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could a christian answer this please

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21291600
United States
12/10/2012 09:23 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
According to the bible. (I am not a Christian but have studied it to great length)

You are correct that Man cannot begin to achieve the level of virtue to reach heaven.

That's why Jesus died...
he acts as an ambassador on your behalf.
 Quoting: El Tiburon


what happens if there isnt a heaven

its not like anyone has been there and seen it

my point is

what if this is all there really is

because im thinking

why if there is someone like god with all the intelligence to buld whole planets stars people animals and everything else


why would he build something like us only to test us before accepting us into heaven

unless

there isnt a heaven

and once we die we die

thats it
and
the bible is basically telling us that

it begins with creation

and ends with destruction
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


what if there is?

there is no way to answer "what if" questions.
the only way to answer is to counter.

the bible tells us that it starts with the Eternal God and His creation.

it crescendos with destruction and ends with eternal life with our Creator in a heaven and new earth.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1581136
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12/10/2012 09:27 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
According to the bible. (I am not a Christian but have studied it to great length)

You are correct that Man cannot begin to achieve the level of virtue to reach heaven.

That's why Jesus died...
he acts as an ambassador on your behalf.
 Quoting: El Tiburon


what happens if there isnt a heaven

its not like anyone has been there and seen it

my point is

what if this is all there really is

because im thinking

why if there is someone like god with all the intelligence to buld whole planets stars people animals and everything else


why would he build something like us only to test us before accepting us into heaven

unless

there isnt a heaven

and once we die we die

thats it
and
the bible is basically telling us that

it begins with creation

and ends with destruction
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461



[link to www.youtube.com]

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1194370
United States
12/10/2012 09:29 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
could a christian answer this please...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


Yes OP, a Christian could answer that. But you seem to not be interested in what a Christian thinks. You seem to already have the answers you are looking for.

So what is it you are seeking?

peace,
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 29027461
United Kingdom
12/10/2012 09:32 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
According to the bible. (I am not a Christian but have studied it to great length)

You are correct that Man cannot begin to achieve the level of virtue to reach heaven.

That's why Jesus died...
he acts as an ambassador on your behalf.
 Quoting: El Tiburon


what happens if there isnt a heaven

its not like anyone has been there and seen it

my point is

what if this is all there really is

because im thinking

why if there is someone like god with all the intelligence to buld whole planets stars people animals and everything else


why would he build something like us only to test us before accepting us into heaven

unless

there isnt a heaven

and once we die we die

thats it
and
the bible is basically telling us that

it begins with creation

and ends with destruction
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


what if there is?

there is no way to answer "what if" questions.
the only way to answer is to counter.

the bible tells us that it starts with the Eternal God and His creation.

it crescendos with destruction and ends with eternal life with our Creator in a heaven and new earth.
 Quoting: Salt


the whole question of heaven is a what if though

isnt it


im still trying to get to grips with why god will give us mortality only to have us sin then send his son to die for our sins then give us immortality
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2012 09:32 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
[link to www.youtube.com]

Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2012 09:33 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
It's called LOVE! God didn't want this world to be this way. In the beginning, everything was perfect! God could have just wiped us from existence then, which is really what we deserved because of rebellion, but that would make Him a tyrant in the sky, and it would have been a demonstration of satanic character. God is love. God loved us so He made a way for us to get back to Him. That involved the death of a perfect, holy, being, namely, Jesus. He did it knowing the majority would reject Him. If even ONE would believe and receive Him, He would have done it.

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Don't ever think that verse says "all sin and come short of the glory of God"... it's past tense. Yes, all of us HAVE sinned, but that doesn't mean we HAVE to continually sin. Sin can be overcome. God is stronger than Satan! I know this first hand because I've been in situations where strong temptation comes, and I pray for power to overcome, and God will ALWAYS answer that prayer.

Sin is ALWAYS a choice! We don't HAVE to sin, we CHOOSE to sin! Resist the devil and he will flee from you the Bible says. The problem is people love sin. I always pray for a HATRED of sin, every sin, any sin, all sin! The things I used to like in my sinful life I now despise and the good and holy things I now enjoy. Sanctification is a life experience, overcoming daily through the blood of the lamb! It CAN be achieved. Not saying I never sin now or I never fall, because I do. The difference is, I feel guilty right away, I repent right away, I claim victory right away, and I avoid situations that may cause me to sin. it's all about a choice!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4990480


Very good answer my friend, this is the truth of it.

