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BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/12/2012 10:35 AM
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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Planned collapse. They can make just as much money during a crash bear market as they can in a bull market. They can bet on a collapse and make huge money, as they then go ahead and let it crash.
DarthDickheadus:Ameri​canSith

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12/12/2012 10:52 AM
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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
The Baltic Dry is meaningless.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29699502


You base this upon what knowledge of global financial systems?

books
(GLP aka American Jedi)

Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth.
Kenny Powers

If you steal the dreams of others long enough, sooner or later you'll end up in a nightmare.
American Jedi

Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.
Albert Einstein

Satis Eloquentiae, Sapientiae Parum....

"The last of the old?"

"No, the first of the new."
DarthDickheadus:Ameri​canSith

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Planned collapse. They can make just as much money during a crash bear market as they can in a bull market. They can bet on a collapse and make huge money, as they then go ahead and let it crash.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25148952


Money isn't relevant when the barbarians are at the gate.
(GLP aka American Jedi)

Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth.
Kenny Powers

If you steal the dreams of others long enough, sooner or later you'll end up in a nightmare.
American Jedi

Intellectuals solve problems, geniuses prevent them.
Albert Einstein

Satis Eloquentiae, Sapientiae Parum....

"The last of the old?"

"No, the first of the new."
Anonymous Coward
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12/12/2012 10:57 AM
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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Oh no,

the rigged high frequency plunge protected stock market is going to collapse. NO

The bond market pumped up by the federal reserve will collapse. no

The buying of U.S. treasuries is going to collapse, um no, not as long as the Fed is buying most of them.

The housing market will collapse, nope, not with the Fed buying mortgage backed securities.

This might effect the libor market, nope, it's rigged

This will effect the amount of money government spends, nope, it doesn't matter how much they spend, they can spend any amount and call it a deficit.

So, the question is, when does reality finally catch up with everything.

If you can answer than one, I would be interested to know.

When does this make believe fake paper currency collapse?

When does the rigged market collapse?

When does the rigging of the libor market cease?

When do derivatives come crashing down, when they are backed by nothing?

When does this come to an end?
 Quoting: GodFrequency


We are obviously in the final stages for the dollar, as the last bubble to pop will be the sovereign bond market.

But, your question is to the point, I think they can sort of control this train wreck sort of like controlled demolition, but when the final stages of collapse begin it will pass out of their monetary control, then they will rely on gubment force to maintain control, mao style.

There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit (debt) expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit (debt) expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. Mises.
Anonymous Coward
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12/12/2012 11:13 AM
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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
I admit I don't know shit .. that said, I do recall The Drake mentioning to watch the BDI many months ago. So, who knows .. : P
Zombietard

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12/12/2012 11:16 AM
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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
doom on!!

5a5a5a
 Quoting: SteamrolledGobias


ohyeahchorus
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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12/12/2012 11:25 AM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Oh no,

the rigged high frequency plunge protected stock market is going to collapse. NO

The bond market pumped up by the federal reserve will collapse. no

The buying of U.S. treasuries is going to collapse, um no, not as long as the Fed is buying most of them.

The housing market will collapse, nope, not with the Fed buying mortgage backed securities.

This might effect the libor market, nope, it's rigged

This will effect the amount of money government spends, nope, it doesn't matter how much they spend, they can spend any amount and call it a deficit.

So, the question is, when does reality finally catch up with everything.

If you can answer than one, I would be interested to know.

When does this make believe fake paper currency collapse?

When does the rigged market collapse?

When does the rigging of the libor market cease?

When do derivatives come crashing down, when they are backed by nothing?

When does this come to an end?
 Quoting: GodFrequency


We are obviously in the final stages for the dollar, as the last bubble to pop will be the sovereign bond market.

But, your question is to the point, I think they can sort of control this train wreck sort of like controlled demolition, but when the final stages of collapse begin it will pass out of their monetary control, then they will rely on gubment force to maintain control, mao style.

There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit (debt) expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit (debt) expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. Mises.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


You're spot on, but I would argue they will seem to lose control, but they will never actually lose control.

