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Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...

 
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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12/13/2012 08:51 PM

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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
Here is a question that rolls around in my head. Having read all this my thought is what will IRA's and 401K's look like? As I recall, 2008 they were referring to the retirement losses as the lost decade. Basically everyone was where they were 10 years ago. In my opinion I do not believe even half of invested money is there, gone, poof! So is this the way that Wall St can cover the true losses because if the dollar really starts to be devalued, people are going to start tapping into their 401K's, even willing to pay the penalties.

I hope I am making sense
 Quoting: Corn Dog


The simple answer is 401k's and IRA's and other retirement vehicles will be cut by whatever percentage they decide to devalue then re-value the currency.

But the government has had their greedy eyes on 401k's and IRA's for a long time now, and with the baby boomers coming of age, they will move on them sooner rather than later.

Countries like Ireland and France have nationalized private retirement accounts and pensions (for the good of the people you know!).

There has been talk about full nationalization, forcing them to invest in U.S. Treasuries, but the short answer on all of that is that it is still up in the air.

However, I guarantee you this, when there is another major crisis, and 401k's and IRA's begin to lose value dramatically, the government will step in under the auspices that they are going to save everyone's retirement!!!

That's when you know your fucked...
 Quoting: Saddletramp
I heard a report a month ago about Obama suggesting a nationalized plan. It was on the idea that workers would have a percentage go directly to the government plan. Wow, as I type this it sounds like social security... been there, done that and that is broke also. But I think this would be the way for the gov't to gain control of all retirement plans.

As for the re-valuing of the currency I don't even know how they could get an accurate 'value'.

*We don't rent pigs.... best book, admire McCrea
 Quoting: Corn Dog


If I had a prize I would give it to you for recognizing the Lonesome Dove qoute in my tag lines!!!

Good catch sir!!!
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 812002
United States
12/13/2012 09:00 PM

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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
Here is a question that rolls around in my head. Having read all this my thought is what will IRA's and 401K's look like? As I recall, 2008 they were referring to the retirement losses as the lost decade. Basically everyone was where they were 10 years ago. In my opinion I do not believe even half of invested money is there, gone, poof! So is this the way that Wall St can cover the true losses because if the dollar really starts to be devalued, people are going to start tapping into their 401K's, even willing to pay the penalties.

I hope I am making sense
 Quoting: Corn Dog


The simple answer is 401k's and IRA's and other retirement vehicles will be cut by whatever percentage they decide to devalue then re-value the currency.

But the government has had their greedy eyes on 401k's and IRA's for a long time now, and with the baby boomers coming of age, they will move on them sooner rather than later.

Countries like Ireland and France have nationalized private retirement accounts and pensions (for the good of the people you know!).

There has been talk about full nationalization, forcing them to invest in U.S. Treasuries, but the short answer on all of that is that it is still up in the air.

However, I guarantee you this, when there is another major crisis, and 401k's and IRA's begin to lose value dramatically, the government will step in under the auspices that they are going to save everyone's retirement!!!

That's when you know your fucked...
 Quoting: Saddletramp
I heard a report a month ago about Obama suggesting a nationalized plan. It was on the idea that workers would have a percentage go directly to the government plan. Wow, as I type this it sounds like social security... been there, done that and that is broke also. But I think this would be the way for the gov't to gain control of all retirement plans.

As for the re-valuing of the currency I don't even know how they could get an accurate 'value'.

*We don't rent pigs.... best book, admire McCrea
 Quoting: Corn Dog


On Re-Valuing the currency, this is why I think they will have to have the hyperinflationary crisis before they move on the devaluation then revaluation of currencies world wide, because this is going to a take a monumental agreement on how much currency each country or union that backs their currency with liquid commodites can print! And that will take a crisis of epic proportions to get that kind of agreement out of everyone. But our system is set up for a huge crisis, no doubt there.

And if the price of the commodities in your currencies particular basket of commodities goes up exponentially...what then?!?!? Are you allowed to print more currency to keep the value of your currency static?!?!?

It will take all the currencies being pegged together (essentially a world-wide currency with different pictures on the front) and it will take a world-wide regulatory agency to enforce the rules...just what they want in both cases!

