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True Atheism is impossible.

 
PigsInSpace (OP)

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12/11/2012 07:28 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
First off, there shouldn't even be a word, atheist. You are the people who believe that some invisible sky daddy is up there loving you. If you weren't such egomaniacs, there wouldn't be such a thing as Christianity. You don't want to die and not exist so you pretend that some invisible man lives in the sky (Santa Claus) and he loves you. You pretend you will get some big reward when you die, you will live forever with all your friends and relatives and pets in some big palace. WHY??? Oh, because you BELIEVE. That's it.

You think that your belief is such a grand thing but what you don't realize is that you only BELIEVE because you are a weak, childlike individual who can't accept your own mortality. If you would only grow up, you would see how foolish it is to believe some invisible man in the sky loves you and can read your thoughts and gives a shit what you do. You are a little nothing. Grow up and realize it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


"Sky Daddy" is a pretty funny term, nice one. Also.. I read your definition or impression of what you think a believer is/believes in, and I can assure you that your opinion is limited to certain people. Not everyone believes because they are afraid.

I believe because I feel. I was a very ardent non believer but I have since found faith and belief in something. To me GOD is not a sky daddy. Think of god as the deity whom sacrificed themselves in order for you to incarnate. We can only come from one thing. That thing divides infinitely based on the principles, but not limited to, creativity, love, experience.. what we have is a perpetual eternal machine that sustains itself through its own growth. The universe is ever expanding because god is ever learning. We are the tools of that god, experiencing life, creating and sculpting realities. There is something magical about this gift that we have to procreate, create, learn, and teach. Knowledge is the cure for atheism. The more you learn, the more you understand the complexity/simplicity of daily experiences and things, you can only reach one conclusion, and that is an omnipotent, self less, unselfish, creation, and that creation is god.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


You may believe in whatever you wish. That is your own choice, of course. But please allow non-believers to believe in nothing, if they choose. I think you are clinging to this idea of "god", which ever God that should happen to be, because you WANT a God to exist. I could be wrong, but I think it is a probable explanation of why most people believe in God. They NEED to have this belief, whether or not it is real.

The unreality of your world is obvious to me. You see this beauty of creation all around you and you think "GOD." But what about children who are suffering from cancer? What about children who are abused? What about animals that are abused and die? Children and animals are innocent. Yet "GOD" allows this to happen. Where is God is a good question? THis world operates EXACTLY as if no God exists and chances are very good that one doesn't.

I am not talking only about Christians clinging to some God. This could apply to Mormons, Jehovah's Witness or Scientologists, etc. People believe in Gods because it gives them some type of hope. But please be considerate of the fact that some people don't have the need to have faith in that sort of thing. I am perfectly happy without faith or belief in any type of God. The fact that I will die and cease to exist doesn't really bother me. I am happy with the life I have. People always have to have more, more, more, that is one reason why they cling to the hope of some afterlife. The fact is that this is all there is...just today.

I am sorry to say that I doubt very much that anyone lives forever. I believe in evolution which is a cure for Christianity and all religion. If you study evolution in college, you will see that it is a very complex subject that requires a lot of study. The more YOU learn, the more you might understand that this is how human life came to be.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I have a very strong education. I have been educated by 33rd degree masons. Good masons. Not the greedy corporate slime balls. In any case, there are volumes upon volumes of books discussing the origins of religion and let me tell you that your perception is rooted in lies and ignorance. You need to study. You need to trance the roots of all religions, and understand where their symbolism comes from. Religion, practiced with love and truthful intent is a beautiful thing. Today's religions are corrupted, duh. Doesn't take a genius to figure it out, however, saying that religion itself is flawed is a mistake. Humans are learning and growing up. Just because human beings don't know how to use a certain tool, it does not mean that this tool is bad. I can take a bread knife and kill you with it. Does that make bread knives bad? No ofcourse not, so how can you blame religion for the folly of your fellow man?

Children dying form cancer has nothing to do with god. God cannot intervene because is omnipotent and we have free will, therefore, since we have free will, we can kill each other without consequence from god. That is the point of an omnipotent god. Freedom. Furthermore, god did not give those children cancer, we gave those children cancer by abusing nature and abusing the environment, and by filling the atmosphere and our food with poisons. God had nothing to do with that so I really don't know why you would play that sob story tune about cancer as a point in your argument. It's very weak. VERY weak.
Anonymous Coward
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12/11/2012 07:30 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
God cannot intervene
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


another do
PigsInSpace (OP)

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12/11/2012 07:31 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
When I encounter someone who claims they are Atheist, it makes me wonder about what Atheism truly is.