If you look at the new BASEL III accounting rules coming out, it is plain as day that they are engineering a crisis worse even than 2008 (2008 was BASEL II, Mark to Market accounting, which also froze credit around the world).

There is a lot of evidence out there to suggest that they will allow fiat currencies to collapse, only to bring back in currencies backed by baskets of commodities; gold, proven energy reserves, silver, real estate, etc., and since of course they own 90% of these commodities, they will still be sitting in the drivers seat of this new monetary coup). This is just part of the debt cycle, a cycle that has been extended by almost fifty years due to dramatic growth after WWII, the population of the world has most likely peaked, food production is declining, and energy production has also peaked and begun to roll-over...it's time to contract the money supply to match the other curves, re-set, and start a new phase...

But you're not going to like this new declining phase...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 12/12/2012 11:28 AM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 961432
United States
12/12/2012 11:36 AM
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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Oh no,

the rigged high frequency plunge protected stock market is going to collapse. NO

The bond market pumped up by the federal reserve will collapse. no

The buying of U.S. treasuries is going to collapse, um no, not as long as the Fed is buying most of them.

The housing market will collapse, nope, not with the Fed buying mortgage backed securities.

This might effect the libor market, nope, it's rigged

This will effect the amount of money government spends, nope, it doesn't matter how much they spend, they can spend any amount and call it a deficit.

So, the question is, when does reality finally catch up with everything.

If you can answer than one, I would be interested to know.

When does this make believe fake paper currency collapse?

When does the rigged market collapse?

When does the rigging of the libor market cease?

When do derivatives come crashing down, when they are backed by nothing?

When does this come to an end?
 Quoting: GodFrequency


We are obviously in the final stages for the dollar, as the last bubble to pop will be the sovereign bond market.

But, your question is to the point, I think they can sort of control this train wreck sort of like controlled demolition, but when the final stages of collapse begin it will pass out of their monetary control, then they will rely on gubment force to maintain control, mao style.

There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit (debt) expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit (debt) expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. Mises.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


You're spot on, but I would argue they will seem to lose control, but they will never actually lose control.

If you look at the new BASEL III accounting rules coming out, it is plain as day that they are engineering a crisis worse even than 2008 (2008 was BASEL II, Mark to Market accounting, which also froze credit around the world).

There is a lot of evidence out there to suggest that they will allow fiat currencies to collapse, only to bring back in currencies backed by baskets of commodities; gold, proven energy reserves, silver, real estate, etc., and since of course they own 90% of these commodities, they will still be sitting in the drivers seat of this new monetary coup). This is just part of the debt cycle, a cycle that has been extended by almost fifty years due to dramatic growth after WWII, the population of the world has most likely peaked, food production is declining, and energy production has also peaked and begun to roll-over...it's time to contract the money supply to match the other curves, re-set, and start a new phase...

But you're not going to like this new declining phase...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


I see you are thinking way ahead, ahead of 99%. I agree they will need to engineer a collapse, for the "controlled demotion" I just think that their probability of success isn't as great as they anticipate.

The dollar has and is continuing to function as the world's reserve currency and all bills of credit are denominated in $$. That system has taken generations to develop for global trade, everything is based on a functioning bills of credit system and a clearing house for those bills. The dollar or a fiat currency unit simply replaced bills of credit that were maturing into gold bullion. But a fiat currency unit is a horrible substitute for gold as it is necessary to assume the standard unit of account is constant to calculate the future value of a bill of credit, a fiat currency unit is non-linear and in no way shape or form a constant value. They have gotten away with this for 40 years simply due to the toxic waste pile that has been accumulating, the world's or global debt mountain.

Even a new fiat currency supposedly backed by a basket of commodities including gold like the SDR will not function as the dollar has functioned replacing bills of credit that matured into gold bullion, since its value is still non-linear to enrich the groups in control of its issuance (BIS whatever).

Only a free market, and a unit of account chosen by the free market can establish what can serve as a standard unit of account for global trade, it took thousands of years for that unit to mature or evolve into gold bullion.

What you are witnessing is Peak Hubris amongst the aggregated wealth concentrations of the world, sort of like a modern day Tower of Babel. Only chaos can replace this system as that is what has been sown.
shadasonic
viracocha says live well

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12/12/2012 11:40 AM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
OLD film, OP ! Remember seeing it before .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29216719


Yes, film is old - that is the point.

