself out of the control and the dominion of darkness and has transferred us into the kingdom of the Son [n]of His love,

14 In Whom we have our redemption through His blood, [which means] the forgiveness of our sins.

15 [Now] He is the [o]exact likeness of the unseen God [the visible representation of the invisible]; He is the Firstborn of all creation.

16 For it was in Him that all things were created, in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen, whether thrones, dominions, rulers, or authorities; all things were created and exist through Him [by His service, intervention] and in and for Him.

17 And He Himself existed before all things, and in Him all things consist (cohere, are held together).

18 He also is the Head of [His] body, the church; seeing He is the Beginning, the Firstborn from among the dead, so that He alone in everything and in every respect might occupy the chief place [stand first and be preeminent].
19 For it has pleased [the Father] that all the divine fullness (the sum total of the divine perfection, powers, and attributes) should dwell in Him [p]permanently.

20 And God purposed that through ([q]by the service, the intervention of) Him [the Son] all things should be completely reconciled [r]back to Himself, whether on earth or in heaven, as through Him, [the Father] made peace by means of the blood of His cross.

21 And although you at one time were estranged and alienated from Him and were of hostile attitude of mind in your wicked activities,

22 Yet now has [Christ, the Messiah] reconciled [you to God] in the body of His flesh through death, in order to present you holy and faultless and irreproachable in His [the Fatherís] presence.

23 [And this He will do] provided that you continue to [s]stay with and in the faith [in Christ], well-grounded and settled and steadfast, not shifting or moving away from the hope [which rests on and is inspired by] the glad tidings (the Gospel), which you heard and which has been preached [t][as being designed for and offered without restrictions] to every person under heaven, and of which [Gospel] I, Paul, became a minister.

24 [Even] now I rejoice in the midst of my sufferings on your behalf. And in my own person I am making up whatever is still lacking and remains to be completed [[v]on our part] of Christís afflictions, for the sake of His body, which is the church.

25 In it I became a minister in accordance with the divine [w]stewardship which was entrusted to me for you [as its object and for your benefit], to make the Word of God fully known [among you]ó

26 The mystery of which was hidden for ages and generations [[x]from angels and men], but is now revealed to His holy people (the saints),

27 To whom God was pleased to make known how great for the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ within and among you, the Hope of [realizing the] glory.

28 Him we preach and proclaim, warning and admonishing everyone and instructing everyone in all wisdom ([y]comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God), that we may present every person mature (full-grown, fully initiated, complete, and perfect) in Christ (the Anointed One).


29 For this I labor [[z]unto weariness], striving with all the [aa]superhuman energy which He so mightily enkindles and works within me.
Footnotes:
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 16711658
United States
12/10/2012 12:02 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Colosssians 1:24?
The Amplified version of the bible gives you a clearer picture of the passage--a fuller look into the Greek words and their meaning.


24 [Even] now I rejoice in the midst of my sufferings on your behalf. And in my own person I am making up whatever is still lacking and remains to be completed [[v]on our part] of Christís afflictions, for the sake of His body, which is the church.


It isn't that Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf was lacking, it's that WE must do our part and endure suffering for the advancement and benefit of the Body, the church.
 Quoting: telling it straight


remains to be completed... hmmmm
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


With this version, it seems to be saying... Jesus did his part and it was complete in him; but now we need to do our part. So we are participants in Christ's purpose, and in order to fulfill it, we still need to do our part which includes suffering.

I still wonder if we can repair for other's mistakes. I don't see why not... but I'm wondering what others think.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Another perspective.

To repair for our mistakes / sins. We ask sincerely for forgiveness, and repent of our sins.

Jesus's death, was an atonement for our sin.

But to receive this, we must ask, hence asking for forgiveness of our sins, in his name.

So, since we ourselves, can't wash away the sins of others.

Therefore, to repair their sins, the sinner, would need to ask God themselves, for forgiveness.

We can't do this for them, but, we can lead them to Christ, and teach them how to do this themselves.

So, this now goes back to the great commission, in which Jesus told us to preach the gospel to others.

By doing this, this will lead them to Christ. And then, they can ask for forgiveness of their sins.

So if you share the gospel, or during your intercessory prayer, you may want to pray that the non-believers, will come to Christ, so they can ask for forgiveness of their own sins, since we can't do this for them.