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 12/13/2012 09:02 PM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
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12/13/2012 09:08 PM
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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
wait till those EBT cards buy very little, then we'll see some fireworks....
Anonymous Coward
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12/13/2012 09:11 PM
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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
When the EU banks all consoladate into one Frankenstien monster, they will be in control. When they start to raise rates, Benny will have to follow. That could very well be the straw that breaks the camels back. If you are not already prepped, you have a very short window to get that way. If you are not prepared, you might as well stand out on the curb and wait for the FEMA bus.
 Quoting: Epic Beard Guy


Will FEMA CAMP have organic soap? I have sensitive skin.
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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12/13/2012 09:12 PM

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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
wait till those EBT cards buy very little, then we'll see some fireworks....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28870983


What those people don't understand is this, that EBT card is cheaper than slavery to the TPTB...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 812002
United States
12/13/2012 09:13 PM

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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
When the EU banks all consoladate into one Frankenstien monster, they will be in control. When they start to raise rates, Benny will have to follow. That could very well be the straw that breaks the camels back. If you are not already prepped, you have a very short window to get that way. If you are not prepared, you might as well stand out on the curb and wait for the FEMA bus.
 Quoting: Epic Beard Guy


Will FEMA CAMP have organic soap? I have sensitive skin.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8668963


I'm sure they will have a special request form for that...

Ask some Sandy victims around here, some of them saw the inside of those camps, see what they thought of it...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
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12/13/2012 09:22 PM
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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
Are Central Banks Really Planning To Raise Interest Rates?

[link to www.marketwatch.com]

Here's the skinny on this...

Any signigicant rise in effective interest rates by central banks will cause an instant market crash that will make 2008 look like a cake walk.

You see the Fed and other Central Banks have put themselves in a catch 22, we've been in a chronically low interest rate environment with almost non-existant economic growth for so long it is killing any market bumping lifespan for Quantative Easing Announcements, thereby reducing the power of Central Banks over monetary and economic conditions, and it's having a real dampening effect on fixed income people, and therefore the economy as a whole. But here's the Catch 22, if they raise interest rates, the markets instantly crash. This is all just another sign the economic/debt cycle is almost near its end.

The Fed's tool box is virtually empty now, except for The Nuclear Option, but that is not uncommon at the end of an economic cycle. Bernanke knows where he's at here, he's not stupid despite the role he plays on TV, he's just working within the system as it has been designed, but there are some differences between this cycle and the cycle that preceeded the Great Depression. World population and the sheer amount of debt and currency in the system come springing to mind, but also one of the things they did during the Great Depression was basically tax every man woman and child holding gold backed paper currency 40% overnight by increasing the value of the gold used to back that currency, or devaluing the currency.

But in the current cycle we are dealing with entirely fiat currencies, So Here Is The Nuclear Option, they only way they will be able to pull a version of the same stunt they pulled in the Great Depression is by de-valuing the currency everyone is holding after a hyperinlationary event (which is not growth but rather a loss of confidence in the currency) and then returning backing to said currency with a basket of commodities approach specific to each currency/country but also pegging all backed currencies together, and also taking much of the old currency out of circulation in the process (this will be true for both paper and electronic currency).

In other words, when they return backing to the currency, you will either have your bank accounts (electronic credits and debits) cut by a percentage with a keystroke on a computer, or you will have to bring in any actual paper currency you're holding and exchange it for the new backed currency, at a percentage deduction of course (just as an example, $200 old for $100 new). This will also apply to loans - loan principal will be cut by a percentage (including sovereign debt). But make no mistake, the commodities backing the currency will skyrocket in value, and the elite already own 90% of those commodities around the world, so they will gain despite any reduction in the value of the currency they currently hold.

This Keynesian Econimic system we find ourselves with has always been designed to funnel money from the bottom to the top, then have it trickle back down to the bottom (after a percentage is retained by the top of course), but the Trickle Down effect has been broken through repealing the Glass-Steagall act, Accounting Regulations, and outright greed that have essentially stopped the banks from loaning out money to consumers or small business'. And make no mistake, the breaking of that system has been quite intentional. These guys are not stupid, they recognize where we are in the bigger scheme of cyclical Keynesian Economics and, world cycles such as population, energy, and food, and they would rather break it themselves, then rebuild it, than lose control entirely, though they will certainly appear too...

Don't be fooled, remember, Ordo ab chao, no matter how much chaos you see unfolding around the world when this finally happens, it is all part of the bigger plan...the plan to soak you for half of your net worth overnight!