The 8% overnight plunge was LAST night (12/12/12). The film is highlighting what happens when shippers do not get paid enough to afford gas AND when demand is less than supply.
 Quoting: 2012Portal


Good job OP,some will argue no matter what. The baltic dry index is one of the first indicators of serious trouble. My world econ professor drove that message home,and I still check it regularly after all this time

Last Edited by sonic tonic on 12/12/2012 11:42 AM
It is understanding that transforms us, not merely the desire for change, and until a man obtains a thorough understanding of the nature of evil and so becomes equipped to respond wisely to its challenges, he will necessarily be detrimentally affected by it.
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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United States
12/12/2012 12:19 PM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Oh no,

the rigged high frequency plunge protected stock market is going to collapse. NO

The bond market pumped up by the federal reserve will collapse. no

The buying of U.S. treasuries is going to collapse, um no, not as long as the Fed is buying most of them.

The housing market will collapse, nope, not with the Fed buying mortgage backed securities.

This might effect the libor market, nope, it's rigged

This will effect the amount of money government spends, nope, it doesn't matter how much they spend, they can spend any amount and call it a deficit.

So, the question is, when does reality finally catch up with everything.

If you can answer than one, I would be interested to know.

When does this make believe fake paper currency collapse?

When does the rigged market collapse?

When does the rigging of the libor market cease?

When do derivatives come crashing down, when they are backed by nothing?

When does this come to an end?
 Quoting: GodFrequency


We are obviously in the final stages for the dollar, as the last bubble to pop will be the sovereign bond market.

But, your question is to the point, I think they can sort of control this train wreck sort of like controlled demolition, but when the final stages of collapse begin it will pass out of their monetary control, then they will rely on gubment force to maintain control, mao style.

There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit (debt) expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit (debt) expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. Mises.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


You're spot on, but I would argue they will seem to lose control, but they will never actually lose control.

If you look at the new BASEL III accounting rules coming out, it is plain as day that they are engineering a crisis worse even than 2008 (2008 was BASEL II, Mark to Market accounting, which also froze credit around the world).

There is a lot of evidence out there to suggest that they will allow fiat currencies to collapse, only to bring back in currencies backed by baskets of commodities; gold, proven energy reserves, silver, real estate, etc., and since of course they own 90% of these commodities, they will still be sitting in the drivers seat of this new monetary coup). This is just part of the debt cycle, a cycle that has been extended by almost fifty years due to dramatic growth after WWII, the population of the world has most likely peaked, food production is declining, and energy production has also peaked and begun to roll-over...it's time to contract the money supply to match the other curves, re-set, and start a new phase...

But you're not going to like this new declining phase...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


I see you are thinking way ahead, ahead of 99%. I agree they will need to engineer a collapse, for the "controlled demotion" I just think that their probability of success isn't as great as they anticipate.

The dollar has and is continuing to function as the world's reserve currency and all bills of credit are denominated in $$. That system has taken generations to develop for global trade, everything is based on a functioning bills of credit system and a clearing house for those bills. The dollar or a fiat currency unit simply replaced bills of credit that were maturing into gold bullion. But a fiat currency unit is a horrible substitute for gold as it is necessary to assume the standard unit of account is constant to calculate the future value of a bill of credit, a fiat currency unit is non-linear and in no way shape or form a constant value. They have gotten away with this for 40 years simply due to the toxic waste pile that has been accumulating, the world's or global debt mountain.

Even a new fiat currency supposedly backed by a basket of commodities including gold like the SDR will not function as the dollar has functioned replacing bills of credit that matured into gold bullion, since its value is still non-linear to enrich the groups in control of its issuance (BIS whatever).

Only a free market, and a unit of account chosen by the free market can establish what can serve as a standard unit of account for global trade, it took thousands of years for that unit to mature or evolve into gold bullion.

What you are witnessing is Peak Hubris amongst the aggregated wealth concentrations of the world, sort of like a modern day Tower of Babel. Only chaos can replace this system as that is what has been sown.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


I agree 100% with everything your saying, except to the point that the reason their plan will most likely succeed, is because people have so little understanding of the real economic and monetary system we have in place.