Regarding the sins / mistakes of the past, generations. What's been done is done. Some believe in soul sleep, or, that the dead, will either be in heaven or hell. So their fate is sealed, and one can no longer do intercessory prayers for them, at this point.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1034800
United States
12/10/2012 12:04 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Colosssians 1:24?
"20 And God purposed that through ([q]by the service, the intervention of) Him [the Son] all things should be completely reconciled [r]back to Himself, whether on earth or in heaven, as through Him, [the Father] made peace by means of the blood of His cross."
...

"24 [Even] now I rejoice in the midst of my sufferings on your behalf. And in my own person I am making up whatever is still lacking and remains to be completed [[v]on our part] of Christís afflictions, for the sake of His body, which is the church."


I don't know, still a little confused about it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25390958
United States
12/10/2012 12:10 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Colosssians 1:24?
The MAINLINE understanding of Christ's sacrifice is that it was ALL finished at the cross. None of us need suffer nor die to satisfy the claims of the Law (of which Paul was an EXPERT, hand picked by the scholars of the day). However, Christ said that He must leave so that the Comforter may come (to finish a work IN THEM) and so that He could return and "prepare the Mansions" in heaven.

Christ is the Mediator between the Father and man. That is not just a "passive" undertaking. Each and EVERY person who has ever lived must have his "record" examined in the Heavenly court. Every prophecy in the Scriptures is conditional upon the acts of man. Many a prophet has stated "conditions" for their fulfillment and the activity of angels (even the Savior, Himself) has resulted in changing the minds of others to bring about a desired effect. Jonah warned of the destruction of Ninevah, but the destruction was averted by the repentance of the people. Jonah tried everything to avoid this warning, but eventually (by divine intervention) he gave in and gave the warning which was heeded.

Jesus, Himself, said that I and the Father work. That is not a small statement. They are not just sitting on some cloud waiting for man to get it together. They are ACTIVELY engaged in our salvation. The prayers of the saints are heard and acted upon. When it is all done and the statement is made to "let those who are unjust be unjust still, ..." the censor which holds the incense (which rises to God and is a sween smell in His nostrils) is cast down indicating that His mediation for fallen man is over. His "work" is done. The example that He was on earth, is for us who travel the same road that He did and "carry their cross"--just by claiming His righteousness in place of their shortcomings. Christ was the "first fruit" and we are the "first fruits" of His suffering and sacrifice. In a very real sense, the word Tamid which is used for the word sacrifice means it is a continual sacrifice. In other words, that sacrifice (once and for all) reaches all the way into the past to give the sacrifice of animals legitimacy to cover the sin of the people in the Old Testament Sanctuary service--all the way to the end of time in the future. Remember, Paul was and EXPERT on the Law and shows how Christ fulfilled every single demand of the Law--right down to minute detail.

Our suffering, of course, is not even close to Christ's. He was ONE with the Father, and His suffering had nothing to do with physical pain. His suffering was being separated from God with the weight of the sin of the world upon Him. Before He died, His soul was satisfied as He looked at His sacrifice and saw that it was enough. Peter would not even let himself be crucified in the same way and was hung upside down instead--not willing to be equated with the infinite sacrifice of Christ. Even in the very last moments of this earth's history, the angels desire to come to our aid, but it is written that we must "drink of the cup, and be baptised with the baptism." This is the final finishing work IN US. We cannot do this by ourselves. We need help. Christ and the Father work--right to the very end of time.
 Quoting: Zerubbabel


yeah, I know, I'm the heretic here, so, I'm still gonna bother this thread for a well intentioned disagreement not intended to derail anything, but to broaden perception.
I have nothing but respect for those that step down from their privilege to suffer with the rest of us down here, and without a doubt for a deity that could be otherwise occupied being comfortably praised for eternity but there is a maybe teeny difference, for jesus would always know even in human incarnation where he was from and where he was going back to.
None of us here can say the same thing with the same kind of certainty outside of faith in the promises of others alive or dead and you all know that those questions crop up from time to time, if youre honest about it.
I'll suggest that all pain is personal, and not directly comparable or infinitely measurable or comparable to anyone elses, and the pain of separation from even the concept of god is not unique to the son of god, but applicable to gods creations.
In addition, no pain is as severe and perceptually painful to the human spirit when the limits, purpose or consequences of the pain are unknown and potentially indefinate.
I'm not exactly sure why someones pain needs quantification to anyone elses, or why there is anything inherently disrespectful or arrogant in copying ones teacher for any respectful reason as the student sees fit.
Or, to put it simply, because paul had certain issues regarding the possible motivations for his choices, doesnt mean that it's identical or applicable as a lesson to anyone elses, at least with any authority.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25390958


