the zodiacal influences are a reflection of the actuality/reality of Christ. not the other way around. Quoting: Salt
It's both, at the same time IMO. God makes the sky, puts in the Zodiac as his signature, revealing his plans. Zodiac fortells Christ, Christ fulfills Zodiac.
Christ was prophecied from the very beginning. lots of chunks of the ancient writings cut out and left on the "editing floor" of the synagogues of the time. these would be the OT apocryphals. God's plan was revealed to Adam, it is included in the writings starting with Genesis 1:1. Quoting: Salt
It becomes clear, fairly quickly, that Genesis is older than Judaism, which is ironic since it is attributed to Moses. If we are going to be honest, what we would say after careful evaluation is that Moses recieved the Torah from Yahweh, who seems to be retelling already existing stories about Adam, Eve and the generations of man. Genesis itself spells out the origins of Creation epics that echo that of Archeology, essentially that Abraham was from Ur, Sumeria, and the occounts went from Sumeria to Babylon to Egypt.
This is all generously awarded on the foundation that Genesis is actually older than 500 BC or so, and that "Moses" had any real thing to do with it.
Why are the earliest Jewish expectations of Messiah apocryphal, anyway? That's worth a thread.
While there were many other religions in the world; animism, paganism; polytheism, etc etc etc, God revealed Himself to the Israelites. Quoting: Salt
Yeah, but didn't God reveal himself and his plans to Adam, as well? So between Adam and Israel, you have thousands of years which Adamic knowledge gradually decays and gets forgotten/distorted and next thing you know you have "Hmmm, that's quite similar to Christ..." Pagan systems developing, all very similar to each other.
Enter your Mithras, Krishnas, all these types you always hear about.
You are either reading too many of apollo's threads or getting waist deep in new age stuff. Quoting: Salt
Here's the thing: Christ had secrets, and Christ mentioned that these secrets would be unveiled in the last days.
The Globalization of information brings all points of view together for scrutiny. Certainly, we cannot reject all new or potentially insightful information or theory out-of-hand simply because it is new.
New Age is channeling, divining, scrying, Chakra molesting, this sort of thing. I'm not saying any of that.
I'm just suggesting that Christianity was established with Adam, passed down, got mixed up a bit, and completely changed color through what became Judaism, to the point where "Pagans" were actually more ready to accept Christ because Christ was already exactly like what they already believed in!
Paganism is way older than Christianity, they are completely different and separate from each other until non-mainline Jews and Christians began blending them together, and that is the premise of this thread. Quoting: Salt
Paganism cannot be "Older than Christianity" if the premise of Adamic Christianity is accepted, which we seem to agree it is: God gave his plan to Adam.
It would follow that Christianity is the first religion on the Planet, or at least in this dispensation.
I believe this manner of conversation is in-line with the Premise of your thread.
In point, It was Moses who introduced the prohibition of Idolatry. We cannot be certain that the Pagan beliefs ever had any such restriction, going back to Adam, and that this may be exactly why the re-introduction of Idolatry *from* the Pagans into Post-Messianic Christianity was so easily accpeted.
It was always there in the first place.
That said, the term "Idolatry" is loaded. Is anyone literally worshipping a carving, a picture, sculpture or cast metal "thing" as a God? I don't think even the weakest minded, carnal Hedonist would say that the Idol *is* God but simply acts as a frame of reference for group worship.