Quite simply put, they will beg the very men that looted and collapsed the system in the first place to save that same derilict system. And when TPTB come riding in with a solution to the very problem they created, and when they rape every man woman and child for 50% or more of their net worth in the process, the people of the world will get on their knee's to thank them for saving a pitence of their 401k or their pension.

It's stunning, yes, but you know it's true.

The Keynesian Monetary/Economic system they have developed, whether you like it or not, you must admit, is criminal genius refined to an art form...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
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United States
12/12/2012 12:28 PM
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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
...


We are obviously in the final stages for the dollar, as the last bubble to pop will be the sovereign bond market.

But, your question is to the point, I think they can sort of control this train wreck sort of like controlled demolition, but when the final stages of collapse begin it will pass out of their monetary control, then they will rely on gubment force to maintain control, mao style.

There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit (debt) expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit (debt) expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved. Mises.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


You're spot on, but I would argue they will seem to lose control, but they will never actually lose control.

If you look at the new BASEL III accounting rules coming out, it is plain as day that they are engineering a crisis worse even than 2008 (2008 was BASEL II, Mark to Market accounting, which also froze credit around the world).

There is a lot of evidence out there to suggest that they will allow fiat currencies to collapse, only to bring back in currencies backed by baskets of commodities; gold, proven energy reserves, silver, real estate, etc., and since of course they own 90% of these commodities, they will still be sitting in the drivers seat of this new monetary coup). This is just part of the debt cycle, a cycle that has been extended by almost fifty years due to dramatic growth after WWII, the population of the world has most likely peaked, food production is declining, and energy production has also peaked and begun to roll-over...it's time to contract the money supply to match the other curves, re-set, and start a new phase...

But you're not going to like this new declining phase...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


I see you are thinking way ahead, ahead of 99%. I agree they will need to engineer a collapse, for the "controlled demotion" I just think that their probability of success isn't as great as they anticipate.

The dollar has and is continuing to function as the world's reserve currency and all bills of credit are denominated in $$. That system has taken generations to develop for global trade, everything is based on a functioning bills of credit system and a clearing house for those bills. The dollar or a fiat currency unit simply replaced bills of credit that were maturing into gold bullion. But a fiat currency unit is a horrible substitute for gold as it is necessary to assume the standard unit of account is constant to calculate the future value of a bill of credit, a fiat currency unit is non-linear and in no way shape or form a constant value. They have gotten away with this for 40 years simply due to the toxic waste pile that has been accumulating, the world's or global debt mountain.

Even a new fiat currency supposedly backed by a basket of commodities including gold like the SDR will not function as the dollar has functioned replacing bills of credit that matured into gold bullion, since its value is still non-linear to enrich the groups in control of its issuance (BIS whatever).

Only a free market, and a unit of account chosen by the free market can establish what can serve as a standard unit of account for global trade, it took thousands of years for that unit to mature or evolve into gold bullion.

What you are witnessing is Peak Hubris amongst the aggregated wealth concentrations of the world, sort of like a modern day Tower of Babel. Only chaos can replace this system as that is what has been sown.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


I agree 100% with everything your saying, except to the point that the reason their plan will most likely succeed, is because people have so little understanding of the real economic and monetary system we have in place.

Quite simply put, they will beg the very men that looted and collapsed the system in the first place to save that same derilict system. And when TPTB come riding in with a solution to the very problem they created, and when they rape every man woman and child for 50% or more of their net worth in the process, the people of the world will get on their knee's to thank them for saving a pitence of their 401k or their pension.

It's stunning, yes, but you know it's true.

