True Atheism is impossible.

I think most self-proclaimed atheists are reacting to the monotheist mantra of 'submit to my controller deity or pay' rather than promoting their own unique belief system. Their religious and/or philosophical views on the Creator could vary separate from their opinion on Abrahamism and those who spread the "Word."

Agnosticism is the only sensible answer.

IS there not one Christian who can dispute this? Not a one? Where you at? Is it really only your EGO that makes you WANT to believe? You say that FAITH is such a wonderful thing but you are so fake, so transparent. Everyone can see that you only have faith so you can continue your childlike charade of pretending that you have a sky daddy up there somewhere. You know this, you all know this. That is why you can't dispute it. HaHa, atheists got the Christers running.

No, you are wrong. You have to state your own beliefs. Maybe you might be wrong but you can't sit on the fence. That is the cowards way out. Maybe none of us know but you have to be brave and state your case. What do you believe?

Think of it this way.

If there truly was no god. What would the central thesis of an Atheist sound like?

Or rather. What is the essential piece in the Atheist theory? what does the entire belief structure revolve around?

"God."

Ooh - I see it now: God is real, because He's what they don't believe in!

Think of it as an exercise in logic. Whether or not God is real or not makes no difference, because as an Atheist, your entire belief structure revolves around "God".. God is essential to being an Atheist.

This is a matter of how you define the god.
Of course atheists don't know the answers to the mysteries of the universe. No one does.

But one thing is for sure: religions are man-made. There is no hell, no heaven, no valhalla, no zeus, no flying spaghetti monster.

Because the feeble human mind can not simply write down the truth. Religions are just a set of rules.

Terms like theist, agnostic and atheist are irrelevant.

Don't quit your day job, OP.

I'm no atheist - My entire "belief structure" revolves around God because I couldn't live without Him

how can he be wrong when his post makes the most sense? theres no proof of or against god, so its arrogant to assume you know the answer. think of it like elections. when you vote, are you forced to choose between the two important choices (rep/dem) or is your vote just as valid otherwise and allowed to be cast on whomever you please? and the end question is pretty stupid. they believe exactly as they say, but you won't accept it because it doesn't fit into most people's narrow views.

Mark 10:15
Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.”

Sir, you are absolutely right, we believers are indeed scared of death, and are grateful that Jesus defeated it, and gave us hope.

Nevertheless, I must say, that if you can look at the earth, which was fine tuned for life. If you can look out at the stars, and their beauty. If you can look at your self, and not see the miracle you are, that is truly sad.
I tell you this, my viewing those obvious miracles make me realize I don't need nearly as much faith, as you do to beleive what you believe. My mustard seed size worth of faith is dwarfed by your earth sized need of faith, to believe that all of this, is the result of dumb random forces. I have a hard time believing that time creates, last time I checked, it destroys. It's actually a law of physics that time destroys (thermodymanics). The universe was started by something, as time cannot exist in infinity, impossible. So, if time, space and matter came into existence in one felt swoop, what caused it. If there were no natural forces, one would have to beleive a supernatural force was involved. Seems logical to me...
Einstein's theory of relativity proved the so called 'Big Bang', or surge, a start, a beggining. Time itself imples a beginning and an end. As a matter of fact, Einstein, an athesit, was trouble by that discovery as it implied a beginning, which had theological implications. Scripture was the only doctine at that time that told of a beginning (Genesis 1:1). How did the writer of the Book of Genesis 3400 years ago know of a beginning, when the so called most intelligent minds prior to Einstein have no clue.
Let's just say, it would take more faith to believe what you believe. As a matter of fact, this conversatiopn disturbs you, because he (and his laws) is written on your heart (Romans 1:18-22, Romans 2:15), so you are without excuse.

You're party true, OP; most of atheists are actually agnostics - like myself.

I don't deny existence of God and even highly regard Jesus' teachings; I just cannot take the Bible as the literal truth. I'm simply not religious.