God created us, we sinned constantly throughout our years on this earth, and God loves us as His creation so we have the chance to be with Him if we treat others with love and trust in Jesus who died on the cross for our sins, so that even though we have sinned we can still be forgiven, and we can forgive others for their sins as God forgives us.

hf
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 29561688
United States
12/10/2012 09:35 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
According to the bible. (I am not a Christian but have studied it to great length)

You are correct that Man cannot begin to achieve the level of virtue to reach heaven.

That's why Jesus died...
he acts as an ambassador on your behalf.
 Quoting: El Tiburon


what happens if there isnt a heaven

its not like anyone has been there and seen it

my point is

what if this is all there really is

because im thinking

why if there is someone like god with all the intelligence to buld whole planets stars people animals and everything else


why would he build something like us only to test us before accepting us into heaven

unless

there isnt a heaven

and once we die we die

thats it
and
the bible is basically telling us that

it begins with creation

and ends with destruction
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


what if there is?

there is no way to answer "what if" questions.
the only way to answer is to counter.

the bible tells us that it starts with the Eternal God and His creation.

it crescendos with destruction and ends with eternal life with our Creator in a heaven and new earth.
 Quoting: Salt


the whole question of heaven is a what if though

isnt it


im still trying to get to grips with why god will give us mortality only to have us sin then send his son to die for our sins then give us immortality
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461




You have all the answers in the Bible; accept it or reject it. You have no excuse for not knowing God.
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2012 09:39 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
the whole question of heaven is a what if though

isnt it


im still trying to get to grips with why god will give us mortality only to have us sin then send his son to die for our sins then give us immortality
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


well, there are lots of things you believe in without seeing them first.

for example, when you go to sit in your chair, you believe that it will hold your weight without knowing in advance whether it will or not. you ASSUME that it will.

the thing about scripture that most people don't understand is that it is a very detailed, ordered, prophetic work over a span of about 5000 years. there is no way that it is false, fabricated, calculated in advance as a tool for evil, etc etc etc. when one studies, one learns why it is infallible and authentic.

because of this, one ASSUMES that what it says is correct and true.

read the link i proved about Hell.
it isn't what people think it is.

if you can wrap your head around that concept and accept it, then your whole perspective will change.

here's another way of thinking about it:

it's better to have a gun and not need one, than to need a gun and not have one.

in other words, i would rather accept the possibility that what is written in the infallible, incredible archaeological and historical fact of the 66 books of the bible as being authentic and true, then to toss it aside without even knowing what it really is, and then come to the place of my death and realize "oops"
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/10/2012 09:40 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
could a christian answer this please...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


Yes OP, a Christian could answer that. But you seem to not be interested in what a Christian thinks. You seem to already have the answers you are looking for.

So what is it you are seeking?

peace,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370


just an answer to something that is confusing me

why we go through this life

to get to another one

i dont get it

and the only conclusion i come up with is

there is no other one

and reading the bible basically says there is no other life

it tells us to live by certain codes and conducts

it tells us whats right and wrong

then after all of this it tells us it all ends

so basically its just describing a journey from creation to destruction

and everything in it tells us there is no immortality except for god

who even says he is a jealous god and there are none like him
overwhatshername

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12/10/2012 09:40 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
god created the world

the heaven

the earth

the stars

the universe

and us

we have to live on earth

when on earth all our lives we have to spend trying to get into heaven

god made us inferior to himself more inferior then the angels in heaven

but when on earth we have to live our lives as good as the angels
and perfect like god

if we dont we die in fire and brimstone

go to hell for eternity

and god will come down and destroy the earth everything on it
armagedon style

so in a way

we cant really win can we

because we are all sinners

so we cant get into heaven anyway

so why did god put us here in the first place if all we are going to do is die
and get judged for the shit we do here


i dont get it
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


You have to realize you are a sinner and try your best to live a good life. God knows your heart. Quit trying to understand God because you never will. Instead, understand that humans are lost without God, and right now are being perverted by evil forces. Stop the evil from the source, trace the money back to where it originates. Liars, thieves, betrayers, evil people who willfully continue to pervade our lives need to be brought to justice. I have had enough of watching this world wilt to their greedy selfish needs.

End them.
Let true freedom and goodness reign.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/10/2012 09:43 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
im still trying to get to grips with why god will give us mortality only to have us sin then send his son to die for our sins then give us immortality
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


It is bigger than mere men OP.