The Keynesian Monetary/Economic system they have developed, whether you like it or not, you must admit, is criminal genius refined to an art form...
 Quoting: Saddletramp

I wouldn't be so sure, I get surprised every now and then by the "average" guy or gal on the street. What happens to all those loans, and all that debt, are people going to pull an Iceland and go rogue, or are they going to be able to upload all that debt into a new currency while wiping out their own. Perhaps if they shut down the internet, and don't tell people what they are doing. But hell, if all debt is being wiped out that they owe, you better believe I'm no longer paying my make believe house payment, or my make believe car payment.
waterlily

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12/12/2012 12:47 PM
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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Unless you have a brain like a sparrow you will remember this thread over and over for the last four years or more. Some drooling retard posts THE BALTIC DRY PLUNGING WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE every month. At this point the Baltic Dry has plunged into the center of the earth.bsflagbsflagbsflag
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29242845


It's an indicator, not were all going to die prediction! What is true, is that it was the biggest plunge SINCE 2008, which really says a lot. A lot more than waving a bsflag, imho.
 Quoting: 2012Portal


It says that global economic recovery is a fiction for at least a quarter or two. This means US, Europe and the Orient.

It is not BS. OP is right on.
*********** WaterLily ***********
" Do I dare
Disturb the universe?"
-- T. S. Elliot, Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock

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“We are as ignorant of the meaning of the dragon as we are of the meaning of the universe.”
-- Jorge Luis Borges
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Pompey made his preparations for the war at the end of the winter, entered upon it at the commencement of spring,
and finished it in the middle of the summer."
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Renegade (Me too)

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12/12/2012 01:04 PM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
The Baltic Dry is meaningless.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29699502


I've read the BDI is the best indicator of global economy.
Who is John Galt?
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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12/12/2012 01:08 PM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
...


You're spot on, but I would argue they will seem to lose control, but they will never actually lose control.

If you look at the new BASEL III accounting rules coming out, it is plain as day that they are engineering a crisis worse even than 2008 (2008 was BASEL II, Mark to Market accounting, which also froze credit around the world).

There is a lot of evidence out there to suggest that they will allow fiat currencies to collapse, only to bring back in currencies backed by baskets of commodities; gold, proven energy reserves, silver, real estate, etc., and since of course they own 90% of these commodities, they will still be sitting in the drivers seat of this new monetary coup). This is just part of the debt cycle, a cycle that has been extended by almost fifty years due to dramatic growth after WWII, the population of the world has most likely peaked, food production is declining, and energy production has also peaked and begun to roll-over...it's time to contract the money supply to match the other curves, re-set, and start a new phase...

But you're not going to like this new declining phase...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


I see you are thinking way ahead, ahead of 99%. I agree they will need to engineer a collapse, for the "controlled demotion" I just think that their probability of success isn't as great as they anticipate.

The dollar has and is continuing to function as the world's reserve currency and all bills of credit are denominated in $$. That system has taken generations to develop for global trade, everything is based on a functioning bills of credit system and a clearing house for those bills. The dollar or a fiat currency unit simply replaced bills of credit that were maturing into gold bullion. But a fiat currency unit is a horrible substitute for gold as it is necessary to assume the standard unit of account is constant to calculate the future value of a bill of credit, a fiat currency unit is non-linear and in no way shape or form a constant value. They have gotten away with this for 40 years simply due to the toxic waste pile that has been accumulating, the world's or global debt mountain.

Even a new fiat currency supposedly backed by a basket of commodities including gold like the SDR will not function as the dollar has functioned replacing bills of credit that matured into gold bullion, since its value is still non-linear to enrich the groups in control of its issuance (BIS whatever).

Only a free market, and a unit of account chosen by the free market can establish what can serve as a standard unit of account for global trade, it took thousands of years for that unit to mature or evolve into gold bullion.

What you are witnessing is Peak Hubris amongst the aggregated wealth concentrations of the world, sort of like a modern day Tower of Babel. Only chaos can replace this system as that is what has been sown.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


I agree 100% with everything your saying, except to the point that the reason their plan will most likely succeed, is because people have so little understanding of the real economic and monetary system we have in place.

Quite simply put, they will beg the very men that looted and collapsed the system in the first place to save that same derilict system. And when TPTB come riding in with a solution to the very problem they created, and when they rape every man woman and child for 50% or more of their net worth in the process, the people of the world will get on their knee's to thank them for saving a pitence of their 401k or their pension.

It's stunning, yes, but you know it's true.