I'd like to address this post in a sense that Agnosticism is not "on the fence" like so many believe, and actually get offended and think that agnostics aren't taking sides. Rather, people who believe Agnostics are "on the fence" do not really know Agnosticism.

it does not

The one problem I have noticed with the so called "Illuminati".

Man desires a God, not so much as a Lord and Master, but a kind loving entity that had created this man to become.

To become, to be, to seek and find his true potential. This however has been lost with past religions steeped in hate, bigotry, pedophilia, genocides, greed, and so on.

Using This the church creates a void within man, a need for a father, and when the time is right, it pounces, and reaps from the week, the poor, the tired, the huddled masses, all in turn to do more of the same dastardly deeds, living a life drenched in wealth and luxury as the man animal continues to cry out in his misery with no relief.

Those others, with their gods in hand, buttons galore, addiction by psychiatric definition, yet all their power given over just the same to some worthless trinket, that may or may not answer them at the next buttons push.


This then the dilemma, does Zeus come forward, show his immortals, declare himself supreme lord, does the other there on the isle, you know not. When this loop is complete and renewed again does the game, the great race begin all over again, another tree to fall in the garden with no one to hear.

For man to evolve beyond a need for a god, requires a God or Goddess to intervene on mans behalf one assumes, to show them another way. Many have tried in the past, so many lost to history, many more loops unknown, yet man has always placed himself before this God he created in his mind, raising dirt skyward calling it god, perhaps holding it within his hand all along, yet crying in the night to a thing he can never fully grasp nor comprehend.

If man can ever come to terms that God is indeed merciful and Loving, and not a warlord conqueror, perhaps man himself can become more Godlike, perhaps evolve beyond what is seen with the jaded eye. To become merciful and loving himself.

Does the same not apply to religions as well?

Did the Greek Gods exist?

Did the Roman Gods exist?

Did the Egyptian Gods exist?

Mythology plays an integral role in all religions.

Your argument against atheism is actually equally critical of religion because they are all immersed in mythology. That being said, one can believe in a higher power without identifying with any organized religion so criticism of religious myths does not negate the potential/hypothetical existence of a higher power.

No. Atheists don't believe in ANY deities, does that mean they really believe in them ALL deep down. It's not just the Biblical God, atheist's don't think any gods exist.

Do you believe that all "gods" worshipped around the globe exist? I suppose you think they're all real and all demons?

Do you believe in fairies? Unicorns? I'm not trying to be rude here, merely to try to help you understand that to a non-believer the idea of gods,angels,demons etc just seems, well.....silly.

The logic fall short. If everyone believed the same as atheists then there would be no reason for the word 'atheism' to even exist. It would just be 'the way'. So you would have people who don't believe in 'God' and no designation by which to label them, so your logic would not apply to that situation. The only reason 'atheism' is a known term is because it lies in opposition to other existing belief systems and schools of thought.

By your logic how could you ever oppose something that you do not believe in without acknowledging the concept/idea in communication with those who do?

If I tell you Santa Claus is real, do you have to believe in Santa Claus to be able to tell me that you feel he is not real? If you tell me that Santa Claus is not real can I accuse you of believing in something you feel does not exist merely because you acknowledged the concept in the act of refuting it?

I'm not an atheist either, but your thread makes for interesting discussion. : )

P.S. I think most atheists are just oppossed to the organized religions' depictions of 'God' that have been forced upon them by society. They got a bad taste in their mouth and have been turned off from the concept altogether. I believe if you/we offered different conceptualizations or depictions of what a higher power might actually represent, there would be a contingent of 'atheists' who would reconsider their 'belief system'. The problem is this doesn't happen and the common depictions of 'God' are nothing more than humans projecting human qualities & duality onto a conceptualization of a higher power/authority - which fails to acknowledge that a higher power by definition would transcend that which is familiar to us in this physical reality we live in.

Your logic sucks btw.