The central thesis proposed by Atheism is that god does not exist, however, what most people don't realize is that "GOD" is central and key to the belief. God is the ground upon which Atheism is built on, however, the only catch is, that Atheists denounce god... but how can they truly be Atheist if god is central to their thesis? Meaning.. if there was no god, then Atheism would not be possible as a concept.

You cannot use something you do not believe in as a central point in your thesis, correct? Atheism seems like a joke that is being played on the ignorant. A true atheist would never call themselves an Atheist, because Atheism immediately locks you in to "god" or the lack of "god".. but God is still very much part of the belief structure.

Make sense?
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


no.
utter nonsense.

Replace the word god with pink unicorns and apply it to yourself.

By your shitty logic nobody can claim they don't believe in pink unicorns.

Very poor work, you embarrass yourself and give all of us fair warning to ignore anything you have to say in the future.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29572855


Yes, but there is no ideology that deals with pink unicorns. You are using a hypothetical situation to counter my argument. In this case, that cannot work since there are hundreds of thousands of people who claim they are Atheists.. and zero people who claim they believe in pink unicorns.

So in fact, it is your logic that is flawed. Nice try though!
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


You must be using some kind of special definition of the word logic that doesn't apply to the rest of us. He was making fun of you but to put his critique in more abstract terms.

By your logic about atheists and God, it would be impossible to truly disbelieve anything because once you've defined the thing you supposedly disbelieve, you're relying on that definition to make your statement.

The fact that there's an "ideology" around the thing is irrelevant. Your logic is fallacious. It's easier to explain why in symbolic logic but that would take a long time and let's be honest, you don't really want a logical argument about this, you want to be able to hold onto your a priori belief in the supernatural without feeling stupid in the modern world. I sympathize.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27249373


This makes zero sense. You cannot use a hypothetical abstraction to make a point in this conversation. How can you possibly make a point about pink unicorns where no religion or ideology regarding pink unicorns exist? You can't just pull shit out of a hat and build your logic on it. There are ideologies that deal with god however, and people who believe in them, therefore, I can use them in my logic. Period.
PigsInSpace (OP)

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12/11/2012 07:32 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
Whatever - just find some way to accept them as-is. It would be borderline Christlike.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578


I have no problem with Atheists at all, I just think its amusing/ironic how the central point of their argument is god, which totally negates the entire belief structure. It's almost as if gods omnipotence is proven even through disbelief, since you are investing belief in god, albeit from the "I do not believe" stance.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


Have you sacrificed a goat to Zeus today? or prayed 5 times to Mecca? washed a sacred cow for Vishnu? Your arguement is silly unless you believe in every God from every recognised Religion.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper


I believe in one god, the creator, the infinitely divided, ever growing, ever learning consciousness. I do not identify myself with any religion today, but I respect and have my own religion, one that is true and loving and includes everyone. My religion has no enemies. In my religion we are all eternal.
PigsInSpace (OP)

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12/11/2012 07:32 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
Give me 1 fact that god exists :?
I Can Give you 1 fact that god doesn't exist !
 Quoting: BloodyT3CH


The Fibonacci sequence. Your turn.
Anonymous Coward
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12/11/2012 07:35 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
My religion has no enemies.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


That's probably wise, because if you were christian you'd have to befriend them ;)
Dr Einstein

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12/11/2012 07:46 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
only very stupid people and children believe in God now.
 Quoting: Dr Einstein


Name calling does not negate the existence of God, neither does you unbelief.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29636139

Dr Einstein's statement my be a little abrupt in it's delivery - but nevertheless, there IS a correlation between low intelligence, and religious belief.
And conversely, between higher intelligence, and lack of religious belief.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Karlos


You are mistaken. You have not studied enough. Have you ever looked at the origins of religion, or studied esoteric religion? The religion we have today are forgeries, dismal, and pathetic copies of something much more powerful and beautiful. Do not let the ruling class dictate what religion is to you. Religion was born of very high intelligence, and high intelligence was used to forge it and enslave mankind.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


oh gawd save us from this person who wants to re-invent religion...
PigsInSpace (OP)

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12/11/2012 07:50 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
...


Name calling does not negate the existence of God, neither does you unbelief.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29636139

Dr Einstein's statement my be a little abrupt in it's delivery - but nevertheless, there IS a correlation between low intelligence, and religious belief.
And conversely, between higher intelligence, and lack of religious belief.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Karlos


You are mistaken. You have not studied enough. Have you ever looked at the origins of religion, or studied esoteric religion? The religion we have today are forgeries, dismal, and pathetic copies of something much more powerful and beautiful. Do not let the ruling class dictate what religion is to you. Religion was born of very high intelligence, and high intelligence was used to forge it and enslave mankind.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


oh gawd save us from this person who wants to re-invent religion...
 Quoting: Dr Einstein


There is no need to re-invent anything. Do you know where religion originated from? What was it that inspired religion? or the "commune with god"?