The Keynesian Monetary/Economic system they have developed, whether you like it or not, you must admit, is criminal genius refined to an art form...
 Quoting: Saddletramp

I wouldn't be so sure, I get surprised every now and then by the "average" guy or gal on the street. What happens to all those loans, and all that debt, are people going to pull an Iceland and go rogue, or are they going to be able to upload all that debt into a new currency while wiping out their own. Perhaps if they shut down the internet, and don't tell people what they are doing. But hell, if all debt is being wiped out that they owe, you better believe I'm no longer paying my make believe house payment, or my make believe car payment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29706176


All I can say to that is, I hope you're right! But whatever system they pick is going to be a massive upheaval of the global economy.

2012/2013 is shaping up to be one for the history books...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Renegade (Me too)

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12/12/2012 01:09 PM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
The 8% plunge has to do with actions the Fed will take today. America will lose it's AAA status and our currency will be shit. Hyperinflation will follow and trading partners will not want any of our dollars so not willing to give up any real goods for our worthless dollars.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25148952


This means our silver will go up! Right?

Damn, just spiked to $33.68. Maybe today is my day. 12/12/12
Who is John Galt?
Renegade (Me too)

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12/12/2012 01:10 PM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Baltic Dry Index is also a precursor index of credit availability...

Basel III accounting rules for banks are supposed to go into effect next year. This looks a lot like when the Basel II "Mark to Market" rule went into effect in 2008...

A correlation perhaps...

In a world where currencies are derivatives of debt, credit is essential for economic stability...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


trans_sign
Who is John Galt?
Anonymous Coward
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12/12/2012 01:27 PM
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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Don't worry. Be happy. Obama has been re-elected so nothing could possibly go wrong now.
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 812002
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12/12/2012 01:30 PM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Baltic Dry Index is also a precursor index of credit availability...

Basel III accounting rules for banks are supposed to go into effect next year. This looks a lot like when the Basel II "Mark to Market" rule went into effect in 2008...

A correlation perhaps...

In a world where currencies are derivatives of debt, credit is essential for economic stability...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


trans_sign
 Quoting: Renegade (Me too)


At the beginning of 2008 new accounting rules called Basel II (Basel is the Bank of International Settlements in Basel Switzerland) went into effect. These rules were called "Mark to Market", and they forced banks around the world to use Market price numbers on their balance sheets instead of total value, meaning they had to use the payoff numbers as of that day for Mortgages and other loans, instead of the mortgage or business loan with the interest accrual already figured in, on their balance sheet. This applied to all loans and all securities. This cut the value of some banks balance sheets almost in half overnight, and was the real reason behind the credit crisis of the summer and fall of 2008. Credit actually began to dry up for consumers and small business' in 2007.

Jump to today. New accounting rules are slated to go into effect for 2013, these are called Basel III. Basically, these rules will do two things, they will severely limit (well below todays limitations) leverage (debt) banks can have, and also they will create a special "Super" asset class for "Liquid" commodities, equities, and securities. Also, banks will now be forced to keep enough of these "Liquid" commodities in reserve to provide for one months operations if all Credit to them is cut off.

So what do you think is going to happen to the value of these "Liquid" commodities once banks are forced to go out and buy them up to keep these reserves in place???

And what do you thinkk is going to happen to banks when they have to "De-leverage" their balance sheets to get within Basel III standards???

Assuming these rules go into effect as they are currently known, it will create a credit crunch around the globe that will make 2008 look like a mild recession...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 12/12/2012 01:34 PM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
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12/12/2012 01:37 PM
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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Did you read the comments at the link? Those guys are witty!
Renegade (Me too)

User ID: 28510817
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12/12/2012 01:49 PM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Baltic Dry Index is also a precursor index of credit availability...

Basel III accounting rules for banks are supposed to go into effect next year. This looks a lot like when the Basel II "Mark to Market" rule went into effect in 2008...

A correlation perhaps...

In a world where currencies are derivatives of debt, credit is essential for economic stability...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


trans_sign
 Quoting: Renegade (Me too)


At the beginning of 2008 new accounting rules called Basel II (Basel is the Bank of International Settlements in Basel Switzerland) went into effect. These rules were called "Mark to Market", and they forced banks around the world to use Market price numbers on their balance sheets instead of total value, meaning they had to use the payoff numbers as of that day for Mortgages and other loans, instead of the mortgage or business loan with the interest accrual already figured in, on their balance sheet. This applied to all loans and all securities. This cut the value of some banks balance sheets almost in half overnight, and was the real reason behind the credit crisis of the summer and fall of 2008. Credit actually began to dry up for consumers and small business' in 2007.

