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How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 9258649
India
12/12/2012 08:15 AM
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How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
The world isn't about to end. You wouldn't know that if you listened to conservative talk radio (or visited GLP)


Consumers are feeling optimistic; sales are up; employment hasn't much improved but neither is it getting worse; Washington is as dysfunctional as ever; and housing is showing significant life. Not the best of times, by any means, but not the worst. Yet, for some, that very calm says a storm is brewing, one of epic and perhaps even biblical proportions. Their opinion may not be a dominant chord, but it is prominent. And it may explain in part why our public debate about fiscal cliffs, taxes and the economic future can verge so quickly into dark, deep and destructive passions.

If you've turned on talk radio to pass the time driving from store to store for Christmas shopping, you may have heard an ominous voice jarring you from otherwise anodyne thoughts about the state of economic affairs. "Something bigger and more devastating than the credit crisis of 2008 is about to come our way. ... Fail to heed this final warning at your own risk." This isn't a public-service message, though it comes with that patina. It is an ad from CritcalWarning6, which has also festooned financial websites with its banners, urging you to click and find out just what lies ahead. So I did.

We are, says Michael Lombardi, the man behind the campaign, headed for a collapse that will make what happened in 2008-09 look like a pallid warmup, plunging the U.S. and the world into a new Great Depression whose long-term effects could be much worse. The U.S. government is bankrupt, says Lombardi, and the Federal Reserve's policy of "artificially low interest rates" has reached the end of its utility. There are no arrows in the proverbial government quiver, and in conjunction with an imploding euro zone, massive underemployment and far more debt than can be paid off, we are on the precipice, a cliff much more dire than the upcoming fiscal one. Stocks will plunge well below the lows reached in March 2009, and unemployment will make Spain today appear to be a safe haven.

It's easy to discount these currents as a paranoid fringe, but the lure of bullion and the warnings of financial Armageddon aren't fringe enough to be harmless. The melodrama of CriticalWarning6 actually shields the degree to which such views are nearly mainstream in the financial community, which has more than a fair share of influential investors who believe that various degrees of implosion are likelier than not. Famed investor John Paulson has invested and lost billions in gold this year with a similar, though surely better reasoned, philosophy. Marc Faber, who pens the Doom & Gloom report from his haven in Hong Kong, is of a similar mind. And they are by no means alone.

Such views also undergird the Tea Party fervor that debt must be dealt with NOW! The fiscal cliff is a sideshow, and any delay in dealing with the debt will mean one step closer to the financial collapse that we have been holding back as effectively as that little Dutch boy with his finger in the dyke. Sooner, or later...

Conservative radio especially has been festooned with apocalyptic financial warnings, which often take the form of urging people to invest what assets they have in gold coins and gold bullion. Glenn Beck, the most prominent advocate of this approach, has been a major voice for Goldline, a company that specialized in selling gold coins as a primary investment strategy. Goldline has faced legal scrutiny in California for duping investors and charging egregious fees and commissions, but its success is testament to how easy it is to connect various dots of fear and discontent to end up with an investing philosophy that dictates placing all your liquid assets in Gold American Eagle coins.

This movement is hardly a product of our times alone. Goldline and other "gold bug" companies offering to melt your jewelry down in exchange for bullion are part of a longer legacy. It's one that began at least with a Franklin Roosevelt executive order in 1933 recalling gold coins, in effect making it illegal for an individual to own certain types of bullion and coin. That lasted until the end of the gold standard in 1974.....

[link to www.theatlantic.com]

There are real structural issues we face, but there is a difference between challenges we must confront and impending collapse. Challenges can energize and mobilize our creativity and ambition to solve and meet them; fear of collapse has a paralyzing effect, or worse ‑ it leads to a "burn, baby, burn" nihilism that knows no compromise and dismisses measured responses as meek and useless. It fuels radicalism of the most unhelpful sort rather than energizing a collective response to shared issues. And regrettably, this kind of thing is likely to be part of the mix even after Dec. 21 comes and go with nary a dent to the planet.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24522527
United States
12/12/2012 08:16 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
You are chip taker..aren't you?

lol
lmao
chuckle
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 9258649
India
12/12/2012 08:19 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
You are chip taker..aren't you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24522527


And you believe the world is going to end in 9 days..don't you?

lol
lmao
chuckle
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25708624
United States
12/12/2012 08:20 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
If all else fails accuse your accusers?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24522527
United States
12/12/2012 08:23 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
You are chip taker..aren't you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24522527


And you believe the world is going to end in 9 days..don't you?