If you can answer that, I may start taking you seriously, but I doubt you have the knowledge.
PigsInSpace (OP)

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12/11/2012 07:51 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
God cannot intervene
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


another do
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578


The only way in which god can intervene is through us. If we adhere to the natural laws of the universe, god will make him/herself known to us all.
Dr Einstein

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12/11/2012 08:10 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
oh gawd save us from this person who wants to re-invent religion...
 Quoting: Dr Einstein


There is no need to re-invent anything. Do you know where religion originated from? What was it that inspired religion? or the "commune with god"?

If you can answer that, I may start taking you seriously, but I doubt you have the knowledge.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


screw yer "god". There is no God. God doesn't exist.
Anonymous Coward
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12/11/2012 08:14 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
only very stupid people and children believe in God now.
 Quoting: Dr Einstein


Name calling does not negate the existence of God, neither does you unbelief.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29636139

Dr Einstein's statement my be a little abrupt in it's delivery - but nevertheless, there IS a correlation between low intelligence, and religious belief.
And conversely, between higher intelligence, and lack of religious belief.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Karlos


You are mistaken. You have not studied enough. Have you ever looked at the origins of religion, or studied esoteric religion? The religion we have today are forgeries, dismal, and pathetic copies of something much more powerful and beautiful. Do not let the ruling class dictate what religion is to you. Religion was born of very high intelligence, and high intelligence was used to forge it and enslave mankind.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


and who was created the wisest/most intelligent of all in the God's Whole Creation? How is the Prince of the Air and and of the world?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
When I encounter someone who claims they are Atheist, it makes me wonder about what Atheism truly is.

The central thesis proposed by Atheism is that god does not exist, however, what most people don't realize is that "GOD" is central and key to the belief. God is the ground upon which Atheism is built on, however, the only catch is, that Atheists denounce god... but how can they truly be Atheist if god is central to their thesis? Meaning.. if there was no god, then Atheism would not be possible as a concept.

You cannot use something you do not believe in as a central point in your thesis, correct? Atheism seems like a joke that is being played on the ignorant. A true atheist would never call themselves an Atheist, because Atheism immediately locks you in to "god" or the lack of "god".. but God is still very much part of the belief structure.

Make sense?
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


Wow, what an interesting perspective! Thank you!

clappa
Anonymous Coward
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12/11/2012 08:16 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
oh gawd save us from this person who wants to re-invent religion...
 Quoting: Dr Einstein


There is no need to re-invent anything. Do you know where religion originated from? What was it that inspired religion? or the "commune with god"?

If you can answer that, I may start taking you seriously, but I doubt you have the knowledge.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


screw yer "god". There is no God. God doesn't exist.
 Quoting: Dr Einstein


you were created the dumbest and the filthiest from the beginning of you. Period. Like with the case with God, it does not matter if you believe in the above or not.
PigsInSpace (OP)

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12/11/2012 08:27 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
oh gawd save us from this person who wants to re-invent religion...
 Quoting: Dr Einstein


There is no need to re-invent anything. Do you know where religion originated from? What was it that inspired religion? or the "commune with god"?

If you can answer that, I may start taking you seriously, but I doubt you have the knowledge.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


screw yer "god". There is no God. God doesn't exist.
 Quoting: Dr Einstein


My god waits for you. It's funny, at one point in my life, I shared your perspective, and I cured it with knowledge. There is more than enough proof for the existence of a supreme intelligence/love in this universe. You just have to want to seek it. This supreme intelligence will not condemn you or turn its back on you. You have as many life times as you wish to denounce it, sooner or later, you, just like everyone else.. will experience the power of it. It is your right to understand the mysteries of creation, you just have to be ready for them.
Dr Einstein

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12/11/2012 08:32 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
oh gawd save us from this person who wants to re-invent religion...
 Quoting: Dr Einstein


There is no need to re-invent anything. Do you know where religion originated from? What was it that inspired religion? or the "commune with god"?

If you can answer that, I may start taking you seriously, but I doubt you have the knowledge.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


screw yer "god". There is no God. God doesn't exist.
 Quoting: Dr Einstein


My god waits for you. It's funny, at one point in my life, I shared your perspective, and I cured it with knowledge. There is more than enough proof for the existence of a supreme intelligence/love in this universe. You just have to want to seek it. This supreme intelligence will not condemn you or turn its back on you. You have as many life times as you wish to denounce it, sooner or later, you, just like everyone else.. will experience the power of it. It is your right to understand the mysteries of creation, you just have to be ready for them.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


i use used to be one of you fools too. but i finally got
smart and shucked it all.
PigsInSpace (OP)

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12/11/2012 08:34 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
...