Not saying we are at this point yet, but if you're not ready for this, you might want to consider getting ready for this...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


I regret to inform you that OP is right
Anonymous Coward
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12/13/2012 09:33 PM
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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
"EBT card is cheaper than slavery"? How do you figure that because with the slaves you actually got some fucking work done!
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 812002
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12/13/2012 09:48 PM

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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
"EBT card is cheaper than slavery"? How do you figure that because with the slaves you actually got some fucking work done!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29790603


You don't think they are working for TPTB...they are driving a political agenda, voting a certain way (the way they are told too) and they are providing an impetus for soaking the upper middle-class, plus it's all this spending on them that is one of the reasons they have us right where they want us.
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Marxist

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New Zealand
12/13/2012 09:49 PM
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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
...


And look at what a wonderful effect QE4 had on the markets...

Central Banks are losing relevance, you might want to read my entire post...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


QE4 is just getting started.....


QE4

by Larry Levin

"The Chairman of the Federal Reserve, Ben Bernanke, held a 2 day meeting with FOMC members and made an announcement:
QE4 is not only here, it is here to stay – essentially FOREVER."

[link to avidinvestorgroup.com]

heliben
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


Yes, and all the markets that should have gone up on that announcement, have instead gone down.

Central banks are losing their power to manipulate the markets through monetary policy because of the chronically low interest rate environment corner they have painted themselves into.

This happens at the end of debt/economic cycles...and we are very near the end of this one.
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Markets go up on QE4?
....not necessarily. naughty

People are pulling cash out of the equity markets before the end of the year to avoid the Fiscal Cliff taxes.
Watch that money go overseas or into precious metals.
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


Those who understand the necessity of cheap liquidity in consumer, infinite growth global capitalism will quietly be investing as we are on the brink of debt on steroids and massive expansion of sweatshop underpinned accumulation. Those who of course still dwell in the archaic towers of the mercantile age will of course be panicking. Invariably small investors and businesses with a minimal place in the wealth consolidation that is taking place.

Debt will eventually crush the potential for ongoing accumulation but not whilst we have billions of would be consumers waiting in the wings.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 812002
United States
12/13/2012 09:54 PM

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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
...


QE4 is just getting started.....


QE4

by Larry Levin

"The Chairman of the Federal Reserve, Ben Bernanke, held a 2 day meeting with FOMC members and made an announcement:
QE4 is not only here, it is here to stay – essentially FOREVER."

[link to avidinvestorgroup.com]

heliben
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


Yes, and all the markets that should have gone up on that announcement, have instead gone down.

Central banks are losing their power to manipulate the markets through monetary policy because of the chronically low interest rate environment corner they have painted themselves into.

This happens at the end of debt/economic cycles...and we are very near the end of this one.
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Markets go up on QE4?
....not necessarily. naughty

People are pulling cash out of the equity markets before the end of the year to avoid the Fiscal Cliff taxes.
Watch that money go overseas or into precious metals.
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


Those who understand the necessity of cheap liquidity in consumer, infinite growth global capitalism will quietly be investing as we are on the brink of debt on steroids and massive expansion of sweatshop underpinned accumulation. Those who of course still dwell in the archaic towers of the mercantile age will of course be panicking. Invariably small investors and businesses with a minimal place in the wealth consolidation that is taking place.

Debt will eventually crush the potential for ongoing accumulation but not whilst we have billions of would be consumers waiting in the wings.
 Quoting: Marxist


As usual Marxist, you have Capitalism confused with Keynesiansm...

We're hell and gone from Capitalism...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
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12/13/2012 10:03 PM
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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
It's hardly worth putting $$ in a savings account or CD
which are currently earning only a fraction of one percent.

I've never seen interest rates this low in my lifetime.
Marxist

User ID: 12069645
New Zealand
12/13/2012 10:20 PM
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...


Yes, and all the markets that should have gone up on that announcement, have instead gone down.

Central banks are losing their power to manipulate the markets through monetary policy because of the chronically low interest rate environment corner they have painted themselves into.