Why does one choose to die for men whereas another chooses to enslave men?

So that one may be glorified and the other shamed.

So that one may prove His worthiness to rule and reign throughout eternity and another might demonstrate his inability to rule and reign.

peace,
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/10/2012 09:51 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
could a christian answer this please...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


Yes OP, a Christian could answer that. But you seem to not be interested in what a Christian thinks. You seem to already have the answers you are looking for.

So what is it you are seeking?

peace,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370


just an answer to something that is confusing me

why we go through this life

to get to another one

i dont get it

and the only conclusion i come up with is

there is no other one

and reading the bible basically says there is no other life

it tells us to live by certain codes and conducts

it tells us whats right and wrong

then after all of this it tells us it all ends

so basically its just describing a journey from creation to destruction

and everything in it tells us there is no immortality except for god

who even says he is a jealous god and there are none like him
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


if i may jump in here...
there is no "live this life and then get another one"

you stay you forever. unless you die the second death. this life now, this part of the trip, is a very tiny fraction of how you will exist. the only difference is now you have an animal body and that will be shed for your true nature to return.
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2012 09:53 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
could a christian answer this please...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


Yes OP, a Christian could answer that. But you seem to not be interested in what a Christian thinks. You seem to already have the answers you are looking for.

So what is it you are seeking?

peace,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370


just an answer to something that is confusing me

why we go through this life

to get to another one

i dont get it

and the only conclusion i come up with is

there is no other one

and reading the bible basically says there is no other life

it tells us to live by certain codes and conducts

it tells us whats right and wrong

then after all of this it tells us it all ends

so basically its just describing a journey from creation to destruction

and everything in it tells us there is no immortality except for god

who even says he is a jealous god and there are none like him
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


In the span of eternity, what is this life?

Should God simply destroy those wicked spirits? Blot them out of existence?

What patience and long suffering would this demonstrate to all of creation?

But if God, in His mercy, give space for all things to fully manifest their works - space for repentance and space for evil to bloom as well, then will all of creation be witness to his justice and righteousness and mercy and long suffering.

Then all mouths will be stopped at His judgement. As none will call into question his works in that day. In the fullness of time.

But make no mistake, He will make a short work of this OP. Evil will NOT rise up a second time.

Have patience and trust in His plan OP. It is a plan for all of creation and not just men.

peace,
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2012 09:54 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
god created the world

the heaven

the earth

the stars

the universe

and us

we have to live on earth

when on earth all our lives we have to spend trying to get into heaven

god made us inferior to himself more inferior then the angels in heaven

but when on earth we have to live our lives as good as the angels
and perfect like god

if we dont we die in fire and brimstone

go to hell for eternity

and god will come down and destroy the earth everything on it
armagedon style

so in a way

we cant really win can we

because we are all sinners

so we cant get into heaven anyway

so why did god put us here in the first place if all we are going to do is die
and get judged for the shit we do here


i dont get it
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


God is omnipotent..all knowing and all seeing. He knew long before he created anyone that billions of beings he was about to create were destined to be tortured by being burnt alive forever by him in a place he created JUST for that purpose.

GOD PLANNED hell.

If He did not he is not all knowing.

He is also a TORTURE expert and has seen to it that the people in hell suffer to the UTMOST every second of their eternity..being so compassionate and merciful God also saw to it that there would be NO correction there..NO rehab..and NO WAY OUT..a Just and fair "Punishment of eternal duration for the mere sin of being created and born into a world where life generally sux..followed by an even more suckful eternity.

But Jesus DIED to save us from this place he INTENDED us to go to..the place HE created to roast the vast majority of people alive in unbearable agony forever. He died to save us from HIS JUSTICE..to save us from HIMSELF really..after all..HE RUNS and MAINTAINS HELL..PLUS..he created every torture device there..HE creates the flames by the word of his mouth..HE knows every bit of agony that goes on there..and all those there DESERVE it..for being born HUMAN..in a fucked up crazy loveless world with about 20 million religions to choose and confuse..

But if we choose wrong..with our very LIMITED understanding of life or eternity..sorry..but you have to BURN.

Also..if you are born into a religion like islam or Bhuddism or some such..YOU WILL BURN as well..for DARING to be born to the wrong culture..wrong parents..and wrong religion..even though GOD chooses who gets born to who and where..cause if he did NOT choose..and you are born by MISTAKE into the wrong religion..then God is not all KNOWING and NOT in control at all.