lol
lmao
chuckle
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9258649


um...only if the puppet masters flip their secret pocylips inducing switches.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 9258649
India
12/12/2012 08:24 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
If all else fails accuse your accusers?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25708624


So far the only things that have failed are the doomsy fantasies of conspiracy theorists - from microchipping to world-is-going-to-end-in-2012s226
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 29620170
United Kingdom
12/12/2012 08:29 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
OP, Merica is broke. Like really broke. They're keeping the country afloat by suing multi-nationals (BP,HSBC) and encouraging US companies not to pay tax abroad, instead putting it all to American shareholders and banks.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 29680874
Australia
12/12/2012 08:33 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
Hey!! Theres a little chicken running past my house!!

He's yelling something!!

wait, I can almost hear what he's saying:

It sounds like "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!"

How strange!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 9258649
India
12/12/2012 08:34 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
OP, Merica is broke. Like really broke. They're keeping the country afloat by suing multi-nationals (BP,HSBC) and encouraging US companies not to pay tax abroad, instead putting it all to American shareholders and banks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29620170


America getting broke is like sea running out of sea-water. Never going to happen.

"Countries that can print their own currency can never go broke" - Economics 101
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12786780
Canada
12/12/2012 08:37 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
That republication guy Boehner said the other day " WE ARE BROKE" to the media after talking with Obama.

Obama know this but will not tell the public because the monkey's will go nuts when their EBT cards no longer have funds.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25708624
United States
12/12/2012 08:41 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
If all else fails accuse your accusers?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25708624


So far the only things that have failed are the doomsy fantasies of conspiracy theorists - from microchipping to world-is-going-to-end-in-2012s226
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9258649


Without gullible people there would be no "banking industry" and therefor no economic collapse.

You generalize about conspiracy theorists, not all conspiracy theorists prescribe doom, your title should refer to doomers.

Your agenda is transparent stupid libtard.

DON'T STOP QUESTIONING
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 9258649
India
12/12/2012 08:41 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
That republication guy Boehner said the other day " WE ARE BROKE" to the media after talking with Obama.

Obama know this but will not tell the public because the monkey's will go nuts when their EBT cards no longer have funds.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12786780


Obama also knows that you are a moron but will not tell you because he has better things to do with his time s226
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25953791
United States
12/12/2012 08:41 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
OP, Merica is broke. Like really broke. They're keeping the country afloat by suing multi-nationals (BP,HSBC) and encouraging US companies not to pay tax abroad, instead putting it all to American shareholders and banks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29620170


America getting broke is like sea running out of sea-water. Never going to happen.

"Countries that can print their own currency can never go broke" - Economics 101
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9258649


lmao
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 9258649
India
12/12/2012 08:44 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
If all else fails accuse your accusers?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25708624


So far the only things that have failed are the doomsy fantasies of conspiracy theorists - from microchipping to world-is-going-to-end-in-2012s226
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9258649


Without gullible people there would be no "banking industry" and therefor no economic collapse.

You generalize about conspiracy theorists, not all conspiracy theorists prescribe doom, your title should refer to doomers.

Your agenda is transparent stupid libtard.

DON'T STOP QUESTIONING
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25708624


I've followed conspiracy theories since a decade. Not one of hundreds of theories I've read in last ten years has come true. I guess I've earned the right to generalize about conspiracy theorists.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1044117
United States
12/12/2012 08:44 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
The "fiscal cliff" is another created gov't/media word for the bogeyman.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 25708624
United States
12/12/2012 08:55 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
If all else fails accuse your accusers?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25708624


So far the only things that have failed are the doomsy fantasies of conspiracy theorists - from microchipping to world-is-going-to-end-in-2012s226
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9258649


Without gullible people there would be no "banking industry" and therefor no economic collapse.

You generalize about conspiracy theorists, not all conspiracy theorists prescribe doom, your title should refer to doomers.

Your agenda is transparent stupid libtard.

DON'T STOP QUESTIONING
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25708624


I've followed conspiracy theories since a decade. Not one of hundreds of theories I've read in last ten years has come true. I guess I've earned the right to generalize about conspiracy theorists.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9258649


I think you have the term "conspiracy theory" mixed up with "doomsday prediction."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 771675
United States
12/12/2012 08:56 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
OP, Merica is broke. Like really broke. They're keeping the country afloat by suing multi-nationals (BP,HSBC) and encouraging US companies not to pay tax abroad, instead putting it all to American shareholders and banks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29620170


America getting broke is like sea running out of sea-water. Never going to happen.