Far be it from me to label anyone a heretic, I welcome all opinions/interpretations said with heartfelt sincerity with the intention of broadening perspectives or for finding the truth. Thank you for your input.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


beware if you can the desire for excessive ministrations to rote and ritual, grandious symbolism and ceremony that are not sprung from your own sincerity and humility in the face of perfection as your guide.
recall the priests of the temple which drew the disgust from jesus for they were punctilious with ritual and outward appearance, but inside were deceitful and cynical and only performed for their purposes.
The possible take away is that if jesus knew their heart, and was disgusted, does he not also know your heart and it's desire to reunite with the father of all things with your own gifts?
We cant be as jesus was exactly, as he did not come for the same purpose as we are here for.
I dont think we were placed here under these conditions to simply ignore our surroundings and disregard our earthly lives for a ritual suicide in a purely spiritual plane.
At best I can suggest that we must in our most sincere and honest hearts reconcile our lives here as best we can following his precepts for the reasons set fourth.
Best regards.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 1034800
United States
12/10/2012 12:17 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Colosssians 1:24?
The Amplified version of the bible gives you a clearer picture of the passage--a fuller look into the Greek words and their meaning.


24 [Even] now I rejoice in the midst of my sufferings on your behalf. And in my own person I am making up whatever is still lacking and remains to be completed [[v]on our part] of Christís afflictions, for the sake of His body, which is the church.


It isn't that Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf was lacking, it's that WE must do our part and endure suffering for the advancement and benefit of the Body, the church.
 Quoting: telling it straight


remains to be completed... hmmmm
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


With this version, it seems to be saying... Jesus did his part and it was complete in him; but now we need to do our part. So we are participants in Christ's purpose, and in order to fulfill it, we still need to do our part which includes suffering.

I still wonder if we can repair for other's mistakes. I don't see why not... but I'm wondering what others think.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Another perspective.

To repair for our mistakes / sins. We ask sincerely for forgiveness, and repent of our sins.

Jesus's death, was an atonement for our sin.

But to receive this, we must ask, hence asking for forgiveness of our sins, in his name.

So, since we ourselves, can't wash away the sins of others.

Therefore, to repair their sins, the sinner, would need to ask God themselves, for forgiveness.

We can't do this for them, but, we can lead them to Christ, and teach them how to do this themselves.

So, this now goes back to the great commission, in which Jesus told us to preach the gospel to others.

By doing this, this will lead them to Christ. And then, they can ask for forgiveness of their sins.

So if you share the gospel, or during your intercessory prayer, you may want to pray that the non-believers, will come to Christ, so they can ask for forgiveness of their own sins, since we can't do this for them.

Regarding the sins / mistakes of the past, generations. What's been done is done. Some believe in soul sleep, or, that the dead, will either be in heaven or hell. So their fate is sealed, and one can no longer do intercessory prayers for them, at this point.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16711658


Those who are in hell or don't care to repair for their own sins will leave their path of destruction on earth with no one else to repair for it. But they still have an effect on others spiritually. Maybe not for their sake, but for the sake of others? How are all things to be complete in Christ if these things are not repaired for? What if others choose to do the reparation? Would that be wrong? Or is it unnecessary? I don't know, I really feel strongly that things need to be repaired for spiritually. Aren't some events and disasters as a consequence of our failures of the past? What if we spiritually made amends, maybe some of these things would be lessened.
telling it straight

User ID: 1461054
United States
12/10/2012 12:17 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Colosssians 1:24?
"20 And God purposed that through ([q]by the service, the intervention of) Him [the Son] all things should be completely reconciled [r]back to Himself, whether on earth or in heaven, as through Him, [the Father] made peace by means of the blood of His cross."
...

"24 [Even] now I rejoice in the midst of my sufferings on your behalf. And in my own person I am making up whatever is still lacking and remains to be completed [[v]on our part] of Christís afflictions, for the sake of His body, which is the church."


I don't know, still a little confused about it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1034800


Please read the entire book of Colossians and refrain from taking sooo narrow a view of that passage. It is NOT saying WE have to help Jesus because he was lacking something or He didn't suffer enough. Read the verses above and below and you'll get the context. Scripture interprets scripture. And scripture's VERY CLEAR that we will suffer persecutions and trials for the advancement of the Church. It seems like you're getting too locked into a very narrow view of this verse and missing the point Paul's making in that chapter. No verse of scripture is meant to stand independently of the context surrounding it as you are doing here.

News