So..its a fair system..IF you are a braindead, cold hearted, hate filled, egotistical, blood lusting, unjust, hypocrite.

In other words..you average hell beleiving christian.
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2012 09:57 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
God did not make us inferior.
He made us in His image.

when you look in the mirror, you see your reflection. is it you staring back at you in the mirror? no. it is your reflection, a perfect assimile of yourself.

God made us to express His divine love.
Everything He did for us, and does, is because of His love.

it's a marriage.
God is the bridegroom and we are the bride.
it's perfect.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 29027461
United Kingdom
12/10/2012 09:59 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
god created the world

the heaven

the earth

the stars

the universe

and us

we have to live on earth

when on earth all our lives we have to spend trying to get into heaven

god made us inferior to himself more inferior then the angels in heaven

but when on earth we have to live our lives as good as the angels
and perfect like god

if we dont we die in fire and brimstone

go to hell for eternity

and god will come down and destroy the earth everything on it
armagedon style

so in a way

we cant really win can we

because we are all sinners

so we cant get into heaven anyway

so why did god put us here in the first place if all we are going to do is die
and get judged for the shit we do here


i dont get it
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


God is omnipotent..all knowing and all seeing. He knew long before he created anyone that billions of beings he was about to create were destined to be tortured by being burnt alive forever by him in a place he created JUST for that purpose.

GOD PLANNED hell.

If He did not he is not all knowing.

He is also a TORTURE expert and has seen to it that the people in hell suffer to the UTMOST every second of their eternity..being so compassionate and merciful God also saw to it that there would be NO correction there..NO rehab..and NO WAY OUT..a Just and fair "Punishment of eternal duration for the mere sin of being created and born into a world where life generally sux..followed by an even more suckful eternity.

But Jesus DIED to save us from this place he INTENDED us to go to..the place HE created to roast the vast majority of people alive in unbearable agony forever. He died to save us from HIS JUSTICE..to save us from HIMSELF really..after all..HE RUNS and MAINTAINS HELL..PLUS..he created every torture device there..HE creates the flames by the word of his mouth..HE knows every bit of agony that goes on there..and all those there DESERVE it..for being born HUMAN..in a fucked up crazy loveless world with about 20 million religions to choose and confuse..

But if we choose wrong..with our very LIMITED understanding of life or eternity..sorry..but you have to BURN.

Also..if you are born into a religion like islam or Bhuddism or some such..YOU WILL BURN as well..for DARING to be born to the wrong culture..wrong parents..and wrong religion..even though GOD chooses who gets born to who and where..cause if he did NOT choose..and you are born by MISTAKE into the wrong religion..then God is not all KNOWING and NOT in control at all.

So..its a fair system..IF you are a braindead, cold hearted, hate filled, egotistical, blood lusting, unjust, hypocrite.

In other words..you average hell beleiving christian.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16501146


well if i thought i was confused before


im completely screwed now
El Tiburon

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United States
12/10/2012 10:05 PM

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Re: could a christian answer this please
OP...
I was born a sinner...
Accepted Jesus as a teen.
In my 20's I felt silly about my Christianity and started looking elsewhere for my salvation.
I naturally fell in with the Atheist crowd and began to read their teachings.

I never "renounced Christ" but my "faith" had all but disappeared.

As a Atheist groupie, I noticed I had a bad habit of asking the really simple questions that Atheists usually blow off by calling the asker a "Bible Thumper"...etc...

But me being a potential convert they tried diligently to answer my questions. Quite often we'd enter a circular discussion that lead to nowhere. I read Richard Dawkins and felt even more dismayed at his complete inability to answer even the most simple of questions. I got where he was coming from but it didn't sink in that their lack of faith required an even larger "leap" than to simply follow the bible word for word.

Fast forward, I left the people who don't believe but refuse to shut the fuck up about it behind.

Fast Forward again... Today, I am certain of a creator. I mean 100% certain. Maybe not the old man with a white beard sitting on a cloud version... but a creator non the less.

I don't even begin to pretend to have answers. But hopefully the Cliff Note version of my life may help?????

Last Edited by First Born on 12/10/2012 10:06 PM
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2012 10:09 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
could a christian answer this please...

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


Yes OP, a Christian could answer that. But you seem to not be interested in what a Christian thinks. You seem to already have the answers you are looking for.