This happens at the end of debt/economic cycles...and we are very near the end of this one.
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Markets go up on QE4?
....not necessarily. naughty

People are pulling cash out of the equity markets before the end of the year to avoid the Fiscal Cliff taxes.
Watch that money go overseas or into precious metals.
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


Those who understand the necessity of cheap liquidity in consumer, infinite growth global capitalism will quietly be investing as we are on the brink of debt on steroids and massive expansion of sweatshop underpinned accumulation. Those who of course still dwell in the archaic towers of the mercantile age will of course be panicking. Invariably small investors and businesses with a minimal place in the wealth consolidation that is taking place.

Debt will eventually crush the potential for ongoing accumulation but not whilst we have billions of would be consumers waiting in the wings.
 Quoting: Marxist


As usual Marxist, you have Capitalism confused with Keynesiansm...

We're hell and gone from Capitalism...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Keynesianism is a variant of capitalism. In a nutshell, capitalism is the expansion of capital and the accumulative process all over the globe. It is an objective process with a variety of mechanisms by which it ensures that accumulation and consolidation is facilitated...either deregulatory as well as interventionist...depending on the state of growth and at what point in that cycle capital is.

When growth is driven by the right kind of inflationary tendencies, capital demands deregulation as a part of the process of consolidation. When growth is undermined by the wrong kind of inflation, capital resorts to interventionism (access to the socialised purse...a function of civilised living) in order to protect consolidation.

It is that simple. Why do you think I resorted to the most capitalistic of occupations to earn my crust...day trading. Read Karl Marx and you will become knowledgeable of this form of social economy and learn a thing or two.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Corn Dog

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12/13/2012 10:34 PM

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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
Those who understand the necessity of cheap liquidity in consumer, infinite growth global capitalism will quietly be investing as we are on the brink of debt on steroids and massive expansion of sweatshop underpinned accumulation. Those who of course still dwell in the archaic towers of the mercantile age will of course be panicking. Invariably small investors and businesses with a minimal place in the wealth consolidation that is taking place.

Debt will eventually crush the potential for ongoing accumulation but not whilst we have billions of would be consumers waiting in the wings.
 Quoting: Marxist
Why when I read that did the image of welfare recipients pop into my head? I pictured them rushing out to buy a couple extra big screens because they were panicked.

Actually what you said does make sense, I do believe that if every single person lived within their means and stopped living materialistically for a few years, the crash probably wouldn't be as hard. But billions of consumers are not ready to stop accumulating.

I also believe that the EBT card people will be rioting in the streets. I do believe the breakdown will come from the poor. They maybe the voting block but it will take marshal law to get them compliant- TPTB have yet to completely break that class yet.
Marxist

User ID: 12069645
New Zealand
12/13/2012 10:43 PM
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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
Those who understand the necessity of cheap liquidity in consumer, infinite growth global capitalism will quietly be investing as we are on the brink of debt on steroids and massive expansion of sweatshop underpinned accumulation. Those who of course still dwell in the archaic towers of the mercantile age will of course be panicking. Invariably small investors and businesses with a minimal place in the wealth consolidation that is taking place.

Debt will eventually crush the potential for ongoing accumulation but not whilst we have billions of would be consumers waiting in the wings.
 Quoting: Marxist
Why when I read that did the image of welfare recipients pop into my head? I pictured them rushing out to buy a couple extra big screens because they were panicked.

Actually what you said does make sense, I do believe that if every single person lived within their means and stopped living materialistically for a few years, the crash probably wouldn't be as hard. But billions of consumers are not ready to stop accumulating.

I also believe that the EBT card people will be rioting in the streets. I do believe the breakdown will come from the poor. They maybe the voting block but it will take marshal law to get them compliant- TPTB have yet to completely break that class yet.
 Quoting: Corn Dog


The process of accumulation is what the capitalist does...whereby he takes for example $10 and transforms it into $15 by ANY AND ALL MEANS necessary. Accumulation is as objective as breathing. It is the oil that powers the globalising process. Capitalists are in effect grown up mercantilists...the corner store shopkeeper who now trades everywhere in search of growth. To suggest that he will agree to an austere consumer in pursuit of a cap to infinite growth is as absurd as suggesting that a man will marry a woman to live the life of a celibate.

Take the emotion out of understanding capitalism and you begin to understand why the world economy is in this phase of its globalising process.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 812002
United States
12/13/2012 10:43 PM

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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
...