"Countries that can print their own currency can never go broke" - Economics 101
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9258649


No, not broke, just sitting on mountains of worthless currency that no one will accept in trade, anymore. Lots and lots of "money". Whoopee!

This is BEGINNING to happen. It might take 10 years to run its course (or possibly much less). But it is happening.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 771675
United States
12/12/2012 08:57 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
There are real structural issues we face, but there is a difference between challenges we must confront and impending collapse. Challenges can energize and mobilize our creativity and ambition to solve and meet them; fear of collapse has a paralyzing effect, or worse -- it leads to a "burn, baby, burn" nihilism that knows no compromise and dismisses measured responses as meek and useless. It fuels radicalism of the most unhelpful sort rather than energizing a collective response to shared issues. And regrettably, this kind of thing is likely to be part of the mix even after Dec. 21 comes and go with nary a dent to the planet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9258649


Very good point, actually.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19755366
Canada
12/12/2012 08:58 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
Right because GLP waited until the eleventh hour to pass their 2012 budget, and used the election as an excuse to postpone any actual work.

This thread is complete bs.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 9258649
India
12/12/2012 09:05 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
OP, Merica is broke. Like really broke. They're keeping the country afloat by suing multi-nationals (BP,HSBC) and encouraging US companies not to pay tax abroad, instead putting it all to American shareholders and banks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29620170


America getting broke is like sea running out of sea-water. Never going to happen.

"Countries that can print their own currency can never go broke" - Economics 101
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9258649


No, not broke, just sitting on mountains of worthless currency that no one will accept in trade, anymore. Lots and lots of "money". Whoopee!

This is BEGINNING to happen. It might take 10 years to run its course (or possibly much less). But it is happening.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 771675


If USD was worthless, it wouldn't rise against most currencies. Check the dollar index..DXY is almost 80..up from the low of 70 in 2008 (presuming you know what DXY is)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13158115
United States
12/12/2012 09:10 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
The "fiscal cliff" is another created gov't/media word for the bogeyman.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1044117


Exactly. Is this leftist doom?? Who gives a shit really, lets go over. We won't die. It's preferable to what Obama wants
Anonymous Cowherder
FEMA Region IX.

User ID: 28230270
United States
12/12/2012 11:35 AM

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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
deflection.

"It was those other guys, not us. we 'tried'."
I'm a Libertarian Constitutionalist.

I don't give a shit what you do with your own life, whether you make it a success or a failure, that is the outcome of the choices you make, but please take responsibility for yourself and don't make ME pay for YOUR choices and we're all good.

Repeal the 17th Amendment and the Apportionment Act of 1911!

Thread: First steps down the road to a return to the Constitutional Republic that we were intended to be.

Restore the Republic.

It's a flower, not something to be feared.

cow - Moo!
*HEISENBERG*

User ID: 28152425
United States
12/12/2012 11:42 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
I don't see how you can deny math. It's simple math. 16 trillion debt(that we know of) growing daily. We can barely pay the interest on that.

It is true though, as long as we can print money, we can prop up the broken system, but what happens when we are not the reserve any longer? Do you know what will happen when we print money then?

I understand the need to question everything, especially conspiracy theories.....but how can you try and make a case against math?

You can take issue with Chem trails, moonlanding "hoax", 12-21-12, illuminati, but you can't argue against math. Math is a constant.
Elsabiades....
User ID: 28025858
United States
12/12/2012 11:56 AM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
Throw the damned television set out the freaking window...WE NEED THE CLIFF TO RATCHET BACK SPENDING....the only people bitching are the Wall Street Zionists...bump
PhennommennonnModerator
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12/12/2012 11:57 AM

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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
You are chip taker..aren't you?

lol
lmao
chuckle
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24522527


bwahahahah ^^^^^^ dude....best come back ive seen in all 2013 to date. WIN.
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"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you've heard a lot here today and I won't try to go back over it all. But you have to go back in that room and make some decisions and there is one thing I want to make very clear to you before you do. I'm not trying to convince you that you should like what Larry Flynt does. I don't like what he does. But what I do like is... that I live in a country... where you and I can make that decision for ourselves. I like that I live in a country where I can pick up Hustler magazine... read it if I want... or throw it in the trash, if that's where I think it belongs. Or better yet I can express my opinion by not buying it. I like that right. I care about it. And you should care about it, too... because we live in a free country. We say that a lot, but sometimes we forget what that means, so listen again. We live in a free country. That is a powerful idea. That's a magnificent way to live. But there is a price for that freedom, which is that sometimes... we have to tolerate things that we don't necessarily like. So go back in that room... where you are free to think whatever you want to think... about Larry Flynt and Hustler magazine. But then ask yourselves if you want to make that decision for the rest of us... because the freedom that everyone in this room enjoys... is, in a very real way, in your hands. If we start throwing up walls against what some of us think is obscene... we may wake up one morning and realize... that walls have been thrown upin places we never expected... and we can't see anythingor... do anything. And that's not freedom. That is not freedom. So, be careful. Thank you."
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Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 9258649
India
12/12/2012 12:04 PM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
You are chip taker..aren't you?

