The Idolaters Were Not Mainline Jews or Mainline Christians - Re: Pagan Influences - This data might surprise you.

The Healing of the Paralytic – the oldest known image of Jesus, from the Syrian city of Dura Europos, dating from about 235 ( [link to en.wikipedia.org]

Sarapis/Zeus 2nd century

Excellent article Salt!

There is one very large "Christian" denomination that I can think of that uses copious amounts of graven images and adorns their palaces with all kinds of "art"...billions of people, fooled.

I'm going to have to do some heavy reading on that ASK site...never knew it existed before :)

Thanks again and God bless!

Great topic Salt !(like always) and very important at this time because of what people are confusing who Jesus is.
FYI - Your You Tube video isn't working.



Last Edited by Indysmindy on 12/29/2012 01:00 AM

I wonder which one that would be?

It's working!! Watching it now.

ok, good.
the vid is a good presentation on both Jewish and Christian idols/pagan images incorporated into the religion. mind blowing.

Salt -

Can't really back this up *but*

As a former Mormon, we were taught that a Version of Christianity existed before "Jews" popped up, one that was centered around the expectation of Messiah, rather than the one that is looking back on Messiah.

Let's suppose this is true, that God revealed his plan of Christ to Adam, and Adam and family carried on these traditions as the generations spread around the globe.

Would it not be logical to assume that some of what we call the "Pagan" beliefs and practices are really just this Pre-Christian tradition with names changing based on culture, some of the details warped, just enough so that you essentially get the same story in every culture but slightly different?

We know that "Wise Men" aka Astrologers were keeping tabs on the charts, waiting for this Messiah.

Now since Astrology is naturally cyclical, would it not be logical to assume that there were several canidates for "Messiah" in the old world?

We cannot deny that the story of Christ is a direct reflection of Zodiacal influences and correspondences. Nor should we, if God's plan was revealed to Adam, it was likely in the form of the Zodiac which is why so much Occult is hidden within the Torah as Kabbalah.

I think what we have here is a case of the tail wagging the dog, and that the root of Paganism is, in fact, Christianity.

It is the Yahwehic, Judaic interloper who first contacted Abraham that came along and really, truly messed things up and made it all very confusing, calling himself "God" of creation when, perhaps, not so much?

the zodiacal influences are a reflection of the actuality/reality of Christ. not the other way around.

Christ was prophecied from the very beginning. lots of chunks of the ancient writings cut out and left on the "editing floor" of the synagogues of the time. these would be the OT apocryphals. God's plan was revealed to Adam, it is included in the writings starting with Genesis 1:1.

While there were many other religions in the world; animism, paganism; polytheism, etc etc etc, God revealed Himself to the Israelites.

You are either reading too many of apollo's threads or getting waist deep in new age stuff.

Paganism is way older than Christianity, they are completely different and separate from each other until non-mainline Jews and Christians began blending them together, and that is the premise of this thread.

You listen to the Byte Show, don't you?

never heard of it

I am surprised. I just heard the guy who took over the ASKELM ministry read the article on the site last week: [link to www.thebyteshow.com]

link seems interesting. i think i will check a few of these out. thanks

hahaha, right!

any non idolators out there?

we only need one

just one

It's both, at the same time IMO. God makes the sky, puts in the Zodiac as his signature, revealing his plans. Zodiac fortells Christ, Christ fulfills Zodiac.


It becomes clear, fairly quickly, that Genesis is older than Judaism, which is ironic since it is attributed to Moses. If we are going to be honest, what we would say after careful evaluation is that Moses recieved the Torah from Yahweh, who seems to be retelling already existing stories about Adam, Eve and the generations of man. Genesis itself spells out the origins of Creation epics that echo that of Archeology, essentially that Abraham was from Ur, Sumeria, and the occounts went from Sumeria to Babylon to Egypt.

This is all generously awarded on the foundation that Genesis is actually older than 500 BC or so, and that "Moses" had any real thing to do with it.

Why are the earliest Jewish expectations of Messiah apocryphal, anyway? That's worth a thread.


Yeah, but didn't God reveal himself and his plans to Adam, as well? So between Adam and Israel, you have thousands of years which Adamic knowledge gradually decays and gets forgotten/distorted and next thing you know you have "Hmmm, that's quite similar to Christ..." Pagan systems developing, all very similar to each other.