Name calling does not negate the existence of God, neither does you unbelief.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29636139

Dr Einstein's statement my be a little abrupt in it's delivery - but nevertheless, there IS a correlation between low intelligence, and religious belief.
And conversely, between higher intelligence, and lack of religious belief.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Karlos


You are mistaken. You have not studied enough. Have you ever looked at the origins of religion, or studied esoteric religion? The religion we have today are forgeries, dismal, and pathetic copies of something much more powerful and beautiful. Do not let the ruling class dictate what religion is to you. Religion was born of very high intelligence, and high intelligence was used to forge it and enslave mankind.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


and who was created the wisest/most intelligent of all in the God's Whole Creation? How is the Prince of the Air and and of the world?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29018328


Everyone is seeking a Messiah. I believe you must seek for the messiah in you. I can show you a way that will surely take you to that door. There is no wisest/most intelligent.. there are only people at different stages of learning.

The idea of the trinity is rampant throughout the ancient world, the triptych. Why 3? Well, let us deconstruct what it means to be a human being.

1. We are thinkers, thus we are intellectual.
2. We have bodies, thus we are physical.
3. We have gods, thus we are spiritual.

What else is there?

I cannot think of anything else. Psychology, even telepathy, etc etc.. all those fall into intellectualism, as all those powers are released through the pursuit of the intellectual mind. You must simply learn how to do those things.

Now, let me put this in perspective. I believe that people today represent 1 of the 3 elements of an enlightened being. Some people are book worms, but neglect their body and spirituality. Others embody their spirituality too deeply and forget to think, and on it goes. To become a prince, or a princess.. you must train all 3 aspects of your divinity, that which is your humanity. Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad, these were men who attained a high level of discipline in all 3 areas of their beings.

You want to heal people with your hands? Seek knowledge and you will learn how. Create a perfect alkaline state in your body, optimal energy fission will take place within you. Use your spirituality to direct this energy, and what else would it do but heal? Energy conceived, created, with the reverence for love, life, and the preservation of consciousness, is energy that heals all living things. Miracles are easy, learning how to is hard.
Anonymous Coward
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12/11/2012 08:39 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
When I encounter someone who claims they are Atheist, it makes me wonder about what Atheism truly is.

The central thesis proposed by Atheism is that god does not exist, however, what most people don't realize is that "GOD" is central and key to the belief. God is the ground upon which Atheism is built on, however, the only catch is, that Atheists denounce god... but how can they truly be Atheist if god is central to their thesis? Meaning.. if there was no god, then Atheism would not be possible as a concept.

You cannot use something you do not believe in as a central point in your thesis, correct? Atheism seems like a joke that is being played on the ignorant. A true atheist would never call themselves an Atheist, because Atheism immediately locks you in to "god" or the lack of "god".. but God is still very much part of the belief structure.

Make sense?
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


No. It doesn't.

God is an idea proposed by theists (believers). Atheists are merely those who have not been convinced by any of your arguments. They do not believe. They have no need for your mental crutch.

The fact that one knows a word does NOT mean one believes in the concept it represents!

Atheists do not denounce god. They just don't believe in it. Why should I denounce something I do not believe in?

I denounce RELIGION because of the evil it commits and the indoctrination it imposes, especially on children.
PigsInSpace (OP)

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12/11/2012 08:51 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
When I encounter someone who claims they are Atheist, it makes me wonder about what Atheism truly is.

The central thesis proposed by Atheism is that god does not exist, however, what most people don't realize is that "GOD" is central and key to the belief. God is the ground upon which Atheism is built on, however, the only catch is, that Atheists denounce god... but how can they truly be Atheist if god is central to their thesis? Meaning.. if there was no god, then Atheism would not be possible as a concept.

You cannot use something you do not believe in as a central point in your thesis, correct? Atheism seems like a joke that is being played on the ignorant. A true atheist would never call themselves an Atheist, because Atheism immediately locks you in to "god" or the lack of "god".. but God is still very much part of the belief structure.

Make sense?
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


No. It doesn't.

God is an idea proposed by theists (believers). Atheists are merely those who have not been convinced by any of your arguments. They do not believe. They have no need for your mental crutch.

The fact that one knows a word does NOT mean one believes in the concept it represents!