Markets go up on QE4?
....not necessarily. naughty

People are pulling cash out of the equity markets before the end of the year to avoid the Fiscal Cliff taxes.
Watch that money go overseas or into precious metals.
 Quoting: Burt Gummer


Those who understand the necessity of cheap liquidity in consumer, infinite growth global capitalism will quietly be investing as we are on the brink of debt on steroids and massive expansion of sweatshop underpinned accumulation. Those who of course still dwell in the archaic towers of the mercantile age will of course be panicking. Invariably small investors and businesses with a minimal place in the wealth consolidation that is taking place.

Debt will eventually crush the potential for ongoing accumulation but not whilst we have billions of would be consumers waiting in the wings.
 Quoting: Marxist


As usual Marxist, you have Capitalism confused with Keynesiansm...

We're hell and gone from Capitalism...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Keynesianism is a variant of capitalism. In a nutshell, capitalism is the expansion of capital and the accumulative process all over the globe. It is an objective process with a variety of mechanisms by which it ensures that accumulation and consolidation is facilitated...either deregulatory as well as interventionist...depending on the state of growth and at what point in that cycle capital is.

When growth is driven by the right kind of inflationary tendencies, capital demands deregulation as a part of the process of consolidation. When growth is undermined by the wrong kind of inflation, capital resorts to interventionism (access to the socialised purse...a function of civilised living) in order to protect consolidation.

It is that simple. Why do you think I resorted to the most capitalistic of occupations to earn my crust...day trading. Read Karl Marx and you will become knowledgeable of this form of social economy and learn a thing or two.
 Quoting: Marxist


Keynesianism is a monetary/economic system that transcends Capitalism or Commmunism, it is a monetary/economic system that encompasses the world at this point in time, regardless of political or economic models. Capitalism can exist just fine without Keynesianism, it can function quite well in an Austrian Monetary system. Keynesianism on the other hand cannot exist without some variant of Capitalism within the overiding economic model.

And I disagree that what America has today is true Capitalism, more of a pseudo-fascist model. Most systems today have intigrated parts of other systems that seem useful to TPTB...look at China as an example of this...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 12/13/2012 10:52 PM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Marxist

User ID: 12069645
New Zealand
12/13/2012 10:56 PM
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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
...


Those who understand the necessity of cheap liquidity in consumer, infinite growth global capitalism will quietly be investing as we are on the brink of debt on steroids and massive expansion of sweatshop underpinned accumulation. Those who of course still dwell in the archaic towers of the mercantile age will of course be panicking. Invariably small investors and businesses with a minimal place in the wealth consolidation that is taking place.

Debt will eventually crush the potential for ongoing accumulation but not whilst we have billions of would be consumers waiting in the wings.
 Quoting: Marxist


As usual Marxist, you have Capitalism confused with Keynesiansm...

We're hell and gone from Capitalism...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Keynesianism is a variant of capitalism. In a nutshell, capitalism is the expansion of capital and the accumulative process all over the globe. It is an objective process with a variety of mechanisms by which it ensures that accumulation and consolidation is facilitated...either deregulatory as well as interventionist...depending on the state of growth and at what point in that cycle capital is.

When growth is driven by the right kind of inflationary tendencies, capital demands deregulation as a part of the process of consolidation. When growth is undermined by the wrong kind of inflation, capital resorts to interventionism (access to the socialised purse...a function of civilised living) in order to protect consolidation.

It is that simple. Why do you think I resorted to the most capitalistic of occupations to earn my crust...day trading. Read Karl Marx and you will become knowledgeable of this form of social economy and learn a thing or two.
 Quoting: Marxist


Keynesianism is a monetary/economic system that transcends Capitalism or Commmunism, it is a monetary/economic system that encompasses the world at this point in time, regardless of political or economic models

And I disagree that what America has today is true Capitalism, more of a pseudo-fascist model. Most systems today have intigrated parts of other systems that seem useful to TPTB...look at China as an example of this...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Let me simplify things. Capitalism is after all, a human system for humans.

Once upon a time there was a small businessman who earned his living by selling locally and who had no need for Chinese laboour. Then his business grew and expanded to the point where he need to minimise labour costs in order to preserve his competitive edge. Of course, he outsourced to China and immeduately had a Pauline conversion to globalism. He was also powerful enough to understand his dependence on this bizarre marriage between the centralised sweatshop that is China and himself. In addition, he saw the need to ensure that those how purchased his Chinese widgets were always flush enough to buy his goods.