Enter your Mithras, Krishnas, all these types you always hear about.


Here's the thing: Christ had secrets, and Christ mentioned that these secrets would be unveiled in the last days.

The Globalization of information brings all points of view together for scrutiny. Certainly, we cannot reject all new or potentially insightful information or theory out-of-hand simply because it is new.

New Age is channeling, divining, scrying, Chakra molesting, this sort of thing. I'm not saying any of that.

I'm just suggesting that Christianity was established with Adam, passed down, got mixed up a bit, and completely changed color through what became Judaism, to the point where "Pagans" were actually more ready to accept Christ because Christ was already exactly like what they already believed in!


Paganism cannot be "Older than Christianity" if the premise of Adamic Christianity is accepted, which we seem to agree it is: God gave his plan to Adam.

It would follow that Christianity is the first religion on the Planet, or at least in this dispensation.

I believe this manner of conversation is in-line with the Premise of your thread.

In point, It was Moses who introduced the prohibition of Idolatry. We cannot be certain that the Pagan beliefs ever had any such restriction, going back to Adam, and that this may be exactly why the re-introduction of Idolatry *from* the Pagans into Post-Messianic Christianity was so easily accpeted.

It was always there in the first place.

That said, the term "Idolatry" is loaded. Is anyone literally worshipping a carving, a picture, sculpture or cast metal "thing" as a God? I don't think even the weakest minded, carnal Hedonist would say that the Idol *is* God but simply acts as a frame of reference for group worship.

us mortals have been groomed our entire lives to see an image and then to worship it. it feels really strange at first to start communicating with God while not forming any mental image of Him. it is vitally important to disconnect yourself from any mental image of what God probably looks like.

agreed. you said it better than i.

Thanks Salt. I've read a little on Pagan influences on Christianity. One of the main points of the book I am slowly reading is that the first Christian Church was held in houses without preachers. The early Christian church spread like lightning across Rome. Why? It was about being active, and it was simple, today we are put to sleep by our preachers and have huge buildings to maintain. There was no massive infrastructure overhead. We are meant to be active in "church"- where church is the people. The people are the church, we are the body. We have lost this and forgotten and that is where the power and influence has died. The holy spirit works through the people, in service we close our mouths and are not active.

The architecture of the church buildings stems from Paganism. This was due to Constantine merging Christianity and Paganism, so Christianity bended to allow more popularity and collectively more unity. Christianity isn't meant to bend we are to obey the law and the guidance of Christ. The great Pagan orators is our basis for the pastor. Again Paganism in the Christian bloodstream.

As well this ties in to worshiping on Sunday instead of Saturday. Instead of worshiping on the Sabbath, "Saturday". Most churches now worship on the day of the "Sun".

roots of all religions go back to india. dont waste your time salt... go to the root of it all... the root of islam christianity buddhism jews everything.

i believe that Moses was the first to actually scribe what had been passed down from Adam thru oral tradition.

the apocryphals were vital pieces of the epic but were politically removed based on two factors 1) historical credibility because author could not be verified, and/or 2) they specifically prophecied the coming Messiah in strict detail.

pfffffffttttt.....bwahahahahaaaa

we most definitely reject any new info. after scriptures were complete, it is done/sealed/finished. it is clearly specified that there will be NOTHING ADDED OR REMOVED. This is the orthodoxy. Same with OT (even tho the juicy chunks regarding the Messiah were clearly defined in the apocryphals), they are complete, sealed, finished.

the point of this thread is that the message is in-tact. the imagery is not. and any new thing that came from that point on is fasle.

Christianity did not exist until the death of Christ.
While we agree that Christ is eternal, with God, and from the beginning. Christianity did not exist since the beginning.

Paganism came about during the time of Cain and progressed forward from there.

I'm anti-idolatry too. In it's favour though, the history of christian art makes it more difficult for pagans to erase it, like they try to do with everything Christian.

I love what you're doing, Salt. You're essentially preaching the Gospel of Lord Yeshua in a way that conspiracy folks can better relate to.

I saw that video you posted a while ago, and I know that those images of 'Jesus' - the ones that look like a long-haired hippie are not correct at all.

Christianity is one of the biggest conspiracies alive.

the truth is out there. and it aint nowhere near what you think.