Atheists do not denounce god. They just don't believe in it. Why should I denounce something I do not believe in?

I denounce RELIGION because of the evil it commits and the indoctrination it imposes, especially on children.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29666193


The greatest trick the devil ever pulled on you, was to convince you that RELIGION as a concept is evil, and that it is not man who wields religion in an evil way. I could kill you with a butter knife, does that make a butter knife evil?

Religion is a tool wielded by corrupted individuals. They have forged it, leaving only the bare essentials, whispers of what once was, so that they would entice the human soul in it. There is deep truth hidden in the lies.. that is what draws millions of people to religion, familiarity.. You must cure your perception of religion with education, by learning the true and holy religion of the ancient era's. The truth that has been hidden from you purposefully.

The way religion is taught today is an ingenious corruption. For one, it repels people form the idea of religion, and 2. It fools the uneducated with false doctrine. WIN WIN.

The individuals whom have stolen your right to religion are smarter than you. You seek to blame a concept for the actions of man. How can anyone be accountable if ideas are killing people?

Think. Open your mind. You have not figured it all out.

Finally. The intention of my post was to point out the irony of atheism. You do not believe in god, but without god, you could not even have that non belief.
Anonymous Coward
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12/11/2012 10:07 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
an atheist doesn't need someone else to dictate morality to them. they know for themselves what is moral. when someone tells me what morality is and is not a big red flag pops up screaming this person has control issues and their moral compass is distorted. IE: religion.
Many religious peoples make vast assumptions about atheists without knowing anything about the person. Just because they need a guide book on how to live does not mean everyone else does as well. Morality comes from within. its when we stop listening to ourself we get into trouble and become manipulated for an-others agenda which is why so many religious people are belligerent hypocrites and cause more damage than good.
PigsInSpace (OP)

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12/11/2012 10:21 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
an atheist doesn't need someone else to dictate morality to them. they know for themselves what is moral. when someone tells me what morality is and is not a big red flag pops up screaming this person has control issues and their moral compass is distorted. IE: religion.
Many religious peoples make vast assumptions about atheists without knowing anything about the person. Just because they need a guide book on how to live does not mean everyone else does as well. Morality comes from within. its when we stop listening to ourself we get into trouble and become manipulated for an-others agenda which is why so many religious people are belligerent hypocrites and cause more damage than good.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29234021


Not exactly sure where we disagree because I do not. Morality does come from within, however.. everyone needs an education. Without an education, you will have no morality.
nomuse (not logged in)
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12/11/2012 10:24 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
I hate these bait-and-switch discussions.

The faither starts by asking why you don't believe. Almost immediately, he broadens it to a largely theoretical discussion in which he wants you to be making the argument that no faith of whatever kind has substance or value.

He is just biding his time, though. The moment you admit that, yes, it is not impossible for something resembling gods somewhat to exist somewhere, he says "So what about joining my church, then?"

No, sorry. Save your hypotheticals. You come in here dragging the hoary old carcass of mainstream American Christianity, you can damn well remain shackled to that rotting hulk of an ancient death-cult.
PigsInSpace (OP)

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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
I hate these bait-and-switch discussions.

The faither starts by asking why you don't believe. Almost immediately, he broadens it to a largely theoretical discussion in which he wants you to be making the argument that no faith of whatever kind has substance or value.

He is just biding his time, though. The moment you admit that, yes, it is not impossible for something resembling gods somewhat to exist somewhere, he says "So what about joining my church, then?"

No, sorry. Save your hypotheticals. You come in here dragging the hoary old carcass of mainstream American Christianity, you can damn well remain shackled to that rotting hulk of an ancient death-cult.
 Quoting: nomuse (not logged in) 2380183


Not sure who you are speaking to but it looks like you're projecting.
Anonymous Coward
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12/11/2012 11:29 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
an atheist doesn't need someone else to dictate morality to them. they know for themselves what is moral. when someone tells me what morality is and is not a big red flag pops up screaming this person has control issues and their moral compass is distorted. IE: religion.
Many religious peoples make vast assumptions about atheists without knowing anything about the person. Just because they need a guide book on how to live does not mean everyone else does as well. Morality comes from within. its when we stop listening to ourself we get into trouble and become manipulated for an-others agenda which is why so many religious people are belligerent hypocrites and cause more damage than good.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29234021