Of course, he flirted with both the deregulationists who ensured that the shopping classes made minimal demands of the fiscal purse when jobs were aplenty as well as the interventionists who preserved the need to keep the shopping classes flush with social subsidies when jobs were scarce.

He had a preference for deregulation. But above all, he was a practical man and was very mindful of the need to ensure that his shops were always full, political preferences aside.

That is basically what drives owners of globalised capital.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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United States
12/13/2012 11:01 PM

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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...


Considering what Bernanke is now doing with the permanent QE4....it's not going to happen anytime in the near future.


And look at what a wonderful effect QE4 had on the markets...

Central Banks are losing relevance, you might want to read my entire post...


QE4 is just getting started.....


QE4

by Larry Levin

"The Chairman of the Federal Reserve, Ben Bernanke, held a 2 day meeting with FOMC members and made an announcement:
QE4 is not only here, it is here to stay – essentially FOREVER."

[link to avidinvestorgroup.com]

heliben


Yes, and all the markets that should have gone up on that announcement, have instead gone down.

Central banks are losing their power to manipulate the markets through monetary policy because of the chronically low interest rate environment corner they have painted themselves into.

This happens at the end of debt/economic cycles...and we are very near the end of this one.


Markets go up on QE4?
....not necessarily. naughty

People are pulling cash out of the equity markets before the end of the year to avoid the Fiscal Cliff taxes.
Watch that money go overseas or into precious metals.


Those who understand the necessity of cheap liquidity in consumer, infinite growth global capitalism will quietly be investing as we are on the brink of debt on steroids and massive expansion of sweatshop underpinned accumulation. Those who of course still dwell in the archaic towers of the mercantile age will of course be panicking. Invariably small investors and businesses with a minimal place in the wealth consolidation that is taking place.

Debt will eventually crush the potential for ongoing accumulation but not whilst we have billions of would be consumers waiting in the wings.


As usual Marxist, you have Capitalism confused with Keynesiansm...

We're hell and gone from Capitalism...


Keynesianism is a variant of capitalism. In a nutshell, capitalism is the expansion of capital and the accumulative process all over the globe. It is an objective process with a variety of mechanisms by which it ensures that accumulation and consolidation is facilitated...either deregulatory as well as interventionist...depending on the state of growth and at what point in that cycle capital is.

When growth is driven by the right kind of inflationary tendencies, capital demands deregulation as a part of the process of consolidation. When growth is undermined by the wrong kind of inflation, capital resorts to interventionism (access to the socialised purse...a function of civilised living) in order to protect consolidation.

It is that simple. Why do you think I resorted to the most capitalistic of occupations to earn my crust...day trading. Read Karl Marx and you will become knowledgeable of this form of social economy and learn a thing or two.


Keynesianism is a monetary/economic system that transcends Capitalism or Commmunism, it is a monetary/economic system that encompasses the world at this point in time, regardless of political or economic models

And I disagree that what America has today is true Capitalism, more of a pseudo-fascist model. Most systems today have intigrated parts of other systems that seem useful to TPTB...look at China as an example of this...


Let me simplify things. Capitalism is after all, a human system for humans.

Once upon a time there was a small businessman who earned his living by selling locally and who had no need for Chinese laboour. Then his business grew and expanded to the point where he need to minimise labour costs in order to preserve his competitive edge. Of course, he outsourced to China and immeduately had a Pauline conversion to globalism. He was also powerful enough to understand his dependence on this bizarre marriage between the centralised sweatshop that is China and himself. In addition, he saw the need to ensure that those how purchased his Chinese widgets were always flush enough to buy his goods.

Of course, he flirted with both the deregulationists who ensured that the shopping classes made minimal demands of the fiscal purse when jobs were aplenty as well as the interventionists who preserved the need to keep the shopping classes flush with social subsidies when jobs were scarce.

He had a preference for deregulation. But above all, he was a practical man and was very mindful of the need to ensure that his shops were always full, political preferences aside.

That is basically what drives owners of globalised capital.


See, I would argue that once again you are describing Keynesianism, but of course that is the system of the world today, and they do call it Capitalism on the MSM, of course I think you could agree it is a bastardized form of Capitalism.