So what is it you are seeking?

peace,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1194370


clappa
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2012 10:09 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
god created the world

the heaven

the earth

the stars

the universe

and us

we have to live on earth

when on earth all our lives we have to spend trying to get into heaven

god made us inferior to himself more inferior then the angels in heaven

but when on earth we have to live our lives as good as the angels
and perfect like god

if we dont we die in fire and brimstone

go to hell for eternity

and god will come down and destroy the earth everything on it
armagedon style

so in a way

we cant really win can we

because we are all sinners

so we cant get into heaven anyway

so why did god put us here in the first place if all we are going to do is die
and get judged for the shit we do here


i dont get it
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


God is omnipotent..all knowing and all seeing. He knew long before he created anyone that billions of beings he was about to create were destined to be tortured by being burnt alive forever by him in a place he created JUST for that purpose.

GOD PLANNED hell.

If He did not he is not all knowing.

He is also a TORTURE expert and has seen to it that the people in hell suffer to the UTMOST every second of their eternity..being so compassionate and merciful God also saw to it that there would be NO correction there..NO rehab..and NO WAY OUT..a Just and fair "Punishment of eternal duration for the mere sin of being created and born into a world where life generally sux..followed by an even more suckful eternity.

But Jesus DIED to save us from this place he INTENDED us to go to..the place HE created to roast the vast majority of people alive in unbearable agony forever. He died to save us from HIS JUSTICE..to save us from HIMSELF really..after all..HE RUNS and MAINTAINS HELL..PLUS..he created every torture device there..HE creates the flames by the word of his mouth..HE knows every bit of agony that goes on there..and all those there DESERVE it..for being born HUMAN..in a fucked up crazy loveless world with about 20 million religions to choose and confuse..

But if we choose wrong..with our very LIMITED understanding of life or eternity..sorry..but you have to BURN.

Also..if you are born into a religion like islam or Bhuddism or some such..YOU WILL BURN as well..for DARING to be born to the wrong culture..wrong parents..and wrong religion..even though GOD chooses who gets born to who and where..cause if he did NOT choose..and you are born by MISTAKE into the wrong religion..then God is not all KNOWING and NOT in control at all.

So..its a fair system..IF you are a braindead, cold hearted, hate filled, egotistical, blood lusting, unjust, hypocrite.

In other words..you average hell beleiving christian.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16501146


well if i thought i was confused before


im completely screwed now
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29027461


Scary aint it?

But its EXACTLY what MOST christians are taught and wholeheartedly believe.

I know..I was one of them for a very long time..a very CONFUSING time.

Till I realised that god just CANNOT BE what they were saying he was.

So I dug deeper..and found that in the end he will bring everyone home..one way or the other.

Remember he said he would leave the 99 sheep to find the one lost one?

He meant it.

Even the most vile person will eventually be brought home.

It wont be a pleasant trip though..evil is its own punishment..and HELL...is not a place of flames..its a sea of LOVE..designed to burn out EVIL.

Those who rebell now..or on purpose do evil now, WILL go into this fire of refining..they will get out..once the last cent is paid..and they will NOT enjoy the process..not at first..but in the end they will bow and admit they were wrong.

Love never fails.

Those who willingly turn to Jesus in THIS life wont have to face the lake..the second death..but those who DONT submit now..WILL face it..and the lake of the fire of his love WILL be tormenting..as fire melts ice..so love melts evil and destroys it.

But it has an end..when the soul being purified has had all the evil destroyed..out of the fire it comes..into the arms of the father who is only to happy to welcome the lost but now refined sheep back home again.

Evil is not allowed in Gods presence..thats why the fire is there..to burn it away...once its gone..the soul is free...and HOME at last...back where it started...and a whole lot WISER..and full of grattitude and love..that even a wretch like itself..was found worthy despite its evil..to be refined..transformed..and forgiven.
TheCartel

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12/11/2012 06:20 PM

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Re: could a christian answer this please
Free will. Choosing between right and wrong.
Anonymous Coward
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12/11/2012 06:40 PM
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Re: could a christian answer this please
God knows you are not perfect. He knows you can never be perfect. He sent His son who is perfect to take the fall for you. All you have to do to get into to heaven is to accept that Jesus died for your sins so that you can get into heaven. You will be accepted not by your own works but by the sacrifice that Jesus made. That's it!

Once you accept Jesus you will change your life from the inside because of the power of the Holy Spirit who will live within you, not by your own power.
 Quoting: A Friend


^^^^^THIS^^^^^^
Anonymous Coward
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Re: could a christian answer this please


Mormon viewpoint