Not exactly sure where we disagree because I do not. Morality does come from within, however.. everyone needs an education. Without an education, you will have no morality.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


true morality can be taught, what is bothersome is an imposed morality like what patriarchal religions have done to indigenous peoples throughout history. or judgement of others lifestyles when the judged are not hurting anyone else. these are the contentious situations that many religions impose on others creating a kind of immoral hypocrisy.
btw im not an atheist i just respect their decision to be and can actually understand why they would come to that conclusion. everyone is where they are supposed to be. what irks me to no end is when someone judges because the other person does not think the same way as them. its the cause of much of mankinds turmoil.
Anonymous Coward
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12/11/2012 11:35 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
What is it that you are looking for,,,
ANHEDONIC

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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
an atheist doesn't need someone else to dictate morality to them. they know for themselves what is moral. when someone tells me what morality is and is not a big red flag pops up screaming this person has control issues and their moral compass is distorted. IE: religion.
Many religious peoples make vast assumptions about atheists without knowing anything about the person. Just because they need a guide book on how to live does not mean everyone else does as well. Morality comes from within. its when we stop listening to ourself we get into trouble and become manipulated for an-others agenda which is why so many religious people are belligerent hypocrites and cause more damage than good.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29234021


Not exactly sure where we disagree because I do not. Morality does come from within, however.. everyone needs an education. Without an education, you will have no morality.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


true morality can be taught, what is bothersome is an imposed morality like what patriarchal religions have done to indigenous peoples throughout history. or judgement of others lifestyles when the judged are not hurting anyone else. these are the contentious situations that many religions impose on others creating a kind of immoral hypocrisy.
btw im not an atheist i just respect their decision to be and can actually understand why they would come to that conclusion. everyone is where they are supposed to be. what irks me to no end is when someone judges because the other person does not think the same way as them. its the cause of much of mankinds turmoil.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29234021


I feel morality stems from empathy, or the ability to demonstrate empathy. An individual who demonstrates zero ability to feel empathy will have no morals and we often see this with serial killers. An individual with an excellent capacity to feel empathy with have a very strong moral compass.

I admittedly get annoyed in other threads when I see others suggesting that we need religion to teach morality to children. Why don't we leave out all the bullshit and teach/reinforce empathy and sensitivity rather than fear of 'God' or fear of judgement of 'God'??? There is no learning involved when your behavior is dictated by threatsof punishement. Learning/Understanding has to come from the heart.

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
PigsInSpace (OP)

User ID: 27539979
Canada
12/11/2012 11:48 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
an atheist doesn't need someone else to dictate morality to them. they know for themselves what is moral. when someone tells me what morality is and is not a big red flag pops up screaming this person has control issues and their moral compass is distorted. IE: religion.
Many religious peoples make vast assumptions about atheists without knowing anything about the person. Just because they need a guide book on how to live does not mean everyone else does as well. Morality comes from within. its when we stop listening to ourself we get into trouble and become manipulated for an-others agenda which is why so many religious people are belligerent hypocrites and cause more damage than good.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29234021


Not exactly sure where we disagree because I do not. Morality does come from within, however.. everyone needs an education. Without an education, you will have no morality.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


true morality can be taught, what is bothersome is an imposed morality like what patriarchal religions have done to indigenous peoples throughout history. or judgement of others lifestyles when the judged are not hurting anyone else. these are the contentious situations that many religions impose on others creating a kind of immoral hypocrisy.
btw im not an atheist i just respect their decision to be and can actually understand why they would come to that conclusion. everyone is where they are supposed to be. what irks me to no end is when someone judges because the other person does not think the same way as them. its the cause of much of mankinds turmoil.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29234021


You are mistaken. Patriarchal religions did not impose their morality upon an indigenous group of people. The indigenous people were destroyed by corrupted men whom used a forged, corrupted religion to destroy their spirituality and divine religion with. The indigenous man had religion before the corrupted arrived.

Their religion was rooted in nature, and governed by the natural laws of nature. Do you not think a religion of this nature would be beneficial to the world? How can anyone think of abolishing religion? it is a gift from the universe, it is the commune with the universe.. just because people have corrupted it, it does not mean its a bad tool. It has manifested for a very special and important reason.

Religion is an idea, a concept, a tool. It has no will of its own. Man gives it life. People must stop attacking and putting religion down. Finally. Judgement of another person because you have a difference of opinion is not at fault for the worlds problems or mankind's turmoil. If you want to find a bigger fish to fry, think capitalism. Capitalism is much more destructive than any other doctrine that currently exists on the planet. More so than judging someone for being a) b) c).
PigsInSpace (OP)

User ID: 27539979
Canada
12/11/2012 11:54 PM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
an atheist doesn't need someone else to dictate morality to them. they know for themselves what is moral. when someone tells me what morality is and is not a big red flag pops up screaming this person has control issues and their moral compass is distorted. IE: religion.
Many religious peoples make vast assumptions about atheists without knowing anything about the person. Just because they need a guide book on how to live does not mean everyone else does as well. Morality comes from within. its when we stop listening to ourself we get into trouble and become manipulated for an-others agenda which is why so many religious people are belligerent hypocrites and cause more damage than good.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29234021