They've even intigrated Keynesiansim with Austrian Monetary systems to some extent. This very post is about that intrigration and how they will use it to their advantage.

All systems are blending, and blurring the lines.

But I would still argue that a true Capitalistic Economic system with an Austrian Monetary system and a Constitutional Republic form of government is the best and most egalitarian system ever devised, alas, we had it...then Rockefeller stole it.

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 12/13/2012 11:10 PM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Marxist

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12/13/2012 11:09 PM
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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
I can understand your preference for the old mercantilism of nation states SD. Globalism confounds our notions of who we are, even I who long for the certainties of yesteryear.

However, marcantilist businesses all carry the seeds for capitalist maturation depending on how good the business owner is and therein lies the paradox of being the one today and the other tomorrow.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 812002
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12/13/2012 11:19 PM

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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
I can understand your preference for the old mercantilism of nation states SD. Globalism confounds our notions of who we are, even I who long for the certainties of yesteryear.

However, marcantilist businesses all carry the seeds for capitalist maturation depending on how good the business owner is and therein lies the paradox of being the one today and the other tomorrow.
 Quoting: Marxist


I would agree that, Globalism has changed everything, and there is no going back...

But I do think we should continue to fight to regain control of our government from corporate interests, I think we should always demand responsibility from our elected representatives, whether we actually had any say in electing them or not. I think we should strive for rugged individualism over blind conformity, I think we should strive for economic fairness...

Knowing all the while that I am drifting further and further away from the mainstream in this world...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Marxist

User ID: 12069645
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12/13/2012 11:28 PM
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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
I can understand your preference for the old mercantilism of nation states SD. Globalism confounds our notions of who we are, even I who long for the certainties of yesteryear.

However, marcantilist businesses all carry the seeds for capitalist maturation depending on how good the business owner is and therein lies the paradox of being the one today and the other tomorrow.
 Quoting: Marxist


I would agree that, Globalism has changed everything, and there is no going back...

But I do think we should continue to fight to regain control of our government from corporate interests, I think we should always demand responsibility from our elected representatives, whether we actually had any say in electing them or not. I think we should strive for rugged individualism over blind conformity, I think we should strive for economic fairness...

Knowing all the while that I am drifting further and further away from the mainstream in this world...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


The problem with that is that no sooner does someone have enough money to enter the capitalist dynamic or be engaged in managing it, they abandon the old ways.

I for myself, I live a simple life and keep myself to myself. I have seen so many blood curdling nationalists do a U turn at the prospect of making a fast buck in China that I can't be bothered any longer. I earn a good living, try and get people to look at the system in a clear way and maybe one day, we can make something that is humane and is not constantly in turmoil.
Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!
Saddletramp (OP)
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 812002
United States
12/13/2012 11:44 PM

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Re: Are Central Banks Really Thinking Of Raising Interest Rates, If So, This Will Be A SHTF Signal...
I can understand your preference for the old mercantilism of nation states SD. Globalism confounds our notions of who we are, even I who long for the certainties of yesteryear.

However, marcantilist businesses all carry the seeds for capitalist maturation depending on how good the business owner is and therein lies the paradox of being the one today and the other tomorrow.
 Quoting: Marxist


I would agree that, Globalism has changed everything, and there is no going back...

But I do think we should continue to fight to regain control of our government from corporate interests, I think we should always demand responsibility from our elected representatives, whether we actually had any say in electing them or not. I think we should strive for rugged individualism over blind conformity, I think we should strive for economic fairness...

Knowing all the while that I am drifting further and further away from the mainstream in this world...
 Quoting: Saddletramp


The problem with that is that no sooner does someone have enough money to enter the capitalist dynamic or be engaged in managing it, they abandon the old ways.

I for myself, I live a simple life and keep myself to myself. I have seen so many blood curdling nationalists do a U turn at the prospect of making a fast buck in China that I can't be bothered any longer. I earn a good living, try and get people to look at the system in a clear way and maybe one day, we can make something that is humane and is not constantly in turmoil.
 Quoting: Marxist


Well there's no taking humans out of the equation in government, so whatever system we finally end up with (most likely the Singapore Model of Communistic Government with a Pseudo-Fascistic economy) will be corrupt beyond belief. This has been true from the advent and/or evolution of every system man has invented, and as long as people are running the show, it will continue to be true...
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."

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