Jump to today. New accounting rules are slated to go into effect for 2013, these are called Basel III. Basically, these rules will do two things, they will severely limit (well below todays limitations) leverage (debt) banks can have, and also they will create a special "Super" asset class for "Liquid" commodities, equities, and securities. Also, banks will now be forced to keep enough of these "Liquid" commodities in reserve to provide for one months operations if all Credit to them is cut off.

So what do you think is going to happen to the value of these "Liquid" commodities once banks are forced to go out and buy them up to keep these reserves in place???

And what do you thinkk is going to happen to banks when they have to "De-leverage" their balance sheets to get within Basel III standards???

Assuming these rules go into effect as they are currently known, it will create a credit crunch around the globe that will make 2008 look like a mild recession...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Thanks saddle. So Basel II is more realistic than its predecessor; and Basel III will be more realistic than Basel II.

The reality is banks really do not have any liquidity and will be exposed?

Last Edited by Renegade () on 12/12/2012 01:52 PM
Who is John Galt?
moses767

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12/12/2012 01:58 PM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Most people don't understand what the Baltic Dry means. But it means that ships that carry furniture and washer machines and the like are decreasing in its volume. Plus, most of all, it means that there is less food and wheat and corn and food in these shipping containers, which means that food will run out faster and is not being stored, it think!! Let me get back to you on this, as more investigation is needed!!

Actually this is a very scary occurence; as we will have less food stored for famines and wars and all kinds of things. I would strongly advise you to get to know your Lord and Saviour soon!!

Last Edited by moses767 on 12/12/2012 02:17 PM
Burt Gummer

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12/12/2012 02:01 PM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Thanks for the pinski.


Baltic Dry Index-Down by 19% in Last 12 sessions
:
[link to www.anirudhsethireport.com]


Wow, down close to 20% within three weeks time!
 Quoting: 2012Portal


VERY important info..Lack of shipping means lack of trade and future orders..
 Quoting: THE INQUISADOR


Obama and his Marxist minions are pleased with their results.

opship

Last Edited by Useless Cookie Eater on 12/12/2012 02:11 PM
2012Portal (OP)
2012Portal - The Mayan Calendar

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Netherlands
12/12/2012 02:13 PM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
OLD film, OP ! Remember seeing it before .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29216719


Yes, film is old - that is the point.

The 8% overnight plunge was LAST night (12/12/12). The film is highlighting what happens when shippers do not get paid enough to afford gas AND when demand is less than supply.
 Quoting: 2012Portal


Good job OP,some will argue no matter what. The baltic dry index is one of the first indicators of serious trouble. My world econ professor drove that message home,and I still check it regularly after all this time
 Quoting: shadasonic


Thank you - this is not a good sign and great input from many here.
Mayan Calendar and 2012-
From the love of power to the power of Love -
[link to 2012portal.myfeedportal.com]
Anonymous Coward
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12/12/2012 02:48 PM
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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
So do you all think shipping stays as high as the few months before the holidays? Do you think product demand is as high in Jan, Feb as Oct-Dec?

It makes perfect sense that it is dropping.

But you are all welcome to ignore this post.
2012Portal (OP)
2012Portal - The Mayan Calendar

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Netherlands
12/12/2012 03:23 PM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Baltic Dry Index is also a precursor index of credit availability...

Basel III accounting rules for banks are supposed to go into effect next year. This looks a lot like when the Basel II "Mark to Market" rule went into effect in 2008...

A correlation perhaps...

In a world where currencies are derivatives of debt, credit is essential for economic stability...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


trans_sign
 Quoting: Renegade (Me too)


At the beginning of 2008 new accounting rules called Basel II (Basel is the Bank of International Settlements in Basel Switzerland) went into effect. These rules were called "Mark to Market", and they forced banks around the world to use Market price numbers on their balance sheets instead of total value, meaning they had to use the payoff numbers as of that day for Mortgages and other loans, instead of the mortgage or business loan with the interest accrual already figured in, on their balance sheet. This applied to all loans and all securities. This cut the value of some banks balance sheets almost in half overnight, and was the real reason behind the credit crisis of the summer and fall of 2008. Credit actually began to dry up for consumers and small business' in 2007.