Not exactly sure where we disagree because I do not. Morality does come from within, however.. everyone needs an education. Without an education, you will have no morality.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


true morality can be taught, what is bothersome is an imposed morality like what patriarchal religions have done to indigenous peoples throughout history. or judgement of others lifestyles when the judged are not hurting anyone else. these are the contentious situations that many religions impose on others creating a kind of immoral hypocrisy.
btw im not an atheist i just respect their decision to be and can actually understand why they would come to that conclusion. everyone is where they are supposed to be. what irks me to no end is when someone judges because the other person does not think the same way as them. its the cause of much of mankinds turmoil.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29234021


I feel morality stems from empathy, or the ability to demonstrate empathy. An individual who demonstrates zero ability to feel empathy will have no morals and we often see this with serial killers. An individual with an excellent capacity to feel empathy with have a very strong moral compass.

I admittedly get annoyed in other threads when I see others suggesting that we need religion to teach morality to children. Why don't we leave out all the bullshit and teach/reinforce empathy and sensitivity rather than fear of 'God' or fear of judgement of 'God'??? There is no learning involved when your behavior is dictated by threatsof punishement. Learning/Understanding has to come from the heart.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


That was an excellent paragraph. I agree with you. To add to that, we do not need religion to teach morality, religion was not intended to be a teacher. Religion was intended as the communion with god. Nature is the teacher as it is a tangible and observable companion. Initiates in the past times were already learned before they were initiated into religious orders, and had to pass certain tests to be considered. Our concept of the university is based on those establishments.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22089462
Netherlands
12/12/2012 02:17 AM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
...


Wait - so your conversion didn't occur by zealots badgering you? Do the math.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578


I am not converted to anything. I am not religious.

Religions are man made.

I am spiritual, I do know a creating force exists. I do know a Christ consciousness, so to speak exists.

If you want to give it a name, that is up to you, as man has named every deity in existence.

All I know is when I could not get above the water and could not hold my breath anymore, and the pain in my chest was unbearable, everything went black and the pain was gone.

I could hear, I was aware. When I could see again I saw the most beautiful light coming towards me, or I was going towards it, not sure. Coming out of the light towards me, I was met by a figure of light. I call the Christ consciousness. And was told telepathically, that it was not my time to meet the creator an I had to go back to learn and teach, because that is the reason for life. I had more they wanted me to do and it was an accident that I had drowned. It was not suppose to happen.

I did not want to come back. The love that I felt permeating out of that light was so embracing and unconditional. I have yet to feel its equal.

I was guided to a place, seemed like underground, murky red, muddy looking and what I saw, oh dear, I don't like to talk about that much an am glad I was not forced to enter, only peer in. I was told that this is the place some in my life's path will be going while others will choose to go into the light. Both places do exist, for I have seen them both.

Just hope your name is written in the Akashic records/ book of life before the world began, so you wont have to worry about where your consciousness resides for all eternity once your body dies.

We are not our bodies, our bodies are our classroom, life creates the lessons and our reactions to those lessons is our teacher if we choose to be taught.

 Quoting: Merci


So, it took an NDE for you to see the light (literally), but you expect skeptics here to simply roll over at arguments made of words posted on a forum? You don't suppose it might require the same type of death scenario to get through to others, as well?

Have you ever had people try and "evangelize" you? If so, how effective was it?

You seem hardcore enough that you'd actually make an awesome christian.



separates us from our creator.
 Quoting: Merci


No such separation exists
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578



I was a 13 year old child at the time of my NDE.
I do believe in a Christ consciousness because I saw it/him and it/him spoke to me and showed me many mysteries before returning.

If there is a religion, that is close at all, to what I experienced. It would be the Christian religion. Because of the creating source and the Christ consciousness that brings you into the glory of that realm. Love is the predominate force of that realm, and if love does not exist in your soul, you cannot enter into that realm.

Yes, a separation from god does exist and must exist while we are embodied. Or everyone would probably kill themselves to get back what they remembered their existence was like before incarnation.
 Quoting: Merci


So people in India who have NDE's that fall in line with their Hindu expectations of death are insincere lying scumbags?

[link to near-death.com]

Or perhaps NDE's are just showing what we expect (much like hallucinations in essence)? And since you live in the western world you expected to see a white light?