lol
lmao
chuckle
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24522527


bwahahahah ^^^^^^ dude....best come back ive seen in all 2013 to date. WIN.
 Quoting: Phennommennonn


yes.. yeahsure good comeback for a conspiracy site, but in real world such a lame retort would only invite ridicule tounge
thetrickybigguy
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User ID: 29699734
United States
12/12/2012 12:06 PM

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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
I don't see how you can deny math. It's simple math. 16 trillion debt(that we know of) growing daily. We can barely pay the interest on that.

It is true though, as long as we can print money, we can prop up the broken system, but what happens when we are not the reserve any longer? Do you know what will happen when we print money then?

I understand the need to question everything, especially conspiracy theories.....but how can you try and make a case against math?

You can take issue with Chem trails, moonlanding "hoax", 12-21-12, illuminati, but you can't argue against math. Math is a constant.
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


5 * post and nothin but the truth....
Falling down is a part of life, getting back up is living. ~

Life is about choices, you get to make them each and every day of your life. ~

Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.~

Only in America... do we use the word 'politics' to describe the process so well: 'Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'bloodsucking creatures'.~

“When a government is dependent for money upon the bankers, they and not the government leaders control the nation. This is because the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Financiers are without patriotism and without decency.”
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/12/2012 12:08 PM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
I love. We deficit spend and mismanage our country and economy for 50 plus fucking years, and now all of a suddenly it's conspiracy theorists fault. Fucking idiot
thetrickybigguy
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12/12/2012 12:08 PM

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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
You are chip taker..aren't you?

lol
lmao
chuckle
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24522527


bwahahahah ^^^^^^ dude....best come back ive seen in all 2013 to date. WIN.
 Quoting: Phennommennonn


2013?

but it's still 2012...

i know you live in a time warp.

cruise
Falling down is a part of life, getting back up is living. ~

Life is about choices, you get to make them each and every day of your life. ~

Capitalization is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.~

Only in America... do we use the word 'politics' to describe the process so well: 'Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'bloodsucking creatures'.~

“When a government is dependent for money upon the bankers, they and not the government leaders control the nation. This is because the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Financiers are without patriotism and without decency.”
Mrbillybadass

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United States
12/12/2012 12:11 PM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
OP, Merica is broke. Like really broke. They're keeping the country afloat by suing multi-nationals (BP,HSBC) and encouraging US companies not to pay tax abroad, instead putting it all to American shareholders and banks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29620170


America getting broke is like sea running out of sea-water. Never going to happen.

"Countries that can print their own currency can never go broke" - Economics 101
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9258649


O.o....
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 9258649
India
12/12/2012 12:15 PM
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Re: How Conspiracy Theorists Are Steering US Toward the Fiscal Cliff
I don't see how you can deny math. It's simple math. 16 trillion debt(that we know of) growing daily. We can barely pay the interest on that.

It is true though, as long as we can print money, we can prop up the broken system, but what happens when we are not the reserve any longer? Do you know what will happen when we print money then?

I understand the need to question everything, especially conspiracy theories.....but how can you try and make a case against math?

You can take issue with Chem trails, moonlanding "hoax", 12-21-12, illuminati, but you can't argue against math. Math is a constant.
 Quoting: *HEISENBERG*


We are not discussing maths, my friend, but economics. In economics, the amount of debt is always considered in relation to the GDP of a country. In case of US, the GDP is also over $16 trillion giving a public debt : gdp ratio of 1:1 or 100% which while high is not astronomical.

Consider that Japan has debt:GDP ratio of over 200 %, for nearly two decades, but it hasn't been bankrupted or even faced problem of not being able to pay it off. Also consider that dabt:gdp ratio of US during post WW2 was as high as 146%, yet its economy continued booming for several decades.

First of all, it is unlikely that USD will stop being reserve currency for many more years because all other currencies of the world are far weaker than dollar, including Euro. But even in the unlikely event that USD stops being reserve currency, it won't make much difference. After all, Japanese yen is not a reserve currency, yet it hasn't been bankrupted by its high debt.

News