Jump to today. New accounting rules are slated to go into effect for 2013, these are called Basel III. Basically, these rules will do two things, they will severely limit (well below todays limitations) leverage (debt) banks can have, and also they will create a special "Super" asset class for "Liquid" commodities, equities, and securities. Also, banks will now be forced to keep enough of these "Liquid" commodities in reserve to provide for one months operations if all Credit to them is cut off.

So what do you think is going to happen to the value of these "Liquid" commodities once banks are forced to go out and buy them up to keep these reserves in place???

And what do you thinkk is going to happen to banks when they have to "De-leverage" their balance sheets to get within Basel III standards???

Assuming these rules go into effect as they are currently known, it will create a credit crunch around the globe that will make 2008 look like a mild recession...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Excellent point. That Mark to Market was the biggest hoodwink going and only the big players were invited to play. If only You, I or a small shop down the street had the same set of rules in an ever tightening "real" economy.

Sure, they write this off as trying to control the fall, but in effect is all it did is blow the balloon larger. Now when it bursts, it will be doing so on a much weaker footing than in 2009. Bankers continued to fill their pockets, literally, while having their cake and eating it too at that, plus with the new accounting laws. The bankers are used to insane profits, with insane rules of play. Well, what rules? Afterall, when you fund weapons, warlords and war, morals are not a big part of the job description.

For instance - The LIBOR Banking Scandal
[link to newsusa.myfeedportal.com]

Biggest financial crime potentially EVER and it is more-or-less swept under the carpet. Granted, 99% do not understand it and are so bogged down with their mortgages, car loans and iPhones, that they likely do not really care. If they only knew!

Were being milked dry. That is the feeling I have.
Mayan Calendar and 2012-
From the love of power to the power of Love -
[link to 2012portal.myfeedportal.com]
Anonymous Coward
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12/12/2012 03:37 PM
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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Hyperinflation is coming to every country.

The only ones that will stave off the MASSIVE hyperinflation are those with plenty of gold. Like Germany and China.

Fiscal Cliff = Non-Scary Way To Say HYPERINFLATION


I fucking hate that buzz word.

Call it what it is!!! HYPERINFLATION!!
tandym

User ID: 1667343
United States
12/12/2012 03:39 PM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Most people don't understand what the Baltic Dry means. But it means that ships that carry furniture and washer machines and the like are decreasing in its volume. Plus, most of all, it means that there is less food and wheat and corn and food in these shipping containers, which means that food will run out faster and is not being stored, it think!! Let me get back to you on this, as more investigation is needed!!

Actually this is a very scary occurence; as we will have less food stored for famines and wars and all kinds of things. I would strongly advise you to get to know your Lord and Saviour soon!!
 Quoting: moses767


This has been happening in the Ports off of China for a long time now. :-(
tandym

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12/12/2012 03:44 PM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Basel III Liquidity Requirements are as of yet undefined.

Guess we will have to keep a close eye on commodities markets in the coming months to see what is being bought up super cheap/quick in large quantities.

:-(

Last Edited by tandym on 12/12/2012 03:44 PM
Mrgravyard

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12/12/2012 03:49 PM
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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
Between this and the Eu banking stuff it doesnt look good.
Anyone have an idea of WHEN this happens. 3 months? 6 Months? 1 year?
2012Portal (OP)
2012Portal - The Mayan Calendar

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12/12/2012 03:52 PM

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Re: BREAKING - Baltic Dry Plunges By Over 8% Overnight, Most Since 2008
related - markets do an about-face and turn red and still falling:
[link to www.marketwatch.com]

The Fed talked and for the first time made an announcement about the goal for where the unemployment rate should be, for when they will raise rates. See:

[link to www.marketwatch.com]
Mayan Calendar and 2012-
From the love of power to the power of Love -
[link to 2012portal.myfeedportal.com]

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