The most logical explanation is the second, because both can't be right at the same time.
ming

User ID: 1274912
Iceland
12/12/2012 07:36 AM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
I think most self-proclaimed atheists are reacting to the monotheist mantra of 'submit to my controller deity or pay' rather than promoting their own unique belief system. Their religious and/or philosophical views on the Creator could vary separate from their opinion on Abrahamism and those who spread the "Word."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25953791


I think that is well written. I'm not sure whether or not most Atheists believe that. I don't know many who actually research Atheism but may take on the label. The label implies certain things and that is where the danger may lie. I'm just speaking in the surface mainstream sense. I'm just saying that Atheism is basically impossible because it cannot exist without the concept of god, and since they don't believe in god, it kind of puts a really ironic twist on the whole thing.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


Surely that is the same as what you said about Santa. You're non belief in Santa couldn't exist without the concept of him. Does that dignify that your true disbelief is impossible?
Out of this ugliness may come,
Some day, so beautiful a flower,
That men will wonder at that hour,
Remembering smoke and flowerless slum,
And ask-glimpsing the agony
Of the slaves who wrestle to be free-
'But why were all the poets dumb?'
-William Montgomerie

So many gods, so many creeds,
So many paths that wind and wind,
While just the art of being kind
Is all the sad world needs.
-Ella Wheeler Wilcox
ming

User ID: 1274912
Iceland
12/12/2012 08:50 AM
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Re: True Atheism is impossible.
When I encounter someone who claims they are Atheist, it makes me wonder about what Atheism truly is.

The central thesis proposed by Atheism is that god does not exist, however, what most people don't realize is that "GOD" is central and key to the belief. God is the ground upon which Atheism is built on, however, the only catch is, that Atheists denounce god... but how can they truly be Atheist if god is central to their thesis? Meaning.. if there was no god, then Atheism would not be possible as a concept.

You cannot use something you do not believe in as a central point in your thesis, correct? Atheism seems like a joke that is being played on the ignorant. A true atheist would never call themselves an Atheist, because Atheism immediately locks you in to "god" or the lack of "god".. but God is still very much part of the belief structure.

Make sense?
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


No. It doesn't.

God is an idea proposed by theists (believers). Atheists are merely those who have not been convinced by any of your arguments. They do not believe. They have no need for your mental crutch.

The fact that one knows a word does NOT mean one believes in the concept it represents!

Atheists do not denounce god. They just don't believe in it. Why should I denounce something I do not believe in?

I denounce RELIGION because of the evil it commits and the indoctrination it imposes, especially on children.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29666193


The greatest trick the devil ever pulled on you, was to convince you that RELIGION as a concept is evil, and that it is not man who wields religion in an evil way. I could kill you with a butter knife, does that make a butter knife evil?

Religion is a tool wielded by corrupted individuals. They have forged it, leaving only the bare essentials, whispers of what once was, so that they would entice the human soul in it. There is deep truth hidden in the lies.. that is what draws millions of people to religion, familiarity.. You must cure your perception of religion with education, by learning the true and holy religion of the ancient era's. The truth that has been hidden from you purposefully.

The way religion is taught today is an ingenious corruption. For one, it repels people form the idea of religion, and 2. It fools the uneducated with false doctrine. WIN WIN.

The individuals whom have stolen your right to religion are smarter than you. You seek to blame a concept for the actions of man. How can anyone be accountable if ideas are killing people?

Think. Open your mind. You have not figured it all out.

Finally. The intention of my post was to point out the irony of atheism. You do not believe in god, but without god, you could not even have that non belief.
 Quoting: PigsInSpace


Your beliefs that you have stated don't seem to tie in. You say you don't hold to a religion, but you appear to believe in the devil. Again...its only other peoples belief in deities that causes the term atheist to exist. It also has to do with numbers. There is no word for people that dont believe in fairies, because its not a widespread belief. Similarly, if one person in a town believed in a god, and the rest didnt, the label would be applied to the believer rather than the non believers, its only due to the popularity of religions that a term for people who dont belive in gods even exists. Where I grew up theism or atheism was never even discussed because people never spent any time pondering the subject. Religious belief simply didn't figure in so it was just ignored. Its only when someone with religious belief comes along that the atheist term comes up.

I'm sorry but your hypothesis is just wrong.
Out of this ugliness may come,
Some day, so beautiful a flower,
That men will wonder at that hour,
Remembering smoke and flowerless slum,
And ask-glimpsing the agony
Of the slaves who wrestle to be free-
'But why were all the poets dumb?'
-William Montgomerie

So many gods, so many creeds,
So many paths that wind and wind,
While just the art of being kind
Is all the sad world needs.
-Ella Wheeler Wilcox

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