No. All atheism requires is other peoples belief in supernatural deities to exist.If nobody believed then atheism wouldn't exist, as there would be no need for the definition.

And to say that an atheists entire belief structure revolves around gods,or their lack of belief in gods, is ludicrous. People are perfectly capable of believing in things other than supernatural beings that require worship. I realise its hard for you to understand, but its true.

"Sky Daddy" is a pretty funny term, nice one. Also.. I read your definition or impression of what you think a believer is/believes in, and I can assure you that your opinion is limited to certain people. Not everyone believes because they are afraid.

I believe because I feel. I was a very ardent non believer but I have since found faith and belief in something. To me GOD is not a sky daddy. Think of god as the deity whom sacrificed themselves in order for you to incarnate. We can only come from one thing. That thing divides infinitely based on the principles, but not limited to, creativity, love, experience.. what we have is a perpetual eternal machine that sustains itself through its own growth. The universe is ever expanding because god is ever learning. We are the tools of that god, experiencing life, creating and sculpting realities. There is something magical about this gift that we have to procreate, create, learn, and teach. Knowledge is the cure for atheism. The more you learn, the more you understand the complexity/simplicity of daily experiences and things, you can only reach one conclusion, and that is an omnipotent, self less, unselfish, creation, and that creation is god.

I see your point and I don't disagree with you, however, I don't feel that you represent a mainstream definition of Atheist. I think you have taken something and made it into something else. Ask anyone you know, what does being an atheist mean and see what they say. Everyone of them will mention god. If there was no god, that would be impossible.

Ha, Ha , Ha. Religitards trying to beat athiest in a logic dance. Your to stupid to even know your stupid.

"The logic fall short. If everyone believed the same as atheists then there would be no reason for the word 'atheism' to even exist. It would just be 'the way'."

That is an interesting statement because it works inversely in my favor as well. Let me make it clear that I am not saying one side is right and one is not, I am just deconstructing the beliefs into their constituents and seeing which belief structures need certain elements? When you deconstruct these beliefs into ingredients, both sides have god in the mix. I think it's ironic more than anything else.

I don't think its possible to use hypothetical situations in this discussion, how can that be logical where reality does not reflect it? I am referring to when you described about Atheism being "the way"...In this case, it is impossible to provide hypothetical examples to counter my point because we are not living in those realities and cannot test them. Atheism is known because of the non belief in god and we can test this. That's what made it famous. Everything else is a footnote.

"By your logic how could you ever oppose something that you do not believe in without acknowledging the concept/idea in communication with those who do? "

Right, good question. Because we are discussing god. If we were discussing mangos or apples, you could acknowledge them because they are tangible. Certain ideologies we may not believe in or agree with exist, some that we oppose.

As far as Santa is concerned I do not believe he exists but I am forced to acknowledge him because others do. That's as simple as it gets for me in that regard. My point about Atheism is that it cannot exist without god.. Christmas can exist without Santa though.

"I'm not an atheist either, but your thread makes for interesting discussion. : )"

Agreed. It's a fun idea to discuss. Thanks for your time, some very good and challenging points. : )

Cool. I don't take the Bible as literal truth either, but I do believe in god. my belief is founded on research, and earnestly looking at everything and considering the constituents of all things. I see intelligence in everything. Not only do I see intelligence, I see a structure.

i really think you should be spending your time doing something else. Also i'm going to assume (as you have) you think someone is going to save you when it all ends.


Make sense...

'Theism' - is a belief that a supreme being exists - maybe more than one, depending on the belief system.

Put a letter 'a' in front of that, and the word 'atheism' by definition, is not a positive belief that there is 'no god' - it is a lack of belief.

"On the other hand, Atheism requires “faith” (using their own definition) that the laws of chemistry, physics and biology were once violated and life arose from non-life via chemical evolution."

Semantics.
Play with the words all you like - a lack of belief does not validate a deity.